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Catfishenfuego posted:Almost zero iconic scenes about the punisher revolve around him shooting people. What are you talking about? The Punisher's most defining feature is that he's an arm holding a gun and doesn't exist in any meaningful way beyond that.
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Feb 4, 2019 04:52
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Snowman_McK posted:I would love to see you expand on this, because I'm pretty sure you're either wrong or have a very specific idea of what constitutes an iconic punisher scene I defy you to name a single well regarded run of the Punisher that is about him shooting people. Even the overwhelming majority of the Ennis poo poo people jizz themselves over is examinations of Frank's damage and the horrific things people do to each other [And eventually the Punisher kills some people], rather than "He killed a dude, then he killed another dude, then he killed a bunch of dudes, and then maybe he didn't kill this dude but the dude turned on him and he killed him". It's just not what he's about. The runs that are just him shooting a bunch of things are a bunch of white noise stories from the 80s and 90s people can't even remember.
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Feb 4, 2019 06:13
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Are we talking Movie scenes or comic book scenes? this is important
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Feb 4, 2019 06:55
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I've never read a Punisher comic book, and basically all my comic book knowledge comes from goons taking the piss out of comic books. The only "Punisher scene" I can ever remember hearing about was the time that he left a steam roller parked on top of Wolverine. So I guess he is technically correct.
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Feb 4, 2019 07:27
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As someone who hasn't read anything more than a 70 page 4$ book on Iron Man or Spider-Man because my school had graphic novels in the library and they were never huge, the only iconic Punisher shooting scene I'm aware of is knife gun. Nope, I'm still wrong. Swords.
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Feb 4, 2019 09:43
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Mulva posted:I defy you to name a single well regarded run of the Punisher that is about him shooting people. Even the overwhelming majority of the Ennis poo poo people jizz themselves over is examinations of Frank's damage and the horrific things people do to each other [And eventually the Punisher kills some people], rather than "He killed a dude, then he killed another dude, then he killed a bunch of dudes, and then maybe he didn't kill this dude but the dude turned on him and he killed him". It's just not what he's about. The runs that are just him shooting a bunch of things are a bunch of white noise stories from the 80s and 90s people can't even remember. That wasn't the argument, though. It was whether iconic moments of the Punisher involve him shooting people, and I'm pretty sure they do. The others might be him getting ready to shoot some people.
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Feb 4, 2019 10:01
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Snowman_McK posted:That wasn't the argument, though. It was whether iconic moments of the Punisher involve him shooting people, and I'm pretty sure they do. The others might be him getting ready to shoot some people. Nah, there's plenty of emotional and/or weird poo poo. Like the time he was a black man or the random gut punch of his son's old cap gun in one of those money grabbing Armory books. Just "And Frank kills some dudes."? Nope. Even that gun sword thing is the ridiculousness of the art style and what is happening, nobody gives a poo poo Frank is shooting some dudes.
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Feb 4, 2019 10:28
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Mraagvpeine posted:Did Netflix officially cancel Punisher yet, or is it still to come? They haven’t officially cancelled Punisher or Jessica Jones yet. That might be because P2 only just came out and JJ3 is still due to come and they don’t want to kill even the little bit of buzz from new stuff: although I seem to recall seeing a piece of communication from Marvel saying “We literally do not want anything to do with the Punisher ever, if Netflix want it they can have it”. Might have been on twitter, just after Jon Berenthal tweeted about being at peace with it, if it turns out that Punisher is cancelled.
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Feb 4, 2019 13:06
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It was just that Punisher S1 was about to drop like immediately after the Vegas shooting and they decided to stop promoting it because it was bad timing nationally. Also I agree that the people who insist that the Punisher is about guns are probably just thinking about what they thought the Punisher was about and haven’t actually read the good story arcs.
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Feb 4, 2019 15:13
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Bust Rodd posted:Also I agree that the people who insist that the Punisher is about guns are probably just thinking about what they thought the Punisher was about and haven’t actually read the good story arcs. This is uncomfortably close to "Oh, you don't like animes, you've been watching the wrong ones, let me tell you about my animes". I don't think it's unreasonable to say that Punisher is closely associated with guns.
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Feb 5, 2019 00:52
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Police and military totally co-opt the Punisher logo for his deep moral complexities.
