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Dapper_Swindler posted:hasn't he done that before, like a couple years ago? I can't remember if he's formally broken relations with Colombia before. I don't think he has. He did close the border with Colombia a few times and once deported over a thousand Colombians living along the border, forcing many more to flee the country in fear for their safety.
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Feb 23, 2019 20:25
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RaySmuckles posted:here are a couple of good, informative podcasts over the last 2 weeks that i think have done a good job explaining the situation, certainly helped contextualized the situation for me, hosted by a dude who has been consistent for over 10 years with a wide array of guests including former un rapporteur Alfred de Zayas who just finished reporting to the un how damaging the sanctions have been in late 2018. What's cool is that if you actually read the report, it provides no evidence for this assertion.
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Feb 23, 2019 20:25
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More defections: https://twitter.com/caseysjournal/status/1099388905193787393 https://twitter.com/caseysjournal/status/1099389419243499520
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Feb 23, 2019 20:26
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Discendo Vox posted:I’ve gotta do a deep dive effortpost on UN politics and structuration sometime. I’m surprised it’s taken this long to cycle back around to de Zayas. all of the other interviews are better than the de zayas one invading venezuela is the absolute worst thing the us can do and we're poised to do it most likely as a yemen-esque "just pay the neighboring countries to do it, pick the targets, give them the supplies, just have them be the ones to finally pull the trigger"
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Feb 23, 2019 20:29
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What’s Russia up to?
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Feb 23, 2019 20:29
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Shaocaholica posted:What’s Russia up to? their aid is on the way, along with china's surely its seen in this thread as equally legitimate as the american aid
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Feb 23, 2019 20:31
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zapplez posted:I have no idea where you are getting your history but Libya was not great. Holy poo poo they had public hangings on the regular. Homosexuality was illegal and punishable by up to five years in jail. Their healthcare system was not good since the 80s. And so what if the rulers were rich? Its easy with oil. It actually is, because that’s what happens in every country the US overthrows.
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Feb 23, 2019 20:33
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Shaocaholica posted:What’s Russia up to? Maduro was on TV the other day bragging that X amount of Russian aid was coming. It looks like some aid is coming, but it's not from the Russian government (whole thread here): https://twitter.com/AKurmanaev/status/1098745638467092481 EDIT: Other tweets: https://twitter.com/AKurmanaev/status/1098753130215415809 So the aid is physically coming from Russia but it's not "from" Russia.
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Feb 23, 2019 20:34
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Watching and pressuring Maduro on payments more than likely.
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Feb 23, 2019 20:34
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There's been three more defections. These ones were caught on tape: https://twitter.com/NTN24ve/status/1099391695525941248 I've lost count, but I think we're probably at 12-15 defections into Colombia today.
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Feb 23, 2019 20:37
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RaySmuckles posted:surely its seen in this thread as equally legitimate as the american aid This but unironically because I actually care if my people starve to death or not
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Feb 23, 2019 20:40
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zapplez posted:Is it really a hot take to say living in a dictatorship was a bad time? There is quite a bit of Western Man's Burden coming through that post imo
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Feb 23, 2019 20:43
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RaySmuckles posted:their aid is on the way, along with china's why wouldn't it be?
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Feb 23, 2019 20:43
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RaySmuckles posted:their aid is on the way, along with china's It's pretty cool that the US forced Maduro to actually start paying attention to the humanitarian crisis in his country, huh? He could have been getting aid from friendly states this whole time but apparently couldn't be bothered.
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Feb 23, 2019 20:47
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Norton the First posted:It's pretty cool that the US forced Maduro to actually start paying attention to the humanitarian crisis in his country, huh? He could have been getting aid from friendly states this whole time but apparently couldn't be bothered. yes, the solution is to make an even bigger humanitarian crisis right next to the first one by bombing/invading their country this will snuff out the first humanitarian crisis by sucking in all the coverage and suffocating it nothing, and i mean nothing, helps a country out like "bombing them back to the stone age" electrical plants? water treatment facilities? major highways? those are all actually obstacles to ending a humanitarian crisis RaySmuckles fucked around with this message at 20:54 on Feb 23, 2019 |
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Feb 23, 2019 20:52
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Let's not humor the dumbass guy who's bad at posts (and also bad at everything else).
