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B-Nasty
May 25, 2005

The core of some of those old furnaces can last a drat long time, especially with some basic maintenance. I'm rocking a 20 year-old Thermopride oil furnace, that used a 13 gauge, copper coated heat exchanger, that will easily outlast every other part on there. The flame chamber is also sturdy and easy to replace.

Problem is, much like an old car, it starts to make less sense to continually fix them by replacing parts bit by bit as they wear out. Parts are generally pretty cheap, but if you aren't doing the work yourself, paying $300 in labor + part every time something craps out starts to make a few thousand for a new unit seem like a good decision. Also like driving an old clunker, odds are, it's going to break right when you need it the most. The more modern units also use very thin/cheap materials for the heat exchanger, and once that develops a hole, it's game over.

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Pigsfeet on Rye
Oct 22, 2008

I'm meat on the hoof
All true! I was glad to replace mine with a System 2000, went from using 3.5 tanks of fuel per year to about one every 9 months.

Large Hardon Collider
Nov 28, 2005


PARADOL EX FAN CLUB
Thanks folks. It would have been nice to make it through the winter, but I guess I can admit it's due for a replacement.

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006

Large Hardon Collider posted:

Thanks folks. It would have been nice to make it through the winter, but I guess I can admit it's due for a replacement.

You should at least give a call to the company that installed it and see if they will warranty it (including labor) which might get you through the winter. 4 months is very short. You can always sweaten the pot on it if they balk by having them quote you a replacement "but you really need a month or two to get the money together" (and 2 more bids.)

Tomarse
Mar 7, 2001

Grr



I am trying to sort out a problem with a UPVC door in a conservatory with a single double glazed glass unit it. It looks like this:


It has a multi-point euro-lock in it which has 2 bolts and a hook in addition to the main latch. Like the middle image here:


The main gearbox assembly is stuck in the key-locked position (I assume it has broken inside and has jammed itself up). Unfortunately the door is also closed and obviously will not open!

I have bought a replacement gearbox assembly for it.

It now has no lock barrel in and I have removed the handle assembly.

The door and conservatory are old and it has quite a bit of play in it so i can lever it open slightly and see the hook and latches. I cannot however trip them as the gearbox is locked up.

It looks like my options are:
-Cut the hinges and hope that I can then wiggle the door it about enough to lift the hook latch out of its keeper (replacement hinges would only cost around £20 for a set). I have to cut them rather than simply removing the pins as there are security grub screws that hold the hinge pins in and can only be accessed when the door is open..
-Remove the glass (it just clips out from the inside) and use my angle grinder to cut through to the gearbox assembly from the inside of the UPVC frame via a section that is normally hidden by the glass.
Then use my grinder to destroy the gearbox assembly as much as possible so that I can hopefully move the latches without destroying any other parts of the assembly or door.

Has anybody ever taken the hinges off a locked UPVC door? - this probably looks like the cleanest option - but will I be able to move it around enough inside the door frame to disengage the latches and hook?

Tomarse fucked around with this message at 23:38 on Feb 9, 2019

Jaded Burnout
Jul 10, 2004


Tomarse posted:

The door and conservatory are old and it has quite a bit of play in it so i can lever it open slightly and see the hook and latches. I cannot however trip them as the gearbox is locked up.

Is there enough space to cut them? Depending on exactly how the door fits I don't think you'd be able to take it out even if you removed the hinges; mine at least have metal latches on the hinge side which are passive, they just slot into holders when the door closes, but mean you have to swing the door open, you can't pull it out laterally.

Also, the way those things work (as I'm sure you know by this point) is some travelling metal bars pushed and pulled by the gearbox to activate the hooks and latches, so if the gearbox is seized and/or deadlocked, if you could cut those bars between the hooks and the gearbox you'd be able to push them manually and at least disengage the top and bottom hooks, then maybe force or cut the main latch and bolt.

I'm guessing you've already sprayed the gearbox full of WD40?

Jaded Burnout fucked around with this message at 07:06 on Feb 10, 2019

tetrapyloctomy
Feb 18, 2003

Okay -- you talk WAY too fast.
Nap Ghost

Tomarse posted:

I am trying to sort out a problem with a UPVC door in a conservatory with a single double glazed glass unit it. It looks like this:


Detcord.

Tomarse
Mar 7, 2001

Grr



Jaded Burnout posted:

Is there enough space to cut them? Depending on exactly how the door fits I don't think you'd be able to take it out even if you removed the hinges; mine at least have metal latches on the hinge side which are passive, they just slot into holders when the door closes, but mean you have to swing the door open, you can't pull it out laterally.

Also, the way those things work (as I'm sure you know by this point) is some travelling metal bars pushed and pulled by the gearbox to activate the hooks and latches, so if the gearbox is seized and/or deadlocked, if you could cut those bars between the hooks and the gearbox you'd be able to push them manually and at least disengage the top and bottom hooks, then maybe force or cut the main latch and bolt.

I'm guessing you've already sprayed the gearbox full of WD40?

I don't think this has anything on the hinge side. Its old and likely was a cheap model back when it was new.

