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BENGHAZI 2 posted:Do we ever Funny how these people are never actually consistent with their, "no one should face any consequences, not even soft social ones like being ostracized, without a conviction," views
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Feb 14, 2019 00:16
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BENGHAZI 2 posted:Do we ever To be fair, that dude very much got shouted down by half a dozen other people in that thread pretty much immediately.
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Feb 14, 2019 00:18
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a computing pun posted:I'm involved in an intensely unpleasant argument about Mike Mearls in which every attempt I make to ascribe any behaviour to Mearls-in-the-past is met with accusations of rumormongering and requests for proof. The closest I can find are the words of a former WotC employee who was part of their online support. Again not direct, but from someone who worked with the company at the time. Libertad! fucked around with this message at 00:42 on Feb 14, 2019 |
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Feb 14, 2019 00:40
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mkultra419 posted:To be fair, that dude very much got shouted down by half a dozen other people in that thread pretty much immediately. The OP qas also bad but less bad but yeah to be clear that dude is an outlier
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Feb 14, 2019 00:56
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a computing pun posted:I'm involved in an intensely unpleasant argument about Mike Mearls in which every attempt I make to ascribe any behaviour to Mearls-in-the-past is met with accusations of rumormongering and requests for proof. Also FYI That's a form of the gish gallop where people will demand proof, dismiss said proof and demand more proof over and over. It's particularly beloved by the alt-right, MRA, gamergate types and, of course, by Zak. It's okay to walk away when you know they're not actually interested in debating the point and are instead just making GBS threads all over the thread because the last thing they want is to actually discuss in a reasonable manner. Somewhere like here, sure, you get to throw things and know other people will support you or reinforce/promote your arguments. rpg.net mostly, albeit their moderation can be all over the place at times. ENWorld - outright MRAs and 'i'm not racist but...' get to thrive, though their mods are doing better, but that's only x hours after, but out in the wild of twitter/reddit/wherever, then people get to run amok and it's just you and what you're prepared to deal with.
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Feb 14, 2019 01:04
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BENGHAZI 2 posted:Do we ever e: app doesn't emphasize new page, grumble grumble
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Feb 14, 2019 01:05
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a computing pun posted:I'm involved in an intensely unpleasant argument about Mike Mearls in which every attempt I make to ascribe any behaviour to Mearls-in-the-past is met with accusations of rumormongering and requests for proof. It's difficult for anything short of an actual investigation to provide you this kind of smoking gun proof, and someone demanding it is sort of proof of a bad faith argument but in addition to the stuff from Matthew Lee there's a screencap of Mearls defending Zak in July 2014, but the damning evidence is the swarm of people coming out to state in no uncertain terms that Mearls was presented with the evidence of Zak's harassment at the time and that he did turn that evidence over to Zak and you can just check Mearls' Twitter for the cavalcade of different people with no connection saying "no you're a loving liar, you loving liar" But I have a feeling this person is just a chud and they're not asking you for proof, they're only interested in pointing out potential doubt in order to be a chud.
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Feb 14, 2019 01:10
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Arivia posted:Both really. Lock them for like a month and then reopen them with stated details on how much of a shitlord these people are. There’s no reason for our threads to cover for rapists and their enablers, even if the 5e players whine like crazy about it. Just shut down the 5E and Pathfinder threads, replace them with a dedicated Zak Smith megathread, and anyone who still wants to talk about D&D in TYOOL 2019 can just leave to reddit or rpg.net or whatever. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 14, 2019 01:44
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Bedlamdan posted:Just shut down the 5E and Pathfinder threads, replace them with a dedicated Zak Smith megathread, and anyone who still wants to talk about D&D in TYOOL 2019 can just leave to reddit or rpg.net or whatever. No. Zak and D&D are separate things.
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Feb 14, 2019 03:17
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The Mearls Defender Has Logged On
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Feb 14, 2019 03:19
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Mr. Maltose posted:The Mearls Defender Has Logged On I don't care about any of this, other than feeling sympathy for any victims of Zak.
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Feb 14, 2019 03:21
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MonsterEnvy posted:I don't care about any of this, other than feeling sympathy for any victims of Zak. So would you agree that all 5e books need to be edited to have Zak removed and that Mearls should be fired for using his position to enable a rapist's harassment campaigns and gaslighting?
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Feb 14, 2019 03:27
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MonsterEnvy posted:No. Zak and D&D are separate things. Zak "D&D 5e Contributor and Rapist" Smith and Mike "Gave abuse victim details to Rapist and D&D5e Lead Developer" Mearls just to be clear on whose who.
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Feb 14, 2019 03:33
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Bedlamdan posted:Just shut down the 5E and Pathfinder threads, replace them with a dedicated Zak Smith megathread, and anyone who still wants to talk about D&D in TYOOL 2019 can just leave to reddit or rpg.net or whatever. Not to side with MonsterEnvy, but the threads here are mostly good and I don't want to go to reddit. Mearls should get ousted and Zak should be utterly disavowed and removed from the credits of the game. These things have been true for a while though. Hey, are companies still paying shills to embed themselves in social networks and forums to sell games? I wonder if MonsterEnvy is one of those. That would explain a lot.
