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uninterrupted posted:and also that there is no armed opposition to Maduro despite supposedly widespread discontent with his administration That's because Maduro is a dictator that's worse than Hitler and Saddam Hussein combined, which is why the US-backed opposition was allowed to declare their own counter-presidency and galavant around the country encouraging government officials to defect.
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Feb 22, 2019 16:35
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uninterrupted posted:“No, you see, it is baby sledgehammer who is right, and the Red Cross who is wrong” Have you done any research on who made the statement against US aid at the Red Cross?
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Feb 22, 2019 16:36
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GoluboiOgon posted:far more has been siezed than that That's from February 9th, after other countries recognized the legislature as the legitimate sovereign. It's not part of the seizures covered in the article under discussion. We...just went over this.
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Feb 22, 2019 16:37
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uninterrupted posted:Dude you’ve simultaneously said there are guns everywhere in Venezuela for cheap, and also that there is no armed opposition to Maduro despite supposedly widespread discontent with his administration; your arguments don’t make sense and that’s why no one responds. People who don't have the slightest clue about Venezuela keep talking about armed opposition movements smuggling guns in. I feel like it's my duty to point out how asinine those comments are considering the opposition is historically a peaceful movement. Then you use that ridiculous argument to justify people getting shot by the Maduro government, which is frankly disgusting.
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Feb 22, 2019 16:46
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GoluboiOgon posted:far more has been siezed than that A discussion about 'large numbers of money taken from Venezuela that could have been otherwise used to feed the poor' is not going to reflect favorably on its government. quote:Operation Money Flight revealed an international conspiracy to launder the PDVSA funds through Miami and several large-scale, international third-party money-laundering organizations. [...] The source of the PDVSA funds was a PDVSA foreign-currency exchange scheme benefitting Eaton Global. The exchange scheme was disguised as a "financing" arrangement. ... In short, Eaton Global ended up with the right to pay PDVSA about 7.2 billion Bolivars (worth around 35 million Euros) and receive about 510 million Euros. quote:By May 2015, the conspiracy had doubled in amount to $1.2 billion embezzled from PDVSA. quote:[Maduro's] stepsons — Yosser Gavidia Flores, Walter Gavidia Flores and Yoswal Gavidia Flores — though also unnamed are described by the sources as receiving an estimated $200 million in funds stolen from the nation’s national oil company, Petroleos de Venezuela, S.A., or PDVSA, that were wired to a European bank in late 2014 and early 2015. Pedro De Heredia fucked around with this message at 16:50 on Feb 22, 2019 |
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Feb 22, 2019 16:47
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Labradoodle posted:People who don't have the slightest clue about Venezuela keep talking about armed opposition movements smuggling guns in. I feel like it's my duty to point out how asinine those comments are considering the opposition is historically a peaceful movement. Then you use that ridiculous argument to justify people getting shot by the Maduro government, which is frankly disgusting. Someone repost the video of the opposition lighting a black guy on fire because I’m sick of constantly giving over this. Ffs they tried to murder Maduro with drone last August. Multiple opposition leaders have been caught stockpiling weapons.
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Feb 22, 2019 16:50
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Discendo Vox posted:Who operates Misión Verdad? Their social media accounts are propagandistic. Gustavio Borges.
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Feb 22, 2019 16:51
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Labradoodle posted:I feel like it's my duty to point out how asinine those comments are considering the opposition is historically a peaceful movement. . So peaceful: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjNDd9bEIeE They would never threaten to lynch anyone who wouldn't go along with their demands: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_l0C5dE3EQ
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Feb 22, 2019 16:57
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e: nah this was a shitpost
Cease to Hope fucked around with this message at 17:02 on Feb 22, 2019 |
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Feb 22, 2019 16:58
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CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:So peaceful: Is that seriously the best you can do, one incident of violence and Twitter threats? Hell, I can tell you off the top of my head there were instances where protesters set up barricades that proved deadly to colectivo members who were trying to break them up in 2014. What you can't prove, because there is no proof of it, is a pattern of violence or a single instance where opposition leaders have called to it. I do admire the mental gymnastics it takes to paint the opposition as blood-thirsty while ignoring the systemic use of violence by the government, though. Also, apologies to the rest of the thread for going off on stupid posts today. An earlier comment that basically said the people who got shot trying to let humanitarian aid in were asking for it kind of riled me up.
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Feb 22, 2019 17:05
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uninterrupted posted:Again, not aid, guns. Pretty reasonable to stop trucks full of American guns going into the country. Uninterrupted wht made you so deadset on believing the maduro narrative?