I've just checked all the doors in my house and none of them do anything on the hinge side either. It would definitely make sense to have something there though - I suspect you have used higher quality doors in your house! ;)


The hinges are like this on the outside of the door, so I should be able to get through them with a couple of 1mm metal cutting disks. Sorry they were concealed in the picture i posted but they are not on this door!
Actual door:


I think the gearbox was stiff for a while and you could feel it stopping at a point which you could force it past if you wiggled it back and forth a bit. Having now watched a couple of videos on youtube I suspect something has broken off inside and is now jamming it up. I don't think WD40 is going to help it - and i'm not sure I could get it in there while the door is shut. It probably would have helped if it was done earlier!

Yeah - I have also considered drilling right through the flat bars from the inside (after taking the glass out) such that I could manually disengage it - but then we are left having to buy new bars too.

Annoyingly I have had a nearly complete old UPVC door stashed in my yard for approx 5-10 years which only recently got skipped.

Tomarse fucked around with this message at 15:12 on Feb 10, 2019

baquerd
Jul 2, 2007

by FactsAreUseless

B-Nasty posted:

The core of some of those old furnaces can last a drat long time, especially with some basic maintenance. I'm rocking a 20 year-old Thermopride oil furnace, that used a 13 gauge, copper coated heat exchanger, that will easily outlast every other part on there. The flame chamber is also sturdy and easy to replace.

Problem is, much like an old car, it starts to make less sense to continually fix them by replacing parts bit by bit as they wear out. Parts are generally pretty cheap, but if you aren't doing the work yourself, paying $300 in labor + part every time something craps out starts to make a few thousand for a new unit seem like a good decision. Also like driving an old clunker, odds are, it's going to break right when you need it the most. The more modern units also use very thin/cheap materials for the heat exchanger, and once that develops a hole, it's game over.

Also, if you have air conditioning using old R-22 coolant, you may have noticed that poo poo has gone super expensive. It will soon be banned and impossible to obtain legally. This led me to get a entirely new HVAC system when our furnace blower went.

Jaded Burnout
Jul 10, 2004


Tomarse posted:

The hinges are like this on the outside of the door, so I should be able to get through them with a couple of 1mm metal cutting disks. Sorry they were concealed in the picture i posted but they are not on this door!

Sorry I meant is there enough clearance when pried open that you could cut the hooks?

Tomarse posted:

I think the gearbox was stiff for a while and you could feel it stopping at a point which you could force it past if you wiggled it back and forth a bit. Having now watched a couple of videos on youtube I suspect something has broken off inside and is now jamming it up. I don't think WD40 is going to help it - and i'm not sure I could get it in there while the door is shut. It probably would have helped if it was done earlier!

If you take the door handle off you might be able to find a bit of an opening to spray some in, but as you say may well be totally broken.

Tomarse posted:

Yeah - I have also considered drilling right through the flat bars from the inside (after taking the glass out) such that I could manually disengage it - but then we are left having to buy new bars too.

Depending on the manufacture you may have to do this anyway. The one I've just bought a replacement for is sold as a full set; bars, gearbox, hooks, the whole 9 yards as there's no screws to remove parts from the whole, it's all factory riveted.

Also to answer your original question, looking at that photo I'm not sure there would be enough wiggle room if you removed the hinges. There'd have to be enough slop in all the pieces to allow you to swing the door open partly, pull it left far enough for the bolts to leave the keeps AND lift it to clear the hook from its keep. All without hitting the wall.

How much would a replacement frame cost? In my case (which is really the only one I have any detailed knowledge of) they're just screwed into the wall from the inside of the frame. Might be cheaper to cut the frame around the latches & bolts and/or around the hinges.

Jaded Burnout fucked around with this message at 15:43 on Feb 10, 2019

peanut
Sep 9, 2007


Paint it and enjoy your new stained glass window!

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006
If you can get access to internals then graphite lube is what you use, wd40 is just going to gum things up more. Can you tell where the lock is bound up? Do the keys work at all?

good jovi
Dec 11, 2000

'm pro-dickgirl, and I VOTE!

I have a weird old house with a very uneven concrete basement floor. The walls are made of a brick-colored sponge, mostly held together by efflorescence at this point. So we get a fair amount of water seeping in when it rains. Most of it tends to find a drain eventually, but not without some pooling, and not all of it.

Is it a thing to dig out drain ditches around the perimeter, filled with rocks or whatever, eventually connected to the actual drain? And does that sound like a thing I could reasonably do myself? I don't actually know what it takes to break through concrete, or how that might affect the integrity of the walls themselves.

Just saying that makes it seem like an even worse idea, but it might help to hear someone else say it.

Tomarse
Mar 7, 2001

Grr



Jaded Burnout posted:

Sorry I meant is there enough clearance when pried open that you could cut the hooks?
There is so much movement in the rest of the conservatory frame that If i lever it with a couple of screwdrivers I can see the hook and latches and if I had a reciprocating saw and lots of blades and time i could get that in there and cut them all (I assume that they are however hard and that this would take a long time).

quote:

Depending on the manufacture you may have to do this anyway. The one I've just bought a replacement for is sold as a full set; bars, gearbox, hooks, the whole 9 yards as there's no screws to remove parts from the whole, it's all factory riveted.

It got stuck in the open position first and I had the whole bars and gearbox assembly out and on the floor which is where i discovered that you could just buy the gearbox for £25 and that it screws on.
While I had it out, it was stuck. Then I dropped it while trying to read the part number off it and it started working again!

