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I'm listening to the History of Byzantium, and I'm sad I didn't start listening sooner. Constantine the 7th just kind of... awkwardly hanging around family photos for 25 years, Romans using hand-held flamethrowers in the 900s (?!), all kinds of weird poo poo. Medieval coups kind of like elections, where a general just hangs around the capital with an army, going "hey... am I more popular than that guy?? Open the gates, bros..." 
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Feb 10, 2019 02:18
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Fly Molo posted:I'm listening to the History of Byzantium, and I'm sad I didn't start listening sooner. Constantine the 7th just kind of... awkwardly hanging around family photos for 25 years, Romans using hand-held flamethrowers in the 900s (?!), all kinds of weird poo poo. My only complaint is the guy's incredibly soothing voice. Excellent bedtime listening
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Feb 10, 2019 02:21
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Fly Molo posted:all kinds of weird poo poo
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Feb 10, 2019 02:25
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HEY GUNS posted:maybe it's just because i know a lot of saxons but the existence of a saxon airforce will never not be funny to me flap faster, hans!
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Feb 10, 2019 05:30
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HEY GUNS posted:this is why the more i got into history the less i read fiction. It just doesn't have enough...stuff in it it's a perfect blend of every single field, because every little detail matters. It would've been logical if __________ happened, except biology (Yersinia pestis), geography (where the mountains are located), and socio-economics (the long-term results of tax code #146, decreed by that one spergy weirdo emperor 100 years ago) tilted things just a little bit the other way. and I had a big lol a bunch when I heard about Theophilos ordering an expensive merchant ship burned with all its cargo. Because his wife owned a financial stake in that ship, which meant she was a merchant, which meant he was a merchant, which meant it was dishonoring him. and that clearly violates laws against profiting off merchant poo poo while holding public office, what kind of hosed-up barbarian hellhole of a country wouldn't force holders of public office divest themselves from merchant poo poo?! lol
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Feb 10, 2019 06:32
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Fly Molo posted:it's a perfect blend of every single field, because every little detail matters. It would've been logical if __________ happened, except biology (Yersinia pestis), geography (where the mountains are located), and socio-economics (the long-term results of tax code #146, decreed by that one spergy weirdo emperor 100 years ago) tilted things just a little bit the other way. Sci-Fi/Fantasy Writers love Byzantium and have been using it as a crutch for idea's for... well at the very least since Tolkien and Asimov.
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Feb 10, 2019 10:09
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HEY GUNS posted:this is why the more i got into history the less i read fiction. It just doesn't have enough...stuff in it I've noticed this. It can feel flat and linear in comparison.
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Feb 10, 2019 10:20
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History is fractal. You could spend a lifetime studying a tiny corner of it. With fiction, you only get what the author felt like writing about it. Even if that author is Isaac Asimov, there’s only so much material.
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Feb 10, 2019 10:26
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Jack2142 posted:Sci-Fi/Fantasy Writers love Byzantium and have been using it as a crutch for idea's for... well at the very least since Tolkien and Asimov. Yeah sci/fi and fantasy writers often just take the spiciest bits of actual history, mash them together, and set them in an imagined world. Later Roman stuff is perfect because it's damned interesting and little-known.
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Feb 10, 2019 16:26
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Fly Molo posted:what kind of hosed-up barbarian hellhole of a country wouldn't force holders of public office divest themselves from merchant poo poo?! From stories about ancient Roman governors, I guess they preferred their plundering and profiteering to be more straightforward? Sounds less like the state trying to keep its all-powerful central leader honest and more like nobility eschewing commerce to show their affluence.
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Feb 10, 2019 16:41
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The prohibition on the senatorial class doing business was supposed to be an honest government thing. Obviously plenty of people tried to/did get around it using technicalities, like if you free your slave and your new freedman goes into business and since he's your freedman he's automatically a client of yours and owes you some of the profits, well, that's totally legal. People also could and did get in trouble for openly plundering and profiteering in their provinces as governors. It was all wink wink understood you're going to make money as a governor, but it needed to be kept quiet and within reason.
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Feb 10, 2019 16:50
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I really enjoyed the novel about Cicero dunking on Verres.
