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Captain Cappy posted:Honestly, the level of discourse after an actual fan of the show decided to show up and voice their opinions has convinced me that everyone is mad at this show because of some twitter hot take made with zero information backing it up. Like I'm not even sure what's wrong with the show anymore. die by my blade, fool
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Feb 24, 2019 07:03
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Huh, wonder if this has calmed down into a actual discussion thread now that we’re a ways out from the inciting incident... Venuz Patrol posted:die by my blade, fool I guess not... 
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Feb 24, 2019 07:55
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I agree. We should have a calm and rational discussion about how the show about buying child slaves being a totally good and just response to things not going your way might be good, if you just stop being so narrow minded. I'll start 
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Feb 24, 2019 08:16
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ConanThe3rd posted:Huh, wonder if this has calmed down into a actual discussion thread now that we’re a ways out from the inciting incident... Tell us what you think about the show.
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Feb 24, 2019 08:58
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Julias posted:Ah that makes sense. The author's gender identity being unknown is still the case, though. It's not unknown. It's genderless. If you mean their biological sex, you're correct. But that's not relevant.
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Feb 24, 2019 09:41
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Onmi posted:It's not unknown. It's genderless. If you mean their biological sex, you're correct. But that's not relevant. The source that people were claiming said the author was genderless turned out to be talking about one of the author's characters, not the author; the person who originally translated it misunderstood the context. As far as I'm aware, there's still no public information available about the author's gender or lack thereof. Thuryl fucked around with this message at 10:10 on Feb 24, 2019 |
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Feb 24, 2019 10:06
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ConanThe3rd posted:Huh, wonder if this has calmed down into a actual discussion thread now that we’re a ways out from the inciting incident... Lmao that 46 pages in people still think that this is supposed to be a proper discussion instead of a quarantine for bad posts
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Feb 24, 2019 12:16
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ConanThe3rd posted:Huh, wonder if this has calmed down into a actual discussion thread now that we’re a ways out from the inciting incident... I mean what else is there to say to that post. Do you really need someone to break it down to see how bad all the points in it were? A discussion requires both sides to give thought to their arguments and there was none in that post.
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Feb 24, 2019 12:29
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I think it's funny how bad it is.
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Feb 24, 2019 12:59
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ConanThe3rd posted:Huh, wonder if this has calmed down into a actual discussion thread now that we’re a ways out from the inciting incident... Be the change you want to see.
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Feb 24, 2019 13:27
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Galvanik posted:I feel like slavery is bad, even if you treat a slave better than someone else does.
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Feb 24, 2019 16:57
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Dire Lemming posted:I mean what else is there to say to that post. Do you really need someone to break it down to see how bad all the points in it were? A discussion requires both sides to give thought to their arguments and there was none in that post. there's thought, it's just all coming from bad faith. fitting for this thread, i suppose
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Feb 24, 2019 17:01
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Thuryl posted:The source that people were claiming said the author was genderless turned out to be talking about one of the author's characters, not the author; the person who originally translated it misunderstood the context. As far as I'm aware, there's still no public information available about the author's gender or lack thereof.
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Feb 24, 2019 17:04
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On the other hand, and this may be presumptuous, a story about a man falsely accused of rape only learning to trust women again after putting himself in a position of absolute power and authority over children, strikes me as very male.
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Feb 24, 2019 17:12
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Mulderman posted:The slave seal bullshit makes no sense and the excuse that Slave girl willingly gets it back in order to protect her from other slavers is idiotic. Because there is NOTHING preventing people from kidnapping her and removing the slave seal like they did before. Why would having it prevent her from being kidnapped again? People hate the Shield hero, so slave seal or not, if they wanted to mess with him they would do so regardless.
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Feb 24, 2019 17:58
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drat the child slave show acts like keeping children as slaves is normal and fine and not a big deal?
