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SlothfulCobra posted:That's also basically his dynamic with Garibaldi, and his relationship with his wife isn't too far behind. Centauri aristocracy really prepares you for totally one-sided relationships with the people around you. They're all temporarily embarrassed nobility  .Every once in a while this show likes to remind me how 90s it is and the bomb plot was definitely one of those times. The fact that the culprit was the Unabomber and not some religious or political extremist is just so different from what you'd see in later shows.
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Feb 3, 2019 17:40
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SlothfulCobra posted:I don't think the show ever really addressed what life was like for the "common" Centauri, or maybe they've just twisted and turned so much with their society that everybody is some kind of aristocrat. That'd be a neat idea. There's all those guards hanging about, we don't see their life but they definitely seem to be on a lower rung of the ladder. Like a guy whose life's work is guarding a flower. Do we really see any of the main alien races' "normies"? G'kar has his cult followers who seem to be working class (if that even makes sense in an alien context), the Minbari scenes revolve around fairly politically powerful people and Centauri stuff is nobles fighting each other. Although aside from the space janitor episode we don't see that much of Earth's randos either. I guess there's that Rangers/Minbari episode with the young people being trained.
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Feb 3, 2019 18:12
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There's always plenty of merchants and refugees onboard, although they seldom got actual attention. There were also plenty of human schlubs with speaking parts, like fighter pilots, beat cops, soldiers, space businessmen, and all that. B5 kinda lacked a regular cast of civilians like DS9 had going on with Garak and Quark, but it the Babylon 5 station always seemed more real and lived-in, since so many episodes revolved around station infrastructure and internal politics and having more than two businessmen aboard. Most Minbari were supposedly working caste, but it's only the warrior and religious castes that interact with the non-Minbari universe I guess. And technically after the Centauri invasion, all Narn except G'kar were civilians. We still hear about them in like, statistical terms. Offscreen Narn casualties, underground railroads, worker caste casualties in the offscreen Minbari civil war, that kind of stuff. We never exactly hear about that with the Centauri. For all we know, the guards their their own kind of regal, hereditary aristocrats, How else would you have a guard guarding the same lil' spot on the ground for 200 years unbroken? I'd love it if it turned out the Minbari worker caste all talked like they were gruff plumbers from New Jersey.
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Feb 3, 2019 18:56
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ThingOne posted:They're all temporarily embarrassed nobility The fact that people can get so close to the spacecraft arrival/departure gates with minimal screening is one of the most 90s things in the show to me.
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Feb 3, 2019 19:20
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wizzardstaff posted:The fact that people can get so close to the spacecraft arrival/departure gates with minimal screening is one of the most 90s things in the show to me. That will probably come back, tbqh. Security screening is entirely theater. 
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Feb 3, 2019 19:27
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Rappaport posted:There's all those guards hanging about, we don't see their life but they definitely seem to be on a lower rung of the ladder. Like a guy whose life's work is guarding a flower. There was that space racist family visiting B5 from Earth and complaining about how dingy everything was cause of you know who
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Feb 3, 2019 19:43
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I wish we'd seen more of the dockworkers.
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Feb 4, 2019 02:36
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Bieeanshee posted:I wish we'd seen more of the dockworkers. Unfortunately they had their problem resolved through Big Man Sinclair rather than by their own means, so they never had anywhere to develop to. 
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Feb 4, 2019 03:33
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Unfortunately they had their problem resolved through Big Man Sinclair rather than by their own means, so they never had anywhere to develop to. I still love the resolution to that one; Are you SURE you want to give me absolute power to end the strike as I see fit? You're certain? O-kay...  .
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Feb 4, 2019 07:45
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Neddy Seagoon posted:I still love the resolution to that one; Kind of a foreshadowing of another resolution on technicalities later on.
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Feb 4, 2019 15:40
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Kind of a foreshadowing of another resolution on technicalities later on. Which one was that?
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Feb 4, 2019 15:46
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Which one was that? Point of No Return, I think. The "Respect the chain of command" bit Sheridan uses against Nightwatch.
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Feb 4, 2019 15:56
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That's the one, I just didn't know if it was appropriate to spoil it because some people in thread are watching for the first time?
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Feb 4, 2019 16:17
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I see JMS is a fan of Saberhagen . Again, the A plot of the episode seems to be a mechanism to help advance the B plots. I think Londo helping Vir advance his own career was half him looking out for Vir and half him trying to get rid of Vir so he doesn't have to listen to him pointing out all of the terrible things he's doing. Garibaldi clearly doesn't believe that Franklin has his stim addiction under control but he knows from hard experience that if he pushes the issue Franklin is going to shut him out entirely.
