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Lol that the people who subscribe to Chapo on Patreon paid a good chunk of that to a Kushner company
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Feb 6, 2019 05:25
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gradenko_2000 posted:cross-posting because Patreon seems relevant/important to a big chunk of the hobby (and to independent arts in general) Yeah, the writing was on the wall that Patreon would inevitably do something real dumb the last time they did something real dumb which cost a bunch of people a chunk of their patrons. That's not an "I told you so" but I imagine everyone who was affected last time has given more than a moment's thought as to a migration strategy should they break stuff in a more serious way next time.
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Feb 6, 2019 05:27
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Kai Tave posted:Yeah, the writing was on the wall that Patreon would inevitably do something real dumb the last time they did something real dumb which cost a bunch of people a chunk of their patrons. That's not an "I told you so" but I imagine everyone who was affected last time has given more than a moment's thought as to a migration strategy should they break stuff in a more serious way next time. And as these things go, a lot of noise was made about alternatives, most of which is largely notional, so when it happens again poo poo's going to either fragment drastically or just collapse totally, neither of which are great for the people actually producing the work that makes all the (non-VC) money in the first place.
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Feb 6, 2019 06:20
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Bully Pulpit Games and Dennis Detwiller have presences on Drip and Drip looks pretty decent in terms of service and also success for them so good on them for branching out early.
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Feb 6, 2019 07:36
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moths posted:It's pretty much hardwired into gamers to just get silly, though. Just get it all out of the way in the first session so the novelty wears off. Run it into the ground on purpose.
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Feb 6, 2019 08:08
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Hostile V posted:Bully Pulpit Games and Dennis Detwiller have presences on Drip and Drip looks pretty decent in terms of service and also success for them so good on them for branching out early. Drip is still invite only right now (at least according to their website.)
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Feb 6, 2019 13:11
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Just get it all out of the way in the first session so the novelty wears off. Run it into the ground on purpose. If the intention is to have a serious session, what I like to do is have everyone chat and joke a bit at the start of the evening during the usual social catching-up, and then have a regular little routine for going IC. Metaphorically or literally dim the lights, maybe play a particular bit of music, do a recap of the last session's action (keeping it serious in tone), and do some real clear, evocative narration of where the PCs presently are and what they are presently experiencing, making sure to cover as many senses as possible. It's a bit of ritual which nicely separates the evening from "goofing around time" to "character immersion serious gaming time".
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Feb 6, 2019 13:28
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gradenko_2000 posted:cross-posting because Patreon seems relevant/important to a big chunk of the hobby (and to independent arts in general) It’s bewildering that they describe their model as unsustainable when their take is currently 5%. Seems like they could easily double or even triple that with little impact to creators. But I guess making reasonable amounts of money is unacceptable when the industry standard is to cannibalize everything you can about your users.
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Feb 6, 2019 16:22
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8one6 posted:Drip is still invite only right now (at least according to their website.)
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Feb 6, 2019 16:33
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One of the things that made me laugh about the Patreon announcement was the implication that they want to implement the ability to host/stream video so that they can directly compete with Youtube/Twitch rather than just being an alternate revenue stream for primary users of those platforms. And uhh, yeah, sure, good luck with that.
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Feb 6, 2019 17:17
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I mean, it's not a bad idea, but judging by how kludgey the Patreon site is to begin with, they may want to consider cleaning up the hovel they live in before trying to make it into a playhouse.
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Feb 6, 2019 17:26
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RiffTrax went with Drip, which I thought was odd at the time. Now it might providential.
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Feb 6, 2019 17:37
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Speaking of Critical Role, I'm enjoying it, starting with Season 2. And I am kinda not getting the complaints about editing or whatever, because at least at the start of this campaign, most of Episode 2 is spent with the players utterly failing to find the plot, and the DM kind of just rolling with it but also kinda being unhelpful and not really giving them any obvious direction. So ... that felt pretty close to an actual D&D session, only with way better voice acting. Also, on a smaller note, I was watching a battle and thinking, "Oh hey, that looks really familiar..." when I looked at the battle mat. And sure enough, it's from Mats by Mars, owned/run by one of my old players back in the early 00's, back when I was running Call of Cthulhu and Arcana Evolved. A few years back, he sent me like 20 of those maps along with a really nice letter about how those years of gaming helped inspire him to get into the RPG accessory biz. It's weird how that all went full-circle, and I have to say, I am really proud of him. 
