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crabrock
Aug 2, 2002

I

AM

MAGNIFICENT






Owlbear Camus posted:

Your beardy seems to have a snubby snout, which is v. cute.

I consider the beardies in part pets for the cat, so if I got a pet for them it would be like... petception.

https://twitter.com/TheGr8Aspie/status/1081662405254483970

yeah he's got a little snub nose which makes his head more round and more adorable.

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Zamboni Rodeo
Jul 19, 2007

NEVER play "Lady of Spain" AGAIN!




gently caress YEAH APPLES!!!!







PathAsc
Nov 15, 2011

Hail SS-18 Satan may he cleanse us with nuclear fire

PISS TAPE IS REAL

Four months later, he emerges. Scared the poo poo out of my fiancée because she didn't know what the scratching noise was lol. I'm glad he's awake again!

FartingBedpost
Aug 24, 2015





My girlfriend and I got a little Axolotl from her work. It’s been a few months, but I wanted to share him with you!

Meet Otachi!



Bollock Monkey
Jan 21, 2007

The Almighty
Yesss, axolotl crew! He looks pretty young and so pale!

Cowslips Warren
Oct 29, 2005

What use had they for tricks and cunning, living in the enemy's warren and paying his price?

Grimey Drawer
Dumbass me didn't separate my largest baby axie and his smaller siblings so now I am down one of the latter, have a fat former, and he is now by himself. He seems puzzled about the new location!

FartingBedpost
Aug 24, 2015





Bollock Monkey posted:

Yesss, axolotl crew! He looks pretty young and so pale!

He’s still very young, only 4 months old, give or take a week or two. He’s super into swimming around his aquarium and then chilling in the log for an hour. We’ll probably move him into a larger tank in the next month, which I think he’ll like a lot.

PathAsc
Nov 15, 2011

Hail SS-18 Satan may he cleanse us with nuclear fire

PISS TAPE IS REAL

Fucker beard is bruminating again so I'm gonna try to breed these drat hornworms I bought as a wake up gift. Oh well, they're probably going to die.

trilobite terror
Oct 20, 2007
BUT MY LIVELIHOOD DEPENDS ON THE FORUMS!
it’s ok reptiles can’t conceptualize the idea of gift giving anyway

PathAsc
Nov 15, 2011

Hail SS-18 Satan may he cleanse us with nuclear fire

PISS TAPE IS REAL

Yeah, I'm still jealous his life consists of chasing prey, basking, and sleeping. Truly the life.

Bollock Monkey
Jan 21, 2007

The Almighty
Alright, where can I find the low-down on beardies? I want something capable of a little more love and handling than an an axolotl, and whilst a cat or dog would be great, they're not an option currently due to allergies.

I know a lizard won't be like a mammal. But I'm given to believe they're better at hanging out and showing personality than an amphibian. I'm in the very early stages of research - mostly to date I've loved the idea of a lizard friend but thought I'd never get round to it - and I want to find out more.

If it helps or matters, I'm UK-based so we don't have tropical climes, intense humidity, or air con in the picture. I'd really like some general information and resources to help me with my research.

Thanks, herp thread!

FartingBedpost posted:

He’s still very young, only 4 months old, give or take a week or two. He’s super into swimming around his aquarium and then chilling in the log for an hour. We’ll probably move him into a larger tank in the next month, which I think he’ll like a lot.

Max is nearly four now and he is lazy as hell and dumb as poo poo. It's a joy. He outgrew an old hide and when we put a new one in he spent about a week sitting on top of it because he apparently couldn't work out how to enter the tunnel.

Bollock Monkey fucked around with this message at 23:09 on Feb 21, 2019

trilobite terror
Oct 20, 2007
BUT MY LIVELIHOOD DEPENDS ON THE FORUMS!
I know that you already know this but any herp aside from maybe a really hungry tegu is gonna be happier being looked at than handled, but beardies are a standby for a reason. You can’t really go wrong with them. BTSs are also a great, albeit more expensive, option. You trade a little bit of personality/activity and a higher cost for a larger, more sedate, more “handleable” lizard. Also snakes like pythons or boas can be good for what you seem to want.

If you really want interactivity and personality and behavioral complexity, nothing beats mammals though. Something like a bonded pair of rats or guinea pigs (or rabbits, but then you’re signing up for way more space/food/fuzz requirements) will take up as much space as some big lizards and should be substantially more allergy friendly than a cat or dog if you keep them clean.

