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I can’t believe Rand deadass insisted on having a “respectful conversation” about sexual harassment at this of all times like this is a highschool debate club and not reality, actually.
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Feb 16, 2019 22:53
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Rand Brittain posted:I'm not implying a problem at all — both stances are internally consistent. I just think it's important to be clear about whether you actually mean "I think it's okay to still be friends with somebody who's done wrong, up to a point" or "I don't think it's okay to do this, but I accept that so many people are going to do it anyway that there's a limit to how hard we can discourage it." Oh so you offer us two flavors of dipshittery and don't go with the third, actual position of "I don't think it's okay to do this, ever, full stop" You disingenuous fuckwit.
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Feb 16, 2019 23:03
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Pope Guilty posted:Oh my god I am so loving done with these people. They're yelling about SA and accusing me of making "the Suleman situation" worse and I just can't deal with this dishonest garbage on this topic. Worse than what it was already? Like covering for an abuser with no magical proof pulled out of their collective rectum to make it not a problem at all like they said or the most hilarious non-apology ever that essentially had the guy only own up to being too powerfully attracted to women? Yeah, those people aren't worth it.
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Feb 16, 2019 23:06
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Mr. Maltose posted:I can’t believe Rand deadass insisted on having a “respectful conversation” about sexual harassment at this of all times like this is a highschool debate club and not reality, actually. ”rational discourse! rational discourse!!", i continue to insist as i slowly shrink and transform into a rape-adjacent piece of trash
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Feb 16, 2019 23:49
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Rand Brittain posted:I mean... is Holden obligated to stop associating with Morke? In his personal life, I mean — obviously the cutoff point in professional life comes a lot sooner. Warthur posted:I hope a mod interprets the above as a ban request.
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Feb 16, 2019 23:50
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If we're going to revisit tiresome arguments Rand has over things he likes and has too much personal capital invested in, can they at least be funny ones like when he was taking bullets for the time RPGnet took negative comments against "HR Departments" as a "Group Attack" and punished someone accordingly for it? e- Mostly because it's just funny to dunk on corporate HR Departments Nuns with Guns fucked around with this message at 23:57 on Feb 16, 2019 |
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Feb 16, 2019 23:54
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It wouldn't make me as mad as it does if it wasn't hypocritical as gently caress. Morke's not a serial rapist, yeah, but he's a professional sexual harasser, just like C.A. Suleiman. And Holden continues to cape for him, just like Nicole Lindroos does for Suleiman. If you're going to publicly call out Green Ronin again in the wake of the Zak accusations (and they DESERVE to be called out!) then don't be surprised when people call out your identical behavior.
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Feb 17, 2019 00:13
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Dawgstar posted:Worse than what it was already? Like covering for an abuser with no magical proof pulled out of their collective rectum to make it not a problem at all like they said or the most hilarious non-apology ever that essentially had the guy only own up to being too powerfully attracted to women? Yeah, those people aren't worth it. I never brought up any of it, somebody asked what Holden did, I explained, and then it was torrents of garbage about how great Holden is and how SA hates him for reasons. There's really two ways to go about not being friends with crap dudes and the easy one is to drop crap dudes and the hard one is to endlessly justify how they're Good, Actually and IDK why you'd go to that effort.
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Feb 17, 2019 00:28
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Matt & Michelle McFarland are apparently leaving the industry On the one hand, good. gently caress off and don’t come back. On the other, gently caress them even more for trying to get the final word.
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Feb 17, 2019 00:32
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I completely expect that no, Matt will not actually be "addressing the specific reasons for the shutdown sometime soon." Or ever.
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Feb 17, 2019 00:39
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moths posted:I completely expect that no, Matt will not actually be "addressing the specific reasons for the shutdown sometime soon." He never responded to the first allegations, so...
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Feb 17, 2019 00:43
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moths posted:I completely expect that no, Matt will not actually be "addressing the specific reasons for the shutdown sometime soon." He'll get a timeline out at some point.
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Feb 17, 2019 00:44
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Mors Rattus posted:He never responded to the first allegations, so... Yeah, and that kind of worked out for him, at least for a while. He basically took the hit of getting booted from RPGnet and OPP without comment so the furor would die down quicker, and then kept being a creep elsewhere. Wouldn't surprise me in the least if the plan here is the same. Close up shop for a bit until people have stopped paying attention, and then try to worm their way back in on the fringes.
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Feb 17, 2019 00:57
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Door, rear end, way out.
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Feb 17, 2019 01:02
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DigitalRaven posted:Matt & Michelle McFarland are apparently leaving the industry Finally. Get the gently caress out of our community Matt and take your enabling wife with you, I'm amazed it didn't stick the first time. And I don't know how any statement he might make will go over at all the way he wants it to. It'll either be some CAS level "MY DICK IS TOO STRONG, DO NOT BLAME THE WOMEN FOR NOT HAVING THE WILLPOWER TO RESIST IT!" 'apology' or a "woe is me you have no idea how hard it is to be a rapist" thing like the Talassi.