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Feb 5, 2019 02:22
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In my experience there are three great Punisher stories: 1. VIOLENCE gently caress YES BAM BAM BAM!!! 2. Is a philosophy of pacifism (or at least non-killing) reasonable in a world filled with psychopaths armed with death rays? Wouldn't the world be better off if the worst scum, or at least the full on super-villains, died? 3. Violence cannot solve the fundamental problems of our society, and in fact does terrible harm to both the victims and the perpetrators. DD2 was mostly story 2, most Punisher cross-overs go that way. Punisher season one was mostly 3 with a bit of 1. Punisher 2 was confused in its themes, and feels the worse for it.
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Feb 5, 2019 02:54
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I recently re-watched S1 with my girlfriend and Madani just gets the short end of the stick time and time again. She's outsmarted or outgamed by all the people at Homeland/feds. Her op where Billy is in the factory goes wrong and she is pretty much the only survivor. Her partner in Afghanistan is killed. And in the final scene where she goes to capture Billy, she unceremoniously gets shot in the head. For a show that was very aware of the Punisher and his place in comics and the world's overall culture (IE police) and deliberate steps it took to take Frank away from that, this show handled Madani really badly. I know all the cop/law enforcement characters in Marvel Netflix get killed or whatever, but it just really bugged me that an assertive and smart character seems to constantly be getting beat down in this show. Did S2 do anything to do better in that regard?
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Feb 7, 2019 04:15
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notthegoatseguy posted:Did S2 do anything to do better in that regard? She goes backwards essentially  There was some potential to mine how she dealt with the trauma of her headshot, but they basically abandon her drinking problem issue almost immediately, spend far too much time on a,"AM I EXACTLY AS BAD AS <horrible murderer> IF I KILL HIM?" storyline that is already being done with Frank anyway, and perhaps worst of all introduce the concept of her seeing the burned out, immoral result of her current path in the CIA lady but then she.... just ends up working in the CIA in the same role and apparently much happier as a result?. The supporting characters who were around her in season 1 are either entirely absent or barely appear in like one episode, and basically it feels more like she was there out of contractual obligation as the main potential storyline of season 2 is constantly interupted or sidelined for hangover stuff from season 1 to get in the way.
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Feb 7, 2019 04:45
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I'm one episode away from the end of S2 and overall it has kinda sucked. 
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Feb 7, 2019 05:05
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Refresh my memory. Did they tell us in season 2 of Daredevil that the heroin dealers who the Punisher was after were connected to the black ops stuff? I recall it being just a “regular” if extremely slick drug dealer, and thinking as the season was closing that this mysterious figure would be a looming presence and future season antagonist, until last minute nope it’s Clancy Brown the only character we introduced without a backstory. He is the guy with still no mention of the black ops.
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Feb 8, 2019 14:15
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It's pretty blurry now but what I think I remember is Frank said his CO would be the only good character witness for him, and his CO shows up and the trial and gives a speech about what a badass Frank is, and then that same guy was somehow involved in smuggling super pure heroin out of Afghanistan and arranged for all those gangs to show up where Frank's family was, hoping they'd kill him and everyone else in the area. Half of that was retconned later though when it was decided Frank was actually part of War Crimes Squad.
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Feb 8, 2019 20:10
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In conclusion: They should have expanded the Pilgrim story to 8 episodes and cut anything/everything to do with Billy and Madani out completely. The only thing that plot really achieved was to draw Curtis into the broader story. I like the character, but big whoop. I was hoping that this season would follow LC2 and DD3 in making me more annoyed that Netflix's run of Marvel shows was cancelled, but it really just left me ambivalent.
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Feb 8, 2019 20:45
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The shocking thing is that in the first 2 episodes they have a solid setup for a pilgrim storyline and then Castle flies to New York and it all falls apart.
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Feb 8, 2019 23:25
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Yeah, I was really hoping for the season to take place anywhere but NYC.
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Feb 9, 2019 03:07
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There was an interesting theme of forgiveness and redemption tying some very disparate arcs together this season. Except, not very tightly. Or in any meaningful way. And ultimately the Punisher ended up being the arbitrator of who gets redeemed and who gets shot, which severely undermined that theme. Oh well.
