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infernal machines posted:It raises some questions about the timing of the amber alert as well. It was hours after she was reported missing, but evidently before they checked his residence? I'm unclear on the timeline for this, or I probably have some details confused. 3 pm Daughter gets dropped off to her Dad at a gas station in Mississauga 7 pm Mom alerts the police that Dad is saying scary things/threatening to kill Daughter. 11 pm Amber Alert is issued after police do preliminary investigations. 12 am Police find Daughter's body at around midnight in Brampton duplex that was probably rented by Father, suggests CTV news. - Father was caught in Orillia based on tips from the Amber Alert. Yeah I mean, it sounds like it was too late to change anything. But they got the guy. It just is a matter of how much convenience you're willing to give up for security, but I think maybe police were irresponsible about calling the Alert/not finding his residence fast enough. E: forgot that pm turns to am at 12 Toalpaz fucked around with this message at 17:36 on Feb 15, 2019 |
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Feb 15, 2019 17:29
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So they triggered an amber alert but it was actually just a very public APB.
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Feb 15, 2019 17:34
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There's a lot of people shouting past each other in this thread. Can we agree that the system is incredibly useful and saves lives but also there could be some minor tweaks that can make it less disruptive without reducing its effectiveness?
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Feb 15, 2019 17:36
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It might save lives, so far it's not actually doing so well on that front. Personally, I'm not bothered about the disruptiveness, I'd just prefer it if the CRTC and local law enforcement were on the same page about how and why this mandatory alert system is used.
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Feb 15, 2019 17:39
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infernal machines posted:So they triggered an amber alert but it was actually just a very public APB. To me it reads like they were on the way to the Brampton residence/getting a warrant or something to get in while the Alert was being issued so yeah. It's hard not to get that kind of feeling. Actually the globe has more specific times that say police issued the alert at 11:30 and found her body at 11:50, twenty minutes later. They were about to find her and issued the alert anyways probably in anticipation of the manhunt or not finding her. It's something to think about at least. https://globalnews.ca/news/4964199/amber-alert-peel-police-mississauga/ Yeah and a very public APB is not appropriate really.
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Feb 15, 2019 17:40
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My phone was on silent and I didn't get an audible alarm, although I did get a popup while chatting on discord. And I do have an option on my Pixel 3 to turn off emergency/government alerts as well, but no idea if that works or not (I'm keeping it on). There's criteria before they can send out an alert and if all those boxes are checked then it's pretty goddamn horrible to get angry about it. It's a loving kid.
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Feb 15, 2019 17:41
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acumen posted:My phone was on silent and I didn't get an audible alarm, although I did get a popup while chatting on discord. And I do have an option on my Pixel 3 to turn off emergency/government alerts as well, but no idea if that works or not (I'm keeping it on). That's the disconnect though, AMBER Alert and the Emergency Cell Alert System are two different things right now
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Feb 15, 2019 17:42
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Why isn't anyone thinking of the children?
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Feb 15, 2019 17:43
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infernal machines posted:Why isn't anyone thinking of the children? Because I HATE the children 
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Feb 15, 2019 17:47
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Arivia posted:No, I’m not. They used the emergency blaring alert noise that’s guaranteed to get your attention and stress you out. This noise cannot be muted or turned down. They used this noise late at night when most people are sleeping or getting ready to sleep - and are certainly not looking out for vehicles on the 401. The world doesn't cater to you or anyone. Your demand for perfect execution is fucktardy.
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Feb 15, 2019 17:52
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Big Changus wants to bring the pain re: Sidewalk Labs' latest attempt to take over the Toronto Port Landsquote:“This looks like it was set up through back-room channels and I think we need to definitely stop this project now on its tracks and get some accountability,” Angus said, adding when the Google lobbyists showed up as his door they made it seem like the project was going to be fun. “They presented to us a really neat little project, a little experiment. They never came clean about the overall picture, which is turning over to a massive American corporation, public revenues, public oversight of some of the most prime real estate in the world,” Angus said. “Google has gotten away with it because they have a very very comfy, cozy relationship with all the senior representatives, at least in the Liberal government, and the two other levels of government, we need to see some accountability as well.”
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Feb 15, 2019 17:58
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What the gently caress is wrong with some of you people? Turn off your goddamn phone or turn off the cellular link if you need your goddamn sleep timers.
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Feb 15, 2019 18:19
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The alert system is dumb when people who live thousands of kilometers away are getting bothered by something that has no effect on them. It leads to people ignoring and dismissing them, which is a problem when a real emergency happens. It would be pointless to use it for emergencies in Dallas TX, but they're closer to here than where this one came from. Not using the maximum priority, nuclear war is commencing, tier is probably a good idea too. I think the other alert tiers are supposed to utilize less offensive notifications, so of you're sleeping you'll at least see something when you wake up and you'll keep an eye out for it on your morning drive. The 853+960hz tone is actually made to be as unsettling and unnerving as possible, so I'm not surprised about people being upset about it. This is the kind of thing that ends up having the opposite effect later on down the line, imo.