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Feb 17, 2019 01:57
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Loomer posted:If you aren't pushing that problematic friend to get better? Yeah, I'll judge the gently caress out of you. When it turned out my best friend was being domestically violent, I didn't go 'well, that sucks' and shrug it off. I took the time and the effort and the risk of losing a friend to push him to be a better man for his family because that is what friendship is about. I believe that it worked out for you and your friend; that isn't always the case. Izzy fucked around with this message at 04:52 on Feb 17, 2019 |
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Feb 17, 2019 03:45
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Izzy posted:Speaking from personal experience, this stance can be problematic as well. When abusers get caught, they can and often do use the same tactics they use to hide their abuse altogether to convince friends, therapists, and so on that they're trying their best to get better and all that abuse is behind them. Nothing's changed behind closed doors; if anything, it's gotten worse and the victim is left with even fewer options to get out because her abuser is now "on to her." Yeah, generally speaking the safest option is to try and educate the abused on their options and help them as much as you can, even if it's just a safety plan for the next time their abuser gets bad, but don't don't don't initiate confrontation with the abuser. We as a society are still trying to figure out what exactly can be done about abusers; the ideal is that they reform and don't hurt anyone else, but psychiatrists and the like are incredibly susceptible to believing abusers faking reform (and no you aren't a better judge of character, stop thinking that, it helps abusers, we're all dumb as hell) and it's really hard to tell a skilled abuser from a good person unless you happen to be their victim.
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Feb 17, 2019 04:38
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Izzy posted:Speaking from personal experience, this stance can be problematic as well. When abusers get caught, they can and often do use the same tactics they use to hide their abuse altogether to convince friends, therapists, and so on that they're trying their best to get better and all that abuse is behind them. Nothing's changed behind closed doors; if anything, it's gotten worse and the victim is left with even fewer options to get out because her abuser is now "on to her." Oh, I agree completely and I'm still on the lookout for it with him and his partner. I follow the Russian proverb 'trust, but verify'. It won't always work and the first priority should be to protect the abused rather than reform the abuser, but sometimes the latter is also possible. In the case I'm referring to it was also specifically at his partner's request that I get in the middle and work with him, and we started from a position where he knew what he was doing was wrong and unacceptable and where he was largely reenacting the toxic patterns of his own childhood. My personal background involves extensive work with the survivors of domestic and child abuse (about, uh, 20 years of it at this point in one form or another) and a subsequent involvement in the rehabilitation of criminal offenders and law school, so I also went in having a better than average idea of what to look for and some solid tools to use. Of course, you'll often see that apparent willingness to change from people who can't change or don't want to but are happy to pretend to, which makes it hard to be sure. I won't say I can be completely sure in my case either - just that I believe it worked, or at least that I hope it did. In the original context, I also think a friendship with problematic people where one side is unequivocal in rejecting behaviour and trying to change it should be judged differently from one where they don't. It's my one caveat about the 'sever' response, and it's mostly based on the desire to break the abuse cycles that stem from traumatic childhoods. But, sometimes people are just plain dicks and when it turns out that's the case you sever and send up the red flag to warn others whether they're dicks for no reason or so badly damaged that you can't get them to change their behaviours.
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Feb 17, 2019 05:02
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DigitalRaven posted:Matt & Michelle McFarland are apparently leaving the industry This is the most plain statements in the history of statements. Not even vanilla it's so bland.
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Feb 17, 2019 05:23
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Foolster41 posted:This is the most plain statements in the history of statements. Not even vanilla it's so bland. I dunno there is a distinctly overwhelming hint of bullshit to it, but I hear Matt's followup statement is coming out the same day as Green Ronin's timeline edit: that joke was already made but I leave my shame here Darwinism fucked around with this message at 05:33 on Feb 17, 2019 |
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Feb 17, 2019 05:31
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Now, Zak was claiming Satine is really on his side and just had to say what she said because she works for Wizards. https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10155875511770636&id=731570635 I have my doubts.
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Feb 17, 2019 05:57
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Hey guys, is there a summary of what's going on with Zak, with some detail about what Mearls did and why his statement was insufficient? I'm going to try to convince my group to stop playing D&D, and I'm not confident in my own ability to explain the situation.
