Teh shield hero quarantine zone / Sharkopath dazzles goons with realistic armour

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Do u love shield hero
	Yeah I hate women
	I think I may
	I doubt it
	It's poo poo from an rear end mate

doomrider7: Nov 29, 2018

Vorpal Cat posted:

One place where the colonial interpretation of Slime falls apart is that most of the knowledge and advancements that happen to the goblin village aren't from Rimuru himself, but from the various allies he makes among the other races who live in the region, spreading existing knowledge and customs instead of introducing them in the first place. The goblins learn armor making and construction techniques from the dwarfs, silk weaving and other textile manufacturing from the ogres, and improved farming from the lizard men. Also many of these foreign experts are themselves refugees who join the increasingly multicultural society that the village, later city, is becoming. The most "imposing his culture on the natives" thing Rimuru does is introduce them to the concept of indoor plumbing and japanese style baths

There are certainly a number of problematic elements in slime, hello monsters getting more human like as they get more powerful, but I don't think justifying colonialism is one of them.

Pretty much this. The indigenous names thing also makes no sense since they already had names while the monster didn't. Them being Japanese is also irrelevant since neither Geld nor Gabiru are Japanese names, hell the names he gives the monsters are basically Gob/Orc followed by vowels/numbers/colors because he can't be assed to come up with anything more creative. Even the ogres and human lizard peoples names are just colors followed with flower names. As an aside, the agriculture was from Hobbits. The Lizardmen help with the cultivation of the healing herbs and securing the cave which is now something of a federal research facility.

# ? Feb 7, 2019 01:49

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# ? Jun 11, 2024 05:06

Cipher Pol 9: Oct 9, 2006

Shield Hero Ep 4: Enough has been said about the You Should Have Slaves Too speech so I want to touch on something else.

Shield Hero's loving orange balloon pets. It was one thing for him to use it to intimidate the shopkeeper in episode one or two or whatever, but his ability to use them against Spear Hero shows how little this author cares about anything but making Shield Hero look good. These are the lowest of the low level monsters, Shield Hero himself was able to punch them to death with his 0 attack stat. He could've put a hundred of them in the shield prison with the Spear-O and it shouldn't have made a difference but Shield Hero has to look like an underestimated genius so Spear-O loses his cool because the Shield threw some level 1 Slimes at him.

I'd read this thread before watching the episode so I was prepared for the slave speech, and the unbelievably stupid "everyone hates shield hero and nobody believes him because he has a shield" thing has been present since episode 1 so I'm numb to it now, but that stupid loving fight blindsided me. My friend picked this show to watch so I'm following it for his sake (hopefully he'll agree it's trash too before the drat end) but I am honestly impressed that it keeps finding ways to get worse. I'm a simple man. I like isekai because I like stats and RPG mechanics and cool fights. I am incredibly easy to please and would've been sold on this series just on the potential of the Big Ol' Shield Sphere Grid the Shield Hero brings up sometimes. But drat the author just pours all their energy into women hating and incompetently propping up the protag.

# ? Feb 7, 2019 02:45

HerpicleOmnicron5: May 31, 2013; How did this smug dummkopf ever make general?

I just don't get how the heck he keeps the balloons on him. It's not even a "funny" gag - it's outright a part of his kit.

# ? Feb 7, 2019 03:24

Babysitter Super Sleuth: Apr 26, 2012; my posts are as bad the Current Releases review of Gone Girl

"But it's actually good for them because they're so primitive" is, like, colonialism justification 101 here, come the gently caress on

Native Americans, who probably as a collected culture had the most exhaustive knowledge of agriculture of literally any contemporary civilization in the world and whose cultivation advancements are literally the only reason modern society can even loving exist, were colonized basically to the edge of extinction by white settlers because "look at them, they're like children, they don't even have metal tools"

# ? Feb 7, 2019 03:39

Brought To You By: Oct 31, 2012

Irony Be My Shield posted:

I don't think it's a "fun trainwreck". It's a well-produced show with a rote but competent isekai storyline. There aren't really many moments of unintentional comedy. The only interesting point is how blatant the misogyny is and how closely it tracks to incel talking points.

