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head of john makes your head n neck almost indestructible, but demiurges play for keeps
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Feb 13, 2019 18:02
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Royalty means letting you head be cut but it still being invincible to any harm.
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Feb 13, 2019 18:53
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habeasdorkus posted:I wonder if corporeal Incubus got his face scars before or after mastering Head of John. And I wonder who gave them to him. Oh, I have a pretty good idea who she might be.
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Feb 13, 2019 20:50
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Rotten Red Rod posted:Oh, I have a pretty good idea who she might be. Future Allison is going to give him such a beat down that the scars are retroactive.
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Feb 13, 2019 21:08
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habeasdorkus posted:I wonder if corporeal Incubus got his face scars before or after mastering Head of John. And I wonder who gave them to him. The white hair and facial scars make Al and Inc look very similar. They run the same way and she wears a similar hobo cloak.
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Feb 13, 2019 21:38
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habeasdorkus posted:Yeah, his reaction to being cut is surprise followed by quickly concealed anger. RiotGearEpsilon posted:Yes, when I saw the line previews, I thought his delight at her improvement was sincere - but here it's clearly communicated that it is chiefly a mask pulled over his anger at being overcome.
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Feb 13, 2019 21:45
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Incubus and Allison have the same face scar. Incubus and Allison are the same person.
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Feb 13, 2019 22:04
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Benson Cunningham posted:Incubus and Allison have the same face scar. Incubus is aging backwards in time.
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Feb 13, 2019 22:11
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Dead Reckoning posted:I don't think it's anger, nor is it sincere appreciation of Allison's improvement. He's surprised, but I'd wager it's been a good long time since anyone bloodied him, and he misses the universal war. He's the deadliest swordsman in the universe, and like all the other demiurges, he is tired of ruling over dreams in a static empire. You missed the entirely of panels 2-4 in today's strip, then? Because that was really obviously rage papered over with fake cheeriness.
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Feb 13, 2019 22:18
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Darth Walrus posted:You missed the entirely of panels 2-4 in today's strip, then? Because that was really obviously rage papered over with fake cheeriness.
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Feb 13, 2019 22:27
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Dude's more emotionally complex than he lets on.
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Feb 13, 2019 22:55
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Dead Reckoning posted:His grin struck me less as forced cheer than psychotic rush of being in a real fight for the first time in decades. After the private death stare on the previous panel? No way.
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Feb 13, 2019 23:22
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Bongo Bill posted:Dude's more emotionally complex than he lets on. Quoted for truth. My personal theory is that Incubus, being (probably) Lust, is defined by his absolute need for victory. He was a heroic, powerful guy who never got to prove himself with the ultimate challenge and ended up one of the seven demiurges, but disrespected by his peers. When he says 'it's always about winning' that's real - he's ready to rekindle universal war just for a chance to come out on top. But, here's the kicker: He knows he needs Allison. She can win against Jagganoth, and he is pretty sure he can't. I don't think he's angry, I don't think he secretly hates Allison, I think he is trying with every ounce of his will to resist the fundamental urge of his life, which is to strike back, win, prove his strength. He needs her, but he also needs to affirm his own power constantly. Her scratching him like that is good, he wants her to be strong, but part of his basic personality is a desperate drive to respond to that strength by proving he can beat her. Which he's choking down right now, because it would be counterproductive and he's focused on long-term victory. My ideal situation with Incubus is that he's not lying to Allison much at all, other than glossing over all the ways his training will long-term leave her miserable and alone, because Incubus legitimately doesn't see doing that to yourself as a downside. Winners, in his understanding of the universe, do drugs. He wants her to win, and possibly his planned endgame is for her to recognize him as her mentor and the secret behind her success, so he can be recognized as the greatest warrior in history and the master vizier of the Rising King. Except his serious personal issues will never