CanPol Megathread: Big Changus

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > CanPol Megathread: Big Changus

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

Lobok posted:

Worse for who, though? I don't know if an apples to apples comparison can really be done but I'm not totally convinced that highway driving is that much more dangerous considering our pedestrian and cyclist death tallies every year in the city. Driving on a 100 km/h road with no pedestrians is restricted in one part of graduated licensing but driving in the city with plenty of people to hit at totally legal and just-as-lethal speeds of 50-60 km/h is allowed.

Also, driving on a highway in good weather is easier and safer than driving anywhere in bad weather.

It's ridiculous that you can pass your road test in the middle of summer during daylight, and yet your license will let you drive through a snowstorm in the middle of the night. That's loving stupid. The fact that we don't make drivers demonstrate competence at night and inclement weather driving before allowing them to do it unsupervised is insane.

I should also point out that a significant difference between pilot licensing and car licensing is that you have to demonstrate an ability to react to abnormal and emergency situations, and demonstrate a practical ability to plan and execute navigation. I can't send a student solo until I'm confident they can reasonably recognize and react to any emergency situation they might encounter, much less actually send them for a flight test.

PT6A fucked around with this message at 00:29 on Feb 2, 2019

# ? Feb 2, 2019 00:24

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# ? May 31, 2024 22:10

RBC: Nov 23, 2007; IM STILL SPENDING MONEY FROM 1888

Wilhelm posted:

Why would anyone stuck living in thunder bay have any incentive to ever care about anything let alone something as complex as this

isn't the issue bombardier is outsourcing a bunch of work to a plant in mexico where its put on a backburner because the mexican plant doesnt give a gently caress about making some random parts across the continent while they have a bunch of local orders to fill

# ? Feb 2, 2019 00:31

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

RBC posted:

isn't the issue bombardier is outsourcing a bunch of work to a plant in mexico where its put on a backburner because the mexican plant doesnt give a gently caress about making some random parts across the continent while they have a bunch of local orders to fill

The issue is that Bombardier is managed by idiots at every level. Lots of companies outsource lots of manufacturing, but crucially they have procedures in place to make sure the work is done properly and on-schedule. Bombardier's failure to do this rests solely on the management of the outsourcing, not the people to whom they've outsourced the work.

# ? Feb 2, 2019 00:33

TrueChaos: Nov 14, 2006

Lobok posted:

Worse for who, though? I don't know if an apples to apples comparison can really be done but I'm not totally convinced that highway driving is that much more dangerous considering our pedestrian and cyclist death tallies every year in the city. Driving on a 100 km/h road with no pedestrians is restricted in one part of graduated licensing but driving in the city with plenty of people to hit at totally legal and just-as-lethal speeds of 50-60 km/h is allowed.

You have a lot more time to react to something at 50-60km/h than 100km/h. In terms of worse, it's certainly worse between vehicles on the highway. Pedestrian safety is another matter all together - I'd be curious to know if there's any statistics available on driver experience in driver vs pedestrian collisions, my googling doesn't turn much up. Restricting novice drivers from highways (and night time!) was done based on evidence of increased risk.

How do you train drivers if they're restricted from driving in the city? I'm all for going immediately to a full license without restrictions if there were adequate training requirements in place, but all you need right now to get a G1 is a written test. And, it's not like passing a G or G2 road test is any indication that a person can drive at all, a pair of semi competent monkeys working the controls in tandem could pass.

# ? Feb 2, 2019 00:34

McGavin: Sep 18, 2012

James Baud posted:

Haha. BC still onboard. 54° 40' or fight!

Manitoba wants to be like Saskatchewan, but Saskatchewan is all "ugh, gross!"

# ? Feb 2, 2019 00:43

Juul-Whip: Mar 10, 2008

so can we stop calling AB, SK and MB "western canada" now

it's clearly "the prairies"

# ? Feb 2, 2019 00:51

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

It looks like the true western alienation is bc feeling nothing in common with other provinces.

# ? Feb 2, 2019 00:55

Coxswain Balls: Jun 4, 2001

Nobody loves Idaho.

# ? Feb 2, 2019 00:58

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

Coxswain Balls posted:

Nobody loves Idaho.

