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patonthebach posted:I don’t think there is a single regular poster left in this thread that votes this way but good job being really angry at an issue that you have no vested interest in I guess Pt6a has been voting this way since forever, and plans to continue voting for the Liberals. The same is true of James Baud (unless he votes Conservative) and almost certainly Clam Down, among others.
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Feb 10, 2019 19:42
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Lobok posted:The summer break complaint is also just a distraction. It's not like everybody would suddenly be totally cool with and supportive of teachers if year-round schooling existed. Not really a complaint so much as "so their effective pay rate is 33% higher than someone comparing against a regular full year salary". That's how I look at my own income all the time re: should I work or take a few months off, so it's definitely how I'd look at it as a teacher. Other people's views will vary, perhaps.
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Feb 10, 2019 19:48
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James Baud posted:Most teachers in Ontario, in fact, do not make significantly less than that. Alberta's right there in the same boat. Other provinces are less, sure, but this discussion is in an Ontario context. You did read the part where it says pay category is dependent on education (so presumably everyone with a teaching degree is in it) whereas pay level depends on seniority, starts at 50k and takes 10+ years to go up to 90k... right?
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Feb 10, 2019 19:57
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We should make ChairMaster the IK of CanPol imho
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Feb 10, 2019 20:01
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Helsing posted:We should make ChairMaster the IK of CanPol imho I think he already is. Also, I feel sad that I now live in a riding where the CPC candidate is virtually guaranteed to win. 
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Feb 10, 2019 20:05
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eXXon posted:You did read the part where it says pay category is dependent on education (so presumably everyone with a teaching degree is in it) whereas pay level depends on seniority, starts at 50k and takes 10+ years to go up to 90k... right? Sure. Name a profession other than pharmacy with a flat salary curve. (If you can, great, one more for my mental list.) Earning 50k initially once past the supply teacher phase when you know full well how it will climb shouldn't be that big a deal in the grand scheme. If 75% of teachers are in the highest pay category and career length is 30 years (longer?), it follows that half of teachers are earning the max, subject to some effect from when big hiring bursts occurred in the past few decades. This shouldn't be controversial, it's not new math.
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Feb 10, 2019 20:08
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efb James Baud - Without commenting on the issue of teacher compensation, your reading is a little inaccurate. In the context of that article, “category” is referring to education levels, not experience. Roughly speaking, in SK, there are 3 realistic categories for education level. 1. B.Ed. 2. Two degrees, non-M.Ed.. 3. Two degrees inc. M.ed. You then ascend a salary grid based on years of teaching experience. So, what your excerpt is telling us is the number of teachers at each education level, not specifically their overall financial compensation.
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Feb 10, 2019 20:10
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James Baud posted:Not really a complaint so much as "so their effective pay rate is 33% higher than someone comparing against a regular full year salary". Are you then also including work they do outside of school hours and paying for supplies? If we're doing a full accounting, that is.
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Feb 10, 2019 20:11
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I'm married to a teacher; can confirm their pay doesn't reflect the hours they put in. Another huge issue is the lack of support staff and assistants for those kids with special needs and learning disabilities.
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Feb 10, 2019 20:12
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As a teacher who is also married to a teacher, we both put in 60-hour weeks on the regular. We easily get up to 2000 hours of work in a year like every other worker who gets two weeks of vacation a year.
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Feb 10, 2019 20:29
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Friendly reminder that our society is wealthy enough that there's no reason we shouldn't all be earning salaries comparable to the highest teacher salaries, if only the insanely wealthy weren't stealing enormous portions of the proceeds of our labour and hiding it in tax havens.
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Feb 10, 2019 20:45
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vyelkin posted:Friendly reminder that our society is wealthy enough that there's no reason we shouldn't all be earning salaries comparable to the highest teacher salaries, if only the insanely wealthy weren't stealing enormous portions of the proceeds of our labour and hiding it in tax havens. Not actually true, even phenomenal wealth disappears in a hurry against the scale of humanity. 50 billion earning 6% a year funds 100k income for 30,000 people. If you argue "just the top-up from median full-time income of 50k", then 60,000 people. Are there 600 people hiding away 50b or 6000 hiding away 5b in Canada alone? I think not. Canada supposedly has 39 billionaires total. Even allowing for dramatic undercounts... and we are a relatively wealthy country. (This is where an appreciable UBI falls flat, too... Universality is crazy expensive.)