Bollock Monkey
Jan 21, 2007

The Almighty
That's a fair response, but I think that if we're going to get something else to hang out with at home both my partner and I would rather get something... cool and cute and less smelly than rodenty things? (though I hear lizard shits can be gnarly!)

I'm just not really interested in rats and guineas. Had a rabbit, guinea, and hamster at various points when I was younger but I find myself drawn towards the more unusual small animals. I know a beardie isn't going to want constant cuddles and I'm ok with that! I've also considered the BTS, and my partner isn't into snakes at all.

Copper Vein
Mar 14, 2007

...and we liked it that way.

Bollock Monkey posted:

(though I hear lizard shits can be gnarly!

I accidently taught my leopard gecko to poop in the corner of my bedroom

trilobite terror
Oct 20, 2007
BUT MY LIVELIHOOD DEPENDS ON THE FORUMS!
Herps can reek, my dude. But I hear you

Another good option for you might be a tortoise? There are some excellent species that are endemic to Eurasia and it’s fun to have them walk around and eat treats and stuff.

The cool thing about herps is that it’s not unreasonable to have a few different ones if you can take care of their space and time needs.

crabrock
Aug 2, 2002

I

AM

MAGNIFICENT






Our bearded dragon is potty trained and will only poop in his bath. Then it's just dump it in the toilet and flush, never smell that poo poo and since we bathe him every other day or so he never stinks.

Great pet for allergy prone people and also people who like to go on weekend trips. We do miss him but we put a webcam on him and can check in on him mostly doing nothing (his favorite activity).

trilobite terror
Oct 20, 2007
BUT MY LIVELIHOOD DEPENDS ON THE FORUMS!

crabrock posted:

Our bearded dragon is potty trained and will only poop in his bath. Then it's just dump it in the toilet and flush, never smell that poo poo and since we bathe him every other day or so he never stinks.

Great pet for allergy prone people and also people who like to go on weekend trips. We do miss him but we put a webcam on him and can check in on him mostly doing nothing (his favorite activity).

Wait, does he poop every other day? What happens when y’all are away and watching him on webcam?

Bollock Monkey
Jan 21, 2007

The Almighty

Electric Bugaloo posted:

Herps can reek, my dude. But I hear you

Another good option for you might be a tortoise? There are some excellent species that are endemic to Eurasia and it’s fun to have them walk around and eat treats and stuff.

The cool thing about herps is that it’s not unreasonable to have a few different ones if you can take care of their space and time needs.

Aren't tortoises pretty hard work? I thought they were one of the 'advanced' herps.

Re beardies, is this care sheet sensible?

trilobite terror
Oct 20, 2007
BUT MY LIVELIHOOD DEPENDS ON THE FORUMS!

Bollock Monkey posted:

Aren't tortoises pretty hard work? I thought they were one of the 'advanced' herps.

Re beardies, is this care sheet sensible?

Maybe like a sulcata or something exotic (or big) with dietary/nutritional sensitivities. A Russian or Greek tortoise is about as easy as a herp gets, you just need to make sure that you’re prepared to tap your heirs to take care of it if you do a good job.

Slugworth
Feb 18, 2001

If two grown men can't make a pervert happy for a few minutes in order to watch a film about zombies, then maybe we should all just move to Iran!

Bollock Monkey posted:

Aren't tortoises pretty hard work? I thought they were one of the 'advanced' herps.

Re beardies, is this care sheet sensible?
Turtles are absolutely hard work, tortoises less so.

trilobite terror
Oct 20, 2007
BUT MY LIVELIHOOD DEPENDS ON THE FORUMS!

Slugworth posted:

Turtles are absolutely hard work, tortoises less so.

Holy poo poo this

Bollock Monkey
Jan 21, 2007

The Almighty

Slugworth posted:

Turtles are absolutely hard work, tortoises less so.

Ahh, makes sense. I'd just had shell baby = difficult in my head.

crabrock
Aug 2, 2002

I

AM

MAGNIFICENT






Electric Bugaloo posted:

Wait, does he poop every other day? What happens when y’all are away and watching him on webcam?

no, he doesn't poop every bath, we just like him to smell lizardy clean

trilobite terror
Oct 20, 2007
BUT MY LIVELIHOOD DEPENDS ON THE FORUMS!

Bollock Monkey posted:

Ahh, makes sense. I'd just had shell baby = difficult in my head.

