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"We are all going to be working for MSP" I suspect my kids are going to be arguing about this when its their turn down the road on whatever platform they use to argue about stuff in.
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Feb 15, 2019 17:56
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Sickening posted:See you all in 5 years when you make this exact same post again.  if you believe this is even remotely possible. The situation you're describing - that SA will still be around in five years - is silly.
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Feb 15, 2019 17:56
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Japanese Dating Sim posted:
At this rate I look foward to buying SA from lowtax for pennies on the dollar and being drunk with impotent power.
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Feb 15, 2019 17:59
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My wife always complains that her job as a microbiologist would be replaced by robots soon. Some days I tell her robots will replace the low hanging fruit jobs and shell be retired before they make it to her job, other days I tell her shes right and she should start planning for unemployment.
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Feb 15, 2019 18:06
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I thought we were all supposed to be mainly using the cloud by now!!
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Feb 15, 2019 18:10
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We're already at the point where if you were starting from a blank slate a lot of small/medium businesses would run on SaaS only. Migrating all the existing stuff is certainly a huge undertaking. Where will we be in 5 years? Not to the point where we're all going to be either making the cloud or working for MSPs. But if you don't think that SaaS is already pushing IT folks in that direction, I don't think you've been paying attention.
Internet Explorer fucked around with this message at 18:22 on Feb 15, 2019 |
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Feb 15, 2019 18:15
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Tab8715 posted:What's the underlying SaaS or PaaS infrastructure? Container, VMs and Physical Machines - no? The infrastructure that powers the Internet is becoming increasingly consolidated and specialized, for better or worse, and most new applications are frankly thin shims around applications from other people. Most of the hard problems are building a compelling product with a great experience, not solving fiddly poo poo like push notifications and CAN-SPAM. You can use one of the full platforms the major players like Amazon or Microsoft give you, or you can integrate Firebase, Twilio/SendGrid, S3, Datadog, Amplitude, Fastly, RDS, and AWS Lambda yourself and have a mobile app up and running in a week that will scale to multiple millions of daily users. 90% of the software world is CRUD apps. It's creating a compelling experience to filtering, sorting, and presenting information (and often, collecting money). These are the problems people are focused on and everything else is a distraction. Sickening posted:See you all in 5 years when you make this exact same post again. 10 years ago, I would have told anyone working in tech to invest in vSphere as the future of technology. 5 years ago, it was a useful skill to have, but not a terrific idea to specialize in. Today, it's something that I would flat-out tell people not to invest a ton of time in learning unless they had to. Kubernetes is in the middle of the hype cycle. Use it to solve problems, but in five years, we're going to have the plumbing buried in the wall. Don't start a ten-year migration initiative on it today. Kashuno posted:I thought we were all supposed to be mainly using the cloud by now!! Internet Explorer posted:We're already at the point where if you were starting from a blank slate a lot of small/medium businesses would run on SaaS only. Migrating all the existing stuff is certainly a huge undertaking. Where will we be in 5 years? Not to the point where we're all going to be either making the cloud of working for MSPs. But if you don't think that SaaS is already pushing IT folks in that direction, I don't think you've been paying attention. Vulture Culture fucked around with this message at 18:21 on Feb 15, 2019 |
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Feb 15, 2019 18:16
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Vulture Culture posted:One of the weird misconceptions is that SaaS is going to be something visible to IT folks, that they have to deal with. It isn't. It enables business units to not have to deal with IT in order to experiment. That's the whole point. It's not "I'm going to be running my apps in the cloud", it's "HR is going to be doing their jobs without me". I think that's true to some degree, but there's still someone who is going to have to deal with the logic of it all. Right now I don't see HR configuring SSO for their web app. There's not a lot of people who are going to properly understand how to do things like security groups or templates. There's not a lot of people who look at processes from the standpoint of automating them. I still see a role for IT folks in that regard.
