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Sgt Fox posted:"Well, mine is still really torquey." There are plenty of things that can be said about the Mazda B8/BP engines, but noone in their right mind would ever call it "torquey". A couple weekends ago, we did the final 24hr race in our Mazda 323 (with the lovely BP in it). It went rather well but with a lot of short stops. Black flags for violating rules we didn't know about, electric issues, brake failures, flat tires, and one case of having to repair collision damage. The last few hours was just babying it to the finish, as we were low on brake pads and tires and the left driveshaft was making noises suggesting it was trying to disembark. But we finished, in 11th place out of 60 starting. 582 laps. 
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Nov 2, 2018 15:09
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ionn posted:There are plenty of things that can be said about the Mazda B8/BP engines, but noone in their right mind would ever call it "torquey". Possibly compared to honda engines of similar vintages.
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Nov 2, 2018 17:30
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Sgt Fox posted:A guy came by the other day to buy the old 323 radiator off me. Kinda weird that a 323/BG enthusiast was surprised by your swap, people have been doing it forever now.
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Nov 2, 2018 17:34
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That's a clean 323.
Thanks.
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ionn posted:There are plenty of things that can be said about the Mazda B8/BP engines, but noone in their right mind would ever call it "torquey". That looks great and 582 laps sounds mechanically grueling, well done.
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Nov 2, 2018 22:51
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ionn posted:There are plenty of things that can be said about the Mazda B8/BP engines, but noone in their right mind would ever call it "torquey". Try slipping an s2000 into traffic in first gear without touching the accelerator and compare that to an NA miata with the 1.8. There, it's torquey compared to that 
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Nov 5, 2018 18:55
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If that's the comparison metric, so is an ACVW
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Nov 5, 2018 23:57
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The gas pedal broke on my TDI in traffic and I was able to shift up to 4th gear and get it to a parking lot It was right before Christmas and a lot of people were honking at me for going slow. Nice Christmas spirit, jerks.
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Nov 6, 2018 08:00
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1000km have passed since I started up the KLZE for the first time. Decided it was time for its first oil change and service. Figured I would check the plugs to see how the ECU was running (the wideband had been showing the car was pretty much always running in closed loop, even when you romped on it, the ecu was fast enough to follow) Plugs were all consistent and looked reasonable:  Around this time, a guy back east asked if I would fix up some of his ecus for the KLZE. He shipped four to me, I fixed two and kept two as payment. I tested them all, and now have been able to modify a KL48/KL55, two KL57, a KL01 and a KL07. The KL01 and KL07 are the best candidates for modification, as all their maps match perfectly in size. I never heard back from him after sending them back, odd but hopefully they worked out for him. Seemed a bit rude. I commenced stripping on the MX-3. The thing really was just gross. Even after vacuuming out all the tree bits, there sludge over the entire engine bay.   Hiding behind the front bumper was the condenser. I would need a new one as this was very corroded. I knew this anyway, as I planned to get a new compressor, drier, condenser and expansion valve from the start. The system still had some pressure though, and held vacuum perfectly, so at least it was untouched.  Crusty fittings, I guess the salt from the mountain town where this car came from had not played well with the aluminum over the years.  