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How specialized should I be making my dupes? I tend to start with a digger/builder, a researcher, and a sweeper/supplier. A couple early picks are a farmer, an "engineer" that mostly refills my coal and punches the granulator, and then once I have mushrooms a cook/artist. But I'm finding that my one builder and supplier take forever to get stuff build and then clean the floors up. Am I treating the priorities too much like rim world and overspecializing? Or should I just grab a couple more dupes and beeline to an spom? In my current game I've been focusing on tapping and containing the geysers near my start instead of hunting for that oh so critical cold biome.
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Feb 21, 2019 06:25
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Sounds to me like you just need more dupes. Guys who aren’t currently miners will still mine, provided their priorities give them time to do it. One small detail though, sweeping is the job of groundskeepers, not gofers.
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Feb 21, 2019 06:40
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WithoutTheFezOn posted:Sounds to me like you just need more dupes. Guys who aren’t currently miners will still mine, provided their priorities give them time to do it. At the start I have one dupe doing both. I set tidy highest, then supply, then storage.
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Feb 21, 2019 07:00
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Early on you can specialize but it really isn't important later. I mentioned it my last post I think but you only really need to specialize 3(+) dupes, and that's only because the skill points come kind of sparingly for the jobs: the dupe actually doing your research, your cooks, and your artists. Everyone else should end up generic as gently caress and master every job you care to. In this game you're going to be constantly limited by travel time and such over anything else, so you want whoever is available to do a thing to be able to do it well, otherwise you'll just add extra waiting to get anything done since you'll have guys taking priority on tasks when other people would get to it faster. Skills max out around 22-25 depending on dupe, and you can realistically hit those caps in time because nobody ever dies unless you stop paying attention and they get themselves murdered. My later bases will have 16-24 dupes with 15-20 in every basic skillset easy. Early on when you have like 4 dupes you can make sure the guys with better skill do things though, especially stuff like farming since you get more seeds apparently. But after like your 6th dupe or you settle into a safe work flow, go wild. I will forever sing the praises of the supply job line, mainly exosuit engineering. Once they are trained in exosuits, wearing a suit is 100% a good thing and they should wear the suit at all times they aren't eating, making GBS threads or sleeping. It's +10 digging, no environmental stresses, and no excess CO2 production as they wander around. There are no negatives at all once trained as they consume the exact same amount of oxygen in a suit as without, and you only need to supply oxygen to your docks and living space at that point. Docks don't actually consume any power AFAIK, much like shutoffs. Mazz fucked around with this message at 07:20 on Feb 21, 2019 |
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Feb 21, 2019 07:09
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I absolutely save scum the duplicator and have no regrets. Just save before you click it the first time.
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Feb 21, 2019 14:35
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I don't know what it is, but I feel almost compelled to consolidate all my starting water into one reservoir, which always ends with a bunch of wasted cycles and everyone getting hypothermia.
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Feb 21, 2019 17:32
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I make 4x16 rooms in my base and lock off an airlock with fresh water stored for future use of both the water and the space. With airlocks below I can close on my main ladder stack so I can open the airlock and dump a ton of water into my main reservoir which is a double height (9x16) room. Also what requires germ free water? I am looking at disinfecting water but am not sure why..
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Feb 21, 2019 17:42
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Musher, Water coolers and espresso machines, and when your dupes carry that water to places the germs get on them and everything they touch till they pass a sink/shower. You really got to push it for any of that to matter though.
Mazz fucked around with this message at 18:10 on Feb 21, 2019 |
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Feb 21, 2019 18:07
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I used to split my water into clean, dirty, clean infected, dirty infected. Until I realised the amount of clean water your colony consumes late game is really really small. The main use for water is large scale cooling and for that none of the above matters. So I just made a huge tank for cold water and then one for hot water that then went through a cooling system back into the cool water tank.