I then argued for leaving the door unlocked and just wedging/clamping it shut for the 3 days it would take the replacement part to arrive but it was deemed that the security implications of this (having to lock the inner conservatory door instead) would inconvenience the cats far too much and simply could not be done as they might then have to wait for a human to grant them entry and they might get cold/hungry/bored/have to poop in the litter tray/garden while waiting.

I put it back in with no lock barrel (as i thought the issue might be in-between the bit that the lock barrel pushes and the release for the hook and latches). It worked a couple of times before getting stuck again.

quote:

Also to answer your original question, looking at that photo I'm not sure there would be enough wiggle room if you removed the hinges. There'd have to be enough slop in all the pieces to allow you to swing the door open partly, pull it left far enough for the bolts to leave the keeps AND lift it to clear the hook from its keep. All without hitting the wall.
I assume that I might have to cut the hinges and then grind them back making them flush with the frame to give me more door sliding room.

quote:

How much would a replacement frame cost? In my case (which is really the only one I have any detailed knowledge of) they're just screwed into the wall from the inside of the frame. Might be cheaper to cut the frame around the latches & bolts and/or around the hinges.
Yeah, its just gonna be screwed into the wall from the inside. It is screwed into the conservatory window unit on the other side so tight that the whole frame is deformed at the screws.
I'll measure the frame up and see if I can price it but I am assuming that it will be more than the £4 that each hinge costs?

peanut posted:

Paint it and enjoy your new stained glass window!
I have suggested that this door could be abandoned and just the other door used instead (the conservatory also has patio doors in it around 6 foot to the right). I will also suggest this.

H110Hawk posted:

If you can get access to internals then graphite lube is what you use, wd40 is just going to gum things up more. Can you tell where the lock is bound up? Do the keys work at all?
The key moved perfectly. It has no lock barrel in at the moment and the bit that the barrel hasp pushes on in the gearbox moves without problem (I can move it back and forth manually without the barrel fitted to simulate locking or unlocking it)

This door is one of the ones where you move the handle up 90 degrees to activate the additional 2 latches and hook. It can only be locked when like this.
When unlocked, when you move the handle down from horizontal it should both release the additional latches and hook and move the central latch on the gearbox.

When unlocked now the handle only moves down a tiny amount before stopping. The single latch on the gearbox does free up and you can pop it back in (i can do this with a screwdriver due to the play in the frame) and the other locks move a tiny amount but are not freed up such that you can lever them.


I think i'm going to
First take the glass out (it should only take 5 mins and 2 paint scrapers) so that the door is lighter and so that i don't break it and to see if the UPVC might then flex enough to wiggle it out of the latches.
Then cut the hinges and see if i can move it enough
If not then step 2 is to attack the gearbox with the grinder from behind the glass using the new one so i know what bits i can destroy.
If this doesn't work then step 3 is to see which is cheaper between a new bars/hooks assembly and a frame and decide which i want to destroy next.

Jealous Cow
Apr 4, 2002

by Fluffdaddy

good jovi posted:

I have a weird old house with a very uneven concrete basement floor. The walls are made of a brick-colored sponge, mostly held together by efflorescence at this point. So we get a fair amount of water seeping in when it rains. Most of it tends to find a drain eventually, but not without some pooling, and not all of it.

Is it a thing to dig out drain ditches around the perimeter, filled with rocks or whatever, eventually connected to the actual drain? And does that sound like a thing I could reasonably do myself? I don't actually know what it takes to break through concrete, or how that might affect the integrity of the walls themselves.

Just saying that makes it seem like an even worse idea, but it might help to hear someone else say it.

https://www.aquaguardinjection.com/basement-waterproofing-services/interior-weeping-tile-system/

Don’t do it yourself. There are probably several dozen local dealers that sell their own versions and compete on price.

For reference, getting a ~1300sqft basement done where I live would run $17-20k.

Jaded Burnout
Jul 10, 2004


Tomarse posted:

I'll measure the frame up and see if I can price it but I am assuming that it will be more than the £4 that each hinge costs?

Yeah probs, though it might cost less than a new multilock thinger

Tomarse posted:

I think i'm going to
First take the glass out (it should only take 5 mins and 2 paint scrapers) so that the door is lighter and so that i don't break it and to see if the UPVC might then flex enough to wiggle it out of the latches.
Then cut the hinges and see if i can move it enough
If not then step 2 is to attack the gearbox with the grinder from behind the glass using the new one so i know what bits i can destroy.
If this doesn't work then step 3 is to see which is cheaper between a new bars/hooks assembly and a frame and decide which i want to destroy next.

sounds good

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006
I know there has been a lot of appliance chat around, and in that there was speculation/bitching about water filters and if the "ebay" style knockoffs actually did anything. Seems Amazon has come out with a competitor which at least likely doesn't contain glass shards, lead, and cadmium in equal parts: https://smile.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-Replacement-LT700P-Refrigerator-Filter/dp/B07CH3C296/

SetPhazers2Funk
Jan 27, 2008

Good, bad, I'm the one with the gun.
Anyone ever had to deal with buying/selling a house with an illegal bathroom? We're looking at buying a house in New York state (Westchester County, not NYC) and while the house is great, someone at some point (judging from the decor, 30+ years ago) put in an unpermitted full bathroom in the basement. My preference would be to leave the bathroom alone, but it's likely that the bank appraiser will flag it as part of their review, and I don't want to wear the risk of having to spend thousands of dollars to fix what should be the seller's problem. I'm assuming that the actual mechanics of the bathroom are fine, if there's something actually wrong and unfixable then it'll be coming out permit or no permit.

