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Ches Neckbeard posted:TLDR: If the courts and cops don't care then I don't. Everyone gets totally equal treatment under the law despite mountain ranges of evidence to the contrary. Including the CPD who in this case threatened to arrest the girl Hunt assaulted and didn't investigate at all. I knew Hunt was going to get another chance because he's too good not to, but man Cleveland seems like the worst place for him to be.
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Feb 18, 2019 20:58
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Grittybeard posted:https://twitter.com/BKSportsTalk/status/1097530815100190721 Gronk's bread and butter has always been that 20-30 yard seam pass once they get across the 50. You saw it in the Super Bowl.
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Feb 18, 2019 20:59
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Grittybeard posted:https://twitter.com/BKSportsTalk/status/1097530815100190721 Patrick Crayton is a product of Tony Romo.
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Feb 18, 2019 21:01
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Grittybeard posted:I knew Hunt was going to get another chance because he's too good not to, but man Cleveland seems like the worst place for him to be. I mean that depends on if you think karma is a thing.
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Feb 18, 2019 21:03
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CharlestheHammer posted:I mean that depends on if you think karma is a thing. Heh, you're in for it now. Did you know the Browns almost won the Super Bowl last season?
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Feb 18, 2019 21:06
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indigi posted:define “recently” because it’s been the case for at least the past hundred years Are you seriously trying to argue that members of the entertainment industry have been expected to be moral paragons for the last 100 years? In football, at least, it's been since the Ray Rice video went public. Prior to that no one gave two shits. If they did, then Suggs and Fitzgerald would be long gone. Hell, Ray Lewis was national news and that didn't matter. You could argue that this has something to do with ubiquitous cameras and video footage of these crimes, but no one gave a drat about Lawrence Taylor, Mike Tyson, or a hundred other scumbag celebrities and entertainers for the past 100 years. If you want to talk about other entertainment media, look at any documentary on rock bands since the 60s. They're filled with morally reprehensible poo poo. Hollywood is finally coming to terms with some of the crap people have gotten away with for the last century.
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Feb 18, 2019 21:08
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if we imagine the Browns started the season with Gregg Williams it’s practically a guarantee that they secure the first seed by week 15 and waltz into the super bowl to destroy the Redskins (Alex Smith doesn’t get hurt in this universe)
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Feb 18, 2019 21:09
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Chichevache posted:Are you seriously trying to argue that members of the entertainment industry have been expected to be moral paragons for the last 100 years? no dumbass I’m saying that public opinion has influenced who is allowed in the entertainment industry pretty much since the latter became a thing. morality has nothing to do with it
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Feb 18, 2019 21:10
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Ches Neckbeard posted:TLDR: If the courts and cops don't care then I don't. Everyone gets totally equal treatment under the law despite mountain ranges of evidence to the contrary. Including the CPD who in this case threatened to arrest the girl Hunt assaulted and didn't investigate at all. I still think you're putting words in his mouth. He's not saying the justice is perfect. What I'm seeing, is that he's saying the justice system is the arbiter of these things and he doesn't give a drat either way. He watches football to be entertained, not to confront difficult moral and ethical issues.
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Feb 18, 2019 21:10
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Is it ethical to allow Nathan Peterman to think he's a NFL quarterback?
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Feb 18, 2019 21:15
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Mega64 posted:Is it ethical to allow Nathan Peterman to think he's a NFL quarterback? Yes. It's like dressing up a dog so he thinks he's people.
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Feb 18, 2019 21:15
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indigi posted:no dumbass I’m saying that public opinion has influenced who is allowed in the entertainment industry pretty much since the latter became a thing. morality has nothing to do with it Then why not just say that, dumbass?
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Feb 18, 2019 21:20
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Chichevache posted:I still think you're putting words in his mouth. He's not saying the justice is perfect. What I'm seeing, is that he's saying the justice system is the arbiter of these things and he doesn't give a drat either way. He watches football to be entertained, not to confront difficult moral and ethical issues. He’s mad that other people care about things that he doesn’t care about and it’s affecting his entertainment in an incredibly minor way.