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Feb 10, 2019 21:03
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James Baud posted:Sure. Name a profession other than pharmacy with a flat salary curve. (If you can, great, one more for my mental list.) Earning 50k initially once past the supply teacher phase when you know full well how it will climb shouldn't be that big a deal in the grand scheme. I don't know many teachers but one of my friends spent a couple of years just waiting to get on the supply teacher list, then several more years of irregular supply work before finally getting a full-time position. It's not like most young teachers do a 3 year degree and then start earning 100k by the time they're 31. Moreover from what I remember the last negotiation round between Ontario teachers and the Liberal government was about basically everything but salaries.
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Feb 10, 2019 21:04
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James Baud posted:Not actually true, even phenomenal wealth disappears in a hurry against the scale of humanity. lmao
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Feb 10, 2019 21:04
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What do you folks think of Rachel Notley and/or her likelihood of running for the Federal NDP this Fall? These thoughts/facts came to mind and in chronological order: - Singh loses the Burnaby by-election - Alberta NDP loses the the Spring provincial election - Edmonton Strathcona NDP MP Linda Duncan is retiring. - Notley resigns as MLA and becomes candidate for both the Federal riding and NDP leadership. and then we're off to the races..
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Feb 10, 2019 21:05
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KDSet posted:What do you folks think of Rachel Notley and/or her likelihood of running for the Federal NDP this Fall? Sounds like a terrible idea nobody asked for.
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Feb 10, 2019 21:06
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Helsing posted:Sounds like a terrible idea nobody asked for. Canada: Sounds like a terrible idea nobody asked for. Already have the campaign slogan!
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Feb 10, 2019 21:17
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Helsing posted:lmao You'll note my position is, if nothing else, consistent. 
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Feb 10, 2019 21:19
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KDSet posted:What do you folks think of Rachel Notley and/or her likelihood of running for the Federal NDP this Fall? Thanks, I hate it.
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Feb 10, 2019 21:19
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Even under the hypothesis that Jagmeet loses in Burnaby, the caucus and federal council aren't just going to hand the leadership to Notley and shift the party's position on ~resource development~ six months before an election where the best case scenario is saving the furniture in BC and Québec.
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Feb 10, 2019 21:27
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Clearly the NDP's decision to double the leadership race entry fee to $30,000 wasn't enough to weed out the bad candidates, so hopefully next time the NDP does the prudent thing and increases the entry fee to $60,000, that way we can have an even more vibrant and ideas-driven leadership race this time around.
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Feb 10, 2019 21:32
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James Baud posted:Most teachers in Ontario, in fact, do not make significantly less than that. Alberta's right there in the same boat. Other provinces are less, sure, but this discussion is in an Ontario context. This does not include supply teachers, who should be included. When looking at the salary grid, this is, from my understanding, the categories across the top, not indicating that 3/4 of ontario teachers have 10+ years experience. Years of experience need to then be factored in. What 3/4 of teachers have is lots of education backing them up, which is what pushes them into the highest category (group 4) in the payscale grid. This absolutely does not mean they make 100k+, unless they have the requisite experience. See Here
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Feb 10, 2019 21:45
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If you simply take canada's GDP divided by population everyone would be getting about 44k a year, that's including seniors, babies, the disabled, everyone. That is almost exactly the current average personal income in Canada (for working poulation) If you take Canada's GDP and divide only by working-aged population it's 66k a year. The current average HOUSEHOLD income is about 70k, so this would almost double average household income. Of course GDP and income don't exactly work like that where it's as simple as GDP/Population = correct equal personal income. But to say if we distributed wealth evenly the share the mega-rich steal from us every day would just vanish is pretty incorrect, it would nearly double the average income.