From my personal experience Idaho Man is basically like Florida Man but you never hear about his shenanigans because he lives in a survivalist shack deep in the woods.

# ? Feb 2, 2019 01:00

Juul-Whip: Mar 10, 2008

Coxswain Balls posted:

Nobody loves Idaho.

nor Oregon nor Alaska apparently

# ? Feb 2, 2019 01:03

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

THC posted:

nor Oregon nor Alaska apparently

Nor any of the territories.

# ? Feb 2, 2019 01:06

The Cheshire Cat: Jun 10, 2008; Fun Shoe

Or Quebec, but that's probably fine because they don't like anyone else, either.

# ? Feb 2, 2019 01:23

Sage Grimm: Feb 18, 2013; Let's go explorin' little dude!

Coxswain Balls posted:

Nobody loves Idaho.

Idawho?

# ? Feb 2, 2019 01:44

cowofwar: Jul 30, 2002; by Athanatos

Baronjutter posted:

It looks like the true western alienation is bc feeling nothing in common with other provinces.

Makes sense since BC is not even part of the original north american plate. The whole province is volcanic island accretion against the plate.

# ? Feb 2, 2019 02:41

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

The Cheshire Cat posted:

Or Quebec, but that's probably fine because they don't like anyone else, either.

Counterpoint: they share a great deal with Alberta in that they are petulant, delusional, frequently racist, and have industries that need constant propping up from the federal government. If it weren't for the language thing we'd be two peas in a pod :v:

# ? Feb 2, 2019 02:42

xtal: Jan 9, 2011; by Fluffdaddy

Toronto police officer to be charged with professional misconduct in connection with Bruce McArthur investigation

# ? Feb 2, 2019 02:53

EoRaptor: Sep 13, 2003; by Fluffdaddy

PT6A posted:

Also, driving on a highway in good weather is easier and safer than driving anywhere in bad weather.

It's ridiculous that you can pass your road test in the middle of summer during daylight, and yet your license will let you drive through a snowstorm in the middle of the night. That's loving stupid. The fact that we don't make drivers demonstrate competence at night and inclement weather driving before allowing them to do it unsupervised is insane.

Especially when we could place very inexpensive simulator(s) at each testing location, and run the student through a series of road conditions, weather types, and traffic situations, to drill them on how to react in a way that will do the least harm to them and others. It needn't be perfectly accurate, it only needs to be good enough to impart and test good reaction habits. It's nonsense that we don't require this as part of a driving school.

# ? Feb 2, 2019 03:39

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; we monitor many frequencies. we listen always. came a voice, out of the babel of tongues, speaking to us. it played us a mighty dub.

xtal posted:

Toronto police officer to be charged with professional misconduct in connection with Bruce McArthur investigation

Huh. That didn't seem likely.

I wonder who he pissed off.

# ? Feb 2, 2019 03:48

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

cowofwar posted:

Makes sense since BC is not even part of the original north american plate. The whole province is volcanic island accretion against the plate.

BC geology is cool as hell. We're just a big bulldozer that drove around the world scooping up random poo poo as it tumbled end over end mixing together. You look at a geologic map of a normal bit of continent and it's nice logical blobs of rock types, you look at BC and its like those old maps of the Holy Roman Empire.

# ? Feb 2, 2019 03:49

vyelkin: Jan 2, 2011

Was Texas not an option for Albertans in this poll?

# ? Feb 2, 2019 05:30

Hexigrammus: May 22, 2006; Cheech Wizard stories are clean, wholesome, reflective truths that go great with the marijuana munchies and a blow job.

Baronjutter posted:

BC geology is cool as hell. We're just a big bulldozer that drove around the world scooping up random poo poo as it tumbled end over end mixing together. You look at a geologic map of a normal bit of continent and it's nice logical blobs of rock types, you look at BC and its like those old maps of the Holy Roman Empire.

I've been lucky enough to spend time on Alder Island in Haida Gwaii. It's described as a geologic stew and is weird even for B.C. You spend your time running around the beach from rock to rock yelling "WTF??"

# ? Feb 2, 2019 06:20

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

vyelkin posted:

Was Texas not an option for Albertans in this poll?

We're much more similar to Montana than Texas. We lack the good barbecue and Tex-Mex to be properly Texan.