It's not a fun trainwreck, it's a regular one where the cast and story trips over itself almost every episode for one reason or another. A competent Isekai story as of late isn't really a good story in my opinion, much less most of these light novel adaptations that have been coming out in the past half-decade. How many times do I have to see a story where the main character is this guy with a "bad" or "mediocre" skillset that's secretly the best one for the story but nobody will recognize him until he's saved everyone from at least 1 doomsday scenario? How many stories need to prop up the MC by having everyone around him/her act moronic?

Cipher Pol raises a good question. This is a video game system at play, and the balloon enemies are trash mobs. How much damage can they deal to the spear hero who is way above their level and has armor that's been funded by the kingdom itself? It is 100% possible in some RPGs to get to the point where an enemy deals 0 damage too you, most commonly revising the first area of a game after a few dungeons will demonstrate this but not always as 1hp is usually what I'll encounter. But if pain happens because you got hurt, am I supposed to believe that an enemy even Naofumi can handle and only gives 1xp, was able to deal even 1hp of damage to the spear hero? Yeah it's a humiliating scene, but does it really make sense?

# ? Feb 7, 2019 03:47

SpartanIvy: May 18, 2007; Hair Elf

Start of Episode 5:

"Welp at least the slavery aspect is gone, this should be less bad now"
*girl gets slave collar put back on*
:shepface:

End of Episode 5:

"Really liking this bird creature"
*bird turns into loli*
:shepicide:

In regards to ball creatures, I think of it this way: I will step on cockroaches all day but if one starts flying at me in the middle of a fist fight you bet your rear end I'm screaming and running away

# ? Feb 7, 2019 03:48

Space Flower: Sep 10, 2014; by Games Forum

i like how he's invoking darkwing duck every time he does the cape thing, it's so chuuni. plus i got the impression the monsters were owning the spear hero because he wasn't prepared to get locked in that ball where he couldnt do poo poo with a spear.

# ? Feb 7, 2019 03:49

Captain Invictus: Apr 5, 2005; Try reading some manga!; Clever Betty

Srice posted:

Gonna be honest, whether pro-colonial themes were written accidentally or on purpose either way it doesn't make me view anything in a different light. I have no familiarity with the show in question so I'm only going off the arguments you're presenting and can't comment about stuff regarding specific story arcs.

I don't feel that anyone is overthinking it at this point because it's not exactly a stretch based on what has been said.

I would be interested if you were to watch slime isekai and post your takes on aspects of it being colonialism or not tbh

Namtab posted:

The parallels of the monsters gaining power when given a (Japanese) name to the real world colonial practice of giving indigenous people "christian" names during colonisation

I can see it that way, I could also see it as literally any rpg where a monster or character in a group of generic mobs that has a name will always be stronger type of monster or a boss mob. Usually there's only one or two in a group but he's doing it to everyone.

# ? Feb 7, 2019 04:31

punk rebel ecks: Dec 11, 2010; A shitty post? This calls for a dance of deduction.

Brought To You By posted:

Most of the outrage is people putting on airs. The real bulk of the offensive content has been neutered across 3 different adaptations and the anime is the most tame of the versions, while still unable to escape some incredibly eye rolling moments and terrible implications. If you want to watch a trainwreck this is your show. If you want a fantasy story with a well written plot and interesting characters you can root for; Promised Neverland isn't getting enough love, and Jojo is still happening. Also I've heard Radiante is good, but takes a few episodes to take off.

Wait, the original material is worse?

# ? Feb 7, 2019 04:31

WeedlordGoku69: Feb 12, 2015; by Cyrano4747

Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:

"But it's actually good for them because they're so primitive" is, like, colonialism justification 101 here, come the gently caress on

Native Americans, who probably as a collected culture had the most exhaustive knowledge of agriculture of literally any contemporary civilization in the world and whose cultivation advancements are literally the only reason modern society can even loving exist, were colonized basically to the edge of extinction by white settlers because "look at them, they're like children, they don't even have metal tools"

i mean, there is a quantifiable difference between having an advanced civilization in ways that outsiders don't recognize, and literally not having a civilization period.

like, i don't see the colonialist reading of Slime as necessarily invalid, but i feel like you really have to twist a lot of things for it to map 1:1.

# ? Feb 7, 2019 05:05

Relin: Oct 6, 2002; You have been a most worthy adversary, but in every game, there are winners and there are losers. And as you know, in this game, losers get robotizicized!

Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:

"But it's actually good for them because they're so primitive" is, like, colonialism justification 101 here, come the gently caress on

Native Americans, who probably as a collected culture had the most exhaustive knowledge of agriculture of literally any contemporary civilization in the world and whose cultivation advancements are literally the only reason modern society can even loving exist, were colonized basically to the edge of extinction by white settlers because "look at them, they're like children, they don't even have metal tools"

these japanese authors memory doesnt extend back to when their people were slaves

# ? Feb 7, 2019 05:49

Cipher Pol 9: Oct 9, 2006

HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:

I just don't get how the heck he keeps the balloons on him. It's not even a "funny" gag - it's outright a part of his kit.

I have no idea! If they can't damage him I assume they can't get anything from it so they're either so basic that they can't stop trying to bite through or they just like the taste of... armor, I guess. It was fine the first time but it was really, really dumb during a duel against someone who just helped fend off a monster invasion.

SpartanIvy posted:

In regards to ball creatures, I think of it this way: I will step on cockroaches all day but if one starts flying at me in the middle of a fist fight you bet your rear end I'm screaming and running away

Cockroaches are harmless, we're afraid of them as giant humans becuse they're gross and we're dumb. Giant angry balloon monsters that you presumably slaughtered by the hundreds to level up should not have that kind of impact anymore, especially after what they fought during the wave. It's silly. Again, spear or no spear, an average person can punch one to death easily.

# ? Feb 7, 2019 05:51

Space Flower: Sep 10, 2014; by Games Forum

LORD OF BOOTY posted:

i mean, there is a quantifiable difference between having an advanced civilization in ways that outsiders don't recognize, and literally not having a civilization period.

well, yeah, that's the point being made. a work of fiction written by an imperialist is probably not going to weave a detailed portrait of tribal civilization. they /are/ the outsider, they /are/ the one who doesn't recognize. it's going to imply that such a thing doesn't exist to begin with, which sets the stage for the protagonist who has knowledge and power.

# ? Feb 7, 2019 06:55

Mulderman: Mar 20, 2009; Did someone say axe magnet?

I think the idea behind colonialism and how you can apply that to an Isekai series has potential. It wouldn't be a series for me, but you can definitely tell some interesting stories there.
But if you want to look at Slime using that angle, you're just going to frustrate yourself because as far as I can tell, the author has nothing to say on that subject and there are no points being made. In universe there are no downsides to the changes introduced by the protagonist, there are no people who are against it. It's a perfect fantasy. Naturally that poo poo doesn't fly in the real world and "It's better for them" is an excuse that's often used in order to justify colonization. But that is not the story Slime is telling.

It's a lighthearted story about a good slime, tsundere dragons and a group of monsters coming together and form a society. Slime has nothing to say on the subject of colonialism.

# ? Feb 7, 2019 09:10

Mordaedil: Oct 25, 2007; Oh wow, cool. Good job.
So?; Grimey Drawer

I feel like for slime to be proper colonism, it's lacking in rapes, enslavement or subjugation of primitives.

Maybe you can do a reading of the naming ritual as implicitly being about that, but I feel it's lacking a lot of claw, much like how downplayed and watered down Columbus day is presented to children.

I mean I can certainly see parallels, but in the story the monsters are outright giddy to engage in the practice, which you can read as thrill of the savages being promised an easier life, and you can see their happiness in what he provided them as a subservience similar to what they called a House-slave in the past. You can read it this way, but it's worth noting that Slime is reluctant in accepting any sort of worship or responsibility that they don't foist upon him.

You can take these readings as such, but I don't think they hold up anything beyond surface scrutiny.

# ? Feb 7, 2019 09:13

Sharkopath: May 27, 2009

Mordaedil posted:

I feel like for slime to be proper colonism, it's lacking in rapes, enslavement or subjugation of primitives.

Maybe you can do a reading of the naming ritual as implicitly being about that, but I feel it's lacking a lot of claw, much like how downplayed and watered down Columbus day is presented to children.

I mean I can certainly see parallels, but in the story the monsters are outright giddy to engage in the practice, which you can read as thrill of the savages being promised an easier life, and you can see their happiness in what he provided them as a subservience similar to what they called a House-slave in the past. You can read it this way, but it's worth noting that Slime is reluctant in accepting any sort of worship or responsibility that they don't foist upon him.