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Feb 10, 2019 21:48
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Federal NDP already have a candidate for Edmonton-Strathcona. They had the vote for it a couple months ago. Candidate is Heather McPherson.
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Feb 10, 2019 21:49
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Baronjutter posted:If you simply take canada's GDP divided by population everyone would be getting about 44k a year, that's including seniors, babies, the disabled, everyone. That is almost exactly the current average personal income in Canada (for working poulation) GDP is already a pretty arbitrary and not always very useful statistic under current economic conditions. A world that enacted the kind of reforms you describe is so far removed from ours I don't really think 'GDP is even a useful guide to what our society would look.
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Feb 10, 2019 22:02
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KDSet posted:What do you folks think of Rachel Notley and/or her likelihood of running for the Federal NDP this Fall? Helsing posted:Sounds like a terrible idea nobody asked for. liberal media pundits who only cover the NDP in a negative way are all over this idea for some reason lol
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Feb 10, 2019 22:59
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KDSet posted:What do you folks think of Rachel Notley and/or her likelihood of running for the Federal NDP this Fall?
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Feb 10, 2019 23:30
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A funny thing that happened is when the Liberals gave their Burnaby byelection candidate the hook for racism, local media floated former BC Liberal premier Christy Clark as a possible replacement and the tweet threads were filled with federal Libs insisting that they have nothing to do with the BC Liberal party which is really more of a conservative party... and then they ultimately picked former BC Liberal MLA Richard Lee lol
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Feb 10, 2019 23:38
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That's weird that they would imply that the Liberals aren't essentially a conservative party.
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Feb 10, 2019 23:45
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Powershift posted:Canada: Sounds like a terrible idea nobody asked for. There was an episode of Seinfeld where Jason Alexander briefly becomes successful in his career and with women by doing and saying the exact opposite of whatever he thinks he should do and say. Maybe it's time for a Canadian politician to try that.
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Feb 10, 2019 23:51
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I think Rachel Notley would be a very good NDP MP, with an eventual eye to party leadership, and it's pretty much the one move that would make me vote NDP federally without hesitation. I think she's played the hand she was dealt in Alberta with uncommon skill and while I'll admit to being skeptical about her at first, I will admit I was completely wrong about her. That being said, I hope she continues being Premier for a long while, even if I know deep down it won't happen
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Feb 11, 2019 01:17
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If the federal NDP just wants to give up in BC, Notley would be a fine choice for their leadership.
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Feb 11, 2019 01:31
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I agree. I can't really see Notley being leader on a federal level as going over well, particularly when the NDP does seem to have a fairly active-ish base that is pushing for more left wing policies.
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Feb 11, 2019 01:33
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It would be best for the progressive left if the federal NDP just disbanded and a new party took their place. It’s a garbage party with too much institutional baggage and career boomers. The NDP will never form government and their existence is going to result in the resurgence of the left in the US being a wet fart here in Canada.
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Feb 11, 2019 01:36
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Yes, who would want a federal leader who's managed to push through things like a higher minimum wage and significant improvements to employment health and safety standards successfully in Alberta? God knows they probably just don't know how to get poo poo done.
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Feb 11, 2019 01:37
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Notley is a federal Liberal.
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Feb 11, 2019 01:39
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Baronjutter posted:Notley is a federal Liberal. still left of Jagmeet, let's be honest
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Feb 11, 2019 01:44
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PT6A posted:Yes, who would want a federal leader who's managed to push through things like a higher minimum wage and significant improvements to employment health and safety standards successfully in Alberta? God knows they probably just don't know how to get poo poo done. I mean, thats not much more than Wynne did in Ontario. With a bar that low we wouldnt even need a federal NDP, just keep voting Liberal.
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Feb 11, 2019 01:47
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PT6A posted:Yes, who would want a federal leader Good q
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Feb 11, 2019 02:27
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Helsing posted:There was an episode of Seinfeld where Jason Alexander briefly becomes successful in his career and with women by doing and saying the exact opposite of whatever he thinks he should do and say. Could call themselves the Opposition Party.
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Feb 11, 2019 02:32
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