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Feb 18, 2019 21:21
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Chichevache posted:Mike Tyson, or a hundred other scumbag celebrities and entertainers for the past 100 years. I think Tyson is a bad fit for the argument you're making, or rather the NFL seems to view itself as more wholesome than boxing--which might be the only sport they have an argument against. He actually saw jail time and once he got out he was sold as a dangerous crazy guy (and played into the role a little too much) until he got his rear end handed to him by Lewis. Boxing doesn't mind those type of guys since people buy fights hoping to watch them lose. While, say, maybe some people hate Adrian Peterson and he might take physical punishment it's not like anyone's actually tuning into games to see him get hit. e: I suppose my main argument is boxing is not a good guide for any of this, or for anything, and should probably just be outlawed. I also love boxing.
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Feb 18, 2019 21:21
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YOLOsubmarine posted:He’s mad that other people care about things that he doesn’t care about and it’s affecting his entertainment in an incredibly minor way. Yeah, I agree. Grittybeard posted:I think Tyson is a bad fit for the argument you're making, or rather the NFL seems to view itself as more wholesome than boxing--which might be the only sport they have an argument against. He actually saw jail time and once he got out he was sold as a dangerous crazy guy (and played into the role a little too much) until he got his rear end handed to him by Lewis. Fair enough. My point was merely that the entertainment industry is absolutely littered with scumbags who didn't lose their entire career for extremely reprehensible poo poo. Hunt's scuffle in the hallway barely registers compared to the rapes, domestic violence, and child abuse that have been open secrets for these industries for 100 years.
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Feb 18, 2019 21:30
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Moral codes, unspoken or otherwise, have been a part of commercial entertainment for a long rear end time. The main difference between now and, say, the 50s, is that views on acceptable behavior have changed and it’s much harder to hide your terrible behavior thanks to technology making sure most of our words and actions are recorded. Like, in the past entertainers had to hide that they were gay or communists because those were the worst things imaginable, now they just have to not beat up women on camera because we decided, as a society, that beating up women is bad and being gay isn’t.
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Feb 18, 2019 21:30
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Chichevache posted:Yeah, I agree. So... is your point that because that's how it's been that's how it should remain?
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Feb 18, 2019 21:36
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YOLOsubmarine posted:Moral codes, unspoken or otherwise, have been a part of commercial entertainment for a long rear end time. The main difference between now and, say, the 50s, is that views on acceptable behavior have changed and it’s much harder to hide your terrible behavior thanks to technology making sure most of our words and actions are recorded. exactly. this is all a pretty clear example of something that’s been happening for decades, and acting like it’s new or particularly harmful in this case is utterly loving stupid
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Feb 18, 2019 21:43
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Moral codes are apart of everything, nothing is done robotically and I don’t think it would be good if it did.
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Feb 18, 2019 22:05
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Larch posted:There are women in the world that do some dumb poo poo. Sometimes they get hosed up. Let the courts sort it out . Chichevache posted:I still think you're putting words in his mouth. He's not saying the justice is perfect. What I'm seeing, is that he's saying the justice system is the arbiter of these things and he doesn't give a drat either way. He watches football to be entertained, not to confront difficult moral and ethical issues. He's counting on it to make moral judgement and nobody should care if that system doesn't act. That system is deeply flawed and abdicating moral judgement to that deeply flawed system is dumb.
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Feb 18, 2019 22:09
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https://twitter.com/nfl_dovkleiman/status/1097560046593064960?s=21 Try again.