You can take these readings as such, but I don't think they hold up anything beyond surface scrutiny.

normally i dont make mean callouts but this is a genuinely embarassing post.

# ? Feb 7, 2019 09:18

Mordaedil: Oct 25, 2007; Oh wow, cool. Good job.
So?; Grimey Drawer

Sharkopath posted:

normally i dont make mean callouts but this is a genuinely embarassing post.

I'm glad I can make you happy.

# ? Feb 7, 2019 09:28

Sharkopath: May 27, 2009

Mordaedil posted:

I'm glad I can make you happy.

I am not made happy by it.

# ? Feb 7, 2019 09:30

Sharkopath: May 27, 2009

I am made happy by love and beauty and song.

And you cant sing over the internet.

# ? Feb 7, 2019 09:30

Sharkopath: May 27, 2009

*drags skype.exe into the trashbin*

# ? Feb 7, 2019 09:31

Namtab: Feb 22, 2010

Sharkopath posted:

*drags skype.exe into the trashbin*

Discord, motherfucker

# ? Feb 7, 2019 09:31

Dire Lemming: Jan 19, 2016; If you don't coddle ~~Nazis~~ flat Earthers then you're literally as bad as them.

Mulderman posted:

I think the idea behind colonialism and how you can apply that to an Isekai series has potential. It wouldn't be a series for me, but you can definitely tell some interesting stories there.
But if you want to look at Slime using that angle, you're just going to frustrate yourself because as far as I can tell, the author has nothing to say on that subject and there are no points being made. In universe there are no downsides to the changes introduced by the protagonist, there are no people who are against it. It's a perfect fantasy. Naturally that poo poo doesn't fly in the real world and "It's better for them" is an excuse that's often used in order to justify colonization. But that is not the story Slime is telling.

It's a lighthearted story about a good slime, tsundere dragons and a group of monsters coming together and form a society. Slime has nothing to say on the subject of colonialism.

It's true that it doesn't have anything to say itself, but there's the fact that a light-hearted comedy can have colonialist undertones that go unnoticed by both the readers and the author themselves. The point is not that it's a show about colonialism, it's that it's a show not about colonialism that casually brushes up against some potentially really messed up stuff without even noticing.

# ? Feb 7, 2019 09:31

Sharkopath: May 27, 2009

Namtab posted:

Discord, motherfucker

*drags namtab.exe into a folder named COMPUTERJAILS*

# ? Feb 7, 2019 09:34

doomrider7: Nov 29, 2018

From what I'm gathering here is that Rimuru is the villain for having helped any of the people he did or that there are unintentionally insidious undertones to everything he did so having been an uninvolved observer should have been the way to go.

# ? Feb 7, 2019 09:35

Sharkopath: May 27, 2009

Instead of reading ungood posts that are entirely unable to grok criticism beyond the text you should learn more about standing rock and pick-sloane.

Thats your homework I'm forcing you to do now because I am your teacher and guide and general authority figure all in one.

# ? Feb 7, 2019 09:38

Mordaedil: Oct 25, 2007; Oh wow, cool. Good job.
So?; Grimey Drawer

doomrider7 posted:

From what I'm gathering here is that Rimuru is the villain for having helped any of the people he did or that there are unintentionally insidious undertones to everything he did so having been an uninvolved observer should have been the way to go.

No? It's not a fault of the character in the story as much as it is the author framing the narrative in a certain way that can be read as advancing the savages to a better life and "making them human-like". Try to read that with perspective of indigenous people in Earth history and you can see unfortunate parallels.

This doesn't mean the character is a villain, but it reinforces a viewpoint that is ultimately problematic. It's kind of inescapable, the effects colonialism has had on the world at large, but our history tries to teach that this was a good thing, while the people repressed by this have a very different idea about that.

# ? Feb 7, 2019 09:44

Sharkopath: May 27, 2009

Guilty pleasures� appeal,
sure, but in the final analysis, its lure�s all atrocity, all savage.