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Feb 21, 2019 18:28
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You can also use the heat to clean the water passively, once the water is like 60-70C germs die, just not at the accelerated rate of 85C or in chlorine reservoir. Using water to refine metal will also clean it if you cycle it through to near boiling before returning it. Bonus points for deleting the excess heat somehow, like a sieve or carbon skimmer (latter kind of wasteful tho). FWIW Slimelung survives to boiling temps but dies in cold water.
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Feb 21, 2019 18:39
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If I have a water reservoir can I fill it to some amount and then hook it up to a metal refinery so it just loops through with no pumping etc required?
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Feb 21, 2019 18:51
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priznat posted:If I have a water reservoir can I fill it to some amount and then hook it up to a metal refinery so it just loops through with no pumping etc required? Not sure the endless loop would work but the water would turn to steam quickly and start damaging stuff.
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Feb 21, 2019 18:53
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Loiku posted:Not sure the endless loop would work but the water would turn to steam quickly and start damaging stuff. Ah good point, perhaps run it through some kind of cooling or put a wheezewort or 2 next to the reservoir(s).
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Feb 21, 2019 19:03
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No refineries heat up the coolant considerably so you only get a couple uses from water before it’s at the boiling point. You can set up temperature sensors with shutoff valves and do some complex routing but a simple closed loop is going to be really iffy if you use the refinery with any regularity.
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Feb 21, 2019 19:13
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Mazz posted:No refineries heat up the coolant considerably so you only get a couple uses from water before it’s at the boiling point. You can set up temperature sensors with shutoff valves and do some complex routing but a simple closed loop is going to be really iffy if you use the refinery with any regularity. How about pumping it through a water sieve? That drops it to 40C regardless of heat right?
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Feb 21, 2019 19:15
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It will only drop the temp if it’s converting polluted water to clean water, any clean water that passes through doesn’t get changed. You have to convert it back to PW somehow first to make that loop. bathrooms aren’t good because they don’t use enough water to keep up and they add water with each use. You will slowly saturate the loop till it stops flowing. You can feed the feed the clean water to an electrolyzer though, which would also heat delete it. That would work if on a priority pipe bridge over the regular water coming to the electrolyzer. Not a closed loop but functional with some tinkering. Mazz fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Feb 21, 2019 |
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Feb 21, 2019 19:18
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The refinery itself produces 16k DTU/s of heat while operating, plus heat added to the coolant (2400k DTU/s for steel, 10.5k DTU/s of gold). Steel is entirely impractical with water & wheezewort cooling, but gold might be. To refine gold, it's adding 264+16 = 280k DTU/s of heat to the asteroid. A single wheezewort deletes 12k DTU/s when fully immersed in pressurized hydrogen in an insulated room. You will need about 25 wheezeworts and a radiant cooling loop to keep up with the refinery. The heat from the refinery building itself can be offset with 2 wheezeworts running part-time. This is why people use heat deletion tricks. A metal refinery with polluted water will add the same 264k DTU to the water, which will raise 400kg of pwater by 6.3C. Lets say you're starting with 30C pwater (from algae terrariums?), this means you can loop it (119 - 30 = 89C / 6.3C = 14.12) 14 times before it's too hot. At that point, the water can be fed at scalding temperatures into a sieve, which immediately produces 40C water and 4k DTU/s of its own heat (offset by 1/3 of a wheezie). The 119-to-40C change deletes (119-40 = 79C * 400kg * 4.179 (DTU/g)/C) = 126M DTU from the map. Sieves are incredibly powerful if you pair them with automation to suck up as much heat as possible.
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Feb 21, 2019 19:27
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Nice! Thanks, good info. I am just starting to get into using pipe sensors etc now and it's really cool shutting off valves, routing different gases around without using the filter etc.
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Feb 21, 2019 19:30
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insta posted:This is why people use heat deletion tricks. On the other hand, I've been playing with the "Dynamic Output Water Sieve" mod (link), and it makes the game soooo much more interesting, and also actually challenging and therefore fun. It makes it so that the only way to get rid of excess heat (aside from wheezeworts and AETNs) is to vent the heated material out to space, which also has the nice effect of never having to deal with "omg I have way too much water/oxygen/whatever, now what?" situations.
