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Arban posted:I'm assuming those people just pretend songs like Rise of evil, Final solution and Wermacht dont exist ?
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Feb 8, 2019 19:05
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Cyrano4747 posted:It’s at the other end from the downtown stuff and across a bridge but do yourself a favor and go see then USS Constitution. We walked the whole freedom trail all the way there, and it was definitely worth it. I'm not sure if it's still under remodeling though.
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Feb 8, 2019 19:12
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Siivola posted:What part of those songs do you think a Nazi would object to? The openly anti-Nazi message? The description of Nazis as fools who bought into the lies of a madman ?
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Feb 8, 2019 19:14
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Siivola posted:Larry Thorne the SS Green Beret There's a dude who should have been shot for treason.
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Feb 8, 2019 19:28
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EvilMerlin posted:Not a fun day for it. Pouring and chilly here... It’s a great day for it! I’m from Florida so I rarely get a chance to adventure in the cold.
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Feb 8, 2019 19:29
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Cyrano4747 posted:It’s at the other end from the downtown stuff and across a bridge but do yourself a favor and go see then USS Constitution. closed right now iirc for renovations
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Feb 8, 2019 19:29
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chitoryu12 posted:It’s a great day for it! I’m from Florida so I rarely get a chance to adventure in the cold.
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Feb 8, 2019 19:33
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Arban posted:The openly anti-Nazi message? The description of Nazis as fools who bought into the lies of a madman ?
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Feb 8, 2019 19:37
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Is Bolt Thrower still ok?
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Feb 8, 2019 19:39
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:closed right now iirc for renovations looks like that was 2015-2017, but it was still open for tours (was there in March 2016)
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Feb 8, 2019 19:42
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Schadenboner posted:Is Bolt Thrower still ok? Only if you're a Heretic. 
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Feb 8, 2019 19:44
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Siivola posted:Nazi Punks gently caress Off has an openly anti-Nazi message. Sabaton's songs are basically a History Channel take you can headbang to. They have a metal song about ice road truckers? Jokes aside, much like the history channel a bunch of the people who are into them enough for it to come up conversationally have some unfortunate views of the German military at the very least. Plus general idealization of military service and military sacrifice in a pretty awkward way. The 50 year old guy who watches old history channel shows non stop and thinks most Germans were just fighting to protect their country and that it’s fine to appreciate the military prowess of the Wehrmacht absent any other context is a pretty apt comparison actually.
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Feb 8, 2019 19:46
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Siivola posted:a History Channel take you can headbang to. Fair. I still hold that they have a lot more songs about Nazis getting there asses kicked than the other way around, and that Neo-Nazis are idiots.
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Feb 8, 2019 19:47
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Schadenboner posted:Is Bolt Thrower still ok?  I don't mean to say Sabaton are bad or anything, I'm just pushing back at the notion that their songs are explicitly anti-Nazi. I don't think they are, especially considering how the modern alt-right seems to really relish the whole "dark enlightenment" rooting-for-the-villain poo poo where it's 100% fine to be a lying madman as long as you ~keep the trains running on time~ In case you're wondering, yeah, I actually do feel incredibly awkward listening to music with even remotely violent lyrics. 
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Feb 8, 2019 19:52
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The YouTube algorithm certainly seems to associate Sabaton with nazi-friendly stuff, because any time I look up one of their songs I get a bunch of "Ben Shapiro DESTROYS SJW athiest at Burger King drive through" style recommendations and have to delete my viewing history. But from a metal standpoint Sabaton is crap even before you get to their open courting of fascists. It's too upbeat for the content, a bunch of sanitized power metal lyrics about how cool war is and so on, set to a pop metal beat. It just doesn't fit at all. Compare and contrast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vRFKmSpDP4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2tGZeo4Or8 And despite doing a concept album about Rommel, I recall seeing a translated interview from some German metal magazine/blog with the lead guy from Hail of Bullets where he said that right-wing metalheads are ruining the scene and that they can "lick my rear end crosswise."
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Feb 8, 2019 19:58
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C.M. Kruger posted:And despite doing a concept album about Rommel, I recall seeing a translated interview from some German metal magazine/blog with the lead guy from Hail of Bullets where he said that right-wing metalheads are ruining the scene and that they can "lick my rear end crosswise."