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Feb 24, 2019 18:47
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Brought To You By posted:I dropped off the show but I also don't remember many mentions of slaves until we get to the noble who has that one beast kin locked in his cellar dungeon . I don't even remember the slave brand being a big deal because most people who meet Raph don't care she's a slave, they care she's an ally to Naofumi. Same with the big chicken. Don’t you think that the world of shield hero and the protagonist not caring about the girl being a slave and actively endorsing it as good may be indicative of the authors views
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Feb 24, 2019 19:33
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Captain Cappy posted:Honestly, the level of discourse after an actual fan of the show decided to show up and voice their opinions has convinced me that everyone is mad at this show because of some twitter hot take made with zero information backing it up. Like I'm not even sure what's wrong with the show anymore. This is a good post
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Feb 24, 2019 19:35
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Captain Cappy posted:Honestly, the level of discourse after an actual fan of the show decided to show up and voice their opinions has convinced me that everyone is mad at this show because of some twitter hot take made with zero information backing it up. Like I'm not even sure what's wrong with the show anymore. For me to poop on!!!
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Feb 24, 2019 19:36
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Namtab posted:Don’t you think that the world of shield hero and the protagonist not caring about the girl being a slave and actively endorsing it as good may be indicative of the authors views
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Feb 24, 2019 22:05
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who's saying japan has more accepting views on slavery i believe the author does, idk about japan
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Feb 24, 2019 23:15
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You would be surprised by the number of light novels and manga that feature slavery as a prominent recruiting place for the main character. Alongside this most of the isekai stories I've noticed go with beast-kin slaves like Raphtilia. To the point where it's a cliche at this point.
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Feb 25, 2019 00:15
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are you trying to argue that japan does, in fact, have more accepting views on slavery? idgi
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Feb 25, 2019 00:24
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a cartoon duck posted:On the other hand, and this may be presumptuous, a story about a man falsely accused of rape only learning to trust women again after putting himself in a position of absolute power and authority over children, strikes me as very male. How else are they expected to feel like men again than by cowing women into obedience via slavery?
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Feb 25, 2019 01:08
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Brought To You By posted:You would be surprised by the number of light novels and manga that feature slavery as a prominent recruiting place for the main character. Alongside this most of the isekai stories I've noticed go with beast-kin slaves like Raphtilia. To the point where it's a cliche at this point. I don't think that's a sign of Japan as a whole, but more of the catered LN market sustained by chuds. The beast kin thing I've noticed as well. Not sure why beast kin either, but my best guess would be furries or something.
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Feb 25, 2019 01:12
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ninjewtsu posted:are you trying to argue that japan does, in fact, have more accepting views on slavery? idgi
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Feb 25, 2019 01:41
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Everything you put into a story indicates your personal views. Especially if you aren't thinking about it when you do so. Because the stuff you don't think about reveals what you consider "not worth thinking about." IE: What you don't question says a huge amount about what you believe about the world. Even the idea that writing can be "apolitical" merely supports an unquestioned status quo. Clarste fucked around with this message at 02:07 on Feb 25, 2019 |
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Feb 25, 2019 02:01
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Brought To You By posted:No, I'm not up for trying to figure out if what people put into their stories indicates any personal views. And by extension, if an observable trend indicates any larger cultural views. I just care about verisimillitude and internal consistency in writing. I don't even remember the names of most writers whose stories I read. someone who fully identifies as a feminist can still write a sexist story, someone who identifies as a conservative can write a story that has liberal values, etc i do not think the author of shield hero, regardless of their politics, worldview, gender identity, or sexuality, genuinely thinks slavery is a good thing. but they've written a story that rewards slavery. so its worth discussing how that impacts a reading of the story. this is not the same thing as arguing about the author's politics.
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Feb 25, 2019 02:53
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I don’t think the author just happened to accidentally write a story where a man revels in enslaving a woman and has a woman who accuses him of rape renamed to bitch. Stories aren’t birthed from the void fully formed and the way the narrative rationalizes what Shield Hero does as necessary or just what the people around him force him to do hints to more than a bias on the writer’s part.