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Feb 15, 2019 18:24
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Vulture Culture posted:Sure, in the same way that everyone who connects to the Internet uses BGP, but very few companies have BGP experts on staff. Ah hah. Vulture Culture posted:10 years ago, I would have told anyone working in tech to invest in vSphere as the future of technology. 5 years ago, it was a useful skill to have, but not a terrific idea to specialize in. Today, it's something that I would flat-out tell people not to invest a ton of time in learning unless they had to. Kubernetes is in the middle of the hype cycle. Use it to solve problems, but in five years, we're going to have the plumbing buried in the wall. Don't start a ten-year migration initiative on it today. What would you tell people to invest in now? One the biggest things I hate is all the tech schools telling folks to get good with AD, Exchange, VMware, etc. that might find a you a job today but the future looks bleak. Vulture Culture posted:One of the weird misconceptions is that SaaS is going to be something visible to IT folks, that they have to deal with. It isn't. It enables business units to not have to deal with IT in order to experiment. That's the whole point. It's not "I'm going to be running my apps in the cloud", it's "HR is going to be doing their jobs without me". I am not following, how would IT folks not involved with a SaaS Application?
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Feb 15, 2019 18:29
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Tab8715 posted:What would you tell people to invest in now? One the biggest things I hate is all the tech schools telling folks to get good with AD, Exchange, VMware, etc. that might find a you a job today but the future looks bleak. It might be my own blinders here but I feel like knowing AD and Exchange by way of O365 and both by way of Powershell will continue to be a useful skill for at least the medium-term.
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Feb 15, 2019 18:32
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Tab8715 posted:I am not following, how would IT folks not involved with a SaaS Application? I can speak from personal experience that it is very
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Feb 15, 2019 18:57
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Japanese Dating Sim posted:I can speak from personal experience that it is very easy for a department to enter into discussions with and implement Salesforce without ever consulting their IT department. Oh man - there's a terrible story behind that! What on Earth happened?
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Feb 15, 2019 18:58
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Old Grasshopper posted:Oh man - there's a terrible story behind that! What on Earth happened? Actually it's perfect because then they just make the company hire a Sales Ops person to handle it and I never have to.
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Feb 15, 2019 18:58
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Old Grasshopper posted:Oh man - there's a terrible story behind that! What on Earth happened? Honestly there isn't much of one. I left a few months after they started using it and as far as I could tell things were working ok for them. We're talking a department of 10-15 people just using it for very basic CRM stuff. I did get called to assist with troubleshooting issues (we did get a "hey this happened" sort of email a couple of weeks after their go-live so I wasn't completely flabbergasted) but I wasn't able to do much since things weren't documented, etc. From what I could tell Salesforce support got them working anyway.
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Feb 15, 2019 19:04
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Inspector_666 posted:It might be my own blinders here but I feel like knowing AD and Exchange by way of O365 and both by way of Powershell will continue to be a useful skill for at least the medium-term. Of course, I mean it is what we are using now today. And if you are already a typical traditional system admin - I am with hybrid/cloud chops - keep on trucking. I am looking at the future, I need a job for at least another 25 years before I'll be able to retire. I just find it incredibly irresponsible to be teaching 19 years olds to go into "Go into , AD, Exchange, etc. for a long life career!". Japanese Dating Sim posted:I can speak from personal experience that it is very Is that even a good idea? And once they get it setup they'll want it to integrate it with other things too.
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Feb 15, 2019 19:06
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Tab8715 posted:Is that even a good idea? And once they get it setup they'll want it to integrate it with other things too. Well, no. They should've involved IT at least in the capacity of SME's regarding the technical aspects of business processes, but even in that you're still reducing IT's role in implementing a potentially critical part of the workflows to an advisory capacity. But it still lends itself to what VC was saying, that companies have the ability to experiment and even implement SaaS without IT.
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Feb 15, 2019 19:12
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That kind of poo poo is easily squashed by simply having a policy. Our policy is a simple one; SaaS must be integrated with our identity management platform for security of company data. Then that funnels them into our 'new service' process.
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Feb 15, 2019 19:18
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Ranter posted:That kind of poo poo is easily squashed by simply having a policy. Our policy is a simple one; SaaS must be integrated with our identity management platform for security of company data. Then that funnels them into our 'new service' process. Suffice it to say that your company is undoubtedly better run than my previous employer.
