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HEY GUNS posted:proportionally the 30yw was the worst war Europe has ever experienced and i think the 19th century Chinese religious civil war is still worse
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Feb 11, 2019 19:55
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Cessna posted:Yeah, that's the thing. They got a lot of propaganda play out of the "Happy Time" early in the war when they were able to attack Allied shipping within sight of the shore and - and this is the important part - get away with it. Sinking Allied ships with impunity is a propaganda coup. Same with things like sinking the Royal Oak - the fact that they hit the battleship and got away with it was crucial.
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Feb 11, 2019 20:00
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HEY GUNS posted:proportionally the 30yw was the worst war Europe has ever experienced and i think the 19th century Chinese religious civil war is still worse Pure numbers probably not, just by virtue of China being so big 20 million people was only 5% of the population. The areas where the fighting was concentrated certainly saw horrors to match anything in the 30yw though.
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Feb 11, 2019 20:00
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FMguru posted:IIRC, the Taiping Rebellion was the second deadliest war in human history (worse than WWI, second only to WWII).
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Feb 11, 2019 20:01
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Milo and POTUS posted:And that's a major language, not something remotely obscure. I bet you could do an effortpost on translators in warfare. Hell you could probably do one on post war translators alone and I'd bet it's the cold war that really got the military and intelligence communities to kick language studies into high gear. This was a HUGE thing in the Cold War. A lot of the language grants you see today for mastering foreign languages were basically started so the US would always have a critical mass of people who spoke critics languages and at least a smattering of everything else. The Fulbright, FLAS, CLS, and CLEA all have deep Cold War roots. They still are active but funding has been slashed for a lot of them leading to a pretty well recognized crisis in foreign language proficiency, especially in the people who are likely to end up working for the State Dept or other agencies. If you’re fluent in Bangla are you more likely to work in the government or as a translator for some big company when they want to open a factory? It also doesn’t help that a lot of those positions need beau coup security clearance, which can lead to problems with immigrants from those areas who learn English as their second.
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Feb 11, 2019 20:02
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P-Mack posted:just by virtue of China being so big 20 million people was only 5% of the population.
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Feb 11, 2019 20:02
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I feel like calling something like 30 yw a civil war is like calling WW1 a civil war since the majority of the participants eventually formed the European Union and I like it
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Feb 11, 2019 20:09
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HEY GUNS posted:so the 30yw may hold the record for worst civil war of all time If I was going to contest it I'd go with the An Lushan rebellion even though I don't really buy the high end estimates.
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Feb 11, 2019 20:10
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Nenonen posted:I feel like calling something like 30 yw a civil war is like calling WW1 a civil war since the majority of the participants eventually formed the European Union
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Feb 11, 2019 20:12
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The war of Swedish aggression
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Feb 11, 2019 20:14
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The War to Resist French Imperialism and Aid the Palatinate
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Feb 11, 2019 20:15
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Cyrano4747 posted:This was a HUGE thing in the Cold War. A lot of the language grants you see today for mastering foreign languages were basically started so the US would always have a critical mass of people who spoke critics languages and at least a smattering of everything else. The Fulbright, FLAS, CLS, and CLEA all have deep Cold War roots. They still are active but funding has been slashed for a lot of them leading to a pretty well recognized crisis in foreign language proficiency, especially in the people who are likely to end up working for the State Dept or other agencies. If you’re fluent in Bangla are you more likely to work in the government or as a translator for some big company when they want to open a factory? It also doesn’t help that a lot of those positions need beau coup security clearance, which can lead to problems with immigrants from those areas who learn English as their second. gently caress for that matter a lot of student exchange programs also have deep roots in that territory. Fulbright again had a lot of hopes of using what we would now recognize as American soft power to bring foreigners to American schools and make them love our way of life. You see this going the other way too. The Germans were a bit concerned with their international image after WW2. They wanted people to think more of happy fat bavarians drinking beer and listening to Beethoven than angry, lank Prussians listening to Wagner while giving a map of France side-eye. Things like the German Academic Exchange Service (DAAD) and Goethe Institut both had a specific task (bring people to Germany to do research, learn the language) but they were also conceived of as cultural resources for strengthening political and economic ties and bringing Germany back into the international community. And it worked. What’s more they still invest in it. I’m a great example. The DAAD paid for my dissertation research.