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Feb 8, 2019 20:03
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Uhh you guys didn’t tell me there’s a hilariously gaudy museum of the Ancient and Honorable Artillery Company of Massachusetts here.  
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Feb 8, 2019 20:05
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Cyrano4747 posted:They have a similar rep in the US. Maybe the dudes are fine but most of the people I’ve run into who liked them enough for me to be aware of it were a bit too into the military prowess of the totally-not-genocidal Wehrmacht. The weird pseudo music nazis effect other bands too. Rammstein got so pissed at them they more or less made a song essentially stating 'we lean to the left, go away'.
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Feb 8, 2019 20:09
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Re: Sabaton. This masterpiece (and I'm serious, it's brilliant excluding the lyrics) of powermetal: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHeRnaWMtDk Chosen subject matter: The one king in  closest connected with neoshit. We have Charles XII statues etc (no biggie etc). But that's where the skinheads started to lay down wreathes etc back in the eighties, celebrating the glory of whatthefuck who got himself killed and hosed everything up. And Sabaton thought it was a really good idea do do a themesong about that. But hey they have done a lot of songs about everything but they earn good money from the politically brown spectrum. That might not have been a problem if not another Swedish punkneofaschband hadn't been big in early 90s with songs celebrating Karl XII. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvNh7QYgAzo Charles XII, a beardless thundergod etc... You can guess the rest. Again catchy and very nationalistic. So there's a precedence for nationalistic bands doing XII songs and maybe Sabaton are better than that, I don't know. But I'm pretty sure a lot of the fan base are pretty poo poo.
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Feb 8, 2019 20:12
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Cessna posted:Any time, I'm always happy to talk about crappy uniforms made for bad people. So when we getting good/bad uniform stuff for the US/British/Commonwealth/Soviet side of things? I love weird/crazy/dumb uniform talk.
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Feb 8, 2019 20:13
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InAndOutBrennan posted:We have Charles XII statues etc (no biggie etc). But that's where the skinheads started to lay down wreathes etc back in the eighties, celebrating the glory of whatthefuck who got himself killed and hosed everything up.
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Feb 8, 2019 20:38
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SeanBeansShako posted:So when we getting good/bad uniform stuff for the US/British/Commonwealth/Soviet side of things?
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Feb 8, 2019 20:39
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I was there for that post.
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Feb 8, 2019 20:40
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HEY GUNS posted:wasn't charles XII really really super gay Probably. But that has never stopped nazis from naziing, has it?
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Feb 8, 2019 20:50
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InAndOutBrennan posted:Probably. But that has never stopped nazis from naziing, has it? 
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Feb 8, 2019 20:53
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:closed right now iirc for renovations I’m Googling and can’t find anything online saying it’s closed. It says it reopened in September 2017 and isn’t expected to need restoration for another 20 years.
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Feb 8, 2019 21:07
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https://twitter.com/SimonMaloy/status/1093929417833963520 Ah yes the Nazis, who never did anything bad until they went beyond the German borders. Oh this was spoken by a black woman.
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Feb 8, 2019 21:14
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C.M. Kruger posted:And despite doing a concept album about Rommel, I recall seeing a translated interview from some German metal magazine/blog with the lead guy from Hail of Bullets where he said that right-wing metalheads are ruining the scene and that they can "lick my rear end crosswise." They've also done the Russian Front/Great Patriotic War (first half of the album is "German" songs (Ordered Eastward, etc.) second half is "Soviet" songs (Night Witches, etc.) and an album on WWII in the Pacific.
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Feb 8, 2019 21:16
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HEY GUNS posted:i mean step one is it didn't occur to the ussr to issue the right underwear to one third of their army, or however many women were in it You've read Unwomanly Face of War, I hope?
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Feb 8, 2019 21:18
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Cessna posted:You've read Unwomanly Face of War, I hope? it was especially interesting to me because it gave a look at how cis women experienced combat, which--let's be honest--most people in history who dressed as men to fight probably weren't. quote:Taissia Petrovna Rudenko-Sheveleva HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Feb 8, 2019 |
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Feb 8, 2019 21:32
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zoux posted:https://twitter.com/SimonMaloy/status/1093929417833963520 setting aside everything else about that  wasn't one of NSDAP's central tenets expansion for more land for German peoples, and integration of German peoples in other lands into Germany?