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Feb 21, 2019 19:43
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Hey, you can “upgrade” ladders now without deconstructing them. Cool.
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Feb 22, 2019 03:29
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Being able to see all the errands of your dupes/errands of an item is great. good job klei
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Feb 22, 2019 04:35
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Well Factorio .17 is releasing next week so that'll give some of us something to do while we wait 
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Feb 23, 2019 06:30
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Mayveena posted:Well Factorio .17 is releasing next week so that'll give some of us something to do while we wait Do we get nuclear weapons yet for dealing with large bug nests or is the peak of mechanized warfare still running around Benny Hill style while waving a shotgun? Is the end game still "pour a bazillion resources into a rocket and launch it into space for no reason"?
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Feb 23, 2019 08:51
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There's nuclear weapons already, but the best weapon right now is the big train artillery. Also, endgame is now to launch as many rockets as possible, because satellites give you high end research flasks for infinite research steps
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Feb 23, 2019 09:00
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Katt posted:Do we get nuclear weapons yet for dealing with large bug nests or is the peak of mechanized warfare still running around Benny Hill style while waving a shotgun? There are nuclear missiles and artillery. The artillery can either be on a turret or on a train car. You still "win" by launching a rocket with a satellite but now there is  SPAAAAAAACE REEEEEESEARCH that you get for each satellite launch. That gives you access to infinitely stacking technologies that get continually more expensive.
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Feb 23, 2019 09:07
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Truga posted:There's nuclear weapons already, but the best weapon right now is the big train artillery. Are you loving kidding me? This sounds rad as hell. I don't believe it. I played Factorio on and off for like 3 years and end game weapon systems never advanced one peg in that time. We got a tank I guess but it died instantly if you tried to use it in fighting by any other means than kiting.
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Feb 23, 2019 09:18
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Katt posted:Are you loving kidding me? This sounds rad as hell. I don't believe it. I highly suggest you play again in the next patch. I too did not like the fighting stuff. In my last play it did not really bother me a single bit given the murder tools available now.
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Feb 23, 2019 10:08
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Having to manually grind out dozens of alien nests was the part of factorio I hated.
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Feb 23, 2019 10:49
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Katt posted:Having to manually grind out dozens of alien nests was the part of factorio I hated. Alien artifacts and alien science no longer exist. You can in fact automate literally everything now. Once you get it artillery can clear new land for you now and one of the infinite researches is artillery range.
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Feb 23, 2019 11:01
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Alien artifacts and alien science no longer exist. You can in fact automate literally everything now. Once you get it artillery can clear new land for you now and one of the infinite researches is artillery range. So aliens have no resources at all?
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Feb 23, 2019 11:21
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Katt posted:So aliens have no resources at all? Oh, you haven't played in that long. They only block you from expanding into areas now until you murder them. Picking up the little poops from the nests was a super bad idea that was removed long ago.
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Feb 23, 2019 13:25
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Sillybones posted:Oh, you haven't played in that long. They only block you from expanding into areas now until you murder them. Picking up the little poops from the nests was a super bad idea that was removed long ago. The nests dropped purple things you needed for the highest level research flask things. So before doing some major research you had to calculate how much alien poop you needed and then head out into the bush to kite aliens with the automatic shotgun. Running in to the nest and blasting like 6 bug houses then kiting like 200 aliens until they were dead. Run back in and kill a few more house and kite 150 aliens. Run back and loot poops. It was pretty terrible.
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Feb 23, 2019 13:35
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Katt posted:The nests dropped purple things you needed for the highest level research flask things. So before doing some major research you had to calculate how much alien poop you needed and then head out into the bush to kite aliens with the automatic shotgun. Yeah, that was pretty awful and it no longer exists. I think there are mods that make aliens drop stuff but in the base game they don't drop anything at all. They're just, you know, there. You can also just turn them off entirely. I think that disables achievements but, eh. It's a much better game now which is saying a lot because other than that it was already pretty good. Probably better to have this conversation in that thread, though. 
