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Dukket posted:Correct- I don't know that was the cause, but I am not aware of anything else that changed between the first time I flip it off and the 2nd. So you shorted hot, neutral and ground together. Take the bundle apart. Put a wire nut on EACH WIRE INDIVIDUALLY. Reset the breaker.
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Feb 25, 2019 01:42
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Motronic posted:GET DOWN ON THE GROUND AND PUT YOUR HAND OVER YOUR HEAD WHERE I CAN SEE THEM.  So in other news, recently my kitchen circuit has been blowing fuses like crazy. For reference I've lived here for 8 months and in the last week I've gone through 3 15-amp fuses for the kitchen circuit, without blowing any before that. So far it's blown when I ran the washing machine and microwave, rice cooker and microwave, and the popcorn air popper and microwave. I know I've done the last 2 several times in the past without issues, so what could be doing it now? The microwave has been the common denominator, but I'm not sure if that's the culprit. I haven't changed power levels or anything on it recently. Nor have I messed with anything hooked up to that circuit. I can deal with it if it's just a limitation of my very old electrical system, but why did it work fine for so long? I'm worried it's a symptom of something else being wrong with the wiring somewhere else. e: After looking up the Microwaves specs, it's probably mostly the microwave. The thing uses 13ish amps. SpartanIvy fucked around with this message at 05:25 on Feb 25, 2019 |
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Feb 25, 2019 04:27
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SpartanIvy posted:I did use some of those WAGO lever nuts and I have to say, they are SO easy to use. I'd still be leery of using them in a heavy use situation though. My god, where have these been all my life? I have been going around my house replacing/upgrading my wiring because they did questionable things (twist off ground wires inside plastic boxes instead of grounding the switch) and every loving outlet or switch in my basement is also a junction. I opened up a light switch hoping to put in a dimmer and out spilled three different sets of wires in a single gang box. These might just make it feasible to wire up the dimmer after all....
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Feb 25, 2019 06:48
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Blindeye posted:My god, where have these been all my life? I have been going around my house replacing/upgrading my wiring because they did questionable things (twist off ground wires inside plastic boxes instead of grounding the switch) and every loving outlet or switch in my basement is also a junction. I opened up a light switch hoping to put in a dimmer and out spilled three different sets of wires in a single gang box. These might just make it feasible to wire up the dimmer after all.... All over Europe, apparently. I got a big mix pack of them myself and recently used them in some "too-short" old wiring in my house, and they were a total dream.
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Feb 25, 2019 13:35
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I've been replacing every wire nut in my house with them as I go, except for the occasional ground wire nut. Last box I opened up had 1 regular switch and 2 dimmers, so 6 cables. All the new switches have ground screws so I would have had 9 ground wires to join, I just said fuckit and added a pigtail to the existing bundle and then split that off with a 5 gang WAGO to the rest of the switches.
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Feb 25, 2019 16:53
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angryrobots posted:Maybe I'm seeing things, but sure looks like a jumper going from the black to the white in the plastic box. Yeah, I'm bit confused with that - here is a better picture. I had hoped to put both switches in one box, cuz two boxes six inches apart looks dumb.  Motronic posted:So you shorted hot, neutral and ground together. Sorry, I guess I didn't answer your question fully, it was further back in the thread. The time line is: I removed a wall fixture which gave me this.  The bottom pair of wires were connected to the light I flipped the breaker back on later that day, no problem. The next day, I turned the breaker off, removed the aforementioned outlet:  THEN it wouldn't reset. Why would one be a problem and not the other? I'm just thrilled to be in a house that doesn't have any knob and tube, but I do feel like there are some shenanigans going on here.
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Feb 25, 2019 17:34
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Dukket posted:Yeah, I'm bit confused with that - here is a better picture. I had hoped to put both switches in one box, cuz two boxes six inches apart looks dumb. That's a better picture, and I take back my theory. I don't -think- that's your short, also based on your other comment that: Dukket posted:I flipped the breaker back on later that day, no problem. The next day, I turned the breaker off, removed the aforementioned outlet: Hard to see what's going on in this picture. Like Motronic said, is everything that's in this (maybe) problem box completely separated?
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Feb 25, 2019 18:03
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Dukket posted:I flipped the breaker back on later that day, no problem. The next day, I turned the breaker off, removed the aforementioned outlet: This last photo looks like you've twisted together the hot with other wires that are your ground and/or neutrals in this box, which is a direct short.
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Feb 25, 2019 18:03
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Dukket posted:Why would one be a problem and not the other? Forgive the stupid question, but was the light on a switch?
