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The Valley Stared posted:After two visits from the SevNAV and now the CNO, I am not unconvinced that current leadership thinks that we just need to keep learning from Silicon Valley because they have all the right ideas. How exactly does the Navy operate by fleecing investors with a nebulous social media concept before inevitably pivoting into adtech?
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# ? Feb 14, 2019 09:00 |
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# ? May 28, 2024 15:43 |
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florida lan posted:How exactly does the Navy operate by fleecing investors with a nebulous social media concept before inevitably pivoting into adtech? We're not talking about working with random start-ups that a couple of naive college grads poo poo out over a couple brewskis last weekend, the DoD is working with large, established companies. Google. Apple, VMWare, Juniper, GE, FedEx, DHL, just to name a few.
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# ? Feb 14, 2019 09:04 |
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I somehow feel like for a few years buttplug was less of a fart huffing Navy bootlicker. Maybe I just had him on block though. Hanging around silicon valley techbros will do that I guess.
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# ? Feb 14, 2019 12:32 |
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The Valley Stared posted:After two visits from the SevNAV and now the CNO, I am not unconvinced that current leadership thinks that we just need to keep learning from Silicon Valley because they have all the right ideas. Well thanks, and it’s probably best since I phrased it pretty aggressively. I’m still not entirely over my time as a deck seaman. And I know it’s already been said but after reading more about the collisions you were really the brightest spot among all the officers involved. Almost enough to make me consider putting SWO on my package for a second.
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# ? Feb 14, 2019 14:21 |
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Laranzu posted:I somehow feel like for a few years buttplug was less of a fart huffing Navy bootlicker. Maybe I just had him on block though. Come up to Mid-Bay away from the assholes, we smoke pot and gripe all the time. Also chuckling that buttplug is in spitting distance from me.
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# ? Feb 14, 2019 15:38 |
The Silicon Valley tech will do nothing to fix any of the navy's core problems. It will at best be an expensive bandaide and within expectation be even worse for the enlisted.
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# ? Feb 14, 2019 16:09 |
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It's just gonna be like when they were doing the big lean six push. Gonna spend a lot of money on something that does gently caress all, but an admiral will get a promotion out of it, so it will be labeled a success. Also how loving lame would it be to work with an active duty naval officer in the tech world?
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# ? Feb 14, 2019 19:54 |
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Laranzu posted:I somehow feel like for a few years buttplug was less of a fart huffing Navy bootlicker. Maybe I just had him on block though. no, really thats it.
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# ? Feb 14, 2019 21:41 |
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buttplug was shitposting back in the a/t thread and its impressive that he hasn't changed at all. I remember when he posted opplan information in a thread. I wonder if his opinions on kurds has improved at all, or if he still thinks they're cockroaches.
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# ? Feb 14, 2019 21:57 |
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Mr. Nice! posted:buttplug was shitposting back in the a/t thread and its impressive that he hasn't changed at all. I was discussing this with my wife this morning. It's strange to loathe the same person on the internet for 12 years but here we are.
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# ? Feb 14, 2019 22:03 |
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SpaceSDoorGunner posted:Well thanks, and it’s probably best since I phrased it pretty aggressively. I’m still not entirely over my time as a deck seaman.
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# ? Feb 14, 2019 23:23 |
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Do the other military branches have a generation of senior leaders that are silver haired ringknockers who are still mentally living their cold war year days? Only half joking here, after having read countless books about the transformations in the military since 2001 it seems to me that the other branches had to purge out their old ways of thinking to counter a new kind of threat, while the navy has been sidelined for the most part until very recently.
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# ? Feb 15, 2019 00:59 |
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SpaceSDoorGunner posted:Well thanks, and it’s probably best since I phrased it pretty aggressively. I’m still not entirely over my time as a deck seaman. Never forget. As for "cyber" defense, I am of the opinion that DoD needs more organic non-contract capability. buttplug, is that coming? After this degree, I would hire in as a cyber engineering officer (at a slightly advanced grade?) to be or lead 'sploits and mitigations people but it seems like that track doesn't actually exist for entry? How much of their minds did your Silicon Valley posse lose over Meltdown / Spectre? Dorstein fucked around with this message at 04:47 on Feb 15, 2019 |
# ? Feb 15, 2019 01:51 |
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Godholio posted:THEN gently caress HIM. PEOPLE HAVE DIED FOR THIS poo poo. That parenthetical in my poo poo post was meant to be explanatory, not to justify. It seems unlikely to me that someone who doesn't prioritize career over all of the other elements won't get beaten out by someone that does 95% of the time. When you're talking about flag level, there's too many dice rolls favouring that product--you're multiplying rare outcome by rare outcome over and over again. If you want out of that loop, you need to find a solution that somehow rewards honest admission, accurate prediction, and decisive action. Because you obviously want to pick those who accomplish more with less, you will select for those who a: are naturally or intentionally adept at maximizing the apparent outcome of their actions and b: tend to ignore risks that will make themselves appear unfavourably. You have to track not just action, but predictions, actions in support of which predictions, and their success. That system dangerously might require even more beauracratic load to function, or may fail to prioritize mission accomplishment. Regardless, I struggle to imagine a mechanism to implement such a system. I've heard it said that command is the only job in the military you can quit. If everyone who accurately communicates risk has to perform weakly against peers, reducing chance of promotion or quit in order to communicate that risk, that's what you'll be left with at the top. Push button promotions from O-1 to O-3 is probably the only reason we retain any honest and honourable talent past the first commitment despite the free rides it may give to the dregs along the way.