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Feb 17, 2019 07:16
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King of Solomon posted:Hey guys, is there a summary of what's going on with Zak, with some detail about what Mearls did and why his statement was insufficient? I'm going to try to convince my group to stop playing D&D, and I'm not confident in my own ability to explain the situation. In 2014, when he was heavily courting the more regressive parts of the hobby, Mearls got TheRPGPundit and Zak S involved to a basically unknown degree and credited as 'Consultants' so that their bases would be more inclined to buy 5E - at this point they had no idea that the streaming phenomenon would hit D&D hard and make all of that pandering to tiny audiences of lovely people really even more pointless. But anyway, even at this point both of these parties were very well known toxic assholes and Mearls was told as much. His response was to ask people with evidence of said toxic assholery to email him said evidence. When people did as such, Mearls shared these emails with Zak S who then assured Mearls that it was all not true, and this was good enough for Mearls. And now Mearls releases a statement trying its very hardest to make it seem like Zak was just a rando playtester that was never even that close to D&D. When he was directly responsible for the dude's inclusion and personally went to bat for the guy - granted, before Zak was outed as a sexual abuser but again well, well after Zak S was established as the most toxic kind of online persona - the dude had already, at the point Mearls recruited him, harassed multiple people off of the internet, for instance. edit: Zak's favorite method was getting his followers to dogpile targets, making it easier for him to claim innocence
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Feb 17, 2019 07:46
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Though now Frankie's suggesting that was actually Mandy posting as Zak. Guys. What if it's been Zak posting as Mandy posting as Zak posting as Mandy all along?
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Feb 17, 2019 08:23
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Loomer posted:Though now Frankie's suggesting that was actually Mandy posting as Zak. How avant garde.
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Feb 17, 2019 08:32
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What does this guy even do for a living? Between being an abusive rapist and Extremely Online that is.
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Feb 17, 2019 09:15
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Ghost Leviathan posted:What does this guy even do for a living? Between being an abusive rapist and Extremely Online that is. Sell paintings of his victims.
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Feb 17, 2019 09:24
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https://twitter.com/IPRTweets/status/1097022709710479360?s=19 I wonder if DTRPG will follow suit. Apparently IPR made the decision not to sell Zak's stuff way back in 2015.
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Feb 17, 2019 09:49
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LatwPIAT posted:Sell paintings of his victims. So, trust fund baby?
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Feb 17, 2019 09:59
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That Old Tree posted:https://twitter.com/IPRTweets/status/1097022709710479360?s=19 I wonder if IPR will be selling White Wolf books he developed. Because they have a bunch of those.
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Feb 17, 2019 10:00
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LatwPIAT posted:Sell paintings of his victims. Note that he got so mad about Ettin making a game that he created two separate paintings titled Breakfast Cult. So this is probably the correct answer.
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Feb 17, 2019 11:47
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Saguaro PI posted:Note that he got so mad about Ettin making a game that he created two separate paintings titled Breakfast Cult. So this is probably the correct answer. The second one seems to predate it? The release, anyway.
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Feb 17, 2019 11:52
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Breakfast Cult was definitely in development and IIRC being fundraised before that came out.
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Feb 17, 2019 12:01
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Yeh, it's definitely possible, I don't remember the dates of the KS or anything, just close enough to be fuzzy in my head.
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Feb 17, 2019 12:02
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Breakfast Cult was KSed in 2014. (Also, lmao)
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Feb 17, 2019 12:11
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yeah i guess i coulda just asked. rofl.
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Feb 17, 2019 12:43
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There really is an incredible pettiness to rapists and abusers. I assume it ties into whatever psychology makes them want or need violent control over others.
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Feb 17, 2019 13:21
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MachineIV posted:I wonder if IPR will be selling White Wolf books he developed. Because they have a bunch of those. Work for hire, as well ye know - neither Matt nor Michelle see any money from modern day sales of White Wolf books they worked on. Or any sales for that matter. So while it's loving depressing to look back on my own credits history and see how many books have their names in, anyone buying one of them from Drivethru now would not be funding them. The same is not true of Growling Door.
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Feb 17, 2019 14:09
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Darwinism posted:In 2014, when he was heavily courting the more regressive parts of the hobby, Mearls got TheRPGPundit and Zak S involved to a basically unknown degree and credited as 'Consultants' so that their bases would be more inclined to buy 5E - at this point they had no idea that the streaming phenomenon would hit D&D hard and make all of that pandering to tiny audiences of lovely people really even more pointless. But anyway, even at this point both of these parties were very well known toxic assholes and Mearls was told as much. His response was to ask people with evidence of said toxic assholery to email him said evidence. When people did as such, Mearls shared these emails with Zak S who then assured Mearls that it was all not true, and this was good enough for Mearls. For clarification: Mearls essentially handed him a list of targets, and in typical Zak S fashion he initiated retaliatory doxxing and harassment.
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Feb 17, 2019 14:40
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Ghost Leviathan posted:So, trust fund baby? His (flagged for deletion) Wikipedia page has him at Yale, so probably. It's worth noting that Mearls hasn't tweeted anything since the non-pology, which suggests that he might be facing consequences over this.
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Feb 17, 2019 14:48
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