Googling around, it's unclear exactly what steps would need to be taken to make it pass the minimum requirements necessary to be decommissioned. One approach seems to be shutting off all of the relevant pipes, and then uninstalling the toilet, sink fixtures, and shower head and door. Then you put a bunch of boxes in the room and claim it as a storage room. I/the seller could do this without a plumber in a few hours, and would seem to be the path of least resistance. The local code resources that I can find online are delightfully unclear as to what I would need to do short of tearing the room down to the studs, which I am loathe to do given the expense and the fact that I'm personally fine with having at least a sink in that room.

I realize that nobody's going to be able to give me a definitive answer here, but would be curious if someone had dealt with a similar situation.

stupid puma
Apr 25, 2005

This might be regional but around here (MN) I’d be extremely surprised if such a thing were flagged by an appraiser unless it was clearly dangerous for some reason. Maybe my past appraisers have pulled permits and just not told me but the entire basement in my last house was unpermitted so they must have kept it to themselves if so.

If your appraiser gives you a hard time about it I’d make it the responsibility of the current owners to demolish it to expose the electrical and plumbing or whatever the appraiser/city finds acceptable.

BigFactory
Sep 17, 2002

SetPhazers2Funk posted:

Anyone ever had to deal with buying/selling a house with an illegal bathroom? We're looking at buying a house in New York state (Westchester County, not NYC) and while the house is great, someone at some point (judging from the decor, 30+ years ago) put in an unpermitted full bathroom in the basement. My preference would be to leave the bathroom alone, but it's likely that the bank appraiser will flag it as part of their review, and I don't want to wear the risk of having to spend thousands of dollars to fix what should be the seller's problem. I'm assuming that the actual mechanics of the bathroom are fine, if there's something actually wrong and unfixable then it'll be coming out permit or no permit.

Googling around, it's unclear exactly what steps would need to be taken to make it pass the minimum requirements necessary to be decommissioned. One approach seems to be shutting off all of the relevant pipes, and then uninstalling the toilet, sink fixtures, and shower head and door. Then you put a bunch of boxes in the room and claim it as a storage room. I/the seller could do this without a plumber in a few hours, and would seem to be the path of least resistance. The local code resources that I can find online are delightfully unclear as to what I would need to do short of tearing the room down to the studs, which I am loathe to do given the expense and the fact that I'm personally fine with having at least a sink in that room.

I realize that nobody's going to be able to give me a definitive answer here, but would be curious if someone had dealt with a similar situation.

How do you know it was un permitted?

HycoCam
Jul 14, 2016

You should have backed Transverse!
This post turned into a book... tl:dr https://www.cityofwhiteplains.com/86/Building Call or drop by during inquiry hours and explain the situation to an inspector. Take pictures with you, if you have them. They can tell you what it will take to make legal or if it has to go.


The issue with being unpermitted is with the appraisal, but not quite in the way, I think your thinking.

First off. There is a thing called "material fact" in real estate. If the seller knows of certain faults and fails to disclose those faults--they are liable. Unpermited improvements and additions are typically a material fact. Which means the seller should have told their realtor. And then the seller's realtor is required to tell all prospective buyers of the material facts. (Wood boring inspects, prone to flooding, pending assessment, pending neighborhood changing construction--like the woods in the back are turning into a highway in six months stuff--all material facts)

Appraisers aren't paid enough to check the permit history on a property. But a good real estate firm will require their selling agents to pull the permit history on a house. The only way an appraiser knows something is unpermitted is if they are told. Appraisers are only interested in finding comparable properties. Don't know the details of New York transactions. But in most states--the buyer pays for the appraiser. i.e. the appraiser is working for you, not the bank--but the bank/underwriters are sure going to want to see that appraisal. Depending on the bank, they might even want to see more--like a survey, a home inspection, and maybe, a well/septic inspection, but I'm getting sidetracked...

If the appraisal comes back with a value lower than your contract price, you are going to find the bank won't loan you as much as they said they would initially. I don't know your bed/bath count or contract price, but going to make up some numbers:
You have a contract for $100K, you are bringing $20K and financing $80K. If the appraisal comes back with a $90K value, the bank is only going to lend you $72K and if the sellers won't renegotiate the price and you really want the house--you'll need to pony up the extra $8K at closing.

The appraiser is going to measure your house, count bedrooms, count bathrooms, and get your lot size from the survey/tax records then find at least three similar properties in the neighborhood that have sold recently and determine the value of the house. And this is were the unpermitted work comes into play. Instead of comparing your 3 bed, 3 bath house with another 3 bed, 3 bath homes--you'll be compared to 3 bed, 4 bath homes--because the appraiser will count the unpermitted bathroom as a bathroom. Home prices in Westchester aren't cheap. Based on area comps--your appraiser can tell you the value of a full or half bath. i.e. a full bath in this area adds $25K to the value of the house.