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Feb 23, 2019 20:54
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This is the Venezuela thread, not the snuff fiction thread.
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Feb 23, 2019 20:59
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RaySmuckles posted:they're about to invade and bomb venezuela after a failed coup that they themselves orchestrated for the record, here's the estimated location of every US Navy carrier strike group and amphibious ready group (i.e. marines) as of the 21st  the US is absolutely not about to bomb or invade anything, there's simply no assets in place to do it with
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Feb 23, 2019 21:02
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RaySmuckles posted:
thanks for the links immediate response to skimming: - Carlos Ron (the first guest in the first link) is not a credible source on anything except pro-Maduro propaganda, but on the plus side he's not the only guest - okay, let's look at Zayas quote:Now, one of the principle demands of the opposition was to advance the presidential elections and the agreement that was reached on the 6th of February 2018 provided for advanced presidential elections in April of 2018. So that as a concession to the opposition, that as a satisfaction of the demands of the opposition to have elections. Now the opposition knew very well that they could not win the elections. Knowing that, they decided to boycott them. obviously, i have some objections to this narrative quote:Now obviously, Leopoldo López was in house arrest. Why? Because he had been calling for violence. I mean, in any country if you are inciting violence, that is a criminal offense under any penal code. There are many other opposition leaders who could have run in those elections, but decided, simply strategically, not to participate. So, they are trying to wage war from outside the country. and a bunch of other stuff, some of which i object to less strenuously and some of which i agree with exactly zip, however, on actual impacts of pre-late-2018 sanctions, but maybe he didn't want to reiterate the stuff from his UN report and preferred to focus on new developments and the opposition's legitimacy in general, i find the first article only mildly interesting because I've heard the arguments more than a few times and there aren't a lot of new facts, but it's a perfectly serviceable primer on the pro-Maduro (Carlos Ron) and, uh, less counterfactual extremely-opposition-critical (Zayas) takes on current happenings -- The second article/podcast (well, the KI guy) has some interesting stuff on the current situation in Haiti and I think it's worth reading. for one guest, if maybe not the other -- Here's a pdf of the de Zayas report: https://chicagoalbasolidarity.files.wordpress.com/2018/08/un-report-on-venezuela-and-ecuador-alfred-de-zayas.pdf He's apparently historically been pretty sympathetic to Maduro, but hey, that's no reason to assume the report's bullshit without reading it, right? I'll get around to it later.
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Feb 23, 2019 21:05
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https://twitter.com/PastorKelly822/status/1099396056037707783?s=2 I’d rather not a goddamn dime of US Aid ends up in this assholes hands tho.
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Feb 23, 2019 21:07
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okay, maybe i'll skim the report now instead I'm going to have to chew on it a bit. He makes a lot of sourced-but-extremely-terse claims, which means reading the footnote sources is mandatory. There's some potentially interesting stuff here, and there are also places where he repeats from sources and analyses that are highly questionable (albeit usually with a "the Venezuelan central bank says" sort of thing). Here's an amusing, and deeply relevant to the days this thread was better, one that is both maybe-not-100%-wrong and almost-certainly-misleading quote:Furthermore, staff of the Banco
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Feb 23, 2019 21:17
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Socialism isn't the same as kleptocracy. Venezuela was never truly socialist.
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Feb 23, 2019 21:18
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Some of the aid burned: https://twitter.com/IntelCrab/status/1099391323092721670
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Feb 23, 2019 21:21
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I think it's too soon to say the regime actively burnt the food rather than it being an accident in the first place.
