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Plutonis posted:Lol. Is there a magic white hood for wizards? No it's one of those D20 games that does away with magic and then just shrugs when players wonder how healing is supposed to work now. (disclosure I read the D20 version, I think there were more?) Also the D20 classes were astonishingly boring. Like, they don't have magic and they couldn't think of much of anything for the classes to actually do, so for example the Dino Rider class is just 20 levels of minor skill bonuses and the occasional bonus feat from a list. And you'll need those bonuses, because the difficulties to train, bust, and ride big dinosaurs are laughably too high. Like, this game had no thought in it whatsoever. It was just "What if the South never lost and also they were great and blaaaargh basic D20 bullshit." theironjef fucked around with this message at 05:15 on Feb 8, 2019 |
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Feb 8, 2019 05:13
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Well now I guess I need to make a game for playing Space Cowboys on a Planet of Dinosaurs that isn't Confederate apologia, anyone got any good suggestions for a name for it?* *would probably use an OSR system for the rules if that helps
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Feb 8, 2019 05:15
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drrockso20 posted:
There you go.
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Feb 8, 2019 05:17
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drrockso20 posted:Well now I guess I need to make a game for playing Space Cowboys on a Planet of Dinosaurs that isn't Confederate apologia, anyone got any good suggestions for a name for it?* Big Dino Rustlas
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Feb 8, 2019 05:17
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Also nothing wrong with Tyrannosaurus Tex.
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Feb 8, 2019 05:19
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theironjef posted:There you go. It would work, but it's a little too on the nose Plutonis posted:Big Dino Rustlas This one has potential, I'll keep it in mind theironjef posted:Also nothing wrong with Tyrannosaurus Tex. True a good pun is always useful
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Feb 8, 2019 05:21
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At least the 2017 Dinosaur Crawl Classics explicitly has the players taking the roles of velociraptors, and fighting against the plantation owners and oppressors. Also you get to be a velociraptor. So....
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Feb 8, 2019 05:43
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Liquid Communism posted:SR5 doubled down on the wireless too, making all consumer goods including military grade firearms and cyberware brick able by anyone with a deck, wirelessly. Desiden posted:Or "if I hack their wireless reflexes, can I make them a puppet and/or just shut down their nervous system?" It is 100% rad as hell to be able to go "I hack his CYBERGUN" and there should absolutely be a lot of shenanigans that deckers can get up to in the future of our god awful Internet of poo poo. The problem isn't the concept, the problem is the amount of crunch Shadowrun always somehow demands that fucks up everything. The problem is the game still a) steadfastly refuses to consider that the PCs and NPCs should be different, and b) steadfastly continues to listen to the dumbest people possible who continuously demand a setting that somehow adheres to their batshit insane libertarian fantasies of super efficient and flawless corps that never gently caress up. Shadowrun hacking doesn't work because it's just not dumb enough. We live in a current world where literal secret bases have been discovered because phones cannot and will not stop desperately cataloging and broadcasting everyone's personal information. In the Shadowrun universe at least one secret base would've absolutely been discovered because it was constantly broadcasting the scientists' eating habits to best figure out what commercials to play for them.
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Feb 8, 2019 05:54
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dwarf74 posted:At least the 2017 Dinosaur Crawl Classics explicitly has the players taking the roles of velociraptors, and fighting against the plantation owners and oppressors. Definitely going to have to include rules to play as Raptors and T Rex's in my idea if it ever gets anywhere
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Feb 8, 2019 05:56
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ProfessorCirno posted:It is 100% rad as hell to be able to go "I hack his CYBERGUN" and there should absolutely be a lot of shenanigans that deckers can get up to in the future of our god awful Internet of poo poo. The problem isn't the concept, the problem is the amount of crunch Shadowrun always somehow demands that fucks up everything. The problem is the game still a) steadfastly refuses to consider that the PCs and NPCs should be different, and b) steadfastly continues to listen to the dumbest people possible who continuously demand a setting that somehow adheres to their batshit insane libertarian fantasies of super efficient and flawless corps that never gently caress up. Shadowrun hacking doesn't work because it's just not dumb enough. We live in a current world where literal secret bases have been discovered because phones cannot and will not stop desperately cataloging and broadcasting everyone's personal information. In the Shadowrun universe at least one secret base would've absolutely been discovered because it was constantly broadcasting the scientists' eating habits to best figure out what commercials to play for them. 110%. Then they went even further in the wrong direction and wrote in stuff like the Foundation, which is effectively The Cloud With Technomagic. Or solved the rules issue where the solution to being hacked was to carry a bag of RFID chips because you had to pick one Running Silent icon nearby at random to test against when trying to find a hidden icon, so flooding the area made that useless... by making people explicitly able to filter RFID chips. "There was a brief time when hackers thought they could confuse security by flooding hosts with dozens of rfid chips running silent, but once they figured out demiGODs knew enough to design their scans to screen for icons that were running silent and were not rfid chips the days of that trick were numbered." Ten nanoseconds later every Decker on the planet reformatted their buddies' guns to claim they were RFID chips when queried.