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Feb 25, 2019 05:04
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TheHan posted:I don’t think the author just happened to accidentally write a story where a man revels in enslaving a woman and has a woman who accuses him of rape renamed to bitch. Stories aren’t birthed from the void fully formed and the way the narrative rationalizes what Shield Hero does as necessary or just what the people around him force him to do hints to more than a bias on the writer’s part. Not just that but the punishments in general. The idea that there's a king resembling Jabba the Hutt whose sole existence in the narrative is to rape to death the evil woman and has done this NUMEROUS times enough that it's well known punishment for princesses who step out of line and yet it's treated as barely something to consider bad didn't just come from nowhere. Keep in mind as well that the author has gone on record saying that the more unpleasant characters in this series are based on people they know.
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Feb 25, 2019 05:26
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Also, this started out as a webnovel, a genre notorious for its tendency to be the author's unfiltered id in literary form. If a webnovel author starts going on and on about how men are hurt and victimised by women, especially women based on people they know, they're probably not speaking for a friend.
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Feb 25, 2019 05:43
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Darth Walrus posted:Also, this started out as a webnovel, a genre notorious for its tendency to be the author's unfiltered id in literary form. If a webnovel author starts going on and on about how men are hurt and victimised by women, especially women based on people they know, they're probably not speaking for a friend. The woman in Shield Hero is not, to my knowledge based on anyone. Endorph posted:the author's politcs and what views the story supports are two different things Basically, I'm with Endorph here.
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Feb 25, 2019 05:47
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ninjewtsu posted:who's saying japan has more accepting views on slavery
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Feb 25, 2019 06:08
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Basically think of it this way, if the author somehow revealed tomorrow with irrefutable evidence that they were objectively an amazing person you wouldn't decide "Oh actually child slavery is good now because it's in this book written by a good person." What the author thinks doesn't matter unless you're talking specifically about the author and this is the Shield Hero thread, not the speculate about an authors problematic views thread.Galvanik posted:Slavery seems pretty common in isekai series. I guess it plays into the whole power fantasy aspect of the genre. Slavery isn't uncommon in fantasy stories, Shield Hero only stands out because very few series actually have the protagonists take part in it.
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Feb 25, 2019 06:15
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We know the author isn’t an amazing person because they wrote Shield Hero.
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Feb 25, 2019 06:20
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Oh no, you got me
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Feb 25, 2019 06:26
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Dire Lemming posted:Slavery isn't uncommon in fantasy stories, Shield Hero only stands out because very few series actually have the protagonists take part in it. That's not entirely accurate. It's quite a number of series I'm reading where the protagonist partakes in slavery, has it portrayed as a good thing and often it is slavery of children or women. Not all of them have gone as far as being animated yet, but I will say Shield Hero is still kind of unique in how it portrays it. I have no idea why it is so ubiquitous, but it is to the point where I kinda of don't consider it a problem in Shield Hero. Or rather, it doesn't ring the alarm bells it ought to, I suppose.
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Feb 25, 2019 06:57
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Galvanik posted:Slavery seems pretty common in isekai series. I guess it plays into the whole power fantasy aspect of the genre. but of course shield hero's just like "slavery, yeah I'm into that"
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Feb 25, 2019 07:40
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People can try and fool themselves into justifying Raphtalia's deal all they want but Nao putting the slave crest on Filo says everything this series wants to say on the issue. Even if they adore the hero and are loyal to them, they still gotta be kept in line and they don't get a say in it.
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Feb 25, 2019 08:25
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And if that is not enough, there's this little gemstone from the slave traders wiki page: Relationship Naofumi: They have a more business like relation and was thrilled to work with Naofumi. He was willing to aid Naofumi for his own reasons. Upon Naofumi’s request, he searches for and collects slaves who were former villagers of Raphtalia’s village. He admires Naofumi's business mind
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Feb 25, 2019 09:19
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