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Feb 23, 2019 21:25
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ChaseSP posted:I think it's too soon to say the regime actively burnt the food rather than it being an accident in the first place. Yeah, I'm not endorsing the text of the tweet. FWIW the journalist says that the fire was started by tear gas canisters fired by the National Bolivarian Police. EDIT: This journalist is reporting the same thing: https://twitter.com/isnardobravo/status/1099397133202001921
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Feb 23, 2019 21:27
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GreyjoyBastard posted:Here's an amusing, and deeply relevant to the days this thread was better, one that is both maybe-not-100%-wrong and almost-certainly-misleading Having a fixed exchange rate that depends only on the government's whim has done nothing except promote the existence of black market exchanges and also contribute to the inflation. They should seriously get rid of that, but nope.
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Feb 23, 2019 21:32
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GreyjoyBastard posted:okay, maybe i'll skim the report now instead The report's come up in this thread before, and yeah my take was that the dude has some impressive credentials but his report mainly repeats things that government sources have told him, which is obviously not ideal when the government is flat-out lying about several of the subjects he's reporting on (Such as the inflation rate).
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Feb 23, 2019 21:33
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Also calling a website that publishes an unofficial exchange rate "an instrument of war" is hilarious.
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Feb 23, 2019 21:39
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brugroffil posted:There is quite a bit of Western Man's Burden coming through that post imo Are you alleging Venezuelans are not western?
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Feb 23, 2019 21:41
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Acebuckeye13 posted:for the record, here's the estimated location of every US Navy carrier strike group and amphibious ready group (i.e. marines) as of the 21st hmm, i heard this and accept that it is misleading because it doesn't explicitly say "fighters/bombers/strike aircraft" quote:We don’t know what, but the administration says that all options are on the table, a clear military threat. quote:Over the weekend, an extremely sweaty Senator Marco Rubio of Florida appeared on CNN from the Colombia border where the U.S. military planes have been landing but 2 things 1) they don't need aircraft carriers if they can just use neighboring airbases 2) more likely, the yemen approach: just have brazil and colombia do it, though looking at the planes listed in the air forces they have little more than light CAS https://www.infodefensa.com/latam/2019/02/04/noticia-sondea-contratistas-posible-envio-tropas-colombia.html gotta leave to run errands though, so adios! fishmech posted:Are you alleging Venezuelans are not western? well, not western european, or directly of it, which is the typical insinuation when people invoke "the west" lmao, never change, fishmech RaySmuckles fucked around with this message at 21:49 on Feb 23, 2019 |
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Feb 23, 2019 21:46
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It is located entirely in the Western Hemisphere so... 
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Feb 23, 2019 22:18
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China says humanitarian aid should not be forced into Venezuela quote:
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Feb 23, 2019 22:19
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Acebuckeye13 posted:for the record, here's the estimated location of every US Navy carrier strike group and amphibious ready group (i.e. marines) as of the 21st 
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Feb 23, 2019 22:21
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Negrostrike posted:It is located entirely in the Western Hemisphere so... I dunno why I didn't say white man's burden but yeah that is the message coming through that post
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Feb 23, 2019 22:22
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Do you have any evidence at all that actually happened though.
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Feb 23, 2019 22:23
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Mozi posted:Do you have any evidence at all that actually happened though. By the time it actually happens it will be too late, and liberals will insist that the past is the past and we need to move on.
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Feb 23, 2019 22:24
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I'm not sure Colombia or Brazil are even capable of invading Venezuela, even if they wanted to. . . or at least not if they faced any serious opposition.
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Feb 23, 2019 22:24
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Mozi posted:Do you have any evidence at all that actually happened though. No as I am not embedded with the 5000 troops to Colombia
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Feb 23, 2019 22:25
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the US has had troops in colombia for a long time, it didn't start happening now
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Feb 23, 2019 22:29
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Squalid posted:I'm not sure Colombia or Brazil are even capable of invading Venezuela, even if they wanted to. . . They're not capable and at least Brazil is definitely not willing.
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Feb 23, 2019 22:34
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