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Feb 22, 2019 17:10
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:Uninterrupted wht made you so deadset on believing the maduro narrative? no but seriously what were you even trying to get at with that family jewels line, everything else you could at least see what you were trying to get at no matter how stupid it might have been, that one was just plain weird
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Feb 22, 2019 17:13
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Bob le Moche posted:It's because the US is doing it to create an excuse for regime change and to take the oil. It's the same idiotic talking points over and over again in service of protecting your dictator from criticism. Fact: Maduro is the one who morphed his regime from a constitutional democracy to a military dictatorship. That is the only coup/"regime change" here. Guaido's "coup" is following the Venezuelan Constitution by calling for new elections. Your beloved murder-happy bus driver can certainly throw himself forward as a candidate. I'm sure you can donate your $27 and/or 2.7 trillion bolivars. Fact: At this point, even if your idiotic oil conspiracy was right, there's almost no oil to take. Maduro has wrecked the oil infrastructure of the country. The US produces more oil than Venezuela by a factor of TEN. Repeat: 10x more oil production. Venezuela has virtually deleted itself from the oil market. Even more tragic, given the trajectory of global oil prices, global oil supply/demand, and the total disrepair of Venezuela's oil infrastructure, it is quite possible that the amount of money needed to invest in reviving it will never pay off and their oil industry will NEVER recover to its former highs, which is a tough reality for Venezuelans and underscores the amount of semi-permanent economic damage that Maduro has done. Also, the idiotic meme that the US would "take the oil" is belied by the fact that the US has been taking the Venezuelan oil up until two weeks ago, and the money we were paying to take it was effectively propping up the regime, considering that Maduro and his cronies were fleecing the revenue from it. The reason we didn't cut it off sooner is because it would have caused a humanitarian crisis. But given that Maduro has already taken the country into the lower bowels of hell on earth, it sadly can't get much worse at this point. By the way, the only two differences between you posting this stupid propaganda poo poo, and Maduro posting this stupid propaganda poo poo, is that Maduro can't speak english and can't qualify for a credit card for the $10.
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Feb 22, 2019 17:18
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uninterrupted posted:Again, not aid, guns. Pretty reasonable to stop trucks full of American guns going into the country. can you stop posting these kinds of ridiculous fantasies. Stuff like this is not only entirely unsupported by any evidence, it doesn't even make sense. If the aid trucks are just propaganda meant to discredit the regime and spark violence, why would you put your smuggled weapons into them? At least keep your stories straight. To answer your question we have a number of videos posted showing the warehouses where the aid was being stocked before loading into the trucks. I don't remember any in which we could see the trucks being loaded. I admit uninterrupted when I see posts like this one it makes me feel you are being dishonest. If you want to make better arguments, you should at least try and build a coherent narrative. This kind of shotgun approach doesn't really work for me.
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Feb 22, 2019 17:21
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Discendo Vox posted:Who operates Misión Verdad? Their social media accounts are propagandistic. The Venezuelan government. Says so right on their website. 
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Feb 22, 2019 17:25
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Private Witt posted:It's the same idiotic talking points over and over again in service of protecting your dictator from criticism. you know, you sort of expect a stalin derail, and you sort of expect a "no honestly US regime change is good actually" derail, and you expect endless litigation of why when -my- side kills people it's okay actually. those are at least tangentially related to the topic under discussion. "maduro is bad because he's like bernie sanders" is a new one, and i congratulate you on having been the first to deploy it.
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Feb 22, 2019 17:26
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:you know, you sort of expect a stalin derail, and you sort of expect a "no honestly US regime change is good actually" derail, and you expect endless litigation of why when -my- side kills people it's okay actually. those are at least tangentially related to the topic under discussion. Uhh, where's the Sanders bit?
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Feb 22, 2019 17:28
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Labradoodle posted:Also, apologies to the rest of the thread for going off on stupid posts today. An earlier comment that basically said the people who got shot trying to let humanitarian aid in were asking for it kind of riled me up. As it well should! god uninterrupted is such a ghoulish piece of poo poo.
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Feb 22, 2019 17:28
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Darth Walrus posted:Uhh, where's the Sanders bit? Your beloved murder-happy bus driver can certainly throw himself forward as a candidate. I'm sure you can donate your $27 and/or 2.7 trillion bolivars.
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Feb 22, 2019 17:30
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Darth Walrus posted:Uhh, where's the Sanders bit? the 27$ bit is an utterly inexplicable shot at what the average donation to Bernie was when he announced. i am not sure what the gently caress either.
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Feb 22, 2019 17:30
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:"maduro is bad because he's like bernie sanders" is a new one, and i congratulate you on having been the first to deploy it. It was a joke that winked at Bernie's slightly soft stance on the issue, and nothing more. I do not think the two are remotely comparable, so don't put words in my mouth. Maduro has long ago veered off the trail of socialism into the waiting arms of outright kleptocracy.
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Feb 22, 2019 17:31
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Private Witt posted:It was a joke that winked at Bernie's slightly soft stance on the issue, and nothing more. I do not think the two are remotely comparable, so don't put words in my mouth. how odd, that Bernie Sanders, who was outspoken on the subject of Abrams-backed regime changes being bad back in the 80s, has expressed less than full-throated support for the latest one on the menu. real puzzler.
