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Also when they announced the touchbar patent everyone was all “lol Apple would never do that it’s too gay even for them”
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Feb 4, 2019 21:54
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Man I dunno about a full-sized laptop touchscreen keyboard. If there was some way that you could still feel the keys, and if they implimented, like, force touch in a way that allowed you to rest your fingers on the "keys" without registering a press then it might be usable. But it still wouldn't be better than, y'know, a traditional keyboard. I guess the idea of being able to turn your MacBook on the side, connect a Bluetooth keyboard and mouse, and have two 15" portrait displays on the go is pretty neat though. You'd look like an even bigger douche than most in the people in the Starbucks, though. [Edit: oh I just saw the patent and uh how is that worse than I thought it would be?]
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Feb 5, 2019 00:02
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Apple usually gets tactile touch right with their devices (haptic engine, home button), but they really should have come up with a haptic engine for the touch bar. Even then, I'd still prefer a dedicated row of function keys in addition to the touchbar.
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Feb 5, 2019 00:23
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asecondduck posted:Man I dunno about a full-sized laptop touchscreen keyboard. If (giant IF) they had this magical feedback technology and it worked well and didn't cause RSI, then I think a touchscreen keyboard would be amazing. Instead of having to memorize arcane key combos, you could have a custom-built keyboard for every app. Stuff like Excel or vim would be great if all of the keys were labeled with what they were actually going to do, and then changed on the fly when you held down control or shift or whatever. It would be great for feature discoverability. Games could build out a custom left hand keyboard of actions/hotkeys that wouldn't be limited to the shape of a qwerty keyboard.
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Feb 5, 2019 00:42
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I don't stare at my keyboard while doing work/gaming, that sounds counterproductive. But I could imagine this being useful to some niche applications. But it's moot anyways, as the technology doesn't exist.
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Feb 5, 2019 01:00
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I had a keyboard overlay for Final Cut Pro ages and ages ago that helped me learn the shortcuts, but it wasn't necessarily better than just having a sheet of paper that had them all listed.
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Feb 5, 2019 01:03
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The only way that will work is if the keys have displays in them. Typing on glass for a length of time is ridiculous.
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Feb 5, 2019 02:08
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Apple buying Art Lebedev confirmed.  
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Feb 5, 2019 02:11
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Pro app users have so much muscle memory that looking at a Touch Bar slows us down. The thought of having to look to make sure I was hitting the right Photoshop tool thousands of times a day would make me drop macOS faster than any bullshit scissor, butterfly, seesaw whatever keyboard.
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Feb 5, 2019 02:38
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Lambert posted:There absolutely are plenty of M.2 NVMe SSDs faster than what's in the Macbook Pro 2018. Don't trust Macrumors. That benchmark is 100% useless and flawed. Apple is selling average performance at highly inflated prices. xzzy posted:Apple won't stop until we're paying $3000 for a sheet of paper that is also a computer.  asecondduck posted:Man I dunno about a full-sized laptop touchscreen keyboard. But yeah, wacky patent. I’m still waiting for the invisible camera behind the screen one to come.
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Feb 5, 2019 03:50
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Would it really be worth the $200-300 premium for a 2015 Retina over a 2013 or 2014? Being able to replace the SSD more easily is appealing for sure, but it's a bit hard for me to justify the jump on that alone.
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Feb 5, 2019 03:52
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nitsuga posted:Would it really be worth the $200-300 premium for a 2015 Retina over a 2013 or 2014? Being able to replace the SSD more easily is appealing for sure, but it's a bit hard for me to justify the jump on that alone. I have a 2013 15” that I love to bits but it’s getting a bit long in the tooth, I wouldn’t buy one now. The dGPU is getting wonky and the battery is starting to show cycles, and it’s been babied. I imagine any 2013 will be similar. I’m hating the thought of replacing it because it’s God’s perfect laptop but...
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Feb 5, 2019 04:23
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squirrelzipper posted:I have a 2013 15” that I love to bits but it’s getting a bit long in the tooth, I wouldn’t buy one now. The dGPU is getting wonky and the battery is starting to show cycles, and it’s been babied. I imagine any 2013 will be similar. I’m hating the thought of replacing it because it’s God’s perfect laptop but... How much is a battery replacement?
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Feb 5, 2019 05:17
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$200 for a battery/top case (keyboard/trackpad). I'm still chugging away on a 2.6 GHz / 16 GB / 1 TB Late 2013 15". Only 200 cycles on the battery, but I'll probably get the service done right before they vintage it just to get the most mileage possible out of it.
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Feb 5, 2019 05:32
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Splinter posted:$200 for a battery/top case (keyboard/trackpad). Not a terrible price to pay to get a few more years out of it.
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Feb 5, 2019 05:38
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Splinter posted:$200 for a battery/top case (keyboard/trackpad). Yeah I’ll probably do the same, mines exactly the same config. It’s a fantastic machine and I don’t want to replace it.
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Feb 5, 2019 08:13
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Yeah, I figure now would be the best time to trade up my 13-inch. About when would Apple “vintage” these? Is it all supply and demand?