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Feb 23, 2019 14:01
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Mazz can you post your atmos setup?
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Feb 23, 2019 14:08
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 A little more in that screen than needed but you can see the entire SPOM to atmo routing at least. The trick with the bridges makes sure the gasses are split amongst at least 3 of the suits per bridge evenly, and also to make sure theres no pauses in the flow as the game tries to figure out which input to send it to, bridge inputs don't have any stoppages like that because stuff just teleports through them and clears the tile. Optimizing the flow (and the electrolyzer output) like this is essential to keeping 10+ suits capped off per line, but you'll exceed the line volume right between 12-13 anyway. If you have two sets of suits going to the same area, like say 24 dupes but only space for 12 suits per room, use door controls to limit them. If you don't have some type of control on where the dupes go they'll pile up suits at one of the gateways and won't be restocked unless you do it manually per dock. They might've changed this in QoL Mk2 actually but I'm not sure and would be skeptical it's 100% correct anyway. If you look in that screen there are doors to the left and right of the atmos (under pipes but in line with the rest). Don't allow the first half of your dupes through the left doors on the top, and the last half on the bottom. You don't need to touch the right side doors at all, just the doors to the immediate outside. When they can't use a door they won't path through the area anymore. You can also change suit vacancy rules but I'm less comfortable with that because it's more of a random pathing roadblock that I can't be sure will work right every time and I can't have dupes getting bugged pathing at roughly the most important point in my entire base. You can also do a left and right exit the same way, I just didn't because I didn't want to change a bunch of stuff I already set up with the rest of the living space. Obvious but worth including, there are no exits from the living space area except the atmo rooms, if the power is ever cut and the docks break you just disable the exosuit gateways if needed (preferably never). FWIW I use 2 screen doors for all my base walls because they only cost 100 metal to fill two tiles, have no decor penalty like air/mesh tiles, and you can save controls settings on the top door if you ever need to default the bottom door to full on/full off beacuse dupes are dumb. Mazz fucked around with this message at 17:04 on Feb 23, 2019 |
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Feb 23, 2019 16:36
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I remember something about automating transformers to reduce heat generation. Was that a thing? How does that work? 
Sillybones fucked around with this message at 03:48 on Feb 24, 2019 |
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Feb 24, 2019 01:09
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Demon_Corsair posted:How specialized should I be making my dupes? No need to specialize until you get further into the job-tree. Most of my dupes just end up being max skill in almost all the lower tier jobs. Then when you get to exosuits, you can pick the few dupes you want to specialize into it. If they have high research or whatever it is, they get job skills much faster. Qubee fucked around with this message at 01:23 on Feb 24, 2019 |
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Feb 24, 2019 01:20
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Mazz posted:FWIW I use 2 screen doors for all my base walls because they only cost 100 metal to fill two tiles, have no decor penalty like air/mesh tiles, and you can save controls settings on the top door if you ever need to default the bottom door to full on/full off beacuse dupes are dumb. Does this work? My dupes will climb the bottom door just to use the top door, if there's a ladder outside and they're heading up.
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Feb 24, 2019 01:44
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Mazz posted:
What are the big gas reservoirs for? The ones off to the left of the SPOMs. Azuth0667 fucked around with this message at 03:07 on Feb 24, 2019 |
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Feb 24, 2019 03:00
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Hello Sailor posted:Does this work? My dupes will climb the bottom door just to use the top door, if there's a ladder outside and they're heading up. You know what, I can’t rmemeber the last time I locked all dupes out of a place entirely with this double door, but it does work for limiting them going through in some form. I’m positive of this because my atmo suit design doesn’t work without some kind of active door control. Azuth0667 posted:What are the big gas reservoirs for? The ones off to the left of the SPOMs. There are none in that screenshot, do you mean the the liquid ones or the gold volcano area? EDIT: Or like the giant gas tanks in the more zoomed out screenshots I've posted? Mazz fucked around with this message at 04:25 on Feb 24, 2019 |
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Feb 24, 2019 03:52
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