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Magna Mundi is the greatest game to ever grace this earth
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Feb 2, 2019 19:12
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Sham bam bamina! posted:Because it isn't actually comparable to the pulp fiction mill of the '50s that Theodore Sturgeon was trying to defend? One group was motivated by the desire to write great books. The other was motivated by tight deadlines, low pay, and an undiscerning market (which is not to say that creative aspirations weren't also a factor, but they were far from dominant). I've been fortunate enough to live near multiple secondhand book stores with large collections of mid-century pulp paperbacks, and while they look cool and have a few diamonds in the rough, the sheer mass of absolute poo poo on those shelves puts the lie to that line of thinking completely. Never once did an ambitious modernist sit down to pen his masterwork and end up with D-99. This is probably true, although it's hard to say for sure, unless your secondhand bookstores also have large collections of the lesser works of minor modernists (plus "modernist" is a fuzzy category to begin with).
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Feb 2, 2019 19:42
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I feel like the truth of the "99% of everything is crap" statement depends on how much your "everything" encompasses. All books? All genre books? All non genre books? Etc.
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Feb 2, 2019 19:47
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I feel like the truth of the "99% of everything is crap" statement depends on how much your "everything" encompasses. All books? All genre books? All non genre books? Etc. A good rule of thumb is that less curation means more crap. The crap percentage for fanfiction is probably actually higher than 99%, but the percentage for traditionally published works is lower, and the crap percentage for books significant enough to be reviewed somewhere is lower than that, and the crap percentage for works that have stood some sort of "test of time" is even lower.
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Feb 2, 2019 19:58
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And the crap percentage for books reviewed in this thread is actually over 9000
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Feb 2, 2019 21:31
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Oops
Strom Cuzewon fucked around with this message at 23:07 on Feb 2, 2019 |
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Feb 2, 2019 23:05
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poo poo art definitely exists, but im not sure how it's existence is relevant to the masses of poo poo anime. Heck, when I went to the Tate Modern I found it very liberating to be able to call a piece poo poo. As long as I was able to articulate why, as long as I could engage with the ideas of modern art enough so that I had a decent idea of what counted as good or what counted as poo poo. I think that's one of the biggest hurdles to bringing art to the masses - even an amateur should be able to form their opinion about a piece and feel like that opinion is valid. Edit : also, lest you think I'm poo-pooing it, there were bits I loving loved, and that experience taught me about art and about my own tastes, and it owned.
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Feb 2, 2019 23:07
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This thread seems to be about video games and anime now because goons can't help themselves. Close and gas
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Feb 2, 2019 23:12
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BotL only has 24 hours of probation left, he’ll hopefully come back and set us right with another review.
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Feb 2, 2019 23:25
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He's going to come back with a review of NGE
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Feb 2, 2019 23:36
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Phobeste posted:This thread seems to be about video games and anime now because goons can't help themselves. Close and gas Well, Thanks to this thread I’m reading Titus Groan and the prose is so remarkably vital and inventive that it’s hurting my brain, like I’m lifting weights that I used to be able to, but my muscles have atrophied from reading nothing but nonfiction for the past 5 years.
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Feb 2, 2019 23:52
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Bonaventure posted:Thanks to this thread I’m reading Titus Groan Thread is doing its job! I look forward to the next twelve hours of BotL good posting before earning another monthlong probation.
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Feb 3, 2019 00:29
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once in a period of deep depression i tried to combine two of my passions, grim apocalyptic sf/f and pokemon sapphire mods, but it was a failure because in my altered state i got so distracted trying to create the perfect 8-bit grass tussock in ms paint that i wasted months on that alone and then suddenly it was time to go back to university and the nightmare was over
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Feb 3, 2019 01:11
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lofi posted:Not a guy. And no, not what I was getting at. I was being serious, I think there's just as high proportion of lovely book writing as games writing. I have no real investment in games as an art form, but it's disingenuous to judge all games by the worst examples. by 'guy' I meant sturgeon, the science fiction writer who came up with the idea. it's absurd to say that 90% of european modernism is bad because, well, it isn't. you just won't get that same ratio of bad to good there that you would in a mass produced type of art. you can pick up probably any book in that category at random and it's fairly likely it will be decent at least.