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Feb 11, 2019 20:17
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P-Mack posted:The War to Resist French Imperialism and Aid the Palatinate
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Feb 11, 2019 20:47
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FMguru posted:IIRC, the Taiping Rebellion was the second deadliest war in human history (worse than WWI, second only to WWII). The Mongol Conquests were more deadly than the Taiping Rebellion if you count the entire period. The conquest of China alone might have been more. But then again I guess there’s a huge controversy on how many people were actually killed in China at the time since it’s possible that the huge decrease in recorded population was partly because of the governments inability to properly tax everyone.
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Feb 11, 2019 21:15
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:The Mongol Conquests were more deadly than the Taiping Rebellion if you count the entire period. The conquest of China alone might have been more. But then again I guess there’s a huge controversy on how many people were actually killed in China at the time since it’s possible that the huge decrease in recorded population was partly because of the governments inability to properly tax everyone.
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Feb 11, 2019 21:21
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HEY GUNS posted:the mongol conquests were not a civil war I was responding to a post that was talking about the deadliest wars in human history.
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Feb 11, 2019 21:26
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HEY GUNS posted:the mongol conquests were not a civil war Doesn't China spin Ghengiz as being from Inner Mongolia, and therefore technically a civil war?
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Feb 11, 2019 22:03
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Iceatollah posted:Doesn't China spin Ghengiz as being from Inner Mongolia, and therefore technically a civil war? Is that some nationalistic bullshit to avoid the icky fact that the 5000 years of uninterrupted history was in fact interrupted by dirty foreigners?
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Feb 11, 2019 22:09
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iirc there was an important general named Li on the taiping side. I've always liked that the slave-owning traitor from Virginia wasn't even the most important general Lee of his own time
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Feb 11, 2019 22:57
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Is that some nationalistic bullshit to avoid the icky fact that the 5000 years of uninterrupted history was in fact interrupted by dirty foreigners? Iceatollah posted:Doesn't China spin Ghengiz as being from Inner Mongolia, and therefore technically a civil war? No, they know he was a Mongol
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Feb 11, 2019 23:00
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The Jin dynasty he was invading was also ruled by Jurchen already, not Han
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Feb 11, 2019 23:07
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oystertoadfish posted:iirc there was an important general named Li on the taiping side. I've always liked that the slave-owning traitor from Virginia wasn't even the most important general Lee of his own time Li Hongzhang. He met with Grant during his post presidency world tour, and thought the name coincidence was hilarious.
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Feb 11, 2019 23:09
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HEY GUNS posted:so...subs are the navy's cavalry? No, see, the British make good submarines.
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Feb 11, 2019 23:36
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Cessna posted:No, see, the British make good submarines. It was never the horses who were the problem.
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Feb 11, 2019 23:43
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P-Mack posted:The war of Swedish aggression The War on Popery 
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Feb 11, 2019 23:46
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Cessna posted:U-boats are tiny. Somebody in the Airpower thread posted this the other day which is a nice illustration of the size difference: Dante80 posted:The big US fleet subs like the Gato were larger than even the largest German combat subs fielded, the IX D class. For comparison, here is a gato next to a VII. And American submariners had ice cream machines, air conditioning, refrigeration and freezers, water distillers, laundry machines and plenty of bunk beds. The galley on a Gato class, according to a list I found, had "two griddles, a deep-fat fryer, two electric ovens, a electric mixer, and a two-gallon coffee urn." From what I can find U-Boats had, at most on the larger boats, three hot plates and two small electric ovens, a small refrigerator, a self-heating soup kettle, and a sink. (a feature like how economy cars will list "AM/FM radio" as a feature) So imagine that, at the same time you've got Germans in harrowing Das Boot conditions in the Atlantic, there are a bunch of American submariners eating steak with french fries, and a sheet cake afterwards because they got a kill that day.
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Feb 12, 2019 00:40
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C.M. Kruger posted:So imagine that, at the same time you've got Germans in harrowing Das Boot conditions in the Atlantic, there are a bunch of American submariners eating steak with french fries, and a sheet cake afterwards because they got a kill that day. When I worked on Pampanito the stove top still worked. We served donors breakfasts cooked according to navy menus on the sub, and they were quite good. In WWII - and from what I hear this is still true today - the best cooks get submarine duty as a way to improve the quality of life for the crews. I got a ride on an SSBN once, and the food was excellent.
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Feb 12, 2019 00:49
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Zudgemud posted:It was never the horses who were the problem.  Anyone know why the American boat has two torpedoes strapped to the outside? I presume they can't run from that position and it seems like an odd place to put reloads.