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Feb 8, 2019 08:13
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drrockso20 posted:Definitely going to have to include rules to play as Raptors and T Rex's in my idea if it ever gets anywhere In that case, you should use 'Tyrannosaurus Tex' as a name for a sentient, gun slingin', rootin'-tootin' T-Rex NPC.
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Feb 8, 2019 10:16
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Rid posted:In that case, you should use 'Tyrannosaurus Tex' as a name for a sentient, gun slingin', rootin'-tootin' T-Rex NPC. I'd probably be taking one of the actual good ideas Broncosaurus Rex had by treating T Rex's as being the local equivalent to Dragons, complete with having Age/Size categories and funky powers, so yeah the T Rex npc might not be able to use a gun due to having no hands, but he can probably breathe fire or lightning, or possibly even shoot mind bullets* at people, and that's going outside what they can do normally *I'd probably reflavor them as being various forms of psychic powers and various space technologies and what have you, but the actual rules would probably just be the standard D&D/OSR magic rules, since I have yet to see a Psionics ruleset that works better than that
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Feb 8, 2019 10:28
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drrockso20 posted:Well now I guess I need to make a game for playing Space Cowboys on a Planet of Dinosaurs that isn't Confederate apologia, anyone got any good suggestions for a name for it?* Longhorns & Longnecks. The West Before Time. Gunslingers of the Cretaceous. Sixty-Five Million Yeehaws Ago. Justice Rides a Raptor. Dinos in the Vineyard. Or go for some media tie-ins. Gwangi the Role-Playing Game. Flesh the Role-Playing Game.
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Feb 8, 2019 11:53
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I -think- Flesh may actually be getting a sourcebook as part of the same 2000 AD RPG license that brought the Judge Dread game? Or at least that's the impression I was left with.
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Feb 8, 2019 12:23
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Sleestaks provide a relatively good replacement for the Native Peoples your heroes will displace and destroy as they spread west on Dino planet.
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Feb 8, 2019 13:49
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remusclaw posted:Sleestaks provide a relatively good replacement for the Native Peoples your heroes will displace and destroy as they spread west on Dino planet. y i k e s Care to rethink that one?
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Feb 8, 2019 14:00
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It was meant to a statement on how lovely pretty much all our Western myth is in actuality, but I suppose I was not blatantly sarcastic enough. Too late now, I'm quoted.
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Feb 8, 2019 14:04
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Fuego Fish posted:y i k e s Excuse me while I polish my skull and calliper collection.
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Feb 8, 2019 14:05
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Pretty much all the adventure aspect of Western stories is tied up in the same sort of colonialism as the stories of the British Empire at it's height, only the accent changes. I suppose there is room for outlaw characters, but I mean, what makes it a Western if you strip out all the bad poo poo, cowboy hats? The Confederacy, pointed out earlier as the reason for not playing the game that started this conversation isn't somehow inherently worse as a protagonist than the people who decided their money was going to be found in the pursuit of gold and land at the expense of the Native People. They both suck a lot. Also sleestaks are reptile people from the Land of the Lost, or was that name stolen from somewhere else? They pretty much exist ripped straight from that in Chrono Trigger as the Reptites. Old school Western's wallow in the bad and pretend that it is good, but new school Western's didn't shift focus to telling different stories, they still wallow in the bad, they just point out that the protagonists are bad people now while doing it. remusclaw fucked around with this message at 14:20 on Feb 8, 2019 |
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Feb 8, 2019 14:11
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remusclaw posted:It was meant to a statement on how lovely pretty much all our Western myth is in actuality, but I suppose I was not blatantly sarcastic enough. Too late now, I'm quoted.
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Feb 8, 2019 15:33
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I still think a space hillbilly game would whip the llama's rear end.
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Feb 8, 2019 15:38
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theironjef posted:No it's one of those D20 games that does away with magic and then just shrugs when players wonder how healing is supposed to work now. (disclosure I read the D20 version, I think there were more?) I've often thought that if you want to swiftly identify if a game is lovely or not, head straight to the healing rules.
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Feb 8, 2019 16:01
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Sometimes 'obvious sarcasm' is actually indistinguishable from 'actual terrible suggestions that people make without any reflection.'
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Feb 8, 2019 16:04
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remusclaw have you just not watched many westerns?
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Feb 8, 2019 16:07
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Can't hear tone in text, need to relearn that periodically. Adventurers are awful people in general. Most RPG's try to get around that by distancing in game adventure from the historical context of what it is based on. Western's are too close to our own time and context to really be fully divorced from the historical baggage. There is a general habit of downplaying the colonialism of the time while vocally decrying what the South was doing, but both were awful tragedies and the victims of westward expansion and American chattel slavery are still suffering from the aftereffects of the time. Terrible Opinions posted:remusclaw have you just not watched many westerns? I mainlined Turner Classic Movies for years. I also had a period where I got into revisionist Westerns and Spaghetti Westerns. The good people in those movies are the victims, not the protagonists.