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Feb 14, 2019 03:35
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Arivia posted:So would you agree that all 5e books need to be edited to have Zak removed and that Mearls should be fired for using his position to enable a rapist's harassment campaigns and gaslighting? Sure remove him from the one book he was consulted and playtested. There is no hurry for it, he's not involved with D&D anymore and has not been for four years other than that minor role. Still no proof of maliciousness from Mearls just incompetence. And due to having met the guy I would say incompetence. He he is not very involved in creating stuff for D&D right now and I don't really care if leaves or not. Enola Gay-For-Pay posted:
I have nothing to do with WotC or any other companies for that matter. I am a supremely unimportant young man who works at a convenience store. Also the sort of person who largely gives the benefit of the doubt. MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 03:43 on Feb 14, 2019 |
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Feb 14, 2019 03:38
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“Sympathy for all victims, just not enough to inconvenience my favorite toy in any way shape or form, also it did no wrong despite all evidence” is certainly a stance one could take, yeah.
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Feb 14, 2019 03:41
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MonsterEnvy posted:Sure remove him from the one book he was consulted and playtested. There is no hurry for it, he's not involved with D&D anymore and has not been for four years other than that minor role. The evidence overwhelmingly points to Zak and Mearls being dogshit. Mearls solicited emails about Zak and then forwarded them to him! gently caress him!
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Feb 14, 2019 03:43
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BENGHAZI 2 posted:The evidence overwhelmingly points to Zak and Mearls being dogshit. Mearls solicited emails about Zak and then forwarded them to him! gently caress him! Which from having met the guy and what else I know about him, leans towards him just being stupid about that encounter rather then malicious. It's still a showing of gross incompetence however and is enough in my book to warrant losing his position. Mr. Maltose posted:“Sympathy for all victims, just not enough to inconvenience my favorite toy in any way shape or form, also it did no wrong despite all evidence” is certainly a stance one could take, yeah. What does this even mean. The two things are not related.
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Feb 14, 2019 03:46
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Who cares that Zak didn't literally write the book. His name is on the page because Mike Mearls specifically benefited from Zak's contacts with the OSR community in the development and pre-release hype cycle of 5e and Mike wanted to reward him for being the ambassador to the crowd of people that had sworn off WotC/D&D and that Mike wanted to bring back into the fold. Saying that Zak was unimportant to the release of D&D5 is disingenuous as gently caress.
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Feb 14, 2019 03:47
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Tendales posted:Who cares that Zak didn't literally write the book. His name is on the page because Mike Mearls specifically benefited from Zak's contacts with the OSR community in the development and pre-release hype cycle of 5e and Mike wanted to reward him for being the ambassador to the crowd of people that had sworn off WotC/D&D and that Mike wanted to bring back into the fold. OK. I don't know enough about Zak or the OSR community to add anything else. Well other then that Zak is a shitbag.
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Feb 14, 2019 03:50
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Don’t they print that contributor notice in every book? Even if it is “just” the PHB, that’s the flagship product. And no Mearls gave Zak legitimacy and covered for him repeatedly. He is absolutely a supporter, not just an idiot.
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Feb 14, 2019 03:51
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Arivia posted:Don’t they print that contributor notice in every book? Even if it is “just” the PHB, that’s the flagship product. And no Mearls gave Zak legitimacy and covered for him repeatedly. He is absolutely a supporter, not just an idiot. Just checked only in the PHB. And I am fine with him being stricken from the book. Just as I am fine with Mearls losing his position.
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Feb 14, 2019 03:54
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Arivia posted:Don’t they print that contributor notice in every book? No. Just the PHB, as far as I've seen. It's not in the DMG or MM.
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Feb 14, 2019 03:56
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MonsterEnvy posted:Just checked only in the PHB. And I am fine with him being stricken from the book. Just as I am fine with Mearls losing his position. That’s the one sane thing you’ve ever said on this and related subjects. Good on you. Now to give you some honest advice, everyone’s blood is running real hot on this right now. Defending yourself in here is just going to make it worse. Best thing you can do is take a break and not post and let people get all this out.
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Feb 14, 2019 03:56
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Meanwhile, White Wolf quietly deleted their blog post defending Zak... https://twitter.com/a_man_in_black/status/832716111044972545 But SomethingAwful remembers...
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Feb 14, 2019 04:04
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MonsterEnvy posted:No. Zak and D&D are separate things. Thanks for falling for bedlamdan's obvious bait post, then running in here to cry and pearl-clutch about the honor of 5e D&D, you walnut-brained buffoon.
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Feb 14, 2019 04:04
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Nuns with Guns posted:Thanks for falling for bedlamdan's obvious bait post, then running in here to cry and pearl-clutch about the honor of 5e D&D, you walnut-brained buffoon. Yeah you are pretty accurate, I don't have anything else to add.