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Feb 11, 2019 10:18
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So since all of the Chinese history people are in here I’ll ask here, is Jonathan Spence’s The Search for Modern China still the best book on the history of modern China? Also how good/bullshit is Mao The Unknown Story Shimrra Jamaane fucked around with this message at 20:05 on Feb 16, 2019 |
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Feb 16, 2019 19:41
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HEY GUNS posted:this is why the more i got into history the less i read fiction. It just doesn't have enough...stuff in it Still waiting for the Justinian II biopic
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Feb 18, 2019 02:15
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:So since all of the Chinese history people are in here I’ll ask here, is Jonathan Spence’s The Search for Modern China still the best book on the history of modern China? Yea, until Stephen Platt writes something that covers the entire era.
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Feb 18, 2019 03:28
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This is the portrait of Greco-Bactrian ruler Eucratides I from one of his gold coins. It's a picture of a man who lived almost 2200 years ago. It's my favorite ancient portrait of a person. 
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Feb 18, 2019 06:11
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Elyv posted:Still waiting for the Justinian II biopic This would be wonderful.
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Feb 18, 2019 06:11
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Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:This would be wonderful. Prosthetic noses are so photogenic. 
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Feb 18, 2019 07:31
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Fuschia tude posted:Prosthetic noses are so photogenic. And Iiii get a little bit Genghis Khan
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Feb 18, 2019 11:35
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and now i have to listen to that song
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Feb 20, 2019 17:35
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Some data coming on Pompeii and Herculaneum refugees: https://www.forbes.com/sites/kristinakillgrove/2019/02/19/archaeologist-finds-new-evidence-of-the-romans-who-escaped-mt-vesuvius/
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Feb 20, 2019 23:17
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this guy may have a doctorate but i'm not sure he's aware that the main character of a classical tragedy is not necessarily a good person https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/the-classicist-who-sees-donald-trump-as-a-tragic-hero he is correct however, that when i look at trump i feel both pity and fear HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 03:02 on Feb 21, 2019 |
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Feb 21, 2019 00:59
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HEY GUNS posted:this guy may have a doctorate but i'm not sure he's aware that the main character of a classical tragedy is not necessarily a good person Victor Davis Hanson is a good historian when he focuses on ancient Greek farming practices and the way it affected army mustering and warfare. Beyond that, though...
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Feb 21, 2019 01:04
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Epicurius posted:Victor Davis Hanson is a good historian when he focuses on ancient Greek farming practices and the way it affected army mustering and warfare. Beyond that, though... edit: the rise of nineteenth century capitalism predates slightly the abandonment of strict linear formations and a turn to more open order followed by the innovative tactics of the 20th century, so you could make the argument capitalism degrades close-order infantry combat. in this paper i will,,, HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 01:23 on Feb 21, 2019 |
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Feb 21, 2019 01:12
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HEY GUNS posted:this is the guy who said capitalism was essential to infantry combat without ONCE mentioning the 17th century moustachelords, which is the only thing on earth that would have supported his claim Hanson made his reputation on his doctoral thesis, "Warfare and Agriculture in Classical Greece", where he basically took on what was at the time the orthodoxy that war in ancient Greece devastated agricultural infrastructure and led to famines (with the most notable being Athens' famine at the end of the Persian War). Hanson argued, and did a really good job arguing, that this wasn't true; that actual destruction of farms in Greek warfare was rare, that Greek combat favored decisive infantry battles over ravaging the countryside, and that famines were more influenced by taxation patterns and changes in social structure. He turned the thesis into the book "The Western Way of War", in which he went into more detail about Greek battle practices, and said that the Greeks had a culture that emphasized citizen soldiers, decisive battles and avoided unconventional warfare. This is probably not true...we have enough examples of Greeks engaging in deceit in warfare and skirmishing, of Greek employment of mercenaries and so on, and that a lot of Greek combat styles are based on locations...islands and mountainous regions rely less on hoplites and more on archers and light infantry, and so on, for obvious reasons related to geography. The book has its problems and is overly reductive. Still, it has its defenders and it's still considered a serious piece of scholarship. Sadly, a lot of his stuff after that has been pretty garbage. When Hanson sticks to what he actually knows, which is Ancient Greek military combat, his stuff is ok. But Hanson's problem is he doesn't stick to that stuff. He's written a history of WWII, he's written about General Sherman's march to the sea, he's written about how Mexican immigration is destroying California, he's written about how we no longer teach classics in schools, he's written about how Trump has proven to be the greatest President in history. He writes a regular political column in National Review. Hanson's biggest problem is that he has expert's disease....he thinks that because he knows a lot about one topic, that makes him qualified to give his opinion on everything.