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# ? Feb 15, 2019 03:39 |
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M_Gargantua posted:The Silicon Valley tech will do nothing to fix any of the navy's core problems. Yes and no. It's not the tech in and of itself that's going to fix poo poo, it's the idea exchange and the relationships that will help fix some pretty fundamental issues. If you can't lure "top talent" out of tech, the next best thing is to build those relationships and leverage that talent to help solve big problems. An unindoctrinated, disinterested perspective on some of this poo poo is exactly what we need. Mind you, we're talking long-term technological challenges and dismantling/streamlining decades-old bureacracy to make procuring poo poo easier. It won't necessarily fix our over-reliance on mega defense contractors, and it won't help FN Timmy turn wrenches any better, but it certainly helps us ride the innovation curve a bit better. buttplug fucked around with this message at 04:36 on Feb 15, 2019 |
# ? Feb 15, 2019 04:32 |
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Laranzu posted:I was discussing this with my wife this morning. It's strange to loathe the same person on the internet for 12 years but here we are. You actually talk to your wife about people on Internet message boards? Seriously? Lol. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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# ? Feb 15, 2019 04:36 |
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Welp, guess I won't get an answer for a while. Let's go back to talking about how the admiralty are useless dicks who cover bad poo poo up until they transfer. I went to a party at a Canadian regiment house recently. Being in the same unit for your entire career seems to engender real military cultural differences from the US system. People take care of their poo poo, though I guess the trade-off is that bad cultural stuff is even harder to evict.
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# ? Feb 15, 2019 04:53 |
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piL posted:That parenthetical in my poo poo post was meant to be explanatory, not to justify. It seems unlikely to me that someone who doesn't prioritize career over all of the other elements won't get beaten out by someone that does 95% of the time. When you're talking about flag level, there's too many dice rolls favouring that product--you're multiplying rare outcome by rare outcome over and over again. Change can be top down, bottom up or inside out. It can also be sudden or gradual. The more sudden and extreme, the deeper you have to go and the harder it is. If you want everything changed, right now, you would need complete change on a culture level. That may not be possible without outside intervention. Bottom up would also be possible if it occurred on a scale like the Nore/Spithead Mutinies. The difficulty faced in such deep rooted change cannot be overstated. More recent case studies would be NASA's reaction to the Challenger/Columbia and, in fact, are pretty similar to the McCain/Fitz. It is possible to look for different leverage points in the system that can be used for more gradual change. I would think the most likely avenue would be middle out if mid-level officers can come together and find those points. Top has no incentive to change and conditions at the bottom would have to deteriorate to an extreme degree for a mutiny. This is just a guess though.
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# ? Feb 15, 2019 05:52 |
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Dorstein posted:
I disagree. You can just literally evict the problems either somewhere else or out and replace them with fresh personnel. There's a lot of highly capable talent that would still be in my current command/the navy if they weren't getting shafted or faced with getting shafted on orders. Even now people just end up PCSing across the street most times, so things don't really change you just lose good people for a dice roll on their replacement that won't show up for six months. Aviation wise at least the cultural differences are more wing or base related than unit. There's like 20 separate units in Lemoore, so quite a few people spend their entire careers there bouncing around so as far as I'm concerned that shits already in place so you might as well stop screwing people out of the place where they've built a life because that's just going to make everyone pissy.
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# ? Feb 15, 2019 08:50 |
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CMD598 posted:I disagree. You can just literally evict the problems either somewhere else or out and replace them with fresh personnel. I... said that? Apologies for not being clearer. I'm not saying you can't be a homesteader in the US military, just that it's not the default. Also that the incentive to cover busted stuff up until you leave isn't really present if you never leave.