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Feb 9, 2019 04:40
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I was hoping to watch the Punisher take down criminals but instead we got the Punisher kills a bunch of mercenaries or something again
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Feb 9, 2019 05:57
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That said, the bouncer dying really made me sad
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Feb 9, 2019 05:58
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So Billy's genius revenge plan was to almost kill Frank but then not and let him kill nearly all his men and then trick him into thinking he killed hookers....?
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Feb 10, 2019 04:40
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Solice Kirsk posted:So Billy's genius revenge plan was to almost kill Frank but then not and let him kill nearly all his men and then trick him into thinking he killed hookers....? Also Billy's men are shooting blanks, except when Frank takes their guns and kills them with them. 
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Feb 10, 2019 04:52
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Habibi posted:In conclusion: They should have expanded the Pilgrim story to 8 episodes and cut anything/everything to do with Billy and Madani out completely. The only thing that plot really achieved was to draw Curtis into the broader story. I like the character, but big whoop. I was hoping that this season would follow LC2 and DD3 in making me more annoyed that Netflix's run of Marvel shows was cancelled, but it really just left me ambivalent. The one thing that bothered me about Curtis was that for all they mentioned his leg, he didn't at all come off as a guy with a prosthetic. With the number of fights he got into this season, it didn't seem to slow him down one bit. I was honestly expecting Pilgrim to pop him in the leg as a threat and Curtis just no-sells it because he shot the prosthetic. I might just be dumb about the state of artificial limbs these days, but I figured it would have come loose or something if you're rolling around on the ground in a tussle.
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Feb 10, 2019 06:22
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Sodomy Hussein posted:Also Billy's men are shooting blanks, except when Frank takes their guns and kills them with them. Maybe they all got Brandon Lee'd?
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Feb 10, 2019 06:23
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Billy's men are shooting rubber bullets and bean bag rounds. When Frank took their guns and shot them with it, they probably went down and stayed down, at least until he looked the other way. He probably killed at least a few by stabbing them and poo poo. On the other hand, their knives were obviously fake and just drew with red marker, because lol @ Frank's face in the hospital after that.
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Feb 10, 2019 22:46
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Billy's loving convoluted plan to make Frank think he "gasp!" killed someone is deranged at every angle. 1. How the gently caress did he pull it off? Frank is a murder machine when you're trying to kill him, and now that you're only pretending he's easily tricked and confused? 2. Frank was hosed up, outnumbered, and on the ground. Then suddenly he's able to spring up and turn the tables. Did Billy tell them to let Frank "kill" them but they're blanks and poo poo? That's awfully dangerous, Frank brought his own guns and knives and those work fine. Did they really intend to kill Frank, but Billy set them up? How? Did he leave the chumps and take all the competent members of his group? 3. Can't Frank tell if he's been shot? Ok, rubber bullets, that would work on me. But Frank's been shot like 40 times, you'd think he could tell the difference. 4. Frank's the dude that kidnapped, tortured, and then murdered an innocent man as part of a death squad. He's a combat veteran who served in the US marines for multiple tours. He never once killed a woman that he shouldn't have? No one was ever caught in a crossfire? You'd think Frank would just be upset and file it away under "yeah, no one is clean." He's a monster, he knows it.
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Feb 10, 2019 23:26
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Jerusalem posted:She goes backwards essentially Don’t forget the part in season 2 where she finally gets to square up in a fair fight with someone she should easily beat and gets the absolute poo poo beaten out of her by a therapist before getting helplessly choked nearly to death by Billy despite him being unarmed and her having a loaded gun to shoot him with
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Feb 10, 2019 23:39
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LadyPictureShow posted:The one thing that bothered me about Curtis was that for all they mentioned his leg, he didn't at all come off as a guy with a prosthetic. With the number of fights he got into this season, it didn't seem to slow him down one bit. I was honestly expecting Pilgrim to pop him in the leg as a threat and Curtis just no-sells it because he shot the prosthetic. I dunno, he’s like the most pure morally uncompromised guy and they already gave us the super painful scene of him having the upper hand before his handicap catches up to him and he gets literally beaten with his leg in S1. I was happy it didn’t really come up again and he got to do some badass stuff
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Feb 10, 2019 23:45
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counterfeitsaint posted:Billy's men are shooting rubber bullets and bean bag rounds. When Frank took their guns and shot them with it, they probably went down and stayed down, at least until he looked the other way. He probably killed at least a few by stabbing them and poo poo. Reposting this because lol 
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Feb 10, 2019 23:49
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Mr. Prokosch posted:Frank was hosed up, outnumbered, and on the ground. Then suddenly he's able to spring up and turn the tables. This is easily my biggest beef with the season as it made me actually say "oh what the gently caress" when it happened.