So, what to do? If you have a good realtor, hopefully they have explained all this and more. Not knowing Westchester County's bad/bath requirements makes it tough to say what to do/will happen if inspectors get involved. In our area a house can have as many bathrooms as you would like and is only limited in bedrooms. For my market, if the Inspection Dept got involved with a 30ish year old bathroom improvement, they would issue a permit (at double the typical rate) with maybe a small fine (typically no fine if you were not the owner when the work was done). The inspector would come out and inspect what he could, looking for past water damage and making sure GFI outlets were in place. Assuming no issues are found--poof less than a thousand dollars and thirty minutes later your unpermitted improvement is now legal and permitted. Oh and then the tax department finds out too and your property taxes might go up.

But, no idea how Westchester would handle the unpermitted work. Westchester might want to see all the work behind the wallboard and/or require all the work to meet the current code--which is the same cost as putting in a new bathroom. If Westchester limits bathrooms for your lot or septic and you are over the limited amount--your faced with expanding the septic if possible, requesting a variance to the bathroom count, or simply removing the bathroom. This is all stuff your realtor should know.

I'm assuming you know about unpermitted work because your realtor told you. And I'm assuming your realtor knows because the sellers told their realtor--who told your's. The seller's agent should have encouraged the sellers to contact Permitting & Inspections (https://www.cityofwhiteplains.com/86/Building) to get the bathroom straightened out. A permitted bath would increase the value of the house resulting in a higher commission. Unpermitted work scares off buyers and means a longer time on market. Many reasons for that not to have happened, but a big reason people won't try to make it legal is they know the most likely outcome is having to remove the improvement.

Which brings us to the bottom line--how is the house priced? Is the house priced like a 3 bed 4 bath, or is it priced like a 3 bed 3 bath? If the sellers are asking for a price in line with 3 bed 4 bath--I'd recommend renegotiating price or requiring the sellers to legalize the improvement. If you are going to buy the house with the unpermitted improvement, at least give a call or stop by during inquiry hours at Permitting & Inspections and explain the situation. Inspectors get a bad rap, all they want to do is make sure folks are safe and have a sound investment. Those guys will tell in probably less time than it took to read this what your getting into.

HycoCam fucked around with this message at 06:42 on Feb 12, 2019

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009

SetPhazers2Funk posted:

it's likely that the bank appraiser will flag it as part of their review

HycoCam posted:

The appraiser is going to measure your house, count bedrooms, count bathrooms

What bizarro world you you all live in where appraisers even bother to drive by a property, never mind actually enter it?

In all of my property transactions around here they have been loving useless, and obviously do nothing more than google street view and/or Zillow and MLS to do their "research."

Jealous Cow
Apr 4, 2002

by Fluffdaddy

Motronic posted:

What bizarro world you you all live in where appraisers even bother to drive by a property, never mind actually enter it?

In all of my property transactions around here they have been loving useless, and obviously do nothing more than google street view and/or Zillow and MLS to do their "research."

The first appraisal on my current house included a 6 year old photo from street view in the report.

glynnenstein
Feb 18, 2014


Motronic posted:

What bizarro world you you all live in where appraisers even bother to drive by a property, never mind actually enter it?

In all of my property transactions around here they have been loving useless, and obviously do nothing more than google street view and/or Zillow and MLS to do their "research."

Recently there was a dude sitting in a car taking notes or something in front of my house that I found kinda suspicious so I got a cell phone picture of whatever the guy was writing. It was an appraiser who was writing up a property in the neighborhood and I could see with just at a glance at his form there were a bunch of errors about the area. You'd think people would care about the details for million-dollar-ish houses, but I guess it's just SOP.

Twerk from Home
Jan 17, 2009

This avatar brought to you by the 'save our dead gay forums' foundation.
I bought a new construction house with a flat roof and a deck on top because I'm a moron in May 2017. It has had varying levels of water intrusion basically since the day I moved in, when I was too dumb to realize that the ugly crown molding joints were because of the MDF getting wet.

The builder has been cooperative at trying to fix things, and I've had many rounds of roof repair and interior refinishing followed by leaks after they declare that it has been fully repaired. The roof was originally a cheaper black EPDM, and has now had an entirely new layer of thicker white EPDM put over it. They've cut huge drainage holes into the railing around the deck, rather than the small scuppers that were there. The leaks have gone from catastrophic (water pouring from a recessed light fixture at a rate high enough to fill a storage tub) to just wet spots forming on the ceiling that are wet to the touch, and paint failure along the drywall where there is water getting in. The flooring has been refinished in some places, replaced in others, and there's been some drywall and trim replacement.

It's been almost two years of the repair attempts, and now my point of contact for warranty is setting up a meeting with the owner of the homebuilding company. It's a small local one, and I have no idea what they're going to propose, but I'm looking for a list of things that need to be done before repairs are truly complete.

My questions:
Should I be fighting for any insulation batts that got wet to be replaced, or will they dry if they just got moist and not entirely soaked? The places that leaked badly enough to require drywall replacement had some batts replaced when they cut out the drywall, and others were judged "ok" by eyeballing them.
Is having a flat roof just asking for it? Am I going to go through this whole thing again in 5 years, except not have the builder warranty to cover all the expenses?