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# ? Feb 15, 2019 09:51 |
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Dorstein posted:I... said that? Apologies for not being clearer. I went to TAPS outside of Annapolis, and upon learning that the MUs stationed there literally never leave, except on deployment "tours"; but they just buy a house and stay in Annapolis for 20-30 years playin' trumpets and oboes and poo poo blew my loving mind.
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# ? Feb 15, 2019 10:32 |
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Dorstein posted:I... said that? Apologies for not being clearer. I meant more the harder to fix things part.
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# ? Feb 15, 2019 10:46 |
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buttplug posted:You actually talk to your wife about people on Internet message boards? Seriously? Lol. How have you failed to grow as a person at all in the last 13 years since we had the proto-GiP A/T thread?
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# ? Feb 15, 2019 15:54 |
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EBB posted:How have you failed to grow as a person at all in the last 13 years since we had the proto-GiP A/T thread? Some people take their fake internet names seriously. It becomes part of who they are.
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# ? Feb 15, 2019 16:21 |
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Sir this is an Applebees
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# ? Feb 15, 2019 18:06 |
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https://publicpool.kinja.com/subject-presidential-proclamation-on-declaring-a-natio-1832656353 Ahahaha I cant wait to get mobilized for this stupid loving racist monument to abject stupidity.
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# ? Feb 15, 2019 20:32 |
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Woo woo! The defining moment in my career!
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# ? Feb 15, 2019 21:11 |
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LingcodKilla posted:Woo woo! I look forward to shoveling dirt with you friend.
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# ? Feb 15, 2019 21:13 |
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PneumonicBook posted:I look forward to shoveling dirt with you friend. Operation Move Useless Dirt is a go!
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# ? Feb 15, 2019 22:16 |
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McNally posted:Some people take their fake internet names seriously. It becomes part of who they are. Can confirm.
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# ? Feb 15, 2019 23:00 |
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As a former FDNF sailor, I knew that things were rough out there, but wow that second Propublica article (https://features.propublica.org/navy-accidents/us-navy-crashes-japan-cause-mccain) really highlights how institutionally screwed the Navy is. Other than firing all of the old brass into the sun, what's the fix? Some new ships/capabilities are certainly needed, but it seems everything circles back to manpower. The article alluded to the U.S. based ships being "green/set" on manpower, but is that even true? On the IW side of the house, I'm kind of seeing a similar trend with leadership buying more equipment and rogering up for mission their troops can't possibly sustain. The Navy is wanting to get (deeper) into the ISR gunclub and is getting ready to field Triton and a few other programs but haven't really carved out any manpower to actually do the GEOINT screening and analysis. Since there isn't really a central location to do it they're going to end up with little pockets of K10As trying to read it out and getting smoked since they don't have the Air Force manpower numbers to actually rotate folks on and off every three hours. Instead some Chief at a ground site is going to tell his kids to suck it up and then melt them the gently caress down by having them watch the ocean for 12 hours straight.
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# ? Feb 16, 2019 00:27 |
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I know that even in NECC commands manning is an issue. My unit is currently supplemented by reservists who just came off a mob to HOA/JEB. The experience is handy, and bodies immensely helpful, but it's a bandaid on a bullet hole. My unit is tasked with mission in 3 locations, but our equipment is 2008 original never overhauled, one of my engines reads over 9000 hours and has never been rebuilt. I regularly buy parts like connectors and whatnot because our OMMSNG and supply system is so hosed and archaic that even if the part was in OMMSNG, we may never see it because it sits on a shelf at group for years. Case in point, we recently received a pallet of trailer tires we ordered 2 years ago. Several other sailors have to do the same to keep the boats and trucks running to complete mission. The trucks need replacement badly. Massive safety hits like the rear view mirrors on our stake trucks used to tow our boats across town to the launch ramp falling off mid-traffic. But we've been told things will improve in 4-5 years when the PB40s get here. I don't hold my breathe. We have 24 bodies, OIC included. To move boats to prep for a mission we have to ferry them around town the day before. Then we still muster at 0330 some days to pick up comms, weapons, and ammo from 3 separate locations while trying to launch boats at a public ramp. So with just those 3 must have items the launch team in down 4 bodies. In a perfect navy I would grant this command 40 bodies OIC included, that would allow rotating crews for maintenance and launch/recover use, and allow those that are actually riding the waves and getting beat to poo poo on mission to show up, operate, and roll. So largely, yeah, manning is a massive issue. As the unit's lone ET, I can't get schools needed to provide the command the support it needs, I get leave approved only if there isn't a mission because no one else can access the comms as easily as I can; which is my own fault because I should train others, I understand. Even training falls to the side in favor of maintenance and putting out the little proverbial (and occasional literal) fires that come with mission days. The Navy is a wreck. Overspending on useless pet projects, enforcing frankly stupid requirements for advancing sailors (here's looking at you mandatory specialization pins like ESWS AND EXW), burning out reliable sailors while first classes aren't capable of holding gently caress ups accountable for being gently caress ups. The list goes on. My unit bases a good year on having less than 3 major investigations. That's loving pathetic. But the pace and expected scope of work dropped on us doesn't allow us the time to train, maintain, and enact the poo poo needed to actually fix the issues haunting us.