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Feb 18, 2019 22:47
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ALL THE WAY WITH OBJ
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Feb 18, 2019 22:49
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indigi posted:I’m at a birthday party watching my nephew and his friends run around with wild abandon and jump on moon bounces with a complete lack of coordination and got to wondering, do toddlers ever tear their ACLs via non-contact injury like NFL players or is that only something that can happen once it develops more Generally a child's body isn't going to have the weight or musculature to really put a ton of pressure on their ligaments. They are also going to have more flexible ligaments; think of the way a rubber band is super flexible at first (children) but becomes brittle as it ages (our elderly asses). Also, more fragile bones lead to breaks instead of ligament tears. That being said, I'm sure it's possible for children to tear their ACLs under the right conditions. Falling from a tree, doing gymnastics, extreme sports, that kind of thing. But a bouncy house with only the weight of their own body to deal with wouldn't have the kind of force. A couple of my friends have done it by just stumbling awkwardly, one while drunk and one in the dark. But those were grown people with full-weight bodies. Shimrra Jamaane posted:I swear to god this exact same story came out a year ago. It literally did, it was Kaep's lawyer and he said exactly the same thing, name-dropping Kraft as an owner interested in Kaep. It's just the kind of completely baseless but spicy take that will get picked up no-questions-asked by the media. Ches Neckbeard posted:He's counting on it to make moral judgement and nobody should care if that system doesn't act. That system is deeply flawed and abdicating moral judgement to that deeply flawed system is dumb. It's a very boomer way of looking at things. Abdicating moral responsibility on a personal level is kind of their jam
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Feb 18, 2019 22:58
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When I pay $159 to watch one guy try to kill another guy with his fists I know I feel better when neither of those men are convicted felons.
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Feb 18, 2019 23:27
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Elephanthead posted:When I pay $159 to watch one guy try to kill another guy with his fists I know I feel better when neither of those men are convicted felons. You ordering black market snuff films on the dark web or what?
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Feb 18, 2019 23:33
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Elephanthead posted:When I pay $159 to watch one guy try to kill another guy with his fists I know I feel better when neither of those men are convicted felons. I wish I could get tickets to my home town team for $159
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Feb 18, 2019 23:41
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Jiminy Christmas! Shoes! posted:So... is your point that because that's how it's been that's how it should remain? Not at all. Personally, I think that Hunt's fight barely registers as a big deal and isn't worth black listing him over. His hotel fight is typical of trashy drunk people all over the nation. Maybe I'm jaded because I'm exposed to it so often, but literally millions of Americans have done the same moron thing Hunt did. I'm not outraged that the Browns hired him. I do think it was a dumb thing to do when you have Chubb as your established back already.
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Feb 18, 2019 23:53
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Black listing might be too much, but there needs to be consequences when you act like that. Just like there would be for any of us who started smacking a random drunk woman around. Looking at the contract Hunt was forced to sign (and considering that the NFL hasn't even handed down the sentence yet), to me it actually seems like the system is working as intended. Most likely he's already lost millions in this whole deal, and suddenly his playing future is in doubt. That's an effective punishment, given the severity of the crime and the fact that no one involved was seriously injured. If he learns from this and never has another incident again, fair play. If he doesn't, then he shouldn't get another chance. This is his chance to get his poo poo together for good, and it's one more chance than many people get. If the NFL did nothing and we all waited for the justice system to do something about this we'd be waiting the rest of our lives. To me this is one of the rare situations of poor behavior in the NFL in which the outcome is more or less fine. Banishment for life is too harsh but business as usual is completely unacceptable, so this middle ground works for me
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Feb 19, 2019 00:24
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The argument that a lot of people have done it so it’s whatever is weird. A lot of people have done most things.
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Feb 19, 2019 00:30
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The shove might be construed as being in the heat of the moment but then walking over and kicking her while she’s on the ground was baaaad.
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Feb 19, 2019 00:33
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:The shove might be construed as being in the heat of the moment but then walking over and kicking her while she’s on the ground was baaaad. Dude was angry, and should probably get counseling for that (and supposedly is). He should also probably avoid his old stomping grounds where stuff like that might be more a little more likely to happen, hence why Cleveland is the worst team he could possibly sign with.
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Feb 19, 2019 00:43
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Yeah the CPD's track record isn't great when football players are involved. Between Kareem and Gareon Conely who was also cleared despite changing his story a good half dozen times during that rape investigation farce they're pretty poo poo. That's ignoring the Tamir Rice murder. Kareem can pay his dues counseling, charity work and a suspension for a 2nd chance sure. He wasn't full on Ray Rice, AP or Josh Brown. We should't just look the other way when the law decides not to give a poo poo is the point of all this.