They did come apart with a little heat, but instead of unscrewing, the aluminum threads just kind of tore off on these two hardline sections. Luckily, the fittings were only damaged between these lines and the condenser, the threads between the body hardlines and these were fine. I would need to get some lines made up to connect the new condenser to the drier and compressor body lines instead. I was really upset at first that these lines were damaged, but as the MX-3 mounts the condenser 6" further out from the 323, these hardlines were too long anyway. The frame rails from about 10" forward of the strut towers are different as well, so while I could use the hardlines from the towers back, the part going to the condenser would not fit in anyway. Flexible hoses will work much better, and will follow the frame passthrough cuts which were already there for the factory 323 system. I also learned that RockAuto sells crimp on metric AC fittings, but doesn't list them in their universal parts. You have to find the part number on the 4 Seasons website and then search RockAuto by part number.  The compressor was equally disgusting:  It is probably rebuildable, so while I will buy a reman for now, I'll save it for the future. Receiver drier. One of the damaged hard lines connected directly to the drier. The hardlines from the firewall to the drier came apart fine, and would fit the 323 chassis.  Routing of hardline back to the firewall.   The other damaged hardline, connecting to the compressor hose. I will just cut the ferrel off the compressor fitting, and replace the hose and hardline with a continuous hose to the condenser.  Suction hose from the compressor to the firewall. This would be reusable as well.   Four relays for the AC fan setup:  I also tore the dash out. The Mazda EPC showed different part numbers for everything under the dash on the 94+, including the evaporator box. Of course, they used the same parts diagram, but just changed the part numbers. I knew the heater and blower box would be different, as they switched from a cable actuated system to an electric one. There are no actuators on the evaporator box, so I would have assumed that to have the same part numbers. Oddly enough the pre-94 MX-3 used the same part numbers as the 323s (B prefix), but the later ones got their own EA prefix part numbers instead. I was hoping it would all fit, as no one has ever mentioned they tried swapping them. Since the later MX-3 got R-134a, I think they updated the part numbers at that time. Heater box. This unit was white plastic, but appeared to have the same external dimensions and fittings of the earlier MX-3 and 323 boxes. The 323/MX-3 cable actuated boxes have all been made from black plastic. You can see the evaporator box to the right.  Evaporator box and blower motor. Again, the electronic actuated box is white for some reason.  In a non-ac car, the evaporator box is replaced by a simple duct to connect the blower to the heater box. The AC stuff interestingly was all tagged as made in the USA. The fasteners used were also slightly different, smaller flange nuts were used for example. I wonder if these were ever dealer installed.
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Nov 8, 2018 22:22
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Now that I had all the AC parts removed, it was time to clean them up and see what condition everything was in. First up was the AC hardlines. A reminder of what condition they were in:  Those were the two damaged lines, but everything was in similar condition; corroded and covered in a mildew of some sort. After a lot of scrubbing with scotchbite and some solvent, I was left with these:  Honestly, they came out great. The factory part number tags cleaned up as well, I decided to leave them on for a factory look. The crusty compressor mount was glass beaded and clearcoated:  Painted the mounting bolts as well, and fit it up to see how it would work.  Next up was the evaporator core. Since it was out, I decided to replace the expansion valve. The core itself looked in good shape. They seem to build them well. Some minor dust and organic matter was removed from the fins.   Fitted back into the box.  Painted the clips for the box and reassembled.   Cleaned up the blower motor box as well. I had to swap the flapper doors from the old 323 box, as the foam on the MX-3 one was destroyed. After regreasing all the pivot points, it looked great.  I also swapped the 323 heater core into the MX-3 electric heater box. The main difference is that the 323 outlet/inlet are straight, whereas the MX-3 has a 45 degree output angle.  Now for the moment of truth. Would the electronic boxes fit in the 323 chassis?   Yes they did. This is now the third time I've taken the dash out.
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Dec 5, 2018 23:40
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You are a crazy person, and because of that I love this car and thread. 