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Feb 15, 2019 19:23
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Japanese Dating Sim posted:Well, no. They should've involved IT at least in the capacity of SME's regarding the technical aspects of business processes, but even in that you're still reducing IT's role in implementing a potentially critical part of the workflows to an advisory capacity. This is about 60% of my day to day work. Ranter posted:That kind of poo poo is easily squashed by simply having a policy. Our policy is a simple one; SaaS must be integrated with our identity management platform for security of company data. Then that funnels them into our 'new service' process. We do this too and we've actually been able to shoot down products in the past because they did not support it.
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Feb 15, 2019 19:25
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^ same. We now have a questionnaire that the SaaS provider must complete, asking all the technical and governance questions we care about. Not only is it good for learning about the product and the technical stuff, but you learn a lot about a company/their reps by how well or how poorly they treat the questionnaire. No SAML support & no 2FA support is an instant rejection (if they support SAML then we get 2FA out of the gate because our SAML IdP has 2FA). Not being able to automate SaaS account disable when employee is terminated is also an instant rejection. SFTP/CSV data feed or API account management are therefor required.
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Feb 15, 2019 19:31
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The Fool posted:This is about 60% of my day to day work. Right, I didn't mean to act like it was a bad thing (in case you took it that way). Just that it's no longer necessarily the case that we'll be principally involved in implementing business applications and standing up the infrastructure etc to support them.
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Feb 15, 2019 19:35
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Japanese Dating Sim posted:Right, I didn't mean to act like it was a bad thing (in case you took it that way). Just that it's no longer necessarily the case that we'll be principally involved in implementing business applications and standing up the infrastructure etc to support them. Not at all, I was just emphasizing your point. I maintain some on-premise infrastructure, but it is just Active Directory and ADFS. Literally, only identity management. Everything else we use is SaaS, and as a result a significant amount of my time is spent in an advisory capacity so that our business units can make informed decisions. The rest of my time is spent building and maintaining automation and integrations.
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Feb 15, 2019 19:42
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Am I the only one that has a decade of Enterprise Software support experience that quit drinking last year? On call work is terrible and I'll never do it again. Hell is being on call, dealing with Oracle indexing at 3am and the call waiting on your Blackberry goes off and its another customer with a PROD down issue.
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Feb 15, 2019 19:47
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Internet Explorer posted:We're already at the point where if you were starting from a blank slate a lot of small/medium businesses would run on SaaS only. Migrating all the existing stuff is certainly a huge undertaking. Where will we be in 5 years? Not to the point where we're all going to be either making the cloud or working for MSPs. But if you don't think that SaaS is already pushing IT folks in that direction, I don't think you've been paying attention. Nobody greenfields non-saas things anymore. You're literally wrong if you 'install' FileMaker instead of buying saas licenses. Same with PeopleSoft, Moodle or any other application. There was never an IT guy involved at all. Anybody selling Enterprise versions with OAUTH or SAML or whatever are also going to make it really easy to integrate with google apps or 0365 for you. Pretty much anybody offering a saas and older on-prem version has a really good incentive to make the transition easy too. Cloud is coming for you in the sense of SaaS, not that you're installing PeopleSoft.exe on VMs in Azure instead of servers in your closet. Methanar fucked around with this message at 20:04 on Feb 15, 2019 |
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Feb 15, 2019 19:59
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Japanese Dating Sim posted:Right, I didn't mean to act like it was a bad thing (in case you took it that way). Just that it's no longer necessarily the case that we'll be principally involved in implementing business applications and standing up the infrastructure etc to support them. Is that really an IT Job at this point? Like... If that's where things are going, what kind of classes would one take in tech school?