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Feb 12, 2019 02:44
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Cessna posted:No, see, the British make good submarines. Sometimes they make bad ones and sell them to Canada. FrangibleCover posted:Anyone know why the American boat has two torpedoes strapped to the outside? I presume they can't run from that position and it seems like an odd place to put reloads. It is indeed for reloads. It's two more you can carry otherwise. A number of U-boats carried torpedoes externally as well. Phanatic fucked around with this message at 02:56 on Feb 12, 2019 |
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Feb 12, 2019 02:52
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C.M. Kruger posted:And American submariners had ice cream machines, air conditioning, refrigeration and freezers, water distillers, laundry machines and plenty of bunk beds. The galley on a Gato class, according to a list I found, had "two griddles, a deep-fat fryer, two electric ovens, a electric mixer, and a two-gallon coffee urn." From what I can find U-Boats had, at most on the larger boats, three hot plates and two small electric ovens, a small refrigerator, a self-heating soup kettle, and a sink. (a feature like how economy cars will list "AM/FM radio" as a feature) My take away from Das Boot was that German submariners mostly ate bananas.
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Feb 12, 2019 02:55
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Phanatic posted:It is indeed for reloads. It's two more you can carry otherwise. A number of U-boats carried torpedoes externally as well. How do you get them down from there and into the tubes?
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Feb 12, 2019 03:00
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The Lone Badger posted:How do you get them down from there and into the tubes? They're carried down the hole by a surge of seamen
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Feb 12, 2019 03:03
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The Lone Badger posted:How do you get them down from there and into the tubes? same way you would pierside, through the torpedo loading hatch
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Feb 12, 2019 03:05
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Phanatic posted:Sometimes they make bad ones and sell them to Canada. From what I heard they were just neglected while mothballed and ended up with a host of issues.
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Feb 12, 2019 03:19
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Japanese sub did shell Oregon once. Didn't have much impact, in part because the gun crews of Ft. Stevens bravely withdrew to the forest so they wouldn't be tempted to fire back and reveal that their coastal defense guns weren't installed properly. They also shelled Los Angeles oil refinery, causing a movie-worthy panic. IIRC the Germans tried to mine the US harbors a couple time as well.
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Feb 12, 2019 03:20
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pikes are overrated https://twitter.com/bellegenerico_/status/1094646279488061441
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Feb 12, 2019 05:08
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:No, they know he was a Mongol The official stance is that the Yuan Dynasty is a Chinese dynasty and Mongols are a Chinese people since the Qing Dynasty controlled all of Mongolia.  Mongolians in China know what's up but most Han Chinese will call Mongols from Mongolia proper, "Huaren." It essentially means people of Chinese descent born outside of China or descendants of a Chinese diaspora.
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Feb 12, 2019 05:10
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RocknRollaAyatollah posted:The official stance is that the Yuan Dynasty is a Chinese dynasty and Mongols are a Chinese people since the Qing Dynasty controlled all of Mongolia. it would own as hell if you opened a book about Tacitus and read that Germania was populated by Angela Merkels (Angelas Merkel?)
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Feb 12, 2019 05:12
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RocknRollaAyatollah posted:The official stance is that the Yuan Dynasty is a Chinese dynasty and Mongols are a Chinese people since the Qing Dynasty controlled all of Mongolia. The Yuan Dynasty was a Chinese dynasty, but that's not the same thing as thinking Mongols are Chinese people. Mongols are an official ethnic minority of China, they speak a totally unintelligible language from Chinese, nor does written Mongolian use Chinese script. If somebody calls a Mongol a huaren then they're dumbasses or using some idiosyncratic version of the term.
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Feb 12, 2019 07:14
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P-Mack posted:Pure numbers probably not, just by virtue of China being so big 20 million people was only 5% of the population. The areas where the fighting was concentrated certainly saw horrors to match anything in the 30yw though. So, how did the Taiping rebellion spread so to so many people?  I've read your excellent posts on the conflict, but I never really got a handle on why they were so effective. I'm guessing wildly here, but did it have something to do with the Manchu dynasty being bad at government? I recently heard (in a podcast about taoism, weirdly enough) that there were actually co-belligerents against the Manchu, like the "turban rebels" and "sword societies", can you elaborate on that? Thanks in advance!
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Feb 12, 2019 09:30
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