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Feb 11, 2019 01:00
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Piell posted:Reposting this because lol The crossed lines on his jaw are killing me, it's like a drat cartoon.
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Feb 11, 2019 04:12
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So I'm watching some of these shows; watched Punisher Season 1 and now Daredevil Season 1 and about half-way through Season 2 (I know the order is wrong). The actor who plays Punisher is pretty great. The Daredevil and Karen romance is really weird and seemed to come out of nowhere. Her only relationship with Murdoch, who she doesn't know is Daredevil, is as her blind coworker who obviously has some mysterious issue that makes him get injured and disappear constantly. It seemed like they were trying to do something with Foggy in Season 1 and then that plot thread just sort of disappeared. To be fair, he is extremely good looking. edit: One thing I don't understand though, from watching Punisher before Daredevil; I was under the impression in Punisher that dudes assassinated his family and shot him while he was in his house, but now they're saying it happened at the carousel. Was the former just a dream he had and he was in bed because it was a dream? Unrelated, but it's kind of funny how his family's actors changed between the two shows. edit2: lol Daredevil is such a gently caress-up, they have a trial the next morning and he's just chilling on the couch with Elektra (and being obviously manipulated) edit3: hahaha this is great, Foggy just owned him so hard, this whole "Daredevil is a tremendous dumbass who fucks everything up" thing is actually pretty hilarious after the first season's whole serious tone Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 09:16 on Feb 11, 2019 |
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Feb 11, 2019 08:03
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Yeah, them getting shot in the house is a PTSD nightmare. Them getting shot in the park is what actually happened.
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Feb 11, 2019 08:37
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Mr. Prokosch posted:4. Frank's the dude that kidnapped, tortured, and then murdered an innocent man as part of a death squad. He's a combat veteran who served in the US marines for multiple tours. He never once killed a woman that he shouldn't have? No one was ever caught in a crossfire? You'd think Frank would just be upset and file it away under "yeah, no one is clean." He's a monster, he knows it. Respect are troops.
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Feb 11, 2019 14:15
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Ytlaya posted:edit: One thing I don't understand though, from watching Punisher before Daredevil; I was under the impression in Punisher that dudes assassinated his family and shot him while he was in his house, but now they're saying it happened at the carousel. Was the former just a dream he had and he was in bed because it was a dream? Unrelated, but it's kind of funny how his family's actors changed between the two shows. Yes, it's a recurring nightmare for him. The thing happened at the carousel.
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Feb 11, 2019 14:36
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I love Jon Bernthal and he's great as Frank/Punisher but this was not a good season of TV. I'd like to see him continue to play the character but if this show doesn't move forward in some capacity then so be it. Too much Madani (who I like but they just keep setting up to fail and be a plot device) not enough Pilgrim doing meaningful things. Billy seemed directionless. Overall cool combat but Frank sitting up Undertaker style after taking an absolutely inhuman beating from six guys with crowbars and then killing them all is just amazingly bad Curtis is cool and good and I like the actor who plays him. I lowkey wish they'd cancel JJ3 before even releasing it at this point, lol
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Feb 11, 2019 15:41
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I've posted a about how New York was invaded by space aliens and defended by superheroes, and the main effect this has had on the Netflix MCU is that Hell's Kitchen got un-gentrified and a guy got some Luke Cage-piercing bullets. I forgot about a huge, far-reaching event that got even less coverage: the reveal that the American government, military, and intelligence communities were revealed to be thoroughly infiltrated by HYDRA super science Nazis, and none of the shows mentioned that. And you'd think that mignt have some effect on The Punisher's exploration of how the MIC sucks.
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Feb 11, 2019 17:06
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