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Feb 15, 2019 18:25
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Where are you that's more than 2000KM from Toronto and also received this alert?
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Feb 15, 2019 18:29
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I'm on Telus with a Pixel 3, had it on DND mode and silent, and there was no alarm. My girlfriend's iPhone 6 on rogers, also on silent mode, did not make a noise either. So, ymmv.
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Feb 15, 2019 18:34
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I've never gotten an amber alert before so it was kinda novel. I read it, then dismissed it, because I don't care. Calling people a monster for being pissed is pretty funny considering the people doing the calling out, though.
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Feb 15, 2019 18:39
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infernal machines posted:Where are you that's more than 2000KM from Toronto and also received this alert? It was sent across Manitoba, which would take a car driving way over the speed limit and through multiple US/Canada border crossings to get here in less than two days. I'm not really upset about the annoyance of it, but more that it's being utilized poorly and will end up with people ignoring them on reflex, which is exactly what you don't want to see with such a useful system.
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Feb 15, 2019 18:44
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http://i.thinimg.com/img/7a8v.jpg It used the presidential alert setting (my phone is not running Canada specific ROM) rather than the Amber alert. And yes I'm a monster who doesn't want them because I don't leave my apartment and am a sad sack so gently caress of with judging me for not giving a poo poo about kids tia.
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Feb 15, 2019 18:48
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Coxswain Balls posted:It was sent across Manitoba, which would take a car driving way over the speed limit and through multiple US/Canada border crossings to get here in less than two days. Oh geez. That's loving ridiculous. I thought it was Ontario only.
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Feb 15, 2019 18:49
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I remember the first amber alert caused my soul to leave my body and I was a ghost temporarily. I'm not opposed to the idea of them but I think they can be implemented better. I think a text message or something along those lines would be better since they could attach a photo of said child. So people who are awake will see it and can keep an eye out and people who are sleeping will not be jarred awake before immediately going back to sleep anyways. I don't think the people being irritated by the system scaring the poo poo out of you while trying to sleep are monsters or anything. I know some people who have crazy insomnia and being taken out of your sleep can be very infuriating and stressful. Let's all love each other everyone 
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Feb 15, 2019 18:49
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This ties in to something else I've been thinking about since I moved to downtown Toronto. There are so many fire trucks and ambulances at all hours of the day that the sirens are basically background noise. I can't pay attention to them all, because there are so many at a time, and the siren is rarely actually near me. If you overuse the national alarm system, then people will just tune them all out. Since I have a rooted phone I can actually just disable them, which I did after the last one, and I didn't get this one! In my experience as a lovely tech bro, who has a pagerduty rotation, alerts need to be actionable. Sending it to people who can't act on it is effectively spam, and abusive because it undermines the system for the actionable things.
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Feb 15, 2019 18:56
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I had some friends visiting some family somewhere in south asia, I want to say Indonesia, and their relatives phone was constantly blowing up with official government alerts. BEEP BEEP terrorism alert! Suspected bombing in a town hours away from you! BEEP BEEP BEEP curfew in effect on some town on a whole different island. BEEP BEEP crime alert everyone be on watch for these suspected terrorists! BEEP BEEP missing children 500km away! You're not supposed to disable them, but most people do due to the very real danger of alarm fatigue. It's a huge problem in hospitals and things where liability concerns means every single loving computer screen and piece of equipment is barfing dozens of CRITICAL WARNINGS at you at all times so people end up tuning it all out, disabling them, and thus miss the rare important ones. I've never gotten any sort of alert on my phone. It once made a terrible sound and was just a test of some tsunami warning system. I think we're a long way aways from worrying about some sort of alarm slippery slope where we're getting an air raid siren every time there is a crime anywhere in the province, but all it takes is a few false alarms or situations where people feel the system is being overused and they'll do what they can to shut them off, and then miss the rare relevant ones.
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Feb 15, 2019 18:56
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Isn't there a way to select which cell towers send out the message? I'm in Brandon, Manitoba and it was weird to get an Amber Alert about a car heading East out of Toronto
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Feb 15, 2019 19:02
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I think they have rather broad geographical regions they can choose, but choosing Manitoba is just bizarre. Did they alert Quebec too? At least that would have made some sense.
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Feb 15, 2019 19:07
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DariusLikewise posted:Isn't there a way to select which cell towers send out the message? I'm in Brandon, Manitoba and it was weird to get an Amber Alert about a car heading East out of Toronto There is, but I think that utilizes the Wireless Emergency Alert protocol that's baked into modern phones. Whoever's in charge of the Canadian implementation doesn't like the fact that you can opt out of lower priority alerts, so they blast everything out as a Presidential Address. I don't think the kind of person who opts out of those for whatever reason is going to be on the lookout for whatever the amber alert is intended for, so it honestly ends up doing more harm than good in the long run.