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Feb 25, 2019 18:06
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glynnenstein posted:This last photo looks like you've twisted together the hot with other wires that are your ground and/or neutrals in this box, which is a direct short. That's what I'm seeing too. Look at it this way: When you plug something into the outlet you complete a circuit, electricity flows from one prong, through whatever you plugged in, then back to the outlet through the other prong. The object that's plugged in provides resistance, a load that prevents electricity from flowing too quickly. By using a single wire nut you've completed a circuit that doesn't have this load and electricity is free to flow as fast as it wants, which is bad as it causes wires to heat up and catch fire. That's why the breaker is refusing to reset. Separate each wire from the outlet box into it's own wire nut and you no longer have a circuit. You should then be able to reset the breaker provided it hasn't been damaged.
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Feb 25, 2019 18:14
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Waygos for the win! Some time ago I made the discovery the builder of my house used a crimp ferrule to hold the ground wires in every switch and outlet box together. Except that they didn't use the proper crimp tool and instead appeared to have just squeezed them together with pliers. Predictably, they where all falling apart. Twice now I have lost ground on 2 different circuits. They also used the backstabs on the outlets, instead of the screws. And then recently, my cousin plugged in a cellphone charger to a outlet in the guest room which resulted in a large spark and the breaker for that circuit flipping. On further examination I discovered the hot wire had worked its way out of the backstab on the outlet. It appeared to have contacted the ground wire when it fell out. As a result of this, I spent an entire weekend fixing every single outlet and switch in the house. Moving the wires from the backstabs to the screws, getting rid of all the improperly crimped ferrules on the ground wires and replacing them with Waygos instead. The Waygos really made it easy to repair the ground wires since I had maybe 2 inches of wire coming into the outlet box in most cases. Getting a wire nut on 3 wires when one of them doesn't even stick outside the box is not really possible!
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Feb 25, 2019 19:43
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KnifeWrench posted:Forgive the stupid question, but was the light on a switch? Dear Dukket: I have no idea what you are going to do with a multimeter. You shorted your socket and didn't know why your breaker won't reset! And yes, if you flip your light-switch on where you shorted the cables of the fixture, a breaker will flip and you won't be able to reset it too. I really have no idea what you are even doing. Please do me a favor and at least wear safety googles, because if you use your multimeter wrong and is old/cheap it could explode. Seriously. Dukket posted:Why would one be a problem and not the other? I typed it out before how the electron sucking works, but I can understand if that doesn't help you.
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Feb 25, 2019 21:37
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stevewm posted:Waygos for the win! E: apparently I have "screw & clamp back wire" type outlets which are not the same as backstab, but look identical. SpartanIvy fucked around with this message at 23:57 on Feb 25, 2019 |
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Feb 25, 2019 23:54
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FogHelmut posted:I was replacing some worn out outlets and I found an aluminum wire backstabbed into one which then leads to some underground conduit attached to an outdoor outlet. Further investigation shows this is stupider than it sounds.  edit - the outdoor outlet was full of dead beetles
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Feb 25, 2019 23:56
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FogHelmut posted:Further investigation shows this is stupider than it sounds. You fool, those were electrical load bearing beetles!
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Feb 26, 2019 00:01
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SpartanIvy posted:I just used the back stabs for the first time on a few outlets and they looked to be held on by the same screw. Is there something inherently wrong with them? These where the regular "quick" backstabs. Widely regarded by competent electricians as terrible. Only thing holding the wire is a bit of spring pressure. And apparently with the design of the outlets I have, movement of the outlet itself from regular use caused the wire to work itself out. The type you talk about are much better. And those are the kind I installed in my garage. The screw drives a clamp down to hold onto the wire.
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Feb 26, 2019 00:05
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stevewm posted:These where the regular "quick" backstabs. Widely regarded by competent electricians as terrible. Only thing holding the wire is a bit of spring pressure. And apparently with the design of the outlets I have, movement of the outlet itself from regular use caused the wire to work itself out. I was baffled by that better kind because, at first, I assumed it was for situations where you add a forked spade to a short wire and they often have a little piece of plastic preventing the spade from getting good contact (at least in the ones I've seen). I can't say I'd be thrilled to use one on a straight piece of stripped copper. I like the extra connectivity a 3/4 turned piece of wire gives. Edit: Why, why would you put in new wiring and then intentionally clip the ground wire as far back as possible in a ceiling light? Blindeye fucked around with this message at 01:18 on Feb 26, 2019 |
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Feb 26, 2019 00:23
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I don't know who does that poo poo with cutting wires short but do me a favor and punch them in the face if you ever catch them.
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Feb 26, 2019 02:14
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Mimesweeper posted:I don't know who does that poo poo with cutting wires short but do me a favor and punch them in the face if you ever catch them. Dunno wtf they where thinking. The ground wires coming from the wall where so short on most of my outlets. The wire didn't even extend outside the box! Guessing that's why they used the terrible furrels.
