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Coolness Averted posted:It doesn't even take being a bad person or 'taking the easy way out' with someone like Zak. Yeah there were definitely people who chose to ignore clear warning signs, but if you had a close friend with other mutual close friends who all vouched for and knew that friend was good would you believe their side of things or randos from the internet with vague accusations that completely didn't match them? Hence why abusers try so hard to control their narratives. If they can warp their victims' reality to the point where they're questioning whether or not it really happened or it was really all that bad themselves, people on the outside are constantly presented a seemingly fine and normal situation because all the victims are too terrified to say anything, have been conditioned into internalizing the abuser's version of events, or (when it's past events) are so raw and hurt by it all that they lie to their loved ones rather than confront something they'd prefer to never think about again, or risk endangering people currently in the predator's sights.
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Feb 12, 2019 05:03
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Halloween Jack posted:Hite got his MA in international relations from the U of Chicago, so he only supports abusers if they're working for a US-sponsored dictator. Not even just willing to work with him. Remember that Mark Diaz-Truman publicly threw a friend and associate under the bus in order to write a "can't we all get along" blogpost about how people telling Zak to gently caress off are being too mean. For no reason! Why would he do that? Who fuckin knows! Maybe he thought it would make him look like the Wise Mediator In These Troubled Times, a premise that has definitely not aged well.
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Feb 12, 2019 05:32
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Nearly all of these motherfuckers now giving mealy mouthed apologies and claiming they didn't know are full of poo poo. They knew from the start. They were just ok with other people paying the price, right until the backlash grew strong enough that it could trail to them. Like that Magpie poo poo? I don't trust that for a second. He knew what he was defending.
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Feb 12, 2019 05:44
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ProfessorCirno posted:Nearly all of these motherfuckers now giving mealy mouthed apologies and claiming they didn't know are full of poo poo. They knew from the start. They were just ok with other people paying the price, right until the backlash grew strong enough that it could trail to them. Like that Magpie poo poo? I don't trust that for a second. He knew what he was defending. Oh 100% agreed, I just don't even understand what Truman was expecting to get out of it. He and Zak never collaborated on a project to the best of my knowledge so he literally just decided to stan him publicly because ??????????????????
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Feb 12, 2019 05:45
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Kai Tave posted:Oh 100% agreed, I just don't even understand what Truman was expecting to get out of it. He and Zak never collaborated on a project to the best of my knowledge so he literally just decided to stan him publicly because ?????????????????? He fell for the strange conspiracy that most of this was over some made up feud between OSR and storygame TTRPG crowds and decided to barge his way in and play the voice of judgemental reason, then tried to stay quiet for three years until he was forced rush a "Sorry. Im sorry. Im trying to remove it" addendum to the top of the original Magpie blog post today.
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Feb 12, 2019 06:14
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Nuns with Guns posted:He fell for the strange conspiracy that most of this was over some made up feud between OSR and storygame TTRPG crowds and decided to barge his way in and play the voice of judgemental reason, then tried to stay quiet for three years until he was forced rush a "Sorry. Im sorry. Im trying to remove it" addendum to the top of the original Magpie blog post today. In other words, they a big ol' dumb gently caress.
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Feb 12, 2019 06:21
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thefakenews posted:Ken Hite has made a statement about Zak. I think this is something a few people were waiting for. Good, now admit Cambogia was a war crime! ProfessorCirno posted:Nearly all of these motherfuckers now giving mealy mouthed apologies and claiming they didn't know are full of poo poo. They knew from the start. They were just ok with other people paying the price, right until the backlash grew strong enough that it could trail to them. Like that Magpie poo poo? I don't trust that for a second. He knew what he was defending. It's likely for many of them yeah, although we'll never really know.
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Feb 12, 2019 06:31
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ProfessorCirno posted:Nearly all of these motherfuckers now giving mealy mouthed apologies and claiming they didn't know are full of poo poo. They knew from the start. They were just ok with other people paying the price, right until the backlash grew strong enough that it could trail to them. Like that Magpie poo poo? I don't trust that for a second. He knew what he was defending. It's frankly hilarious how fast these people who spent nearly seven years helping Zak abuse people are disowning him now that they sense the wind has changed.