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# ? Feb 16, 2019 01:36 |
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Thronde posted:I know that even in NECC commands manning is an issue. My unit is currently supplemented by reservists who just came off a mob to HOA/JEB. The experience is handy, and bodies immensely helpful, but it's a bandaid on a bullet hole. My unit is tasked with mission in 3 locations, but our equipment is 2008 original never overhauled, one of my engines reads over 9000 hours and has never been rebuilt. All of this sounds like my experience when I was at CRS1. I was considered a pain in the rear end (and was later appreciated after stuff started getting better) for constantly saying "No," and raising poo poo fits when CRG held onto our stuff or didn't process our requests. I got them in deep poo poo for circumventing them and sending radios straight to Harris and they threw a shitfit and when people started looking deeper they receded back into their holes and started talking nice because they realized any real investigation would end up pointing back to them. During maintenance inspections I constantly dragged them under the bus with us, etc. etc. I lumped almost our entire inventory into cold storage and focused on training up a strong core of reservists over a one to two year period before we even started getting close to the path of recovery, and I'm almost 99% sure that the dipshit, lazy turd that took my position probably immediately reversed all of that effort. Command climate was a nightmare with something like half or more of the people there having to go see a therapist to verify that things were just awful and that they weren't going insane, the other half just coped with it by not investing too much care into it. Hang the people from Group from the castle walls if you need to, because they're not going to do poo poo for you until they know you'll drag their career through the mud just like they're doing to you.
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# ? Feb 16, 2019 07:05 |
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In a similar vein, I've got air hoses that have been in this squadron for years, so we get new ones ordered. The new ones came in about a month back, but a: they don't have fittings, and b: they're made for half inch fittings when everything(tools/wall fitting) is sized for quarter inch. The problem was solved by Amazoning some new cheap fittings for the old hoses since that's their only real problem. Thanks China! Also my actual work center is in a completely different building but no one gives a gently caress about getting us a printer so we can stop burning gas money traveling back and forth for small. Solution: ¥2000 for a used wireless standalone printer/copier,thanks Amazon!
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# ? Feb 16, 2019 09:48 |
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Providing workarounds enables the behavior. Please tell me it wasn't your own money.
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# ? Feb 16, 2019 14:20 |
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Laranzu posted:Providing workarounds enables the behavior. Please tell me it wasn't your own money. Yeah, this is my take as well. I've definitely had guys (including chiefs) talk about it before and I came down hard on it. I'd much rather they identify the problem in time that it can be properly documented and then I can throat punch the ISIC staff about doing their jobs and figuring out how to get it. If a tasking for your unit is truly that vital, then the Navy will get you something in time to support.
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# ? Feb 16, 2019 15:50 |
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ManMythLegend posted:
Fallon is a testament to how untrue this is. "Need an exterior door for your collateral building? We'll put up some plywood and a sign that says you can't discuss classified stuff anymore. Problem solved!"
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# ? Feb 16, 2019 17:41 |
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ManMythLegend posted:Yeah, this is my take as well. As much as I wish this was true, it really isnt in NECC. For the fleet, yeah, I could drop a casrep if really needed for something before deployment. Casreps here are reserved for things like "oh your engines catastrophically exploded themselves while underway on a mission?" as it should be. So as much as I hate being part of the problem, the missions aren't going to stop because my shits falling apart. So I amazon stuff. If it's 12 bucks to keep the overbearing, micromanaging, busthrowing OIC off my back, it's worth it.
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# ? Feb 16, 2019 18:01 |
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The NCF is full of stories of guys spending their own money for project materials/having khakis tell them to spend their own money. NCF is like bottom priority and I'm not sure how you change the culture without shuttering the whole thing and starting over
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# ? Feb 16, 2019 18:15 |
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# ? May 28, 2024 15:43 |
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Your chains of command suck and I'm sorry. Part of the deal for being OIC or CO is having the loving stones to tell the higher commands that poo poo is broken and impacting mission. A lot of loving khakis are too chicken poo poo to actually stand up and talk about problems.
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# ? Feb 16, 2019 21:41 |