# ? Feb 2, 2019 13:08

ghosthorse: Dec 15, 2011; ...you forget so easily...

Powershift posted:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-health-system-efficiency-act-1.5000546

lmfao.

Worked for Alberta

https://www.macleans.ca/politics/health-care-superboard-is-superbad-in-alberta/

It went so poorly in Alberta, it was the PC government who decided to go back to the old system before the NDP even got elected.

Dougie is smart enough to make it work though.

the only thing that gives me hope for ontario has been that everyone I've heard talk about this, including boomers and even older people, are super pissed at even the idea of it. so I'm sure next election they'll vote the cons in again and be surprised when it happens :smith:

# ? Feb 2, 2019 19:47

The Cheshire Cat: Jun 10, 2008; Fun Shoe

ghosthorse posted:

the only thing that gives me hope for ontario has been that everyone I've heard talk about this, including boomers and even older people, are super pissed at even the idea of it. so I'm sure next election they'll vote the cons in again and be surprised when it happens

Yeah just like how they definitely won't cancel the UBI pilot.

I don't understand the psychology of people who vote for Cons and then expect them not to do the things they're explicitly promising to do that align perfectly with their political goals. Like are they SO cynical that they're using "all politicians are liars" to somehow make the Cons more appealing by assuming they won't make good on all their worst promises?

# ? Feb 2, 2019 22:39

Argas: Jan 13, 2008; SRW Fanatic

The Cheshire Cat posted:

Yeah just like how they definitely won't cancel the UBI pilot.

I don't understand the psychology of people who vote for Cons and then expect them not to do the things they're explicitly promising to do that align perfectly with their political goals. Like are they SO cynical that they're using "all politicians are liars" to somehow make the Cons more appealing by assuming they won't make good on all their worst promises?

Because they can relate to the Cons and think that works both ways so the Cons surely won't hurt them.

# ? Feb 2, 2019 22:50

Lobok: Jul 13, 2006; Say Watt?

The Cheshire Cat posted:

Yeah just like how they definitely won't cancel the UBI pilot.

I don't understand the psychology of people who vote for Cons and then expect them not to do the things they're explicitly promising to do that align perfectly with their political goals. Like are they SO cynical that they're using "all politicians are liars" to somehow make the Cons more appealing by assuming they won't make good on all their worst promises?

A lot of people can't wrap their head around politicians who govern in bad faith, don't have the public's interests at heart, or are in government for the purpose of tearing it down. Terrible policy is just a mistake that the government would correct if only they were shown the error of their ways!

# ? Feb 3, 2019 00:02

Helsing: Aug 23, 2003; DON'T POST IN THE ELECTION THREAD UNLESS YOU JOE BIDEN

You know the deficit is bad when Trudeau has to assassinate his own auditor general just to win reelection.

# ? Feb 3, 2019 00:41

StoicRomance: Jan 3, 2013

Qatar has some new drones! Targeting sensors by Wescam, engines by Bombardier. Love to help out a slave state with some weapons!

https://twitter.com/abdulmoiz1990/status/1091647298579386368

# ? Feb 3, 2019 03:41

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; we monitor many frequencies. we listen always. came a voice, out of the babel of tongues, speaking to us. it played us a mighty dub.

StoicRomance posted:

engines by Bombardier.

Well, we know they won't fly.

Maybe this is actually a good thing?

# ? Feb 3, 2019 03:51

vincentpricesboner: Sep 3, 2006; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

Im really pissed that ford is toying with the idea of getting rid of all day kindergarten.

Who voted for this fat gently caress

# ? Feb 3, 2019 04:30

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; we monitor many frequencies. we listen always. came a voice, out of the babel of tongues, speaking to us. it played us a mighty dub.

All of southern Ontario, outside of Toronto and Hamilton.

# ? Feb 3, 2019 04:33

vyelkin: Jan 2, 2011

The Cheshire Cat posted:

Yeah just like how they definitely won't cancel the UBI pilot.

I don't understand the psychology of people who vote for Cons and then expect them not to do the things they're explicitly promising to do that align perfectly with their political goals. Like are they SO cynical that they're using "all politicians are liars" to somehow make the Cons more appealing by assuming they won't make good on all their worst promises?