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Feb 5, 2019 02:02
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That's a hell of a take Garibaldi  .
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Feb 5, 2019 02:16
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ThingOne posted:That's a hell of a take Garibaldi Electric bleachers? JMS has said he wrote that in based on a genuine comment from Jerry Doyle.
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Feb 5, 2019 02:18
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I can't say that Death of Personality seems much better.
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Feb 5, 2019 02:20
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It's hard to imagine that was shown on TV because that was a heavy loving episode. Death of Personality doesn't seem functionally different from the death penalty and I was surprised to see Babylon 5 break out the black hood while dealing with the Centauri telepath. I can't see it having much effect on the story as a whole but I've been wrong there before.
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Feb 5, 2019 02:58
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Death of personality is the worst combination of the death penalty and prison as state-sponsored slavery with a Brave New World "the cage is so gilded nobody will complain" gloss over it. Kill the person in every way that matters, install a new made-up personality in their meat to do whatever you want and make it actually love the work, everyone wins! The show only missed the mark in that the rewrites are penitent charity cases and not custom-tailored Stepford spouses or organic labor robots.
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Feb 5, 2019 03:09
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McSpanky posted:Death of personality is the worst combination of the death penalty and prison as state-sponsored slavery with a Brave New World "the cage is so gilded nobody will complain" gloss over it. Kill the person in every way that matters, install a new made-up personality in their meat to do whatever you want and make it actually love the work, everyone wins! The show only missed the mark in that the rewrites are penitent charity cases and not custom-tailored Stepford spouses or organic labor robots. 40k servitors might honestly be preferable because at least they're not pretending to be anything other than what they are.
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Feb 5, 2019 03:24
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My take was more that they're given a basic job to keep them paid, fed, and sheltered, as their entire mind and skillsets are wiped. They're also sent FAR from anyone who might remember who they were, to keep unfortunate incidents from happening l, and to give them a chance at a new life rather than being forced to toil in servitude without knowing why.
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Feb 5, 2019 03:34
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Neddy Seagoon posted:My take was more that they're given a basic job to keep them paid, fed, and sheltered, as their entire mind and skillsets are wiped. They're also sent FAR from anyone who might remember who they were, to keep unfortunate incidents from happening l, and to give them a chance at a new life rather than being forced to toil in servitude without knowing why. It's a nice thought, but totally ruined by Brother Edward's murderer being sent to join the monks. Not only is that the exact opposite of what you suggest, but also now every single one of Brother Theo's order must be wondering if they're a mindwiped killer as well.
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Feb 5, 2019 09:12
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Halfway through s4e17 and GARIBALDI NOOOOOOOOO neat editing though
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Feb 5, 2019 09:15
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I'm finding this whole retaking of Earth arc to be way more engaging than either the Minbari Civil War stuff (which seemed pretty arbitrary - like it was just shoehorned in to show that the Minbari are having post-war troubles of their own, and give Delenn a few more chances to shine) or the end of the Shadow War. Structurally it's cool - it's like it's finally clear that this was the real A-plot of the entire season, all the background maneuvering between Bester, Earth Gov, and other factions that happened and escalated while the war was finishing, while everything else has actually been B-plot all along. The contrast really nails home the idea that fear and mistrust among ostensible allies is a worse danger than any outside threat.
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Feb 5, 2019 09:45
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I kind of feel bad for the average Minbari who read the news one day and found out they had no govt. I think there was an opportunity to show more domestic dissension on Minbar with various groups of Minbari calling for a more representative govt where they actually voted instead of a new Grey Council.
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Feb 5, 2019 13:34
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V-Men posted:I kind of feel bad for the average Minbari who read the news one day and found out they had no govt. I think there was an opportunity to show more domestic dissension on Minbar with various groups of Minbari calling for a more representative govt where they actually voted instead of a new Grey Council. That's not how Minbari fundamentally work though. They have some deeply-ingrained traits about honor and keeping Face similar to feudal cultures like Japan's or Korea's, and raising a protest like that is just wholly un-Minbari.
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Feb 5, 2019 14:58
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The Earth war rested on people and their emotional reactions to things, whereas the shadow war revolved around everybody being manipulated be weird unknowable aliens that turned out to be physical embodiments of abstract metaphysical concepts. It's no surprise that one of those would feel more real than the other. The Minbari suffered from the old sci-fi issue of trying to thread the needle between relatability and maintaining the appearance of an inhuman culture. The other two main races on the station didn't really stick with that. The Centauri were typical aristocracy, and the Narn were sort of depicted like Klingons before they were turned into refugees.