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Dec 6, 2018 13:40
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Having confirmed the HVAC boxes from the late generation MX-3 would fit in my chassis, I could proceed with making permanent modifications to get the rest of the car to fit. The new boxes were all electronically controlled, so after studying the electrical wiring diagrams, I decided it would be easiest to remove the AC and HVAC wires from the MX-3 harness and splice and wrap them up in my already modified V6 323 harness. Out came the gloves and scalpel, and I started the wonderfully sticky task of unwrapping yet another wiring harness. I got lucky on some of the AC portion of the harness. It was done as a separate add-on from the factory, which meant it just plugged into unused ports on the fuse box:  The 323 fuse box has some different connections, but they could still be adapted to work. At the same time, I added a couple more circuits to the underhood and cabin fuse boxes, one for fog lights and another for other accessories down the road. I also discovered the MX-3 had factory electric door locks. There is a switch on the driver's lock which provides a signal to an actuator on the passenger door. The system is simple; the passenger door lock basically follows whatever state the driver's door is in. No lock or unlock switches. Now, the 323 locks were similar, but lacked the mounting locations for the switch and actuator. I drilled out the spot welds and rivets on the lock mechanisms, and welded them back together so the 323 could accept the MX-3 wiring. Sadly, I never took any pictures, but it took me a few hours to work it all out. Perhaps one of the more tricky parts of this build so far. I had also noticed an oil leak since I had been driving the car more. Both valve cover gaskets were weeping significantly. I had used some cheap ITM branded gaskets and after some googling, I learned these engines like to leak. I ordered some Mahle gaskets, which were made in Japan and some ultra grey gasket making RTV and got to work taking the intake off again.     It turns out that in the MX-3 manual, for the K8 engine, it states to use no sealant, but in the MX-6 manual, for the KLDE, they suggest a light coat of RTV. The MX-6 manual came out later, so Mazda must have had problems with leaks themselves. It was actually helpful to take the intake off, as it gave me more room to work on the AC piping. Next, it was time to come up with some sort of mount for my condenser. The stock 323 condenser mounted between the headlights, in front of the radiator, in the location I had mounted my radiator. I would need to push my condenser further forward, and trim the grill to give me more room. A reminder of how much room I have:  Not much. Oh well, I will mount the condenser as close to the radiator as possible and then go from there. I cut off the MX-3 condensor mounts from the MX-3 chassis and got to work welding them up to the 323 crossmember.   A little bit of paint later:  This allowed me to retain the rubber isolator feet from the MX-3 condenser. I was also able to modify the upper mounts to fit with my custom radiator supports.  Quickly put together to see how it would fit:  I had to trim a bit of the plastic behind the grill, but it doesn't change the look at all. It should work quite well. Next up, cooling fans and some other type of power steering cooler setup. The shape of the stock one fouls on the condenser. Sgt Fox fucked around with this message at 02:43 on Jan 9, 2019 |
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Jan 9, 2019 01:06
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That intake needs some wrinkle black paint on it. Also, gat drat this who car is gorgeous.
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Jan 12, 2019 05:27
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Yay, someone is still reading, thanks for the compliment. I know most people probably are not too interested in the AC stuff. The intake is glass beaded and clearcoated, its hard to see in that photo. The valve covers have the red wrinkle paint on them. I thought the cleared aluminum added a bit of contrast to the black hoses and brackets and the red covers. I do have black wrinkle on the BMW intake piping though. 
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Jan 13, 2019 06:41
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Sgt Fox posted:Yay, someone is still reading, thanks for the compliment. I know most people probably are not too interested in the AC stuff. This thread is great, I just don't have anything to add so I don't post. All the little details are what makes it interesting, so even the A/C stuff is good, IMO.
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Jan 13, 2019 07:05
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I read this thread religiously when you update, I don't know whether it's the devotion to making the best possible 323 or the increasingly clever ways you do so but it's a good project, usually though I've nothing useful to say. Please keep updating?
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Jan 13, 2019 08:55
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Outside of the ECM, the AC stuff is the most interesting to me. Why? I'd like to play Hondalegos again with some 80s and early 90s Civics at some point, and it gets cramped in a hurry under the hood when you toss in an H or K series and a turbo - it's nice to see how people retain it with cramped builds. A/C is a must have for me, second only behind a running engine. Like everyone else, I don't have anything to add beyond fistbumps.
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Jan 13, 2019 10:29
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Anybody who does a motor swap and pays to details like a/c and making everything work like it were an oem vehicle is awesome in my book.
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Jan 13, 2019 13:45
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Suburban Dad posted:Anybody who does a motor swap and pays to details like a/c and making everything work like it were an oem vehicle is awesome in my book. This. You're doing work beyond my time, patience, and expertise, and I'm always glad to read it.
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Jan 13, 2019 13:53
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Also keeping up with this project, also love your work playing oem Legos.
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Jan 13, 2019 14:11
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Sgt Fox posted:I do have black wrinkle on the BMW intake piping though. It says something about this thread and build that on first read I just accepted that I'd missed out where you bolted those in the 323.