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Feb 26, 2019 02:34
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stevewm posted:Dunno wtf they where thinking. The ground wires coming from the wall where so short on most of my outlets. The wire didn't even extend outside the box! Guessing that's why they used the terrible furrels. Between that and people making up what could have been a very neat and serviceable box into a tangled rats nest of bullshit I pretty much hate everybody who isn't me. No, go away, I don't want any apprentices, I don't want any help, just let me build it. I don't know what's so hard about "imagine you're the next poor bastard who has to open this up and gently caress with it" but it seems like nobody can get it through their thick skulls.
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Feb 26, 2019 02:36
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Mimesweeper posted:I don't know who does that poo poo with cutting wires short but do me a favor and punch them in the face if you ever catch them. We call them "residential electricians" 
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Feb 26, 2019 02:55
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angryrobots posted:We call them "residential electricians" I'm so, so, so glad my boss refuses resi work these days. I never want to crawl under another house again and gently caress attics forever.
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Feb 26, 2019 03:14
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Dukket posted:Yeah, I'm bit confused with that - here is a better picture. I had hoped to put both switches in one box, cuz two boxes six inches apart looks dumb. stop what you are doing and call an electrician. if you dont know enough to know that connecting the black (or red) wire to the white wire is A Bad Thing you shouldn't be touching any electrical anything at all ever
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Feb 26, 2019 04:15
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How bothered should I be that the common single-pole switches in my house are not grounded? Most of my house has new(ish) wiring but at the time it was done switches didn't have grounding screws, and the new work boxes they used were plastic. Inevitably, I have opened 5 up so far and found they're often being used in lieu of junction boxes, so you have three sets of romex inside making it crowded (hence getting those wago connectors), and they twisted up the ground wires in the back of the box as tight as they can. With great effort I managed to undo one set enough to force a pigtail inside but that was in a box that wasn't used as a junction so I had a bit more room to work. My understanding is like for like replacements are okay not to be grounded but being the safety nut/perfectionist I am I'd hate to do that and have it bite me in the rear end.
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Feb 27, 2019 08:12
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Blindeye posted:How bothered should I be that the common single-pole switches in my house are not grounded? Do it, if it is at all possible. Switches are always supplied with a hot, and if that lead gets loose and contacts any metal on the switch or the ground lug itself (or the switch mechanism itself is damaged), you now have a dangerous situation. When someone slaps their hand on the switch to activate it, it's likely they'll hit the faceplate screws.
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Feb 27, 2019 15:12
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Okay, so I have 3-4 weird things that my house does that make me worried the wiring is hosed up somehow. I know this isn't a lot to go on, but I'd love an informed opinion on any of these that inspire you: Mystery 1: I have a battery powered, capacitive touch enabled kitchen faucet. It turns on and off when it's not being actuated: sometimes spontaneously, sometimes when the dishwasher clicks on, sometimes when I get a static shock from the coat rack across the room. Mystery 2: My daughter has a musical shape puzzle that plays sounds when you match the right instruments. I suspect this is also capacitive in nature. At the end of the day, when we turn off our hall lights, one of the sounds will play. It's spooky. This only happens when the lights have been on for a few minutes or longer. Mystery 3: My doorbell transformer keeps dying. It's been replaced twice. Mystery 4: My TV has trouble reliably receiving 4K images over HDMI. It is mounted to the same wall where the breaker box is, and (I believe) I've ruled out everything except EMI, but shouldn't (shielded) HDMI be robust to relatively low frequency common mode noise? I haven't had problems with it for a while since the last cable replacement, but without ever finding or addressing a root cause, I can't be confident that it won't start up again. How concerned should I be about any or all of these?
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Feb 27, 2019 16:44
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B-Nasty posted:Do it, if it is at all possible. That has been my approach so far. Some switches (abouf half) are just hopelessly cramped due to being used as a junction and, naturally, the ground wires are cut short after they were twisted together. If they'd gone to the trouble of having grounded metal boxes none of this would have been a problem....
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Feb 27, 2019 16:51
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KnifeWrench posted:Okay, so I have 3-4 weird things that my house does that make me worried the wiring is hosed up somehow. I know this isn't a lot to go on, but I'd love an informed opinion on any of these that inspire you: I'm no electrician, but I'd check your mains voltage with a multimeter, test for faulty breakers that aren't flipping, and check to see if your house is built on an old Indian burial ground.
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Feb 27, 2019 17:06
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Blindeye posted:That has been my approach so far. Some switches (abouf half) are just hopelessly cramped due to being used as a junction and, naturally, the ground wires are cut short after they were twisted together. If they'd gone to the trouble of having grounded metal boxes none of this would have been a problem.... Can you fit a pigtail onto the existing twisted grounds with one of those copper crimps? A good twist is better than the crimps, but they'll work in a pinch if you're tight on available wire.