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Feb 5, 2019 17:27
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nitsuga posted:Yeah, I figure now would be the best time to trade up my 13-inch. About when would Apple “vintage” these? Is it all supply and demand? The Early 2013 MacBook Pros are already considered vintage. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201624
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Feb 5, 2019 18:06
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Yeah, they just vintaged the Early 2013s and 2012s at the end of 2018, so I'm not expecting more than another year before the Late 2013s earn that status. I don't think there's a formula they use for determining when they vintage though, so who knows.
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Feb 5, 2019 19:22
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*Membrane keyboard Atari 400 shambles from its tomb*
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Feb 6, 2019 01:24
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Splinter posted:Yeah, they just vintaged the Early 2013s and 2012s at the end of 2018, so I'm not expecting more than another year before the Late 2013s earn that status. I don't think there's a formula they use for determining when they vintage though, so who knows. It's probably a combination of "when it's legal to halt support" and "are we running out of parts".
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Feb 6, 2019 04:16
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Data Graham posted:*Membrane keyboard Atari 400 shambles from its tomb* Goddamn, that was a lovely keyboard. My buddy had one when I was a kid, maybe 13 or so. I used it only four or five times, and I can still remember how hard I had to pound the membrane with my fingertips. It’s been close to 40 years.
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Feb 6, 2019 05:21
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Splinter posted:I don't think there's a formula they use for determining when they vintage though, so who knows.
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Feb 6, 2019 08:22
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This is the first time I’ve been frustrated by Apple ~dongle life~ problems and I’m not sure what’s my best course of action. I have a 2017 13” MB Pro (with standard function keys) that I’ve been using at my desktop with a HyperDrive Duo USB-C pseudo-dock that’s hooked up to another powered USB 3.0 dock and outputs to my external monitor over HDMI. Yesterday I got an ultrawidescreen Acer monitor with a native res of 3440x1440 to replace my old 1080p monitor. I couldn’t get the MacBook to output the native res over HDMI without using SwitchResX to create a custom resolution profile at 50hz - which is obviously not what I’m looking to be doing on a panel that supports over 100hz natively. I found out later that the dock can’t output 60hz 4k via the HDMI output so a kludgy 50hz workaround seems to be the best I can do with that particular setup. Went to Apple and picked up a USB-C to DisplayPort cable which immediately enabled native res at 100hz but it only works when plugged directly into one of the USB-C ports (which keeps me from using the dock since it requires both built-in ports) OR when plugged into the top port on the HyperDrive dock. Since the top port is also the only port on the dock that charges the laptop, this isn’t really a solution. I really like the look and self-contained nature of the HyperDrive dock, but it seems like my solution will have to involve buying a new dongle at this point. Any suggestions? Alternatively I’ve been considering trying the E-GPU route so if there’s a decent enclosure that doubles as a hub I’d be willing to check that out as well.
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Feb 6, 2019 20:58
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Honestly sounds like you just need a better dock. Looks like its HDMI port only supports 1080p @ 60Hz and 4k @ 30Hz, which I believe means it only has an HDMI 1.0 port (1.3/1.4 would in theory support 120Hz @ 1080p). I believe you'd need either HDMI 2.0, or maybe even 2.1 to support 3440x1440p @ 100 Hz. On the USB-C front, as you noticed only the top port is a Thunderbolt 3 port (which supports 40 Gb/s, more than enough to run your monitor at native res/refresh, and 100W charging). The other USB-C port is just USB3, which only supports 5 Gb/s--not enough to run your monitor at native specs--and no support for laptop charging. e: The main takeaway is not all ports of the same format are the same. You need to look at what protocol they support (e.g. is it Thunderbolt or just USB), and what version of that protocol they support (e.g. HDMI 1.4 vs 2.1, Thunderbolt 2 vs 3, USB2 vs USB3, DisplayPort 1.2 vs 1.4) Splinter fucked around with this message at 22:18 on Feb 6, 2019 |
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Feb 6, 2019 21:32
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I've used a Kensington SD5000T T-bolt 3 for nearly 2 years to run my 2017 MBP 13" to a Dell 27" 4k monitor with zero problems. Input from laptop to dock via USB-C and output via the Display port to the monitor. I can run a second monitor from a free port the first as well I believe.
Keyser_Soze fucked around with this message at 23:06 on Feb 6, 2019 |
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Feb 6, 2019 21:57
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I think you’ve also somewhat fallen foul of the problems of using HDMI for monitors. It’s unfortunately very prevalent because it’s a good choice on AV equipment like TVs but from a technical perspective it’s always lagging behind DisplayPort in terms of the bandwidth it can push over the cable. The PC market tends to push the boundaries with newer and larger monitor resolutions a lot faster than the AV space does so there’s less incentive for it to keep up. It also doesn’t help that those hyper docks are really designed for people who are mobile and are using their laptops to give presentations at meetings (which tend to want HDMI due to projectors/AV). I know it’s not super helpful for you now since you already have the hyper dock but we’ve found at work that the Thunderbolt 3 docks tend to be the best for this sort of thing since they nearly all have a full-sized DisplayPort connector along with two Thunderbolt connectors and can happily push a couple of 4K displays and power to the computer over a single cable.