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Feb 6, 2019 17:47
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dwarf74 posted:back when I was running... Arcana Evolved. take it to the Chat thread if you'd like, but what did you think of this system? I bought it for cheap last year and have been thinking of running it
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Feb 6, 2019 18:03
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gradenko_2000 posted:take it to the Chat thread if you'd like, but what did you think of this system? I bought it for cheap last year and have been thinking of running it
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Feb 6, 2019 18:36
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DalaranJ posted:It’s bewildering that they describe their model as unsustainable when their take is currently 5%. Seems like they could easily double or even triple that with little impact to creators. But I guess making reasonable amounts of money is unacceptable when the industry standard is to cannibalize everything you can about your users. The problem isn't sustainability. It is year on year profit increases needed to pacify the investors.
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Feb 6, 2019 20:44
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Alien Rope Burn posted:I mean, it's not a bad idea, but judging by how kludgey the Patreon site is to begin with, they may want to consider cleaning up the hovel they live in before trying to make it into a playhouse. It’s actually one of their worst possible ideas. Video would massively increase their hosting costs.
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Feb 6, 2019 20:48
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Mors Rattus posted:It’s actually one of their worst possible ideas. Video would massively increase their hosting costs. Why would anyone in their right mind want to copy YouTube, a thing that notoriously loses money?
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Feb 6, 2019 21:49
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Lord_Hambrose posted:Why would anyone in their right mind want to copy YouTube, a thing that notoriously loses money? Because if people never leave Patreon to consume their media it will be easier for Patreon to try and cross-sell them other ways to give Patreon money. But that's incredibly dumb. People just don't throw money at random creators just because they might be good. They give money to people they're already following and invested in. The reason Patreon works as an "exclusivity" thing is because there is public media elsewhere, and people can 1)find creators 2)consume their work 3)want to give them money and then 4)get bonus rewards FROM patreon for doing so. Patreon wants to remove 2 all together.
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Feb 6, 2019 22:14
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Lord_Hambrose posted:Why would anyone in their right mind want to copy YouTube, a thing that notoriously loses money?
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Feb 6, 2019 22:21
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Lord_Hambrose posted:Why would anyone in their right mind want to copy YouTube, a thing that notoriously loses money? Because capitalism is stupid
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Feb 6, 2019 22:24
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Mors Rattus posted:It’s actually one of their worst possible ideas. Video would massively increase their hosting costs. You're right, I wasn't thinking about that. Granted, the thing about video is that you wouldn't have explosive views like Youtube or Twitch, most would be limited to subscribers. Of course, that would also keep it from having the reach their investors would likely want out of video investment in the first place.
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Feb 6, 2019 22:39
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dwarf74 posted:Speaking of Critical Role, I'm enjoying it, starting with Season 2. And I am kinda not getting the complaints about editing or whatever, because at least at the start of this campaign, most of Episode 2 is spent with the players utterly failing to find the plot, and the DM kind of just rolling with it but also kinda being unhelpful and not really giving them any obvious direction. So ... that felt pretty close to an actual D&D session, only with way better voice acting. Critical Role is a whole different beast to what most people were discussing back there, as far as I know they don't really do any editing and is more included in the 'unrealistic expectations' and 'dont get to see the work going into it out of session to see how it gets to here' categories than any of the editing stuff people were talking about.
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Feb 6, 2019 23:15
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kingcom posted:Critical Role is a whole different beast to what most people were discussing back there, as far as I know they don't really do any editing and is more included in the 'unrealistic expectations' and 'dont get to see the work going into it out of session to see how it gets to here' categories than any of the editing stuff people were talking about. There seemed to be an odd tangent that arose with "Critical Role is not indicative of the hobby!" with "Actual Play podcasts edit their episodes!" and they weren't the same problem. Or "problem" I suppose.