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Feb 15, 2019 19:08
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e due to wrongness
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Feb 15, 2019 19:09
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I didn't realize that was going on in Toronto. I skimmed it and read "east" so I assumed it happened in Saskatchewan. Maybe, uh, what's the word? Pinpoint the locations to send the alert to a little better as well.
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Feb 15, 2019 19:09
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xtal posted:e due to wrongness Brampton's finest. infernal machines fucked around with this message at 19:14 on Feb 15, 2019 |
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Feb 15, 2019 19:11
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I was kind of surprised that they used the "incoming nukes; make peace with your loved ones" alert level for an amber alert and also the amber alert cancelled followup an hour later. It woke me up twice but I actually forgot about it until I read about it in this thread, lol.
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Feb 15, 2019 19:15
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infernal machines posted:Welp. Way to ruin a joke Sorry, I read an article about a different one: https://globalnews.ca/news/4457335/manitobans-have-mixed-reactions-to-overnight-amber-alert-cell-phone-notification/
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Feb 15, 2019 19:16
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Yeah, I think there are a few issues here: 1) The alert was not well-targeted 2) Based on the current timeline of events, it would have been vastly more likely to be helpful if sent earlier The use of this system to send the alert, though, seems quite reasonable, as does the inability to opt-out. You can slippery-slope this poo poo all you want, but the truth is that the Amber Alert system and the emergency alert system in general are not currently and have not in the past been abused.
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Feb 15, 2019 19:17
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BattleMaster posted:I was kind of surprised that they used the "incoming nukes; make peace with your loved ones" alert level for an amber alert and also the amber alert cancelled followup an hour later. It woke me up twice but I actually forgot about it until I read about it in this thread, lol. Right? It was seriously the MAJOR EMERGENCY noise. Actual nuclear war or a horror movie asking for nuclear war.
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Feb 15, 2019 19:17
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AMBER ALERT: You have no chance to survive make your time.PT6A posted:The use of this system to send the alert, though, seems quite reasonable, as does the inability to opt-out. You can slippery-slope this poo poo all you want, but the truth is that the Amber Alert system and the emergency alert system in general are not currently and have not in the past been abused. There's no slippery slope, just be honest about what it's going to be used for. If local law enforcement ends up scope creeping it outside of the original mandate then the CRTC should either prevent that or explain to the public what has changed and why. infernal machines fucked around with this message at 19:22 on Feb 15, 2019 |
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Feb 15, 2019 19:20
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PT6A posted:Yeah, I think there are a few issues here: It's not reasonable to send 2 blaring alarms to people in the middle of the night for something happening literally thousands of kilometres from them. Even if the idea is ok, the execution was completely botched, which means people are going to be more inclined to disregard messages that could be lifesaving in the future. A Typical Goon fucked around with this message at 19:26 on Feb 15, 2019 |
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Feb 15, 2019 19:21
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A Typical Goon posted:It's not reasonable to send a blaring alarm to people in the middle of the night for something happening literally thousands of kilometres from them. Have literally any of these alerts ever gone off correctly here? All of them have been badly targeted, not worked, missed Quebec, whatever.
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Feb 15, 2019 19:27
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https://twitter.com/VassyKapelos/status/1096421274694369286
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Feb 15, 2019 19:28
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infernal machines posted:I think they have rather broad geographical regions they can choose, but choosing Manitoba is just bizarre. Did they alert Quebec too? At least that would have made some sense. I didn't get an alert way up in la belle province so there's one data point. But I did get that test message months ago which scared the poo poo out of me even though I knew it was coming.
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Feb 15, 2019 19:32
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infernal machines posted:Big Changus wants to bring the pain re: Sidewalk Labs' latest attempt to take over the Toronto Port Lands Wait, so a whimsical "what if an ordinary thing but with computers" idea dreamed up in SV was poorly-conceived, expensive and riddled with security holes? Well I never.
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Feb 15, 2019 19:43
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Some crazy selfish takes in the thread on the whole amber alert system. Holy poo poo, I know the siren is annoying but if it has a chance of saving a kids life or capturing a kid killer, lets keep them going. I think everyone agrees the system could be more finely tuned though. Manitoba should not have gotten that alert.
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Feb 15, 2019 19:46
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flakeloaf posted:Wait, so a whimsical "what if an ordinary thing but with computers" idea dreamed up in SV was poorly-conceived, expensive and riddled with security holes? Also, absolutely everyone involved has been lying to each other and the public since day one, and the company has no ability to actually implement any of the promised features any way. 10/10 SV startup pitch zapplez posted:or capturing a kid killer, lets keep them going. Mob justice, when we use technology it's good! e: To be clearer, this is emphatically not what the amber alert system is for. infernal machines fucked around with this message at 19:54 on Feb 15, 2019 |
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Feb 15, 2019 19:47
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