Torts are great, they need UVB. If you’re in the right climate for them they can live outdoors or in an enclosure on a balcony (I’d put a chickenwire/screen over them bc predatory birds)

Bollock Monkey
Jan 21, 2007

The Almighty

Electric Bugaloo posted:

Torts are great, they need UVB. If you’re in the right climate for them they can live outdoors or in an enclosure on a balcony (I’d put a chickenwire/screen over them bc predatory birds)

I'm in a flat in England so no chance of that working!

trilobite terror
Oct 20, 2007
BUT MY LIVELIHOOD DEPENDS ON THE FORUMS!

Bollock Monkey posted:

I'm in a flat in England so no chance of that working!

Then they can live in a tortoise table? Really I meant like part of the year

Bollock Monkey
Jan 21, 2007

The Almighty
We have no access to outdoor space that isn't the local park. But an indoor tort enclosure could work!

e: Looking more at BTS, I didn't realise how much of a beginner animal they are! Very interesting...

Bollock Monkey fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Feb 22, 2019

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

The biggest issue with tortoises is that if you keep them healthy they're a lifetime commitment, and for that reason alone, I never recommend them to anyone that hasn't already kept herps for years. The vast majority bought at pet stores and herp shows of course die early, but a bunch more wind up surrendered to shelters or sadly just abandoned because people's lifestyles change, their kids lose interest, or they just get bored with them. Are you sure you'll be wanting to still have your tortoise when you're in your 60s?

Also, and you probably already know this but it bears mentioning, a herp can cost many times more than it's purchase price in exotic vet visits from just a single illness. Identify your exotic vet in advance and make yourself aware of the potential costs. Before he died, my veiled chameleon cost me $1200 over the course of three weeks trying to figure out why he was dying, and he died anyway, and velied chameleons normally only live around 5-6 years anyway (he was 4). That sucked. It may not be typical, but it's always a possibility, and something you should budget for.

Certain herps can be handleable, with bearded dragons and blue-tongued skinks high on that list, but you should not fool yourself into thinking the lizard loves you. It tolerates your handling, may respond to your body heat, and in a few cases may actually enjoy being groomed in some way, but they are not domesticated the way cats and dogs are. You are the warm food machine, not a bonded family member. If you want a social, interactive pet that isn't a mammal, you might consider a bird of some kind, although those have their own issues (including very long-lived, highly bonded ones like parrots).

The enjoyment I get from my herps and amphibians comes from observing their natural behaviors etc. and I'd recommend approaching them from that perspective, and then accepting any additional fun you get from handling certain herps as a bonus. I'm not saying don't get a lizard! Just encouraging folks not to make an impulse commitment to one.

Cowslips Warren
Oct 29, 2005

What use had they for tricks and cunning, living in the enemy's warren and paying his price?

Grimey Drawer
I am about 37 years old. We got our first leopard tortoises when I was almost 10. We still have the first pair and some of their children, and they are probably the ONLY thing of any value going in my will.

Bollock Monkey
Jan 21, 2007

The Almighty

Leperflesh posted:

Certain herps can be handleable, with bearded dragons and blue-tongued skinks high on that list, but you should not fool yourself into thinking the lizard loves you. It tolerates your handling, may respond to your body heat, and in a few cases may actually enjoy being groomed in some way, but they are not domesticated the way cats and dogs are. You are the warm food machine, not a bonded family member.
Oh, we know this and are well aware. The illusion of love is fine. We know our axolotl doesn't really know us or what's going on, but it's still cute when he realises God is hovering over the tank and that Something Might Happen Now.

The lifespan of a tortoise is a definite downside. We are looking more at skinks at the moment (and yes, I understand that could be a 30 year commitment!). We would get pet insurance and understand that animals are an investment. Please don't think this is a case of "want cool pet, must get now!" - this is a household of two responsible adults who respect the fact that pets are living things with their own needs. We would never put our desire for keeping something above its need for a good life.

My posts are about wanting to start researching and doing this via reputable resources before making any sort of decision.

my cat is norris
Mar 11, 2010

#onecallcat

I think beardies are charming little fellows and an excellent choice for a starting herp.

Owlbear Camus
Jan 3, 2013

Maybe this guy that flies is just sort of passing through, you know?



my cat is norris posted:

I think beardies are charming little fellows and an excellent choice for a starting herp.

Agreed. I love my dumbass idiots. :3

And the maintenance is basically "turn on the lamp in the morning, off at night, spritz em with water, wipe poo poo off tile, occasionally feed live dusted crickets and otherwise dried mealworms and green veg." Not hard. And they tolerate handling well with my kids.

trilobite terror
Oct 20, 2007
BUT MY LIVELIHOOD DEPENDS ON THE FORUMS!
So there’s apparently a bit of controversy happening within the herping/herp breeding/herp YouTube/herp internet scene right now regarding the ethics of breeding and selling certain ball python morphs.