# ? Feb 7, 2019 09:44

Dire Lemming: Jan 19, 2016; If you don't coddle ~~Nazis~~ flat Earthers then you're literally as bad as them.

doomrider7 posted:

From what I'm gathering here is that Rimuru is the villain for having helped any of the people he did or that there are unintentionally insidious undertones to everything he did so having been an uninvolved observer should have been the way to go.

This is a joke right? You're not actually throwing a hissyfit over this right? No, Rimuru is pretty objectively a good person, that's not what is being discussed. Keep in mind I enjoyed the manga of this, I haven't seen the anime yet but I will eventually. The point here is that the author created a world where there were a large group of prototypical "savage" people and their problems were only solved when a Japanese person came along and helped them. I'm pretty sure the author wasn't saying anything about any particular indigenous group by doing this, but it can certainly be read that way and that is interesting at the very least.

# ? Feb 7, 2019 09:44

Wark Say: Feb 22, 2013; by Fluffdaddy

You can't drag all your problems into the thrash bin, Sharky.

# ? Feb 7, 2019 09:45

Sharkopath: May 27, 2009

Life would be very easy if you could.

# ? Feb 7, 2019 09:46

doomrider7: Nov 29, 2018

Dire Lemming posted:

This is a joke right? You're not actually throwing a hissyfit over this right? No, Rimuru is pretty objectively a good person, that's not what is being discussed. Keep in mind I enjoyed the manga of this, I haven't seen the anime yet but I will eventually. The point here is that the author created a world where there were a large group of prototypical "savage" people and their problems were only solved when a Japanese person came along and helped them. I'm pretty sure the author wasn't saying anything about any particular indigenous group by doing this, but it can certainly be read that way and that is interesting at the very least.

My general point is that Vorpal Cat's comnents from the previous page were spot on and should have ended the discussion about but somehow didn't because...reasons? Like to get to colonialism you'd have to run a marathon to get there.

# ? Feb 7, 2019 09:52

Namtab: Feb 22, 2010

doomrider7 posted:

From what I'm gathering here is that Rimuru is the villain for having helped any of the people he did or that there are unintentionally insidious undertones to everything he did so having been an uninvolved observer should have been the way to go.

Are you really so dense as to confuse a critical analysis with a direct callout of the show as bad?

Nobody has said anything like that, what they have said is that when you examine the show with a lens of colonialism there's a valid pro colonists reading and that's interesting.

As another example, there's a valid pro socialism/multiculturalism reading as well. Each character puts into the society as they are able, and takes out what they need. Creatures of all races band together and impart their own culture and skills st to create a synergistic whole. The society as a result is portrayed as progressive and peaceful.

This is also a valid reading, the existence of both readings is valid at the same time because it's an analysis. A critical analysis is not a review, it is not there to say whether something is good or not, it's there to examine the show from a certain viewpoint.

# ? Feb 7, 2019 09:54

Dire Lemming: Jan 19, 2016; If you don't coddle ~~Nazis~~ flat Earthers then you're literally as bad as them.

doomrider7 posted:

My general point is that Vorpal Cat's comnents from the previous page were spot on and should have ended the discussion about but somehow didn't because...reasons? Like to get to colonialism you'd have to run a marathon to get there.

That's not a refutation of the underlying problem, the goblins were "savages" and their lives could only be improved with the help of "civilised" nations. It doesn't matter that there were multiple influences, the goblins were savages that were uplifted, they are portrayed as having no culture of their own. Which as has been pointed out is basically colonialism justification number 1.

# ? Feb 7, 2019 10:00

Sharkopath: May 27, 2009

I like that tiffany midge poem a lot because its commentary and crit on what was a supremely popular series of romance lit and isntead of being some line by line attack just throws it at you to see

# ? Feb 7, 2019 10:00

Namtab: Feb 22, 2010

Remember that critique of a show is not critique of you as a fan

# ? Feb 7, 2019 10:02

Sharkopath: May 27, 2009

also it just has a real neat structure and scheme

# ? Feb 7, 2019 10:03

Onmi: Jul 12, 2013; If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.

doomrider7 posted:

My general point is that Vorpal Cat's comnents from the previous page were spot on and should have ended the discussion about but somehow didn't because...reasons? Like to get to colonialism you'd have to run a marathon to get there.

"I may have torn every muscle in my body to make this stretch but now that I'm here I'm not letting go!"

# ? Feb 7, 2019 10:04