There was a good column in the Guardian recently about pretty much this phenomenon.

quote:

So, poorer Brexiters voted to be worse off? There�s nothing wrong in that
Gary Younge
Many working-class leavers were not motivated by self-interest, but by values. Well-off liberals who back tax rises should understand that

In Uncle Tom�s Cabin, there is a moment when Augustine St Clare, who owns Tom, suggests that he is better off as a slave than he would be as a free man. �No,� insists Tom. �Why Tom?� asks St Clare. �You couldn�t possibly have earned, by your work, such clothes and such living as I have given you.� �Know�s all that Mas�r,� says Tom. �But I�d rather have poor clothes, poor house, poor everything and have �em mine, than have the best, and have �em any man else�s.�

It has long been a challenge, particularly for those who are comfortable, to understand why anybody who is struggling would choose to be worse off. Liberals can take it particularly personally when those who would most benefit materially from a change in policy or circumstance opt to reject it. The assumption is that they must be misinformed, ill-informed, uninformed, stupid, naive or cruelly misled.

Whether they are poor Americans demonstrating against healthcare provision they don�t have, or direct beneficiaries of European Union funding voting to leave the EU, those who act �against� their material interests invite a mixture of befuddlement and derision.

Since becoming poorer is not a course of action any poor person would consciously take, goes the argument, they are clearly not acting rationally and deserve what is coming.

Quite why well-off liberals in particular would find someone voting against their material interests such a baffling idea is odd. They do it all the time. Whenever they vote Labour, or for any party that plans to raise taxes on the wealthy and redistribute income, they vote to make themselves worse off materially. True, they are better positioned to take a hit than those at the other end of the income scale. But there�s more to it than that. They do so, for the most part, because when it comes to politics they don�t just vote for their own financial wellbeing. They are thinking about the kind of country and world they want to live in, and the values that they hold dear.

The notion that working-class voters approach politics differently is extremely patronising. Indeed it is precisely the kind of attitude that provides fodder to the rightwing culture warriors who rail against the �coastal elites� in the US and �do-gooders�. There really are some liberals who think that they know what�s better for working-class people than working-class people themselves do.

This is not just a problem in and of itself � infantilising people in the name of their own advancement is a bad thing � it is counterproductive. When you start from the premise that those who disagree with you are acting illogically or are too unsophisticated to understand their own interests, no meaningful political engagement is possible � that would demand first understanding the logic and then challenging, converting, subverting or otherwise engaging it in the hope that you might change someone�s perspective and win them round.

This has, of course, been a particular challenge when it comes to Brexit, where the two things we know are that poor people will be the most adversely affected by Britain leaving the EU � particularly if there is no deal � and that the poorer you are, the more likely you were to vote for it.

With some notable exceptions, remain advocates have responded to this apparent conundrum by forsaking respectful engagement in favour of a combination of face-palming at the stupidity of lemmings going for a leap and promising Armageddon when they land. This didn�t work in the run-up to the referendum. And it�s not working now.

This is partly because leave voters don�t believe the hype. A recent poll showed a significant majority of them believed Brexit posed a less serious crisis than either the financial crash or the miners� strike. In other words, it�s not that they don�t understand things could get worse; they just feel they�ve been through worse. That may, as Fintan O�Toole argued in this newspaper recently, reflect the complacency of those who have only known stability. �Only a country that does not really know what the collapse of political authority looks like would play this game,� he wrote. We won�t know until it�s too late.

But also many did not vote purely for their material interest, but for something bigger that they thought more important. Polling by the Centre for Social Investigation revealed that remain voters significantly underestimated the importance that leave voters attached to sovereignty. The UK making its own rules came a close second out of four (immigration was first) in the reasons why people voted leave. When remain voters were asked why they thought people had voted leave they put the UK making its own laws last, after �teach British politicians a lesson�.

Embodied in that preoccupation with sovereignty, I believe, was a notion of what this country has been, has become and might be � a story many British, and particularly English, people tell themselves about a once independent and impregnable distinct island that has lost its autonomy to a faceless potage of bureaucrats from Babel and how this is a chance to break free. That story did not come from nowhere. From the Falklands war to Fritz, the New Labour bulldog, the entire political class has colluded in its construction. It has now been leveraged by opportunists and is consuming the political class whole.