The Dave
Sep 9, 2003

They're reassessing all the properties in my county and from what I've read on Facebook/Nextdoor basically everyone has something to correct. For me it's the listing that our attic space is fully finished (it's partially finished), but others have been reporting everything from wrong sq ft. to new bathrooms showing up.

cakesmith handyman
Jul 22, 2007

Pip-Pip old chap! Last one in is a rotten egg what what.

Twerk from Home posted:

I bought a new construction house with a flat roof and a deck on top because I'm a moron in May 2017. It has had varying levels of water intrusion basically since the day I moved in, when I was too dumb to realize that the ugly crown molding joints were because of the MDF getting wet.

The builder has been cooperative at trying to fix things, and I've had many rounds of roof repair and interior refinishing followed by leaks after they declare that it has been fully repaired. The roof was originally a cheaper black EPDM, and has now had an entirely new layer of thicker white EPDM put over it. They've cut huge drainage holes into the railing around the deck, rather than the small scuppers that were there. The leaks have gone from catastrophic (water pouring from a recessed light fixture at a rate high enough to fill a storage tub) to just wet spots forming on the ceiling that are wet to the touch, and paint failure along the drywall where there is water getting in. The flooring has been refinished in some places, replaced in others, and there's been some drywall and trim replacement.

It's been almost two years of the repair attempts, and now my point of contact for warranty is setting up a meeting with the owner of the homebuilding company. It's a small local one, and I have no idea what they're going to propose, but I'm looking for a list of things that need to be done before repairs are truly complete.

My questions:
Should I be fighting for any insulation batts that got wet to be replaced, or will they dry if they just got moist and not entirely soaked? The places that leaked badly enough to require drywall replacement had some batts replaced when they cut out the drywall, and others were judged "ok" by eyeballing them.
Is having a flat roof just asking for it? Am I going to go through this whole thing again in 5 years, except not have the builder warranty to cover all the expenses?

Uhh, this sound's like a recipe for mold. Yes flat roofs are generally terrible.

Jaded Burnout
Jul 10, 2004


Mold happens where there's water. If you get rid of the water and stop more getting in, no mold. So if they've already had the plasterboard off I'd not expect it to be a problem, but that's assuming they've repaired your roof properly. When I had leaks in mine they had to basically build a new roof over the top of the old one, but it's remained dry since.

Saying that all flat roofs lead to leaks is obviously absurd because just about every office building in the world has one.

SetPhazers2Funk
Jan 27, 2008

Good, bad, I'm the one with the gun.

This is great, thank you.

stupid puma
Apr 25, 2005

The Dave posted:

They're reassessing all the properties in my county and from what I've read on Facebook/Nextdoor basically everyone has something to correct. For me it's the listing that our attic space is fully finished (it's partially finished), but others have been reporting everything from wrong sq ft. to new bathrooms showing up.

Are you required by law to let assessors into your house where you live? I’ve always denied them access for this reason and force them to guess on what my house is “worth.”

cakesmith handyman
Jul 22, 2007

Pip-Pip old chap! Last one in is a rotten egg what what.

Jaded Burnout posted:

Saying that all flat roofs lead to leaks is obviously absurd because just about every office building in the world has one.

I said they're generally terrible and I'll stand by that, but I'll add that the vast majority of those buildings have a fairly short design life, like as little as 20 years.

peanut
Sep 9, 2007


Flat roof intended as a deck will be very flat. Flat roof that will never be seen will be slightly sloped.
Sorry op, I think your best bet is to add a roof and significantly reduce the size of your partydeck.

Motronic
Nov 6, 2009

peanut posted:

Flat roof intended as a deck will be very flat. Flat roof that will never be seen will be slightly sloped.
Sorry op, I think your best bet is to add a roof and significantly reduce the size of your partydeck.

That's not at all the only way that kind of thing is done.

Good construction techniques include a properly pitched "flat" roof with a deck above it. This both allows the walking/sitting area to be level and keeps the waterproof surface from requiring additional abrasion and puncture resistance while decreasing wear from traffic.

Harik
Sep 9, 2001

From the hard streets of Moscow
First dog to touch the stars


Plaster Town Cop
I asked in the general thread and they directed me here - Solar power.

I'm using a shitload of power due to A) Living in Florida and B) having a family of 8. 1500KWh/mo winter, 2300KWh/mo summer. I don't think the tax credit applies to me due family of 8 nuking my federal tax liability to the point I'd be rolling over everything but a hundred or two a year.

I'm trying not to get scammed because it's a huge deal with multiple competing companies pushing to install solar right now. Lease vs Loan, system sizing, etc. It's a lot to work with.

A lot of the numbers presented are best case/worse case respectively, assuming magical efficiency levels out of the system they're selling and guessing the utility will keep ratcheting up rates well beyond what their historic ramp has been. It's hard to work out a bottom-line number on what it will do to my monthly bills.

Kaiser Schnitzel
Mar 29, 2006

Schnitzel mit uns


Twerk from Home posted:

I bought a new construction house with a flat roof and a deck on top because I'm a moron in May 2017. It has had varying levels of water intrusion basically since the day I moved in, when I was too dumb to realize that the ugly crown molding joints were because of the MDF getting wet.