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Jan 13, 2019 16:39
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Sgt Fox posted:Yay, someone is still reading, thanks for the compliment. I know most people probably are not too interested in the AC stuff. I'm reading every post! This is one of my favourite build threads - the attention to detail and the time spent on things that most people would have given up on (those ECU tables, holy gently caress!) I meant to comment earlier about the AC install - the fabrication work for the condenser looks great, the same sort of thing that the factory would do. I love these motors, my first car was a BA 323f (not sure if ever made it to North America?), I always wanted to put a KL-ZE in it! I visited it again when looking for a Mazda motor to put in a RX8, but settled for the Jaguar/Ford V6 instead (which was derived from the KL engines!). tl;dr: Great project, keep it up! Pomp and Circumcized fucked around with this message at 23:43 on Jan 22, 2019 |
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Jan 13, 2019 17:07
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Suburban Dad posted:Anybody who does a motor swap and pays to details like a/c and making everything work like it were an oem vehicle is awesome in my book. Yep. Your work and attention to detail is awesome Sgt. Fox. Keep it up.
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Jan 13, 2019 17:09
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Raluek posted:This thread is great, I just don't have anything to add so I don't post. I'm here too.
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Jan 13, 2019 17:25
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Here for the BG 323 porn 
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Jan 13, 2019 18:14
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Yea this thread is great and I read it every time it's updated but don't always have anything to say besides it looks awesome cause it does. Everything is done right like it should be.
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Jan 13, 2019 19:01
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Awesome, thanks guys. Glad to hear everyone is still enjoying the project, so I'll keep updating as I have time. One of my favorite parts of this project is making everything look stock. Its rewarding when you can modify something and someone just doing a casual inspection misses the extent of whats really changed.
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Jan 14, 2019 05:26
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I really want to powder coat that intake Alloy Silver....
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Jan 14, 2019 06:50
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 crew representing
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Jan 14, 2019 07:16
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cakesmith handyman posted:I read this thread religiously when you update, I don't know whether it's the devotion to making the best possible 323 or the increasingly clever ways you do so but it's a good project, usually though I've nothing useful to say. Please keep updating? This is one of the best curated automotive DIY threads I have seen on the internet period! I've actually described your work with the ECU to a few friends who considered buying an account just to get around the paywall, so please do not think your efforts to document your work go unappreciated.
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Jan 24, 2019 20:02
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Now that the condenser was mounted where it had to go, we had a couple issues. - The power steering cooling loop was bent in such a way that it would not lay flat in front of the condenser. It was twisted backwards to fit into the front grill. If I moved it out further, the tube would foul on the bumper support bar. - The hood latch support brace fouls on the condenser. It is removed in the earlier pictures, but is necessary to reinforce the latch from twisting down when the hood is shut. It is especially critical now that the rad support has been cut out. - The Toyota electric fan no longer fits between the radiator and the crash bar. It also is probably inadequate due to the condenser increasing the heat load.  A clear shot of the interference on the power steering cooler. If I bend the cooler flat, there will still be no room for fans. For now, it will be removed while we mock up the fans.  I decided to use a pair of single speed 10" low profile fans. Cheap and readily available off Amazon (except in Canada, I picked these up from an Amazon locker in the USA on a work trip). Given my tight clearances, slim was very important. I drilled some holes and bolted them together at the center to become one unit. I also applied stickbacked foam to any parts which would be in contact with the condenser.  I mounted them as a test fit:   Not so bad. I don't like the mounting hardware, for the final install I added zap ties as a stop to keep the round keepers on the long plastic pieces. The fan motors fouled on the crash bar unfortunately. I could just get it to fit, but it put more pressure on the condenser than I was comfortable with. Instead, I would rather the condenser and fan assembly could float on their rubber isolators. Out came the holesaw and die grinder:  I was really torn on cutting into this bar. I didn't want to reduce the structural integrity of the bar, but there was no other option. Next, I had to get really creative with the hood latch. I used the top part of the 323 bar, the lower part of the MX-3 bar and then turned the middle part of the 323 bar inside out and welded them together with some stiffener pieces.  It looks absolutely bizarre.  But, it does fit!   It even clears the crash bar! 
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Jan 25, 2019 19:36
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That's a nice setup. The V6 323 I saw in the Pick N Pull lot was clearly a Taurus electric fan that they had to trim chunks out of the front of the car (including headlight housings) to fit. That hood latch is something else.