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Feb 8, 2019 16:13
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irony is difficult to convey across all mediums
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Feb 8, 2019 16:19
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A whole lot of cowboys were also victims of western expansion and also chattel slavery, since while you generally hear of only one or two more famous names like Nat Love, there were a lot of them who were either ex-slaves or Tejanos (who basically had the US form around them without their consent after Texas joined the union.) Hollywood and popular fiction whitewash a -lot-.
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Feb 8, 2019 16:21
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Howard Zinn's Deadlands
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Feb 8, 2019 16:28
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unseenlibrarian posted:A whole lot of cowboys were also victims of western expansion and also chattel slavery, since while you generally hear of only one or two more famous names like Nat Love, there were a lot of them who were either ex-slaves or Tejanos (who basically had the US form around them without their consent after Texas joined the union.) Hollywood and popular fiction whitewash a -lot-. Absolutely. What do we have in American film that takes the perspective of the colonized instead of the colonizer in that time frame? Tarantino's Django and Mel "shithead" Gibson's Apocalypto? We have had the occasional guilt film like Dances With Wolves, but that had to go with the White Savior thing. There are some exploitation films from the 60s and 70s that actually tell stories about Black outlaws, but they can hardly be called mainstream Hollywood.
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Feb 8, 2019 16:29
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Gort posted:I've often thought that if you want to swiftly identify if a game is lovely or not, head straight to the Fighter class
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Feb 8, 2019 16:33
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remusclaw posted:I mainlined Turner Classic Movies for years. I also had a period where I got into revisionist Westerns and Spaghetti Westerns. The good people in those movies are the victims, not the protagonists.
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Feb 8, 2019 16:35
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remusclaw posted:Absolutely. What do we have in American film that takes the perspective of the colonized instead of the colonizer in that time frame? Tarantino's Django and Mel "shithead" Gibson's Apocalypto? We have had the occasional guilt film like Dances With Wolves, but that had to go with the White Savior thing. There are some exploitation films from the 60s and 70s that actually tell stories about Black outlaws, but they can hardly be called mainstream Hollywood. I'd say Apocalypto is on a different time frame than Django Unchained and it never deals with Colonialism except for like what, the last 10 seconds?
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Feb 8, 2019 16:35
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Terrible Opinions posted:Well good then, because it should be pretty obvious that what's left after you get rid of all the colonialism in westerns is basically just modern wilderness fiction. Which there shouldn't be any real objection to. Playing as and telling stories about the people displaced by the expansion of the United States and seeking refuge in the relative lawness/freedom of the west still has value. Just you know acknowledge that most of those people were mexicans, ex-slaves displaced natives, or the various sub-whites from back when white didn't include all Europeans. Which is absolutely a good and interesting idea, but it is pretty much completely divorced from the traditional Western narrative. Plutonis posted:I'd say Apocalypto is on a different time frame than Django Unchained and it never deals with Colonialism except for like what, the last 10 seconds? And yeah Apocalypto was a reach, I was looking for any examples, and would be very very early on the colonialist time frame when it comes to the Americas. I also have to admit I didn't watch it because, well, Mel Gibson.
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Feb 8, 2019 16:37
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remusclaw posted:Absolutely. What do we have in American film that takes the perspective of the colonized instead of the colonizer in that time frame? Tarantino's Django and Mel "shithead" Gibson's Apocalypto? We have had the occasional guilt film like Dances With Wolves, but that had to go with the White Savior thing. There are some exploitation films from the 60s and 70s that actually tell stories about Black outlaws, but they can hardly be called mainstream Hollywood.
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Feb 8, 2019 16:40
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I'd argue that there are plenty of Westerns that do deal in those ideas, but just have that unfortunate habit of turning the protagonists white because America and Italy are really racist, and they're making most of the movies. I remember some better black and white Mexican productions from my college movie station, but it'll take some digging to get the titles for examples.
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Feb 8, 2019 16:40
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Seriously though someone should :just post: a thread about game metaplots because I would like to read some of the convoluted backstories of tabletop settings and Wikipedia can only get me so far. And yes I could find the old world of darkness books and read them all but a cliff notes version with funny commentary is much more my jam
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Feb 8, 2019 16:44
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Len posted:Seriously though someone should :just post: a thread about game metaplots because I would like to read some of the convoluted backstories of tabletop settings and Wikipedia can only get me so far. It would make for a pretty fun podcast. Like a dollop but for RPG's.
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Feb 8, 2019 16:44
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remusclaw posted:It would make for a pretty fun podcast. Like a dollop but for RPG's. RPPR tried to do this for World of Darkness, complete with their own Gary analogue, right up until the time WoD went full fash and it wasn't funny anymore
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Feb 8, 2019 16:47
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I'd try to do it for SR but the metaplot is so dense there that it takes a timeline with a wiki attached.
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Feb 8, 2019 16:53
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If you want to play Dino Adventures without the horrible Confederate apologia but with the bad d20 mechanics there's always Monte Cook's Predation, a game where time travelers from a megacorp get trapped in the Cretaceous when the time bridge collapses and they're left to scavenge functional supertech and deal with the gengineered dinos they made. Can you play as a wizard-like character and be the best possible character available? Yes, yes you can!
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Feb 8, 2019 17:10
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