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Feb 27, 2019 17:25
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B-Nasty posted:Can you fit a pigtail onto the existing twisted grounds with one of those copper crimps? A good twist is better than the crimps, but they'll work in a pinch if you're tight on available wire. There are a few where I could twist a bit of 12 gauge wire around the base of the twisted romex grounds, but it feels weird not using a proper connector like a wire nut. Are there any downsides to twisting on a pigtail if it's only for grounding?
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Feb 27, 2019 17:53
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Blindeye posted:There are a few where I could twist a bit of 12 gauge wire around the base of the twisted romex grounds, but it feels weird not using a proper connector like a wire nut. Are there any downsides to twisting on a pigtail if it's only for grounding?  I didn't read that as "twist it without a wire nut".
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Feb 27, 2019 18:08
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Blindeye posted:Are there any downsides to twisting on a pigtail if it's only for grounding? Sure, arcing (fire), no actual connection (electrocuting people), it's illegal. Take a picture.
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Feb 27, 2019 18:14
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Blindeye posted:There are a few where I could twist a bit of 12 gauge wire around the base of the twisted romex grounds, but it feels weird not using a proper connector like a wire nut. Are there any downsides to twisting on a pigtail if it's only for grounding? You need a crimp/nut for it to be up to code, but, if I had a nickle for every box I've seen with just a huge twist of the grounds without a mechanical connector... If I had my choice between a solid, stable twist of the grounds without any crimps/nuts and an ungrounded switch, I know what I would do.
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Feb 27, 2019 18:19
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B-Nasty posted:You need a crimp/nut for it to be up to code, but, if I had a nickle for every box I've seen with just a huge twist of the grounds without a mechanical connector... Agreed. I have been using wire nuts where I have room, but I've never used a copper crimp. That might solve some situations, if I can fit my crimper in these boxes. Every box I've opened in my house has twisted up ground wires (if they weren't cut off entirely....). But the twists are 1-1 1/2 inches long and so tight that just prying them loose is a challenge. Thankfully grounding the boxes has only been a problem for switches; outlets seem to have intact ground wires (where new romex was run). Blindeye fucked around with this message at 18:49 on Feb 27, 2019 |
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Feb 27, 2019 18:33
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Blindeye posted:Agreed. I have been using wire nuts where I have room, but I've never used a copper crimp. That might solve some situations, if I can fit my crimper in these boxes. See the above about the Wago lever nuts. I've got the same overcrowded old box problem, and they have been an absolute godsend.
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Mar 2, 2019 20:55
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Hubis posted:See the above about the Wago lever nuts. I've got the same overcrowded old box problem, and they have been an absolute godsend. I already ordered some and they arrived today. They help but sadly some boxes were just too crowded to add more than a standard switch.
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Mar 2, 2019 21:34
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I am trying to install LED lighting under the cabinets in my kitchen and wanted to see if there are any suggestions and ask advice on the power part of the project. I have a total of close to 15 feet of under cabinet space and will be running a roll of these lights My plan is to get a magnetic transformer and then control it with an in-wall dimmer switch. The big issue I have is that aside from snaking the wire in the wall from the switch all the other wiring will be done in gap underneath the cabinet (~1.5 inches deep). Space where the switch and power wiring will be looks like this:  Currently in that switch box is the garbage disposal and another small overhead light. My plan is to combine those 2 switches using this) and then add a magnetic dimming switch (possibly a smart switch). I will snake the wire from the dimmer to under the cabinet and over to above the bread box where I will use either the waterproof or non-waterproof 40W version of this). This brings me to my dilemma, using the nonwaterproof version I can do the wiring inside the box and it will be cleaner, however, the box will extend about 1/2 inch below my cabinets. Also, it is a kitchen counter close to the sink which makes me worry about splashing. If I use the waterproof box it has a much lower profile but the wiring is done outside the box so I will have to figure out a way to safely make the 120v connections which would be exposed. Any advice I which would be safest? There are no other switches I could tap into to put the transformer in a better position so my only other option would be something that looks much more like an add on rather than an integrated part of the house.
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Mar 3, 2019 20:11
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Question: Are you planning to run the lights in something like this? https://www.amazon.com/Muzata-Alumi...=gateway&sr=8-6
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Mar 3, 2019 20:24
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RabbitWizard posted:Question: Are you planning to run the lights in something like this? https://www.amazon.com/Muzata-Alumi...=gateway&sr=8-6 Been debating between that and something like https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01L7E4LMK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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Mar 3, 2019 20:37
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dalstrs posted:Been debating between that and something like https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01L7E4LMK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 I'd definitely go with the one RabbitWizard linked (which I have used in the past); the one you linked looks like you'd need to put brackets in every inch or two to keep the run from sagging, which sounds like a pain in the rear end. Your time is worth the extra $15.
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Mar 3, 2019 20:54
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