allow him to actually go through with that. Look at that face. That's a demiurge who really, really wants to prove himself right but is restraining himself from doing it the way that's most natural. That's someone who really thinks he's being a good teacher. He has to tell this story and belittle her because he's a terrible friend who can't actually allow her to get away with 'beating' him, even if that's what he's trying to train her to do. Incubus is my personal favorite for Actual Final Boss, because this relationship is dynamite (and terrible). Abaddon once described all the Demiurges as being caught in cycles, unable to break free of the things that define them; Mottom's paralysis of self-preservation to justify exploitation, Mammon's seclusion in the Tower, David's empire and self-righteous autocratic responsibilities... and I think Incubus' cycle is an inability to accept that he will never prove everyone wrong and make them respect him. He got described in concept as a 'curdled hero' - I think that means he has no ability to say 'I've done my part and it's done' or to be content with himself. His ambition is stagnant, self-destructive. He's a great foil to Allison, who's currently on the upswing: She's got some power, some reach, and her ambition has a limit of 'survival and save Zaid.' Her goals are actual human goals. Incubus' goals are 'that thing that happened where Maya quit and I never proved I could beat her? I can fix that and everything will be fine. Retroactively. All my personal issues and inability to be content will evaporate if I can just prove I can win against anyone, that's reasonable.' (bold to make it clear these are my wild theories) Joe Slowboat fucked around with this message at 23:54 on Feb 13, 2019 |
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Feb 13, 2019 23:49
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Wild theories are good 
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Feb 13, 2019 23:56
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I'm really hoping the danger with Incubus, for Allison, isn't 'he's going to stab you in the back!' and is more 'his idea of what you should want is deeply toxic and will leave you an unhappy tyrant like himself.' It would fit well with one of the core themes of the comic being Nietzschean self-will; Allison needs to decide what she wants, without illusions or self-censorship. She's started recognizing her desires and going in for, y'know, making out with Cio and becoming a martial arts wizard. Now the question becomes, how does she keep from 'wanting' things that will actually make her totally miserable, because they seem like the way to power? Mottom wants to live forever but pursuing her desire blindly made her miserable. Mammon's in a similar position, and I can't imagine Incubus is much happier. Solomon David is probably not very happy under that smug smirk either, given that his empire is constantly failing to provide a clone of him to take over so he can go do the stuff he wants to do. All the demiurges built prisons out of their desires, and Incubus is offering Allison power that will lead her to the same situation, I would bet. Allison will probably end up ruling the omniverse, but she needs to find a way to rule it that actually is satisfying, and I suspect that also means not being a tyrant. Possibly it means not actually administering it. Whatever possibility of personal victory she has, Incubus is not going to point the way.
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Feb 14, 2019 00:11
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Yeah that pretty much sums up what I figure Incubus' motivations are. He's got a massive inferiority complex, and desperately desires to either be taken seriously - or destroy those who won't take him seriously. And he's not above using people, even overtly - he and Jaggonoth openly talk about their inevitable clash, even though they currently have a pact to destroy the others. There's definitely going to be a clash between Incubus' ideals and Maya's at some point, if not a direct clash between the two. Which is why I'm really looking forward to Maya training Allison (assuming that's what this page means: https://killsixbilliondemons.com/comic/ksbd-4-77/ ), and in general, Maya's foreshadowed interactions with Allison. If she thinks White Chain is a tough master... Man. Joe Slowboat posted:I'm really hoping the danger with Incubus, for Allison, isn't 'he's going to stab you in the back!' and is more 'his idea of what you should want is deeply toxic and will leave you an unhappy tyrant like himself.' Jaggonoth seems to think that's Incubus' plan (stabbing Allison in the back), as he talks about the inevitability of the two of them fighting. He (Jaggonoth) obviously assumes that everyone will kill themselves, and he can mop up the remainder (and then... Rule everything? Destroy everything? Not sure yet..) But he's also assuming Incubus has the same goals, and Incubus is letting him assume that. But only Incubus knows what Incubus' ultimate plans are, or if he even wants to be a demiurge anymore. Hell, he might be JEALOUS that Maya was able to give it up. Rotten Red Rod fucked around with this message at 00:20 on Feb 14, 2019 |
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Feb 14, 2019 00:15
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Jagganoth wants to end the multiverse, because seriously have you seen all the people in it?