The builder has been cooperative at trying to fix things, and I've had many rounds of roof repair and interior refinishing followed by leaks after they declare that it has been fully repaired. The roof was originally a cheaper black EPDM, and has now had an entirely new layer of thicker white EPDM put over it. They've cut huge drainage holes into the railing around the deck, rather than the small scuppers that were there. The leaks have gone from catastrophic (water pouring from a recessed light fixture at a rate high enough to fill a storage tub) to just wet spots forming on the ceiling that are wet to the touch, and paint failure along the drywall where there is water getting in. The flooring has been refinished in some places, replaced in others, and there's been some drywall and trim replacement.

It's been almost two years of the repair attempts, and now my point of contact for warranty is setting up a meeting with the owner of the homebuilding company. It's a small local one, and I have no idea what they're going to propose, but I'm looking for a list of things that need to be done before repairs are truly complete.

My questions:
Should I be fighting for any insulation batts that got wet to be replaced, or will they dry if they just got moist and not entirely soaked? The places that leaked badly enough to require drywall replacement had some batts replaced when they cut out the drywall, and others were judged "ok" by eyeballing them.
Is having a flat roof just asking for it? Am I going to go through this whole thing again in 5 years, except not have the builder warranty to cover all the expenses?
Do you have a wooden deck built on top of the rubber roof or is the EPDM the surface you walk on? I'm having a hard time imagining how the railing would be attached. Penetrations are the enemy of any roof, and adding a deck is going to add a lot of penetrations. Was the deck over flat roof your design or something the builder had? In some ways the small leaks are worse than the big ones because they can go for years unnoticed until you find out a whole wall is rotten and full of termites because it collapses.

At this point, I would get a lawyer and get nasty-they have every incentive to keep half-assing this until whatever warranty runs out. I'd want to get a third party (not their roofer who apparently doesn't know how to do this right) to do the work and the builder pay the bill. They've had their chance to make good. While you're playing hardball, I'd go ahead and demand they replace whatever got wet ever and see what they come back with. Then sell your house to someone else who hasn't thought about how bad an idea it is to put a million extra holes in a flat roof.

Honestly the roof should be fixable and everything made right, but flat roofs especially need to be kept clean and well maintained which is going to be trickier with a deck built on top of it.

H110Hawk
Dec 28, 2006

Harik posted:

I asked in the general thread and they directed me here - Solar power.

I'm using a shitload of power due to A) Living in Florida and B) having a family of 8. 1500KWh/mo winter, 2300KWh/mo summer. I don't think the tax credit applies to me due family of 8 nuking my federal tax liability to the point I'd be rolling over everything but a hundred or two a year.

I'm trying not to get scammed because it's a huge deal with multiple competing companies pushing to install solar right now. Lease vs Loan, system sizing, etc. It's a lot to work with.

A lot of the numbers presented are best case/worse case respectively, assuming magical efficiency levels out of the system they're selling and guessing the utility will keep ratcheting up rates well beyond what their historic ramp has been. It's hard to work out a bottom-line number on what it will do to my monthly bills.

Never lease. Always own it, finance it if you want or need to. Federal tax credit: Are you saying your family earns so little as to not owe more than a few hundred on federal taxes? (2018 Form 1040, Line 15 is under a grand? https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f1040.pdf It's different from last year.) If so, see if there are programs that can help pay for your panels because you're poor.

There are a couple of ways you can do this, and it depends on what the power company is willing to do with your PPA (Power Purchase Agreement). The absolute best far and away is "Net Metering" where you make the grid your battery. You sell in 1kwh, that gives you 1kwh in draw as credit, regardless of pricing. These are unsustainable and going away slowly. Next is basically some form of wholesale, where they give you a dollar amount credit per kwh sold. You sell them 1kwh, they give you $0.10, period. How that dollar amount is come up with is down to a lot of details in the PPA - ask to see it. Look at your bill, see how there is "Distribution" and "Draw/consumption/generation/whatever"? Take that "Draw" number as your maximum they will pay you, but it's likely less than that and closer to what they can buy wholesale power for on the grid.

System sizing: If it's net metering then more or less bigger is better, let's say you have 6 hours of peak generation per day (I forget what this is in reality) and want to zero out your bills. In Florida it's summer 9 months of the year, so on average you draw 2,375 kWh/month. If you get 6 hours of peak generation, the biggest system you would want to zero yourself out is ~13KW. (2375KWh * 12months / 365 days / 6 hours = 13 KW.) You likely average more hours of generation than that but you get the idea, like you might get 10 hours a day and generate say 100kwh from that 13KW system. There are ways to calculate this, have them show you, ignore their math on the payoff.

When it's raining, you're not going to generate as much. When your panels get dirty, you're going to generate less. Over time they will generate less, but not too much less if you used high quality panels.

If it's a wholesale deal you kinda have to just want to sink capital to see a lower bill and hopefully ROI in 10+ years.

The Dave
Sep 9, 2003

stupid puma posted:

Are you required by law to let assessors into your house where you live? I’ve always denied them access for this reason and force them to guess on what my house is “worth.”

I don't know but I didn't plan on doing that nor do I think they have the ambition to.

Harik
Sep 9, 2001

From the hard streets of Moscow
First dog to touch the stars


Plaster Town Cop

Kaiser Schnitzel posted:

Honestly the roof should be fixable and everything made right, but flat roofs especially need to be kept clean and well maintained which is going to be trickier with a deck built on top of it.