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Feb 15, 2019 20:09
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Senior guy putting in notice today. The first domino to fall in what is gonna be a mass exodus. Cool. I really need to start my job search
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Feb 15, 2019 20:38
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Sickening posted:See you all in 5 years when you make this exact same post again. *laughs in higher-ed*
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Feb 15, 2019 22:26
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Methanar posted:Vms can be cattle too you guys. People have been doing immutable packer builds and dumping it into an autoscaler group on aws with some cpu consumption trigger for 10 years. My acquired company into our new company just won this war. We’ve been doing immutable AMIs with packer/ansible for years. We won so hard we’re going from an on-prem company with a cloud solution to a cloud company with on-prem legacy in official wording. The k8s/container people on the other side are still not sure how they aren’t coming out on top. With a well architected cloud-only solution containers just add a layer of unneeded complexity.
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Feb 16, 2019 03:25
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Can I just say it's bullshit that we don't all call it kuberneeeeeeee? Edit: I screwed up my own dumb joke. Dr. Arbitrary fucked around with this message at 03:51 on Feb 16, 2019 |
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Feb 16, 2019 03:39
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I like PaaS stuff the most
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Feb 16, 2019 03:44
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How do y'all feel about applying Agile Software Development to traditional system administration - Active Directory, Exchange, SCCM/SCOM, ADFS, Virt. etc. We are trying to do it and it's exactly what I'd think of purgatory.
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Feb 16, 2019 04:20
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CLAM DOWN posted:I like PaaS stuff the most but I need to learn to actually code 
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Feb 16, 2019 04:21
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Virigoth posted:My acquired company into our new company just won this war. We’ve been doing immutable AMIs with packer/ansible for years. We won so hard we’re going from an on-prem company with a cloud solution to a cloud company with on-prem legacy in official wording. The k8s/container people on the other side are still not sure how they aren’t coming out on top. With a well architected cloud-only solution containers just add a layer of unneeded complexity. I'm going to spin this as good process should always win, and that the underlying technology should enable this process. If a new technology comes along that doesn't enable a better processs for a company, then it's not worth considering. The process should in turn enable company goals, which should enable company growth, etc, etc. Admittedly, 'good process' can be a very nebulous term, but that's a problem with how company management operates, not anything to do with a technology (and something that does not have a technology solution).
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Feb 16, 2019 04:33
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Tab8715 posted:How do y'all feel about applying Agile Software Development to traditional system administration - Active Directory, Exchange, SCCM/SCOM, ADFS, Virt. etc. We're trying too, given the success of our DevOps group. It feels impossible to me too  Also devsecops rules, I love my job
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Feb 16, 2019 04:59
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Tab8715 posted:How do y'all feel about applying Agile Software Development to traditional system administration - Active Directory, Exchange, SCCM/SCOM, ADFS, Virt. etc. What does this even mean
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Feb 16, 2019 05:06
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FISHMANPET posted:What does this even mean We have pie planning where we decide what we want to do for the next few months. Then we break all of the items down into small things called PBIs, vote as a team how long each one should take using the Fibonacci sequence and usually getting rid of a third of all PBIs because there isn’t enough time. Finally, we vote on each PBI and give it a priority or business value. After that each PBI defines with acceptance criteria and they are then broken down into tasks. These must be no longer than 6 hours or needs to be spilt. All of our work must be automated and the code is the documentation.
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Feb 16, 2019 05:27
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Tab8715 posted:the code is the documentation. Nope
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Feb 16, 2019 05:53
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The Fool posted:Nope One of the main principles of agile software development is "working code over documentation". The days of writing endless Word docs and throwing them into Sharepoint are over.
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Feb 16, 2019 06:02
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CLAM DOWN posted:One of the main principles of agile software development is "working code over documentation". The days of writing endless Word docs and throwing them into Sharepoint are over. I was trying to make a point about "self documenting code" being a fallacy. I've seen too many people think that code spoke for itself and then flounder 6 months later looking at their own work. Your code should be documented through comments and docstrings. The code on its own is not sufficient.
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Feb 16, 2019 06:23
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The Fool posted:I was trying to make a point about "self documenting code" being a fallacy. I've seen too many people think that code spoke for itself and then flounder 6 months later looking at their own work. I didn't get all that from "nope", okay then.
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Feb 16, 2019 06:25
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