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Feb 22, 2019 17:34
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https://twitter.com/Abs_NBC/status/1098719175235854337
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Feb 22, 2019 17:35
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Private Witt posted:It was a joke that winked at Bernie's slightly soft stance on the issue, and nothing more. I do not think the two are remotely comparable, so don't put words in my mouth. why is bernie a "murder-happy bus driver"? i get how opposing invading venezuela is twisted in your mind to being pro-murder, but why a bus driver?
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Feb 22, 2019 17:35
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maduro is the bus driver e: speaking of bernie https://twitter.com/TVietor08/status/1098807238506868736 "with the war in iraq over, and our syrian and afghan efforts winding down, we'll just have to shut down all these weapons manufacturing operations around the entire country, instead of invading venezuela" said no liberal ever Truga fucked around with this message at 17:43 on Feb 22, 2019 |
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Feb 22, 2019 17:39
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choo choo, here comes the Respecting Human Rights Express
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Feb 22, 2019 17:41
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zapplez posted:Have you done any research on who made the statement against US aid at the Red Cross? Since no one has taken the bait. Anyone that thinks the Red Cross saying no to US aid isn't political, look up Idriss Jazairy who was the speaker on this issue and if he has any problems with corruption.
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Feb 22, 2019 17:45
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Who cares. Could be a literal vegetable, he was right in this case.
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Feb 22, 2019 17:48
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zapplez posted:Since no one has taken the bait. Anyone that thinks the Red Cross saying no to US aid isn't political, look up Idriss Jazairy who was the speaker on this issue and if he has any problems with corruption. as our good friend Mr. Abrams so memorably put it back in 1985: "The purpose of our aid is to permit people who are fighting on our side to use more violence." for some reason, the question of whether that is something to support or something to not support is considered -quite- political, yes.
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Feb 22, 2019 17:49
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Here's a live stream of Venezuela Aid Live: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G39isVdh4jg
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Feb 22, 2019 17:52
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All these posters talking about "incredible" sources are using Elliot Abrams and Donald Trump talking points without a hint of irony about who they are sourcing there information from. Like where do you think all these western outlets are getting their reporting from? They don't have journalists anymore. They are just repeating talking points given to them by the state department.
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Feb 22, 2019 17:55
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Those people are making it difficult to argue that Maduro does indeed suck on his own merits but that doesn't make it any less true. And there have been numerous great journalists in Venezuela over the past 5 years who have consistently documented its spiral of decline so you don't need to take my, or Trump's, word for it.
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Feb 22, 2019 17:59
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GoluboiOgon posted:why is bernie a "murder-happy bus driver"? i get how opposing invading venezuela is twisted in your mind to being pro-murder, but why a bus driver? Only plutocrats, lawyers, and other people with prestigious educations should be allowed to hold political office, not everyday people like bus drivers and bartenders.
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Feb 22, 2019 18:01
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Squalid posted:can you stop posting these kinds of ridiculous fantasies. Stuff like this is not only entirely unsupported by any evidence, it doesn't even make sense. If the aid trucks are just propaganda meant to discredit the regime and spark violence, why would you put your smuggled weapons into them? At least keep your stories straight. I’m super honest. I take the shotgun approach because the pro-coup folks keep trotting out conflicting arguments about how there are no guns for the opposition/tons of guns but no food for sale, there’s no coup/a rightful coup/actually Maduro overthrew the government by choosing judges I don’t like, no US intervention/US intervention but what other choice is there/actually trading with a country is the same level of intervention as overthrowing it. It gets v tiring Anyways you want a narrative and I think thats a fair request so: Fact: US overthrow of a government hasn’t said that government since (arguably) Japan. Fact: the US has overthrown a number of ghoulish dictators, like Saddam, Gaddafi, etc. the result has always been worse than when they stayed in power. Therefore: if the US is supporting a coup, no matter how awful the person is overthrowing, the moral choice is to oppose the US coup. Lots of folks say this is a childlike, simplistic view of foreign policy. Perhaps, but it’s been correct every single time since ~1960.
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Feb 22, 2019 18:17
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I see we are happily stumbling into one inevitable portion of ghoulish takes by the anti-imperialists: "the killed protesters were asking for it, they are a fundamentally violent movement"
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Feb 22, 2019 18:18
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AOC graduated cum laude from Boston University so it's kinda insulting to compare her education as equivalent to Maduro's!
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Feb 22, 2019 18:21
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Kavros posted:I see we are happily stumbling into one inevitable portion of ghoulish takes by the anti-imperialists: "the killed protesters were asking for it, they are a fundamentally violent movement" i've been pleasantly surprised by its absence, tbh. now, the guy explaining that look, we only set that guy on fire one time, on the other hand. yikes.
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Feb 22, 2019 18:23
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regardless, you don't need a formal education to succeed in politics or as a leader, but maduro has also clearly shown he cannot, in fact, succeed.
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Feb 22, 2019 18:23
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After today, venezuela will have two unconstitutional governments. Looking forward to the citizens taking poo poo into their own hands and executing the entire loving ruling class.
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Feb 22, 2019 18:24
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Truga posted:After today, venezuela will have two unconstitutional governments. insha' fuckin' allah.
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Feb 22, 2019 18:25
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