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Feb 14, 2019 04:07
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did you know that when you have nothing to contribute, you can stop posting
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Feb 14, 2019 04:09
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I love how even when the guy is 100% on board and agreeing with you guys, you still find reasons to bully and push him around. You're all pathetic.
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Feb 14, 2019 04:10
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I am really curious how, "He was just an enormous idiot, really one of the biggest," is like.... a defense of Mearls' handing over information to Zak It's okay if he did something utterly detestable through sheer, massive incompetence rather than malice?
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Feb 14, 2019 04:10
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Lost_Heretic posted:Meanwhile, White Wolf quietly deleted their blog post defending Zak... Was that post back a few months ago during the nuWW debacle or further back? Edit: Reading would help. Two years ago.
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Feb 14, 2019 04:12
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Darwinism posted:I am really curious how, "He was just an enormous idiot, really one of the biggest," is like.... a defense of Mearls' handing over information to Zak I mean the man did make 5e, he could theoretically have been that loving stupid. But no it’s like Trump, there’s malice too. @Arthil: When something like this is finally resolved, there’s a whole lot of scores that need settling. A lot of people that have accounts payable for the poo poo they’ve done. MonsterEnvy is one of them. He’s paid his now, he can go.
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Feb 14, 2019 04:13
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MonsterEnvy posted:Yeah you are pretty accurate, I don't have anything else to add. Hey, you know it's fine. There really should be a warning label on that guy. Give me a sec to fix that...
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Feb 14, 2019 04:18
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Arivia posted:I mean the man did make 5e, he could theoretically have been that loving stupid. But no it’s like Trump, there’s malice too. Arivia I actually have a lot of respect for you because you've not been lashing out at him. It's others that comment was aimed at, mostly. Nuns with Guns posted:Hey, you know it's fine. There really should be a warning label on that guy. Give me a sec to fix that... I'm oddly excited to see this.
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Feb 14, 2019 04:33
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Nuns with Guns posted:Hey, you know it's fine. There really should be a warning label on that guy. Give me a sec to fix that...
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Feb 14, 2019 04:45
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you don't get to spend years caping for Mearls and Zak, up to and including threatening to approach Mearls with allegations of Zak's harassment a second time, just to make sure, and expect that things will be hunky dory with a "oh Zak is bad now" especially when this admission is still doing a shuck and jive downplaying Zak's involvement with the game There's got to be a reckoning
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Feb 14, 2019 04:49
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Arthil posted:I love how even when the guy is 100% on board and agreeing with you guys, you still find reasons to bully and push him around. You're all pathetic. Monsterenvy threatened to go to Mearls "just to confirm" this exact stuff, to "get both sides of the story" and "avoid the bias of one side". He has repeatedly cried when the topic comes up because having to even think about it spoils his elfgames. The closest he's come to apologising for any of this poo poo was today, when it turns out his is "fine with" mearls losing his position. That's not "being 100% on board", it's not even meeting the bare minimum for his past behavior on this subject. Start here: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3647634&userid=183977&perpage=40&pagenumber=20#post471891975 Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 06:11 on Feb 14, 2019 |
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Feb 14, 2019 06:08
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Lost_Heretic posted:Meanwhile, White Wolf quietly deleted their blog post defending Zak... Archive.org ALSO remembers. https://web.archive.org/web/20180219064531/https://blog.white-wolf.com/2017/02/17/a-howl-for-our-bloody-writer-artists/ quote:Regarding the recent accusations made against our freelancers: White Wolf was aware of and investigated the previous accusations against Zak before contracting him to write and illustrate the game script. Fortunately, these accusations all pertained to alleged online behavior: each accusation is connected to an online discussion, and the digital records of these discussions can be located and reviewed. White Wolf’s investigation concluded that the accusations are false, and that Zak did not engage in the alleged behavior. We have full faith in Zak and Sarah and are excited to see their great work with the World of Darkness spread! quote:First, we recognize that we need to clarify the wording of our blog post from last week. We realise now that it could be interpreted as a dismissal of people’s experiences, and that was never our intention. Nor did we intend to imply that we think anyone was being actively dishonest, and we are very sorry if that’s how it seemed. We understand how hurtful that could seem, and we regret it.
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Feb 14, 2019 06:11
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Arthil posted:I'm oddly excited to see this. Elephant Parade posted:Maybe wait to see if he gets banned first Haha the forums went down for a right as it was processing, so I guess I'll bug someone if it doesn't show up tomorrow. And since this forum is filthy with sin, as bedlamdan loves to remind us, I've also sent some money to RAINN as penance:  I'll be sure to grab a print copy of Thou Art But a Warrior and check out Olivia Hill's iHunt stuff tomorrow, too.
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Feb 14, 2019 06:14
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There seems to be some misconception that this is a time of amnesty for Zak's defenders. I don't know why people think that a half-assed apology after literally years of backing abusers and harassers and thus facilitating the harassment of even more people is going to get them any kind of slack.
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Feb 14, 2019 06:17
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