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Feb 21, 2019 03:45
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Epicurius posted:he's written about how Mexican immigration is destroying California, Lol what the gently caress
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Feb 21, 2019 05:03
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LingcodKilla posted:Lol what the gently caress Hanson is a big MAGA guy. The Trump book is called "The Case for Trump" and it's coming out in the beginning of March. From what I hear, he argues that Trump is a transformation president who is willing to stand up to the coastal elitists...or at least, so argues the Californian with a doctorate in history. The book about how Mexican immigration is destroying California is called Mexifornia: A Statr of Becoming, and it basically argues that out of control illegal immigration along with an unwillingness to encourage English language learning and assimilation is leading to a culture clash that will tear California apart.
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Feb 21, 2019 05:36
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Epicurius posted:From what I hear, he argues that Trump is a transformation president who is willing to stand up to the coastal elitists...or at least, so argues the Californian with a doctorate in history
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Feb 21, 2019 05:45
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Epicurius posted:Hanson is a big MAGA guy. The Trump book is called "The Case for Trump" and it's coming out in the beginning of March. From what I hear, he argues that Trump is a transformation president who is willing to stand up to the coastal elitists...or at least, so argues the Californian with a doctorate in history. I’d like to shove that book up his rear end and out his mouth.
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Feb 21, 2019 06:21
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HEY GUNS posted:this is the guy who said capitalism was essential to infantry combat without ONCE mentioning the 17th century moustachelords, which is the only thing on earth that would have supported his claim Makes sense for an expert on Greece. Xenophon does constantly yammer on about establishing markets. Though its debatable how free a market can be when you are forced to open it at spear point by a bunch of pissed off mercenaries.
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Feb 21, 2019 07:53
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Squalid posted:Makes sense for an expert on Greece. Xenophon does constantly yammer on about establishing markets. Though its debatable how free a market can be when you are forced to open it at spear point by a bunch of pissed off mercenaries. The state doesn't have a monopoly on violence in this situation, that makes it a free and equal exchange!
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Feb 21, 2019 08:42
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Epicurius posted:Hanson is a big MAGA guy. The Trump book is called "The Case for Trump" and it's coming out in the beginning of March. From what I hear, he argues that Trump is a transformation president who is willing to stand up to the coastal elitists...or at least, so argues the Californian with a doctorate in history. That is darkly amusing, considering California started out as a Spanish colony. California is just returning to its roots! 
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Feb 21, 2019 09:02
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How come seemingly everyone who complains about"coastal" and/or "urban" elites is themselves elite?
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Feb 21, 2019 09:22
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Epicurius posted:When Hanson sticks to what he actually knows, which is Ancient Greek military combat, his stuff is ok. But Hanson's problem is he doesn't stick to that stuff. He's written a history of WWII, he's written about General Sherman's march to the sea, he's written about how Mexican immigration is destroying California, he's written about how we no longer teach classics in schools, he's written about how Trump has proven to be the greatest President in history. He writes a regular political column in National Review. Hanson's biggest problem is that he has expert's disease....he thinks that because he knows a lot about one topic, that makes him qualified to give his opinion on everything. Somewhat unrelated, but I was reading a book review of Roger Scruton’s history of the Anglican Church in which Diarmaid MacCullogh slams the book, saying what basically amounts to, “this is what happens when philosophers try to write history.” I think it applies here, even though Hanson cut his teeth as a legit historian; I think you said it best when you said he has “expert’s disease.”
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Feb 21, 2019 12:17
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It’s pretty easy to make money on the right wing grift train maybe he just sold out.
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Feb 21, 2019 14:51
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agricultural methods of Greek farmers will def get you a PhD but will it get you in Fox News and published in the WSJ?
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Feb 21, 2019 14:52
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HEY GUNS posted:this guy may have a doctorate but i'm not sure he's aware that the main character of a classical tragedy is not necessarily a good person the only thing Trump has in common with a tragic hero is that he wants to gently caress his daughter
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Feb 21, 2019 15:04
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Zombie Dachshund posted:the only thing Trump has in common with a tragic hero is that he wants to gently caress his daughter 
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Feb 21, 2019 16:11
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Zombie Dachshund posted:the only thing Trump has in common with a tragic hero is that he wants to gently caress his daughter What work is this in reference to? An ancient poem or play? I wanted to Google to figure it out but I expected the search results to be alarming if the search terms were vague.
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Feb 21, 2019 16:45
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Sarern posted:What work is this in reference to? An ancient poem or play? I wanted to Google to figure it out but I expected the search results to be alarming if the search terms were vague. I think he had in mind Oedipus loving his mother.
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Feb 21, 2019 17:10
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