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Feb 12, 2019 09:15
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gourdcaptain posted:Magpie Games put a retraction at the top their "everyone, stop hating on Zak S" blog post from a few years back. gently caress MDT. "Information that has since come to light". You loving lying scum, we told you at the time.
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Feb 12, 2019 12:25
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What he did was The Worst, but somehow he has made it Even Worse. Pretty bold move.
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Feb 12, 2019 12:41
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Lemon-Lime posted:It's frankly hilarious how fast these people who spent nearly seven years helping Zak abuse people are disowning him now that they sense the wind has changed. And Mike Mearls so far can't even be bothered that much. DigitalRaven posted:gently caress MDT. "Information that has since come to light". You loving lying scum, we told you at the time. Yep. He'd also pulled the "I'm going to lock this so you all can calm down and then I'll make a new post" thing back then, followed by silence, but I'm sure that'd have resulted in him digging even deeper. -_- EDIT: (looks at the most recent posts in the TG Industry thread on how MDT really went awful on this in claiming at the time he "wasn't responsible for Zak S.") Okay, yeah, screw Magpie Games still fully. gourdcaptain fucked around with this message at 13:28 on Feb 12, 2019 |
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Feb 12, 2019 13:16
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jfc, didn't we ban that rear end in a top hat like 5 years ago?
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Feb 12, 2019 13:45
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That Old Tree posted:What he did was The Worst, but somehow he has made it Even Worse. Pretty bold move. I used to say I was glad I bought my Masks stuff before I knew all that (even if he's the publisher, not the writer). Now? Boy howdy.
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Feb 12, 2019 13:53
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Coolness Averted posted:It doesn't even take being a bad person or 'taking the easy way out' with someone like Zak. Yeah there were definitely people who chose to ignore clear warning signs, but if you had a close friend with other mutual close friends who all vouched for and knew that friend was good would you believe their side of things or randos from the internet with vague accusations that completely didn't match 'the real person' you knew? Kai Tave posted:Not even just willing to work with him. Remember that Mark Diaz-Truman publicly threw a friend and associate under the bus in order to write a "can't we all get along" blogpost about how people telling Zak to gently caress off are being too mean. For no reason! Why would he do that? Who fuckin knows! Maybe he thought it would make him look like the Wise Mediator In These Troubled Times, a premise that has definitely not aged well.
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Feb 12, 2019 14:07
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His most effective angle was preemptively painting himself as the victim of a coordinated harassment campaign (by his real victims.) This cool guy that you've never personally witnessed doing harm tells you "a lot of coordinated trolls hate me because I'm a progressive sex-positive OSR gaming trans ally." All his closest contacts vouch for him, and your own experience seems to back this up. So from someone like Mike Mearls's perspective, our warnings look exactly like that coordinated smear campaign. That's what he's been prepared for. A lot of emails with similar accusations come in, and either a) I've wrongly teamed with a monster and serial abuser, or b) the internet is full of jerks. It doesn't matter what we told Mearls because he'd already been conned. It makes sense that he'd pass the warnings on rather than acting on them. He'd been duped into believing that they were baseless attacks even before we typed them. I'd never call Hite, Mearls, or any other associate a victim - but I think "patsy" is fair. I don't think all of them were consciously acting as enablers. A creep like ZS learns how to bamboozle people into inaction (or bad faith action). He's an rear end in a top hat whose life's focus was worming into grey areas, exploiting others' reluctance to believe that their fellow man could be as vile as he actually was.
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Feb 12, 2019 14:37
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Look, I'm not saying that Mike Mearls isn't a bad person, I just think that some of you are missing the very important context that he's dumb as poo poo
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Feb 12, 2019 14:40
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Halloween Jack posted:Look, I'm not saying that Mike Mearls isn't a bad person, I just think that some of you are missing the very important context that he's dumb as poo poo I know, I've played 5e.