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Feb 14, 2019 00:26
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Demiurge4 posted:This training montage is buff as hell. I hope all future void versions of Incubus has a cheek scar, the one thing he can’t change about his appearance. Gunnerkrigg Court crossover
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Feb 14, 2019 00:33
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slowboat, I love your Incubanalysis and I think I'm on board edit: and on the jealous of Maya thing, I actually also kinda like the idea that he wants to put Allison in charge, be recognized and acclaimed as the guy that made it happen, and then retire on a high note because then his glory will never be challenged he probably can't, but maybe he's telling himself that's the plan Goatse James Bond fucked around with this message at 00:45 on Feb 14, 2019 |
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Feb 14, 2019 00:40
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Joe Slowboat posted:Quoted for truth. these are some good posts. the only thing I disagree with is that Allison's ultimately going to fill the role he plans for her and rule. The whole threat of the Demiurges is not that they want to kill her or anything, but that they want to enthrone her and make her rule in their stead - it's explicitly not what Allison wants, and it's been unequivocally shown to be a wrongheaded desire and a dead end. Her actually taking the throne with the idea that well she's going to get it right this time, not like all those other failed gods who thought that and hosed it up, would be an absolute failure of everything the story casts as worth caring about.
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Feb 14, 2019 01:10
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Oh absolutely- I think she's going to 'take the throne' in the sense of becoming the most powerful entity, and possibly even take over Throne, itself. But she's not going to conquer the universe or rule it. I do think she's going to lead some kind of change to Throne's organization that's not just 'the gangs take power rather than the demiurges' though. E: like... there's going to be a lot of universal war before we're through and I don't think Abaddon is going to either let us have some kind of magic 'fix it' button for that or just leave the universe in flames. So some kind of end to the war will have to happen, and some kind of faction will have to arise that's hopefully at least a better outcome than any of the current empires. E-2: ti be clear that would hopefully not mean 'establish a new empire' but there does need to be some solution other than 'well the demiurges are gone so their empires will wind down in a few thousand years' or anything like that. Joe Slowboat fucked around with this message at 01:38 on Feb 14, 2019 |
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Feb 14, 2019 01:33
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Rotten Red Rod posted:Yeah that pretty much sums up what I figure Incubus' motivations are. He's got a massive inferiority complex, and desperately desires to either be taken seriously - or destroy those who won't take him seriously. And he's not above using people, even overtly - he and Jaggonoth openly talk about their inevitable clash, even though they currently have a pact to destroy the others. Even though all we've seen of Incubus and Jagganoth's relationship fits on maybe eight panels, I absolutely love their dynamic. They're comically antagonistic, but for all of that Incubus shows absolutely zero hesitation in baring his heart to Jagganoth. For his part, Jagganoth pretty much says that Incubus is an idiot and his plan is dumb, but to go ahead and try. It's about the healthiest relationship we've seen between any of the demigods.
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Feb 14, 2019 01:49
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Yeah, Inky and the Jags have a pact that they're both holding to, which is to kick off a new universal war between the demiurges, but they both know that they're going to end up fighting each other. I don't think Jagganoth realizes exactly how powerful Al-YISUN is going to be, though, so he might be seriously underestimating Incubus's chances. So far only Mottom and Mammon are brawling, I wonder who gets to be the next drawn in. Agree that that's some excellent Incubanalysis and it's got me hoping that you're accurate because "curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal" is way less cool. Though it would be hilarious if Allison won and then made Incubus deal with the slog of putting everything back together again. habeasdorkus fucked around with this message at 02:53 on Feb 14, 2019 |
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Feb 14, 2019 02:50
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Meti's sword manual is the best fictional - and nonfictional - sword guide because it states "swordspersonship kind of blows; go do something, anything, more useful with your time"
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Feb 14, 2019 03:22
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Pacra posted:Meti's sword manual is the best fictional - and nonfictional - sword guide because it states "swordspersonship kind of blows; go do something, anything, more useful with your time" KILL SIX BILLION DEMONS - A sword is not your lover. It is a hideous tool for separating men from their vital fluids.
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Feb 14, 2019 03:30
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Swords are baroque instruments for those lacking Will.
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Feb 14, 2019 07:07
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habeasdorkus posted:I wonder if corporeal Incubus got his face scars before or after mastering Head of John. And I wonder who gave them to him. Head of john means that if anyone DOES manage to injure your face, there's no way in hell that poo poo's getting stitched up.