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Feb 6, 2019 22:02
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Those cheap socks are limited I consider them port replicators and not actual docks
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Feb 6, 2019 22:23
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Thanks guys. So just to confirm: the HyperDrive support page is full of poo poo when it says 4k 60hz is literally impossible from any USB-C Hub?
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Feb 6, 2019 22:27
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Leathal posted:Thanks guys. So just to confirm: the HyperDrive support page is full of poo poo when it says 4k 60hz is literally impossible from any USB-C Hub? Yes. Even your dock does support 4k@60Hz, just only from the Thunderbolt 3 USB-C port. In fact that port supports driving two monitors at 4k@60Hz each. Clearly there is enough bandwidth. e: BTW there are new USB-C monitors being released that can both receive video output from a laptop, and deliver power to charge that laptop all over 1 cable. Splinter fucked around with this message at 23:28 on Feb 6, 2019 |
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Feb 6, 2019 22:52
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Leathal posted:Thanks guys. So just to confirm: the HyperDrive support page is full of poo poo when it says 4k 60hz is literally impossible from any USB-C Hub? Problem is, a lot of USB-C connectors are still running at the USB 3 specification just with a different plug and power delivery so they're capped at 5Gb/s (USB 3.0 spec) which is just barely enough for a 4k screen at 30Hz along with power/usb data/network and whatever else the hub is trying to make available and that's why it won't run at 60Hz. There's apparently a newer 10Gb/s (USB 3.1 spec) which I'd imagine can do 4k/60Hz without any issues but I don't recall seeing anything that actually supports that yet so I'd be surprised if your hyper drive does. I found a neat chart on Wikipedia while confirming the speeds which illustrates why this is so confusing:  That said, I have one of these HyperDrives and it can do 4k/60Hz over the HDMI port because it's actually hooking into the Thunderbolt controller instead of using USB-C and consequently it has 40Gb/s of bandwidth available which is more than enough to drive everything with tons of spare bandwidth left over (although the USB-C ports on it are just USB-C, they're not Thunderbolt pass through). At work I'm using an elgato Thunderbolt 3 dock which connects via a single Thunderbolt cable and has a second full speed Thunderbolt port available that can handle a 5k display as well.
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Feb 6, 2019 22:57
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Just to clarify, USB-C is just a connector. It's not Thunderbolt vs "just USB-C", it's Thunderbolt vs USB3 or USB3.1 or USB3.2, etc
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Feb 6, 2019 23:26
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Splinter posted:Just to clarify, USB-C is just a connector. It's not Thunderbolt vs "just USB-C", it's Thunderbolt vs USB3 or USB3.1 or USB3.2, etc This is awesome on so many levels.
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Feb 6, 2019 23:39
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Don't forget about the fact USB 3.1 Gen 1 is just USB 3.0 renamed for marketing reasons, there's USB 3.1 Gen 2 and what that poster is using is DP alt mode over USB-C.
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Feb 6, 2019 23:40
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I was so hopeful about this standard not turning into another XKCD comic but here we are and technology just takes another step away from meaningful comprehensibility for the majority of its users.
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Feb 6, 2019 23:58
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I don't remember, are the MBP's ports labeled with those icons? My PC laptops have them.
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Feb 7, 2019 00:17
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The Milkman posted:I don't remember, are the MBP's ports labeled with those icons? My PC laptops have them. Labels are haraam.
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Feb 7, 2019 00:20
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God's Nearly Perfect Mac Laptops (2015 rMBPs) had the labels. Edit: the labels disappeared starting with the lovely 2016 models. It's USB-C / Thunderbolt, we don't need no steenking labels. I bet Jony's responsible for that too. "Next, we take the letters off the keys! You should know them by heart now!" Binary Badger fucked around with this message at 05:34 on Feb 7, 2019 |
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Feb 7, 2019 00:32
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Binary Badger posted:God's Nearly Perfect Mac Laptops (2015 rMBPs) had the labels. In solid condition 13 inch models are right at $700 on swappa. I’ll pull the trigger soon  sure it’s only base models, but the SSd I can upgrade after I replace the battery (and get a new top case and a new keyboard with it) from Apple right before they go vintage in 2021 for $200 
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Feb 7, 2019 02:19
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Splinter posted:Just to clarify, USB-C is just a connector. It's not Thunderbolt vs "just USB-C", it's Thunderbolt vs USB3 or USB3.1 or USB3.2, etc Holy gently caress somehow I think I’m even more confused than I was before I posted itt (seriously though, this monitor issue was loving annoying to figure out to the point where I had to post a “plz help” in SHSC - so I can only imagine the shitshow that’s gonna happen in a year or two when non-nerds start running into similar issues when poo poo doesn’t work even though “the cord thingy fits the plug thingy”)
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Feb 7, 2019 06:33
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