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Feb 12, 2019 14:42
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Halloween Jack posted:Look, I'm not saying that Mike Mearls isn't a bad person, I just think that some of you are missing the very important context that he's dumb as poo poo I’ve seen some guy on both Twitter and Reddit fretting about Mearls’ failure to respond, because Mearls is his favourite designer and he respects him so much. loving imagine respecting Mearls for his game design talent, even if you ignore him enabling harassment.
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Feb 12, 2019 14:45
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Oh yeah, no, Mearls is dumb as a box of rocks. And Hite was a Ted Cruz supporter, so it's not like his critical thinking is flawless. But there's a lot of "how could they ignore all the evidence?" questions, and that's how: They were deceived by a professional liar.
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Feb 12, 2019 14:59
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Theres probably an element of 'they subconsciously dont want to believe someone lovely has risen to prominence in their hobby / passion' Look at how many nfl apologists there are lol player does something lovely and people warp their brains to avoid thinking about it because he catch ball good
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Feb 12, 2019 16:13
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There's also the factor that once you've done work with or recommended a guy, their reputation being trashed tarnishes yours as well. It doesn't do your book sales any good if the person who co-wrote it with you turns out to be a massive poo poo.
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Feb 12, 2019 17:02
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Luke Crane just announced a new edition of Burning Wheel via his mailing list and I can't remember the last time I snap bought something so quickly.
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Feb 12, 2019 17:30
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long-rear end nips Diane posted:Luke Crane just announced a new edition of Burning Wheel via his mailing list and I can't remember the last time I snap bought something so quickly. you can't just say this and not tell us if it was still in character
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Feb 12, 2019 17:37
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gradenko_2000 posted:you can't just say this and not tell us if it was still in character Unfortunately no. It's flowery and tongue-in-cheek because he can't write in any other way but it's not full-on wizard-speak. Here's the BW part: quote:Reopening the forums is a joyous occasion and deserves to be celebrated…with even more secret surprises. Thus we present to you the new latest edition of Burning Wheel. You'll note this edition has a new cover treatment, gold on red rather than red on gold. That is to signify that it is the definitive edition of Burning Wheel.
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Feb 12, 2019 17:43
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I'd pay stupid money for a plain-language PDF translation of Burning Wheel.
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Feb 12, 2019 17:43
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I want nothing out of Luke Crane beyond an acknowledgement that a) refunding me because I got annoyed at him being rude in Wizard Voice at people over the Burning Wheel Kickstarter was sheer pettiness and b) it's a massive potential conflict of interest for someone responsible for curating Kickstarter's gaming section to be running their own Kickstarters whilst in that position.
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Feb 12, 2019 18:01
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Holy poo poo, yes. Also I'm not on his mailing list, presumably for making fun of wizard voice.
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Feb 12, 2019 18:02
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moths posted:I'd pay stupid money for a plain-language PDF translation of Burning Wheel. I mean, the language in the actual book is fine, but yes, I just want a dang PDF.
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Feb 12, 2019 18:05
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moths posted:I'd never call Hite, Mearls, or any other associate a victim - but I think "patsy" is fair. I don't think all of them were consciously acting as enablers. Giving people a pass because "they didn't want to believe" or "well he's good at lying" instead of holding them responsible for being deceived (willingly or not) just gives lovely people an in-road to be more abusive to more victims, by letting people stand with them until just before the hammer drops and giving those people a shield to protect themselves from the splatter.
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Feb 12, 2019 18:27
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Yawgmoth posted:Lots of people don't consciously think "I am going to help this person abuse and harass anyone he desires" but that doesn't mean they aren't poo poo for doing so. Much the way MLM idiots don't think "I'm gonna join this thing to funnel as much of my family's resources to some rear end in a top hat in a rented Maserati" consciously, they still do it and it still hurts those around them and they still have to make sincere, concrete amends to those they have brought harm to, directly or indirectly, by their actions. It was his choice to believe an abuser and give that abuser the names of his victims who were calling him out instead of taking a moment to think "hey, maybe there might be something to all of these independent people, many of which have no real connection to each other beyond this one guy, coming out to tell me that he's a several different flavors of horrendous."