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Feb 8, 2019 21:32
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The fact that Sabaton did an entire album about the Great Power period that at first impression sounds like a white nationalist masturbatory fantasy probably hasn’t improved their image either. There’s supposedly some nuance to it, but lol if you think nazi fucks will ever realize that.
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Feb 8, 2019 21:38
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HEY GUNS posted:ya Interesting perspective, thanks. I'll admit my up front that cis-straight-male perspective gives me a blind spot there.
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Feb 8, 2019 21:42
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Cessna posted:Interesting perspective, thanks. Or you know, look how proud that naval officer is for finding a handsome husband, and for being a mother and grandmother. These are all womens' things they're doing, they're just doing them in an overwhelmingly male environment. They're pushing against a wind and sometimes it pisses them off. Which is very different from someone who's trying to blend seamlessly into that environment. HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 22:51 on Feb 8, 2019 |
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Feb 8, 2019 21:47
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Fangz posted:They must be very confident in their logistics chain... I think this was from Western reports on Soviet training and military doctrine, possibly from an older training manual, but I definitely at one point read that supposedly their training emphasized the importance of foraging for soldiers and that soldiers were to be made to understand that in actual warfare the supply of military equipment, such as ammo, guns and vehicles would be prioritized to the possible exclusion of all other supplies. HEY GUNS posted:ya It's not quite the same, but I recently listened to a pretty extensive series of lectures about the American Civil War and supposedly it wasn't too uncommon during that war for prostitutes t infiltrate army units dressed as soldiers to do their business. Though apparently it often went much further than that with the women staying with the soldiers for extended periods, marching, working and even fighting together with them. Randarkman fucked around with this message at 22:05 on Feb 8, 2019 |
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Feb 8, 2019 22:03
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I believe Sabaton deliberately decided to stop writing songs glorifying the Wehrmacht after like... three albums? because they didn't want to give off the wrong message. But, ultimately, they just like war stuff and approach it with a child-like innocence and naivety that lends itself to really shallow approaches to the source material and celebrations ignorant of the more complicated situations surrounding conflicts. (Like Counterstrike.) In MilHist terms, they're the guys who really like Panthers and Tigers. Not Nazis, nor really inclined to support Nazis in any way, but you look at all the other people who started off with "Panthers and Tigers are so cool!" and ended up owning a worrying number of authentic SS uniforms and it's only natural to get cold feet. (At the same time I'm really reluctant to just abandon huge swathes of interesting military history just because a bunch of fuckers decided to like it. That gives them the ability to control the pop-cultural dialogue on the topic, and I don't want to let a bunch of Nazis stop me from taking an interest in opens envelope ...the Rhodesian Bush War? Never mind. Forget everything I said.)
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Feb 8, 2019 22:10
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Got a question regarding swords. Why did people make flamberge type swords? Simply bragging fashion?
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Feb 8, 2019 22:25
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Randarkman posted:It's not quite the same, but I recently listened to a pretty extensive series of lectures about the American Civil War and supposedly it wasn't too uncommon during that war for prostitutes t infiltrate army units dressed as soldiers to do their business. Though apparently it often went much further than that with the women staying with the soldiers for extended periods, marching, working and even fighting together with them.
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Feb 8, 2019 22:26
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SeanBeansShako posted:The weird pseudo music nazis effect other bands too. Rammstein got so pissed at them they more or less made a song essentially stating 'we lean to the left, go away'. lol, which one. It's been forever since I listened to them.
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Feb 8, 2019 22:34
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Randarkman posted:It's not quite the same, but I recently listened to a pretty extensive series of lectures about the American Civil War and supposedly it wasn't too uncommon during that war for prostitutes t infiltrate army units dressed as soldiers to do their business. There's a long history of women going to war with an army, often in what would now be characterized as Logistics jobs - selling food, washing laundry, mending or making clothes, etc. It is distressing to see how quickly male historians tack on "and they were prostitutes" to any description of them. Undoubtedly some were, but at the same time it seems more than a bit presumptively misogynist to assume that this was universal. No, I am NOT saying you did this.
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Feb 8, 2019 22:36
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