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Feb 5, 2019 18:13
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SlothfulCobra posted:The Earth war rested on people and their emotional reactions to things, whereas the shadow war revolved around everybody being manipulated be weird unknowable aliens that turned out to be physical embodiments of abstract metaphysical concepts. It's no surprise that one of those would feel more real than the other. You were meant to assume that the Narn were the "villain" race. They look the most inhuman, they're openly belligerent, and they all shop at Bat'leth's House of Leather and Studs. Similarly, you're meant to assume that the Centauri are OK because on the surface they look so much like us they were able to claim we were their ancient astronauts for a while and because Londo spends most of his time getting drunk and maudlin. Even after Signs and Portents you still think that Londo is being seduced. But then you get as far as Knives and suddenly you're thinking "Dueling societies ... isn't that a bit like Heidelberg?" And before you know where you are you're at The Long Twilight Struggle and everything flips around.
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Feb 5, 2019 19:22
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Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:That will probably come back, tbqh. Security screening is entirely theater. Probably not. It shocked my European rear end how relaxed America was about that before 9/11, but then we had the IRA to worry about long before then.
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Feb 5, 2019 23:00
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Jedit posted:It's a nice thought, but totally ruined by Brother Edward's murderer being sent to join the monks. Not only is that the exact opposite of what you suggest, but also now every single one of Brother Theo's order must be wondering if they're a mindwiped killer as well. He wasn't sent there, Brother Theo specifically requested him. He probably did talk it over at least a little with the other members of the order.
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Feb 5, 2019 23:34
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Jedit posted:You were meant to assume that the Narn were the "villain" race. They look the most inhuman, they're openly belligerent, and they all shop at Bat'leth's House of Leather and Studs. You're not wrong, but it was one of my favorite moments early in the series. Also, the end of Season 3 got to me again during another rewatch.
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Feb 9, 2019 23:27
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Bell_ posted:This got a lot more difficult after the ant metaphor from Mind War for me. It's more G'Kar's statement after: "... no-one here is exactly what they seem; not Mollari, not Delenn, not Sinclair and not me". Merely saving Catherine could be read in many ways, but saying that hangs a lampshade on the direction the series will go.
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Feb 9, 2019 23:40
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Just binged through the last bit of season 4. god what a loving finale. what a loving season of television. gently caress.
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Feb 10, 2019 06:14
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Just did the same, watched the last five episodes of Season 4 back to back. Amazing to watch something that actually finishes what it starts in a satisfying way.
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Feb 10, 2019 13:32
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Now you've motivated me to watch the very last episode of B5 again, and I cried a little. It's so well done.
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Feb 10, 2019 14:01
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nerdman42 posted:Just binged through the last bit of season 4. Kashia posted:Just did the same, watched the last five episodes of Season 4 back to back. Amazing to watch something that actually finishes what it starts in a satisfying way. Just finished season 4 in my umpteenth re-watch myself, I've always LOVED Sheridan being dressed down as having "done the right thing, but the wrong way", and being forced to resign, and at the end revealing "actually I'm president o' space now, suck it". And the season finale really is great.
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Feb 11, 2019 23:39
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUGZ_R4T09c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8ulJ00_rd8 from http://www.b5scrolls.com/#Screen4_04_2 "This is a frame for frame re-render of a couple of short scenes from a few episodes of the show. They’re using the original Lightwave scene file for camera and model movement, lights, etc. It’s also the original 3D models and textures used on the show – and nothing has been updated in any way other than being rendered out at 1920x1080. It’s the raw CGI without any post work. " CatHorse fucked around with this message at 05:27 on Feb 12, 2019 |
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Feb 12, 2019 05:24
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I probably shouldn't have watched the next two episodes back-to-back. The whole plot with the political officer and recruiting the Walker of Sigma 957 has been completely swept away in my mind by the absolutely incredible scene between Londo, G'Kar, and Kosh. The sheer rage in G'Kar's voice when he realizes the role Londo played in the destruction of Narn and the way he breaks down when he realizes that he needs to let go of his hatred even though it was one of the few things keeping him going. I have to say that for somebody who got beaten within an inch of his life, Londo took the whole thing pretty well.
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Feb 12, 2019 05:50
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Torrannor posted:Now you've motivated me to watch the very last episode of B5 again, and I cried a little. It's so well done. same but cried a Lot
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Feb 12, 2019 05:57
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Pick posted:same but cried a Lot
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Feb 12, 2019 07:08
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