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Feb 12, 2019 18:37
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FMguru posted:Yeah, it's one thing to be taken in by a liar, it's a whole other kettle of fish to be taken in by a liar while people are shouting in your face that he's a liar and he's using you to hurt vulnerable people, and the fact that someone chooses to side with the abusive liar instead of the people pointing out his abusive lying tells us a lot about them and their real (not superficially expressed) values. This. Also, Mike Mearls is liking tweets on the topic but still hasn't said anything. What a coward.
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Feb 12, 2019 18:39
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gourdcaptain posted:This. Also, Mike Mearls is liking tweets on the topic but still hasn't said anything. What a coward. I hate Mearls a lot but isn't this bordering on stalking the guy?
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Feb 12, 2019 18:41
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Plutonis posted:I hate Mearls a lot but isn't this bordering on stalking the guy? no.
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Feb 12, 2019 18:43
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Plutonis posted:I hate Mearls a lot but isn't this bordering on stalking the guy?
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Feb 12, 2019 18:45
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Plutonis posted:I hate Mearls a lot but isn't this bordering on stalking the guy?
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Feb 12, 2019 18:46
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dwarf74 posted:I follow him on Twitter and occasionally get notifications like "Mike Mearls and 87 others liked this tweet." I thought only likes to your tweets or replies to you appeared on notifications. Nevermind then.
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Feb 12, 2019 18:51
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Plutonis posted:I thought only likes to your tweets or replies to you appeared on notifications. Nevermind then. oh yeah you can also just go to a guy's page and see everything they've liked, for some reason (seriously it's weird for the personal 'like' thing to be public but ~twitter~).
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Feb 12, 2019 18:53
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Halloween Jack posted:Criticizing the public statements of a brand manager is the opposite of stalking, so no. That, and I saw people complimenting him for taking a stand on the issue for doing so. (Rolls eyes.) It's not even the least he could do in actually taking a stance. I am keeping an eye on him because D&D is frustratingly simultaneously the main entryway to the hobby, considered inclusive, and run by Mearls. Mearls actions in regards to Zak S. and RPGPundit make me angry to at least a small level every time I see any of the many news articles talking about how progressive 4e is. It's hurt the hobby as a whole immensely.
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Feb 12, 2019 18:55
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I am willing to give Mearls this much benefit of the doubt (and this much alone): precisely because he's the D&D brand manager, and particularly because this has been an issue in the past with Zak S., I think it's highly likely that anything he wants to say on the matter needs to be passed by various corporate offices legal team to ensure that a) it's something Wizards/Hasbro are happy to stand behind and b) it's something Wizards/Hasbro's attorneys reckon they'd be able to defend if Zak starts tossing libel lawsuits around. Most people in the RPG space do not answer to a corporate structure as big as the one Mearls has to answer to, and so when they're silent I'm more willing to read that as a reluctance to stick their neck out. Mearls is not his own master the way that Raggi is his own master. If we get to the end of the week and nothing's come from Mearls and Wizards I'd be happy to read that as moral cowardice.
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Feb 12, 2019 19:23
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Warthur posted:I am willing to give Mearls this much benefit of the doubt (and this much alone): precisely because he's the D&D brand manager, and particularly because this has been an issue in the past with Zak S., I think it's highly likely that anything he wants to say on the matter needs to be passed by various corporate offices legal team to ensure that a) it's something Wizards/Hasbro are happy to stand behind and b) it's something Wizards/Hasbro's attorneys reckon they'd be able to defend if Zak starts tossing libel lawsuits around. That first tweet linked that he liked was from someone saying they couldn’t talk about Zak while working at Paizo even, so even though I dislike Mearls a lot, I’m going to give him some time on this one.
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