I loathe flat/nearly flat roofs. 15 years ago I bought a property with a porch roof that tied into the normally sloped roof but was something like 1/8" per foot pitch. Even that wasn't enough dumb, because they put a screen enclosure that rose above it, meaning that you had a slope running into a screen wall to guarantee debris buildup in the gutter. If that wasn't enough potential for water damage, throw a pool heater coil on there with 30-40 tiedown bolts that needed to be sealed.

I had to do major repairs once and a complete rebuild later and when I left it basically needed to be torn down anyway. I don't think the design was salvageable, it needed to be re-sloped which meant re-roofing the house itself to tie it in differently and that's someone else's problem now.


H110Hawk posted:

Never lease. Always own it, finance it if you want or need to. Federal tax credit: Are you saying your family earns so little as to not owe more than a few hundred on federal taxes? (2018 Form 1040, Line 15 is under a grand? https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f1040.pdf It's different from last year.) If so, see if there are programs that can help pay for your panels because you're poor.
No, I make 75k but have 6 kids and 6 thousand dollars of tax credits wipes out what I owe.

quote:

There are a couple of ways you can do this, and it depends on what the power company is willing to do with your PPA (Power Purchase Agreement). The absolute best far and away is "Net Metering" where you make the grid your battery. You sell in 1kwh, that gives you 1kwh in draw as credit, regardless of pricing. These are unsustainable and going away slowly. Next is basically some form of wholesale, where they give you a dollar amount credit per kwh sold. You sell them 1kwh, they give you $0.10, period. How that dollar amount is come up with is down to a lot of details in the PPA - ask to see it. Look at your bill, see how there is "Distribution" and "Draw/consumption/generation/whatever"? Take that "Draw" number as your maximum they will pay you, but it's likely less than that and closer to what they can buy wholesale power for on the grid.

System sizing: If it's net metering then more or less bigger is better, let's say you have 6 hours of peak generation per day (I forget what this is in reality) and want to zero out your bills. In Florida it's summer 9 months of the year, so on average you draw 2,375 kWh/month. If you get 6 hours of peak generation, the biggest system you would want to zero yourself out is ~13KW. (2375KWh * 12months / 365 days / 6 hours = 13 KW.) You likely average more hours of generation than that but you get the idea, like you might get 10 hours a day and generate say 100kwh from that 13KW system. There are ways to calculate this, have them show you, ignore their math on the payoff.

When it's raining, you're not going to generate as much. When your panels get dirty, you're going to generate less. Over time they will generate less, but not too much less if you used high quality panels.

If it's a wholesale deal you kinda have to just want to sink capital to see a lower bill and hopefully ROI in 10+ years.
I want as big a system as I can install but I don't have enough roof area facing south+west to zero out my needs, so I don't think I need to worry about net metering. Mostly I want to cut off as many AC hours as I can to try to get rid of the 5c premium I'm paying for going over 1000kwh each month.

Harik fucked around with this message at 02:06 on Feb 13, 2019

~Coxy
Dec 9, 2003

R.I.P. Inter-OS Sass - b.2000AD d.2003AD

Harik posted:

I asked in the general thread and they directed me here - Solar power.

I'm using a shitload of power due to A) Living in Florida and B) having a family of 8. 1500KWh/mo winter, 2300KWh/mo summer. I don't think the tax credit applies to me due family of 8 nuking my federal tax liability to the point I'd be rolling over everything but a hundred or two a year.

I'm trying not to get scammed because it's a huge deal with multiple competing companies pushing to install solar right now. Lease vs Loan, system sizing, etc. It's a lot to work with.

A lot of the numbers presented are best case/worse case respectively, assuming magical efficiency levels out of the system they're selling and guessing the utility will keep ratcheting up rates well beyond what their historic ramp has been. It's hard to work out a bottom-line number on what it will do to my monthly bills.

See if you can find anyone on pvoutput near you. That gives you real-world figures on how many units you can expect to generate based on a certain size system.

If you use most of your power in the evening then PV won't help you that much. (Unless you have net metering)
I have a 5 kW system that generates 20 units per day long term average, and I export two-thirds of that.
It's still on track to pay itself off after less than 6 years, but from what I hear the terms are much worse in the USA.

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That Works
Jul 22, 2006

Every revolution evaporates and leaves behind only the slime of a new bureaucracy


Anyone have any experience with / recommendations on fireplace inserts?

Our house was built in 2004, we moved in a few months ago and have been using the fireplace a good bit. Just this week we noticed some of the ceramic tileplate on the bottom of the place is cracking / flaking away. We're not going to use it again out of safety concerns and were considering upgrading it with an insert.

We live in New England, it's an oil heated home. I'd like to get a bit more efficiency out of the fireplace but we won't be relying on it to heat the home for a bulk of the winter. I also would prefer to keep it just a wood burning insert, not pellets, no gas. I was thinking a big iron / steel insert with a door that would give a bit more radiant heat into the room, possibly even something that extended out a bit that could be used to heat a pan on etc. Not necessarily a full-on stove but something with more utility would be nice in case of a long term power outage.

Does anyone have experience with these or can at least recommend things to steer clear of? Also, what would a good ballpark cost for insert + installation likely run? I am aware this could be a wide range but just looking for somewhere to start from for budgeting purposes.

This is the current layout. I'm open to changing the tile / hearth somewhat, I'd prefer to not have to mess with the flooring.

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