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Feb 19, 2019 00:50
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I think it's valid to be so judgmental over pro sporters and being gross humans considering they should be painfully aware of the microscope on them. Knowing this and still loving up is pretty egregious.
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Feb 19, 2019 00:51
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CharlestheHammer posted:The argument that a lot of people have done it so it’s whatever is weird. I don't see how it is that weird. I'm arguing that the behavior is relatively normal- which is not the same as good or appropriate- and isn't worth freaking out about. A significant amount of the people who cook your food or do construction on your house have done the same or similar*. It leads to the point that I want it make which is that if you blacklist or ban every person who has an incident like Hunt's then you're ruling out a very sizable portion of America. I feel this needs to be pointed out because of how shocked most of this forum seems to be by his behavior, which to a lot of people is "closing time on the main club street downtown". *side note: almost every gangster or dealer in California lists their profession as construction or line cook
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Feb 19, 2019 02:04
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Chichevache posted:I don't see how it is that weird. I'm arguing that the behavior is relatively normal- which is not the same as good or appropriate- and isn't worth freaking out about. A significant amount of the people who cook your food or do construction on your house have done the same or similar*. It leads to the point that I want it make which is that if you blacklist or ban every person who has an incident like Hunt's then you're ruling out a very sizable portion of America. I feel this needs to be pointed out because of how shocked most of this forum seems to be by his behavior, which to a lot of people is "closing time on the main club street downtown". Honestly I think a lot of fans (myself included to an extent) are over correcting after years of players bullshit getting swept under the rug. It wasn't that long ago that a sheriff announced that the NFL attempted to get him to cover up Josh Brown chasing his wife around the pro bowl and beating her when he caught up literally in front of league personnel. Nevermind the shams around Gareon Conley, Jameis, Ben et.al.
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Feb 19, 2019 02:12
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That just seems like a rather half assed rationalization really.
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Feb 19, 2019 02:25
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Ches Neckbeard posted:Honestly I think a lot of fans (myself included to an extent) are over correcting after years of players bullshit getting swept under the rug. It wasn't that long ago that a sheriff announced that the NFL attempted to get him to cover up Josh Brown chasing his wife around the pro bowl and beating her when he caught up literally in front of league personnel. Nevermind the shams around Gareon Conley, Jameis, Ben et.al. You're right, I'd agree with that. If I recall correctly, I was the same way when the Ray Rice incident came to light. Now, I want to correct that and move towards a more balanced approach. Obviously being outraged by terrible incidents like Sandusky, Winston's rapes, and Jovan Belcher is a completely appropriate feeling. We should be outraged by that. But when a dumb kid (I don't actually know Hunt's personal history, so I admit to projecting in this case) gets in over his head after becoming a millionaire celebrity, I'm ok with keeping a level-head and taking a chance on him growing and developing as a person. I think a lot of discussion on this forum turned towards banning people who misbehave from the league in recent years. I think that is an overreaction. Give Hunt a chance to make amends. Prove that punishing people for life isn't the only path to justice in this country by giving them a chance to redeem themselves.
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Feb 19, 2019 02:27
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CharlestheHammer posted:That just seems like a rather half assed rationalization really. Why not make a real attempt at addressing the point you're trying to make instead of drive-by thread making GBS threads?
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Feb 19, 2019 02:28
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Asproigerosis posted:I think it's valid to be so judgmental over pro sporters and being gross humans considering they should be painfully aware of the microscope on them. Knowing this and still loving up is pretty egregious. Fun game, let's pretend this isn't a football forum and guess what's under the spoiler text!
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Feb 19, 2019 02:39
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CharlestheHammer posted:That just seems like a rather half assed rationalization really. Cool so what do we do with ex-cons then? If someones released yeah they should get a 2nd chance. I'm just applying that logic. Yeah he did something lovely and it looks like the NFL will be the only ones to punish him. Hopefully he sucks it up and makes attempts to make amends.
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Feb 19, 2019 02:40
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