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Jan 25, 2019 19:49
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Next, it was time to turn my attention to the power steering cooler. The stock 323 and MX-3 used a loop of hardline in front of the radiator.  You can see the MX-3 shape here. It also isn't suitable.  There just wasn't enough room to fit it in between the bumper cover, the new electric fans and the new hood latch support. I did however have a significant space beside the radiator, under the headlight which was free. I thought I would try to find a finned cooler, which would be smaller and fit in that space. Although my total system fluid volume would be reduced, I figured the increased surface area from the fins would make up for it. I took some measurements and got to google image search/rockauto random vehicle shopping.   After a few hours of searching, I found this guy, a Dorman 918319:  It was off a 1996-2014 Ford E-250 4.6L V8 van. Best part, it was readily available in town/Canada for $15. It would fit perfectly in the space beside the radiator, and the tubing diameter in the main portion with the fins was just a bit larger than the stock cooler. I didn't want to have any AN fittings to keep it looking stock, and the price of aftermarket coolers were high. There was one problem however. The hoses on a Ford Econovan are imperial and significantly smaller than the stock Mazda lines. I didn't want to create a flow restriction, so I would need to cut off the existing Ford nips. Out came the hacksaw. I also turned some aluminum tube down in the lathe to a metric OD.  I used some Devcon aluminum epoxy to secure the fittings. I had thought about brazing them on, but the Devcon stuff was pretty decent. Its mostly powdered aluminum and cures to a machinable compound. https://itwperformancepolymers.com/products/devcon/devcon-products/devcon-aluminum-putty-f  Next, I reformed the mounting ears to fit the 323 and gave it a coat of high temp paint:  Finally, I cut some of the old hardline cooler and used some extra hose from the MX-3 to connect it all up.   Just clears:   (Forget you see a yellow foglight - thats a future post)
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Feb 14, 2019 23:22
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How common is this sort of setup and does it do anything worthwhile? My Mustang has a loop like that, I think it's a cooler for the manual transmission but maybe I've been wrong this whole time. It looks useless.
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Feb 15, 2019 03:27
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thebigcow posted:How common is this sort of setup and does it do anything worthwhile? My Mustang has a loop like that, I think it's a cooler for the manual transmission but maybe I've been wrong this whole time. It looks useless. I would bet its probably a power steering cooler loop. Manual trans/diff coolers are not a thing outside of an all out race car. Most auto trans coolers are in the radiator too... The loops work both from having extra fluid in the system, thus a greater thermal mass, and from some heat transfer to the air. The fluid heats up most when the load is highest on the steering system, for example turning while stationary. The cooler gives it a chance to cool afterwards. They are on many cars, so the loops do work.
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Feb 15, 2019 03:52
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Yup, the surface area of the tubes + radiator fan airflow does more than you'd think.
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Feb 15, 2019 04:01
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You live in Canada tho, do you think you really need it? 
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Feb 15, 2019 04:04
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Applebees Appetizer posted:You live in Canada tho, do you think you really need it? The same could be said about the AC install...
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Feb 15, 2019 04:29
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Well hey I bet that a/c system would work great down here in Florida, you don't need that car I'll come get it ok
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Feb 15, 2019 04:37
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Sgt Fox posted:They are on many cars, so the loops do work. They certainly do work and serve a purpose, but it's kind of a "worst case scenario / just to be safe" deal, for whatever conditions the car is designed to handle (doing a 49-point turn in a parking lot on a hot summer day in Arizona or whatever). While many cars don't have them, most car manufacturers seem to have come out on the side of it being worth the cost of having them there despite most people probably never really having any use for them. On our last Mazda 323 junk racer we had very good use of that loop though , to zip-tie the front license plate to after slightly crashing it during the race (though we still finished) and having to drive it home 230km on public roads afterwards.  The left headlight is from some kind of Opel, and did leave a bit of a panel gap.
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Feb 15, 2019 08:05
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It’s strange. This whole thread I’ve been mashing the “like” button as hard as my little fingers can but I don’t see any giant thumbs up!
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Feb 15, 2019 13:30
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