Phoneposting so I’m not gonna post anything exhaustive or any links (it’s easy enough to find them) but the TLDR is that the big herping group in the UK decided to ban the sale of “spider” morph snakes at their sanctioned expos/shows due to the known association of said morph with a group of neurological symptoms that hobbyists have dubbed the “spider wobble.” This doesn’t mean that the sale of these snakes is affected in any legal sense but it does signal a push from within the hobby to start really policing unsafe breeding practices. It’s worth noting that a few other morphs are associated with similar issues and being discussed heavily in the hobby but this action specifically targets “spider gene” snakes and their breeders.

As might be expected, some well established snake breeders/sellers who happen to sell spider morph snakes didn’t take kindly to that. Cue responses from guys like Brian Barczyck, who, as several herp youtubers have pointed out, has basically been giving a masterclass in argumentative fallacy over the last few days since the policy change was announced and has so far come out looking pretty badly in a lot of people’s eyes.

Anyway, I figured it might be of thread interest and wanted to bring the topic up for discussion

Cless Alvein
May 25, 2007
Bloopity Bloo
I mean, I love my Spider ball to death and doesn't have a wobble, but knowing the risks I would never actually breed her.


Mine is aggressive too!
\/\/\/

Cless Alvein fucked around with this message at 02:05 on Mar 14, 2019

Cowslips Warren
Oct 29, 2005

What use had they for tricks and cunning, living in the enemy's warren and paying his price?

Grimey Drawer
Had a spider once, she had no head wobble but motherfucker was she aggressive.

What do other morphs have, issues wise? I only have albino and lesser/mohaves now.

Fluffy Bunnies
Jan 10, 2009

That's been an issue for a long time and you can see people bitching about snake morphs with health issues back in the early days of the BOI on fauna.

I guess I can understand the hate if it fucks up the snake so it can't exist.

HungryMedusa
Apr 28, 2003


I have been keeping for about 17 years and here is what I have heard about morphs with issues.

Like spider balls, jaguar carpet pythons have the "wobble" in varying degrees. I had a jag carpet in 2005 who was also aggressive. I never saw any wobble or twisting with her myself, but this was before the issues were widely known in the herp community, so I might not have watched for the signs before I had to sell her in 2009. Very few breedings of jag x jag had been done by the time I sold mine.

Now we know that jag x jag carpets produce leucistic animals who do not live long out of the egg - if they make it that far. And spider balls do nearly the same thing. The results are not quite the same, but similar with motley boas and jungle boas. They live longer, but are still doomed to die an early death. The homozygous or super forms of these morphs do not thrive across different species.

That alone is enough for me to never breed a spider ball, jag carpet or motley boa. I would own one as a pet but not a breeder. Unfortunately spider balls are everywhere. I was a vendor at a reptile show last weekend (I was selling art, no animals) and the show was 70% balls. Quite a few of them were spider crosses. Breeders still make them because they are dominant and therefore easy to produce. I highly doubt everyone going home from a reptile expo with their new baby spiderX ball python knows that they could possibly have neurological issues, or be detrimental to breed. So I see the logic in legislation, but I also wonder how helpful that really is. How would someone test for the spider gene? How would you prosecute and who? Are the twisty ball pythons suffering? There is a lot we (or at least I) don't know.

Owlbear Camus
Jan 3, 2013

Maybe this guy that flies is just sort of passing through, you know?





Krayt dragons were giant carnivorous reptiles that came in two subspecies: the smaller and more common canyon krayt, and the larger greater krayt.[1] Due to their large size and ferocity, they were the apex predators of Tatooine.[3] Their bodies produced krayt venom, which helped the dragons as an acid in pre-digestion of their food.[4]

NavanaSokarad
Jan 19, 2019
OMG :D this is great. my wifey took one look at this thread and jumped back squealing. she does not like any of this stuff at all. I got a huge laugh out of it. :D

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FreshFeesh
Jun 3, 2007

Drum Solo
One of our two fat-tailed geckos has recently had a voracious appetite; instead of the normal 3-5 medium worms every two to three days, she’s now eating upwards of ten a day, and this behavior has gone on for almost a week.

Is this anything I should be worried about? I figured at a year and a half old she wouldn’t have any growing left to do.

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