It is a story enduring enough that when someone argues, �If you do this your factory might close,� you might respond: �It�s not my factory and �they�ve� been closing factories around here for years. But it is my country and I don�t want �them� messing with it.� In this story �they� is a moving target. It could be immigrants, it could be Brussels, it could be foreign companies. The only thing �we� know for sure is it�s not �us�.

I think that story�s deeply flawed. It is mythical about the past: those who evoke the wars conveniently forget that they could not have been won without allies. Those who evoke the empire conveniently forget that it could not have been maintained without brutality (as the current furore over Winston Churchill�s legacy illustrates). It is obtuse about the present: countries evolve, borders shift, identities develop. Our royal family is German; our favourite food is Indian; and if people could only agree on how to spell Muhammad it would be England�s most popular name for a boy. We are not who we were; nor should we seek to be. And it is fanciful about our future: our political sovereignty, like everybody else�s, is primarily constrained not by Brussels, but international capital. And since you can�t vote to leave that, staying in or out of the EU will make us less effective, but not more independent.

But I also think, in the absence of other stories, it is compelling. Far more compelling than the threat of a scarcity of fresh vegetables and a run on the pound if we crash out with no deal. Compelling enough that some would suffer to see it through. Our challenge is not to mock, but to tell a better story. One that includes them, has a future for all of us and, ultimately, turns �them� and �us� into �we�.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb/01/poorer-brexiters-worse-off-working-class-leavers

A lot of people voted for Ford against their own best interests, whether they believed his policy platform or not, because their values align with the values of the Conservative Party and the strong, toxically-masculine leadership of Doug Ford, even if following through on those values also means their lives get materially worse.

# ? Feb 3, 2019 04:53

Postess with the Mostest: Apr 4, 2007; Arabian nights
'neath Arabian moons
A fool off his guard
could fall and fall hard
out there on the dunes

vyelkin posted:

A lot of people voted for Ford against their own best interests, whether they believed his policy platform or not, because their values align with the values of the Conservative Party

This is why it's bizarre to me that non-conservatives don't vote in the conservative leadership contests. I get that you have values too but the person leading the thing can make a big difference and life would seem to be so much better with moderates like christine elliot or justin trudeau running the show.

# ? Feb 3, 2019 06:10

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; we monitor many frequencies. we listen always. came a voice, out of the babel of tongues, speaking to us. it played us a mighty dub.

Postess with the Mostest posted:

moderates like christine elliot or justin trudeau running the show.

Who would you call a radical Liberal?

# ? Feb 3, 2019 06:16

Postess with the Mostest: Apr 4, 2007; Arabian nights
'neath Arabian moons
A fool off his guard
could fall and fall hard
out there on the dunes

infernal machines posted:

Who would you call a radical Liberal?

Julie Payette or Charlie Angus I suppose

# ? Feb 3, 2019 06:32

Tochiazuma: Feb 16, 2007

infernal machines posted:

All of southern Ontario, outside of Toronto and Hamilton.

And Niagara.

No, not Niagara West. gently caress them.

# ? Feb 3, 2019 07:11

Helsing: Aug 23, 2003; DON'T POST IN THE ELECTION THREAD UNLESS YOU JOE BIDEN

Postess with the Mostest posted:

This is why it's bizarre to me that non-conservatives don't vote in the conservative leadership contests. I get that you have values too but the person leading the thing can make a big difference and life would seem to be so much better with moderates like christine elliot or justin trudeau running the show.

I actually know people who have done this.

# ? Feb 3, 2019 07:46

Postess with the Mostest: Apr 4, 2007; Arabian nights
'neath Arabian moons
A fool off his guard
could fall and fall hard
out there on the dunes

Helsing posted:

I actually know people who have done this.

there's dozens of us

# ? Feb 3, 2019 07:57

A Typical Goon: Feb 25, 2011

I'm not paying the Conservative party to vote for a leadership candidate that will be eliminated on the first ballot, that's dumb as hell

# ? Feb 3, 2019 08:02

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# ? May 31, 2024 22:10

Arc Hammer: Mar 4, 2013; Got any deathsticks?

Imagine paying to vote for the leader of a party you hate so that you can hopefully get a less tyrannical populist to lead them against your own party.

# ? Feb 3, 2019 08:24

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