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Feb 14, 2019 07:37
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Joe Slowboat posted:Oh absolutely- I think she's going to 'take the throne' in the sense of becoming the most powerful entity, and possibly even take over Throne, itself. But she's not going to conquer the universe or rule it. shes going to lure the demiurges and their armies all into the same place and then beat them with the wheel until they stop being evil also wild prediction through some twist of fate gog agog is going to be allisons agent in this tournament make mockery fucked around with this message at 11:38 on Feb 14, 2019 |
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Feb 14, 2019 11:35
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gog is such a hosed up creep it's gonna be cool when she gets real screentime
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Feb 14, 2019 11:47
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Joe Slowboat posted:
Does there? There's not really any problem being solved by the Demiurges, the Universe doesn't need ruling, and incredibly conveniently all multiversal transit relies on them personally.
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Feb 14, 2019 13:45
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:Does there? There's not really any problem being solved by the Demiurges, the Universe doesn't need ruling, and incredibly conveniently all multiversal transit relies on them personally. The "problem" is likely the power vacuum if the demiurges are removed.
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Feb 14, 2019 18:16
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I was actually thinking of the power vacuum but also the immense sprawling cosmic empires they own which are going to keep doing their thing just without a cosmic tier tyrant. Locally sourced chaos and oppression. Even closing all the gates won't help anything but the unopened worlds. E: like, I guess we could leave hundreds of thousands of worlds in chaos and ruled by demiurge-wannabe lieutenants reproducing the same kind of monstrosity that makes taking down the demiurges a moral good, but... kind of a bummer, right? Joe Slowboat fucked around with this message at 18:47 on Feb 14, 2019 |
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Feb 14, 2019 18:45
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Joe Slowboat posted:I was actually thinking of the power vacuum but also the immense sprawling cosmic empires they own which are going to keep doing their thing just without a cosmic tier tyrant. Locally sourced chaos and oppression. Even closing all the gates won't help anything but the unopened worlds. As opposed to leaving them all ruled by one demiurge-wannabe reproducing the same kind of monstrosity that made taking down the demiurges a moral good? There's literally nothing that would make Allison a "better" ruler than all of these guys were. She's not some incorruptible paragon of justice set against the malicious forces of Evil, they're a bunch of heroes who thought they could use absolute power as a hammer to force the universe to be better under their enlightened rule, and hosed it all up instead. It's just such an oddly despairing view of the world that you can only replace a tyrant with another tyrant, especially in a setting that was firmly established to have been trucking along just fine (inasmuch as things are ever fine) until these assholes showed up and decided what it all needed was someone on a throne pushing everyone around.
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Feb 14, 2019 19:16
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what if she rules the universe in the sense of "if i hear youre being a powerhungry rear end in a top hat im going to come gently caress you up dont bother me with the details of how you live your lives otherwise"
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Feb 14, 2019 19:32
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like half of the setting of ksbd is made of itinerant knights and kung fu masters doing precisely that. There's worse ways to make a living, but I suspect even life as a usurper God who only comes down to smite bad rulers would turn your brain rancid in short order, that's pretty much what Elliott Abrams seems to tell himself he does. YISUN's defining act was in relinquishing control, so the universe could exist. A Wizard of Goatse fucked around with this message at 20:10 on Feb 14, 2019 |
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Feb 14, 2019 19:59
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Joe Slowboat posted:I was actually thinking of the power vacuum but also the immense sprawling cosmic empires they own which are going to keep doing their thing just without a cosmic tier tyrant. Locally sourced chaos and oppression. Even closing all the gates won't help anything but the unopened worlds. Think of it as leaving the multiverse to deal with a much more easily removable class of tyrant.
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Feb 14, 2019 20:01
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i keep starting a post and then realizing the point im responding to is so nonsensical that it does a better job of refuting itself than my clumsy attempts can
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Feb 14, 2019 20:18
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My money is on Allison doing something final with the keys that removes them from play and walking away from power. Basically a more final version of what Maya did. E: Actually, is there any reason not to think that Maya just killed the previous holder of Incubus’s key and never took it? Dr Subterfuge fucked around with this message at 14:39 on Feb 15, 2019 |
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Feb 14, 2019 20:20
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:YISUN's defining act was in relinquishing control, so the universe could exist. Even moreso, YISUN saw humanity's mortality and said, "Wow! Dying! That's a GREAT idea." Very telling that one of the defining goals of Demiurges happens to be eternal life. And they wonder why they can't achieve royalty...
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Feb 14, 2019 20:40
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Permanently link all the gates of creation and put a permanent hard cap on lifespan. Solves half the problem.
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Feb 14, 2019 20:52
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