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Feb 6, 2019 23:25
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Dawgstar posted:There seemed to be an odd tangent that arose with "Critical Role is not indicative of the hobby!" with "Actual Play podcasts edit their episodes!" and they weren't the same problem. Or "problem" I suppose. Yeah, they were two different things that got blurred together a bit. With a side of "certain actual play podcasts totally ignore the rules of the game basically all the time"
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Feb 7, 2019 02:52
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Jimbozig posted:Yeah, they were two different things that got blurred together a bit. With a side of "certain actual play podcasts totally ignore the rules of the game basically all the time" Hey if they are playing D&D that isn't so far from reality.
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Feb 7, 2019 02:55
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Kai Tave posted:Yeah, the writing was on the wall that Patreon would inevitably do something real dumb the last time they did something real dumb which cost a bunch of people a chunk of their patrons. That's not an "I told you so" but I imagine everyone who was affected last time has given more than a moment's thought as to a migration strategy should they break stuff in a more serious way next time. Patreon's CEO has responded https://twitter.com/jackconte/status/1093223206805106688 Basically, I think Patreon will create new *optional* services for creators to generate more income. I'd love to see better merch fulfillment/POD integration. I'm sure there will be more services as well.
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Feb 7, 2019 08:46
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clockworkjoe posted:Patreon's CEO has responded so Dan's assertion is valid, only that the geometric economies of scale are diminished by need for real life support so the solution is a ton of new features, that a) don't actually use the economies of scale and b) very likely all need even more support
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Feb 7, 2019 10:53
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I'll be honest if they could get POD and merch support integration I could make more money and by extension make them more money.
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Feb 7, 2019 17:48
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clockworkjoe posted:Patreon's CEO has responded New services require capital to start up. This means either extracting greater funding from the current customer base or going further into hock to VC companies who expect year on year rate of return increases, not just repayment with interest. A whole lot of independent creative industry workers rely on them not loving this up to be able to stay in business.
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Feb 7, 2019 20:02
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5% is already highway robbery for a service that basically hosts blogs with links to paypal on them.
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Feb 7, 2019 20:33
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:5% is already highway robbery for a service that basically hosts blogs with links to paypal on them. Please don't give away the secret sauce.
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Feb 7, 2019 20:47
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:5% is already highway robbery for a service that basically hosts blogs with links to paypal on them.
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Feb 7, 2019 20:52
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Elephant Parade posted:It also handles payment processing, doesn't it? Most processors take a much higher cut from independent artists, from what I know. Also as a podcaster I find their RSS feed indispensable. It's customized per donor to give patrons content their donation level unlocks. Since I make three bonus shows to be distributed at various pledge levels among 800 donors my model really relies on that thing. theironjef fucked around with this message at 21:58 on Feb 7, 2019 |
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Feb 7, 2019 21:55
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Elephant Parade posted:It also handles payment processing, doesn't it? Most processors take a much higher cut from independent artists, from what I know. theironjef posted:Also as a podcaster I find their RSS feed indispensable. It's customized per donor to give patrons content their donation level unlocks. Since I make three bonus shows to be distributed at various pledge levels among 800 donors my model really relies on that thing. A patreon-like service that just did at-cost payment processing and charged the bare minimum to keep the lights on would be a pretty cool charity. Instead of paying creative folks like a patron of the arts, they facilitate thousands of other people paying artists they like, a huge bump in leverage for relatively little initial effort. Jeffrey of YOSPOS fucked around with this message at 22:12 on Feb 7, 2019 |
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Feb 7, 2019 22:09
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clockworkjoe posted:Patreon's CEO has responded "Nuh uh, Dan is wrong, also a fuckin' Kushner is the nicest sweetest person on earth, you should definitely take the things I say seriously" Like I don't see anything in that rant against criticism except, "It's HARD you guys, and it's COMPLICATED!" as if those things somehow invalidate the critique?
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Feb 7, 2019 22:16
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Someone posted this in reply to Dan's post which made me laugh. https://twitter.com/Campster/status/1093350745133498369
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Feb 7, 2019 22:38
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But why? What the hell is Patreon spending their money on? Hosting doesn't cost 5%, and I don't think they go heavy into ad buy, so where does the money go?
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Feb 7, 2019 23:53
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did you read his thread at all? It sounds like by far his biggest costs are customer support and international compliance oh and fraud detection/prevention Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 00:05 on Feb 8, 2019 |
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Feb 8, 2019 00:03
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All of those things are also true of credit cards, which take a smaller cut and provide more services.
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Feb 8, 2019 01:01
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