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Feb 3, 2019 01:18
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i think a lot of us have a pokepocalypse somewhere in our past
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Feb 3, 2019 01:19
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Well, what if I think that 90% of European modernism is crap? You can't actually convince me that my opinions on art are bad because they're opinions.
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Feb 3, 2019 01:22
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Sampatrick posted:Well, what if I think that 90% of European modernism is crap? You can't actually convince me that my opinions on art are bad because they're opinions.
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Feb 3, 2019 01:27
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Sampatrick posted:Well, what if I think that 90% of European modernism is crap? You can't actually convince me that my opinions on art are bad because they're opinions. presumably the argument is based, to a large degree, on people who actually are into the type of art in question. like sturgeon was defending science fiction, a genre he liked, by saying that it's ok that 90% of it is bad because 90% of most other things are bad too. however, if you're actually into european modernism, or free jazz, or whatever, in the first place, it's extremely unlikely you're going to really think that 90% of your genre of choice is crap. that's why his argument was a stupid one. i've certainly never found it to be even vaguely true when getting deep into a particular genre or style.
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Feb 3, 2019 01:32
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pikachode posted:i think a lot of us have a pokepocalypse somewhere in our past Back in high school, some Internet friends of mine and I found and mocked a very long, overwrought post-apoc Pokemon fanfic. I had the "brilliant" idea to write a parody of it using Homestar Runner characters instead. Luckily, this urge passed, but recently I found an old notebook from that era with a detailed drawing of cyborg Homsar and felt this amazing flood of retroactive shame. kind of ashamed of even writing this post TBH
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Feb 3, 2019 01:38
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Antivehicular posted:Back in high school, some Internet friends of mine and I found and mocked a very long, overwrought post-apoc Pokemon fanfic. I had the "brilliant" idea to write a parody of it using Homestar Runner characters instead. Luckily, this urge passed, but recently I found an old notebook from that era with a detailed drawing of cyborg Homsar and felt this amazing flood of retroactive shame. kind of ashamed of even writing this post TBH
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Feb 3, 2019 01:39
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Trying to visualize how detailed a drawing of Homsar, even cyborg Homsar, could be.
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Feb 3, 2019 01:46
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Sham bam bamina! posted:Then the maxim fails even harder because you've rejected the concept of anything being "good" or "crap" at all. I'm not sure of what point you think you're making here. My point is that your critique of sturgeon's law is bad because the more obvious critique is that he's literally saying that some art is good and some art is bad and this is obviously true. It's also a bad critique because you can just say that good art happens to be art that is in the top 10% of all art in that medium or genre or what have you. Like, that would be stupid, but it's a totally valid way to interpret sturgeon's law. What I'm getting at is that sturgeon's law says literally nothing so trying to criticize what it's trying to say is meaningless.
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Feb 3, 2019 01:55
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Sham bam bamina! posted:Trying to visualize how detailed a drawing of Homsar, even cyborg Homsar, could be. "Detailed" is an extremely relative term here
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Feb 3, 2019 02:04
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confession time, i've never actually read any bendy badstan and am bigoted against him based on his religion alone. so to make myself a better person i'm reading the way of kings (2010) and will report back fairly and without prejudice
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Feb 3, 2019 02:12
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pikachode posted:confession time, i've never actually read any bendy badstan and am bigoted against him based on his religion alone. so to make myself a better person i'm reading the way of kings (2010) and will report back fairly and without prejudice I never wanted to go back through and confirm, but I'm almost sure there's a paragraph in that book that the author repeated by accident, hundreds of pages apart.
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Feb 3, 2019 02:18
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Nerdburger_Jansen posted:I never wanted to go back through and confirm, but I'm almost sure there's a paragraph in that book that the author repeated by accident, hundreds of pages apart. i cant tell if this is a critique about how everything that brandon sanderson writes sounds literally the exact same
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Feb 3, 2019 02:22
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pikachode posted:confession time, i've never actually read any bendy badstan and am bigoted against him based on his religion alone. so to make myself a better person i'm reading the way of kings (2010) and will report back fairly and without prejudice I actually enjoy some of Sanderson's books, but large portions of Way of Kings are a dreadful slog. You'd be better off reading The Emperor's Soul instead.
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Feb 3, 2019 02:22
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Silver2195 posted:I actually enjoy some of Sanderson's books, but large portions of Way of Kings are a dreadful slog. You'd be better off reading The Emperor's Soul instead.
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Feb 3, 2019 02:23
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it won the best fantasy novel in the world award in 2010 and that's enough for me
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Feb 3, 2019 02:24
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Sampatrick posted:My point is that your critique of sturgeon's law is bad because the more obvious critique is that he's literally saying that some art is good and some art is bad and this is obviously true. Sampatrick posted:It's also a bad critique because you can just say that good art happens to be art that is in the top 10% of all art in that medium or genre or what have you. Like, that would be stupid, but it's a totally valid way to interpret sturgeon's law. Sampatrick posted:What I'm getting at is that sturgeon's law says literally nothing so trying to criticize what it's trying to say is meaningless. pikachode posted:confession time, i've never actually read any bendy badstan and am bigoted against him based on his religion alone. so to make myself a better person i'm reading the way of kings (2010) and will report back fairly and without prejudice Sham bam bamina! fucked around with this message at 02:43 on Feb 3, 2019 |
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Feb 3, 2019 02:29
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“Shardbearer!” he shouted. “A Shardbearer assaults the king’s hall! To arms!”
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Feb 3, 2019 02:37
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pikachode posted:dammit no i am reading the way of kings It's incredible. There's are several characters who are supposed to deliver burns so sick that the targets are left gasping for breath and everyone around bursts into applause at his cleverness. Only...Brandon Sanderson really, really can't write comedy, so you're left with large chunks of the movie reading like the on-air segments of Studio 60 on the Sunset Strip. Here's an example I found via googling: Brandon Sanderson's comedic genius posted:"You've got a tongue on you"
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Feb 3, 2019 02:40
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Feb 3, 2019 02:41
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uberkeyzer posted:It's incredible. There's are several characters who are supposed to deliver burns so sick that the targets are left gasping for breath and everyone around bursts into applause at his cleverness. Only...Brandon Sanderson really, really can't write comedy, so you're left with large chunks of the movie reading like the on-air segments of Studio 60 on the Sunset Strip. Here's an example I found via googling: IIRC, Jasnah calls Shallan out on her quips not actually being all that funny, and Wit isn't even trying to be funny so much as obnoxious. This doesn't really contradict your point about Sanderson not being able to write comedy, though.
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Feb 3, 2019 03:04
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uberkeyzer posted:It's incredible. There's are several characters who are supposed to deliver burns so sick that the targets are left gasping for breath and everyone around bursts into applause at his cleverness. Only...Brandon Sanderson really, really can't write comedy, so you're left with large chunks of the movie reading like the on-air segments of Studio 60 on the Sunset Strip. Here's an example I found via googling: Only a Mormon would write a witty burn where the burn-deliverer apparently believes oral sex feels bad
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Feb 3, 2019 03:05
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When Fantasy authors start inserting their own poetry into their novels is when the poo poo really hits the fan.brandon sanderson posted:For glory lit, and life alive
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Feb 3, 2019 03:12
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on the topic of authors who want to be poets and just can't quite get there. while i'm reading way of kings and guy gavriel kay is on my mind (sanderson is a huge ggk fan, i don't have a source for that but i can just tell) and we're on the topic of themes in sf/f, i just want to mention that even though it's pretty bad i do believe tigana is ggk's finest work because of the themes of exile and cultural annihilation that the author, being jewish, understands innately. his poetry is awful, his sex scenes are awful, his attempts at political and romantic intrigue are awful, but the longing for the lost homeland is written very well and the generational trauma hits home even possibly including the weird sex, and "nation erased so thoroughly from the world that its name can no longer be written or pronounced aloud except by people who were born there before the fall" is one of the best concepts to have come out of the genre
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Feb 3, 2019 03:27
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omfg i just googled ggk and he was born on november 7. leonard cohen died on his birthday
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Feb 3, 2019 03:31
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poor man, normal people are reading that and thinking "oh he probably didn't even notice or care" but he did. i promise you he did
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Feb 3, 2019 03:35
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Sham bam bamina! posted:I don't see how it's possible to browse a shelf of sci-fi paperbacks without agreeing with Sturgeon on that. It's more or less a pragmatically true statement about pulp fiction. Islands of Philip K. Dick and Barry N. Malzberg in a sea of Laumers and Van Vogts. malzberg is cool, you read much by him?
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Feb 3, 2019 03:41
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