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mllaneza posted:She's a good candidate for being a fan of The Orville. Captain Mercer is certainly no Picard, but it hits all the TNG notes. We have been watching it, though Hulu's ads are starting to drive her nuts because their algorithm thinks a non smoking couple need to see ads for palliative medicines for stage 4 lung cancer.
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Feb 27, 2019 14:30
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Old Boot posted:I'm trying to think of how I managed this before. Mostly, I just brute-forced it, or made it quid-pro-quo, like-- okay, so you have this show you like that I've been lukewarm on. I have this show I like that you're lukewarm on. We'll have a night where I watch a couple episodes of your thing, and the night after that, you watch a couple of mine. How does that sound? This worked for me; both Farscape and B5 took her a while to warm up to, but she ended up loving them both - B5 so much that at the end she wanted an immediate rewatch. And so far I've gotten a couple of good shows (Chuck and Person of Interest) I hadn't seen yet too.
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Feb 27, 2019 14:38
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Son of Sam-I-Am posted:This worked for me; both Farscape and B5 took her a while to warm up to, but she ended up loving them both - B5 so much that at the end she wanted an immediate rewatch. Person of Interest is great, especially once you get past the first season and they start to ditch the interchangeable “problem of the week” episodes.
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Feb 27, 2019 15:09
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Thinking of streaming an ep and commenting on it with a friend, which one do you reckon? I've seen the whole show, she has seen bits.
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Feb 27, 2019 21:24
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Passing Through Gethsemane
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Feb 27, 2019 22:32
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Acts of Sacrifice  For a real answer, I think Fall of Night or Severed Dreams both have enough going on to be interesting on their own even without the full context of what led up to them.
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Feb 28, 2019 01:40
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So watching Signs and Portents again, and wondering Why did Morden/the Shadows decide to help the Centauri? Had they decided before they sent in Morden? Did the answers to his question lead them to pick the Centauri? Wouldn't helping the Narn potentially cause just as much chaos? Did Morden ever ask the humans what they wanted?
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Feb 28, 2019 03:14
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FISHMANPET posted:So watching Signs and Portents again, and wondering Why did Morden/the Shadows decide to help the Centauri? Had they decided before they sent in Morden? Did the answers to his question lead them to pick the Centauri? Wouldn't helping the Narn potentially cause just as much chaos? Did Morden ever ask the humans what they wanted? The Narn and Centauri were similar, yes. I don't think the explanation is directly given in the show, but the evidence is there. G'kar's answer ended with the destruction of the Centauri, that was all he wanted. Meanwhile, Londo, had an answer that was more ambitious than just destroying his old enemy - he wanted the Republic to return to its rightful place. Kosh stopped Morden before he could ask the humans. "Leave this place, they are not for you."
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Feb 28, 2019 03:19
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FISHMANPET posted:So watching Signs and Portents again, and wondering Why did Morden/the Shadows decide to help the Centauri? Had they decided before they sent in Morden? Did the answers to his question lead them to pick the Centauri? Wouldn't helping the Narn potentially cause just as much chaos? Did Morden ever ask the humans what they wanted? They chose the Centauri because Londo was a VERY easy mark as an old man prattling about "the good old days", and G'Kar is not a viable target because the Narn just tossed off one oppressor and would almost certainly not fall in line with another (literally) from the shadows. All it took was a subtle nudge (which the Shadows wrote the book on) to push the entire galactic political climate into a favourable upheaval. If other fronts had taken the bait, it would've just made even more general chaos and fingerpointing, which would've still benefited the Shadows.
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Feb 28, 2019 03:21
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It's a just punishment that TKO follows after Signs and Portents but honestly I don't hate it? And yeah I think maybe the Narn are played to be a warrior race in the begging so maybe you're supposed to think they'd try and take over the galaxy with shadow help but in reality they would just want what was once theirs.
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Feb 28, 2019 03:29
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MrL_JaKiri posted:Passing Through Gethsemane An excellent episode. By Any Means Necessary has a good, self-contained story. A Race Through Dark Places or Mind War because Bester episodes always have something to love.
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Feb 28, 2019 03:48
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FISHMANPET posted:So watching Signs and Portents again, and wondering Why did Morden/the Shadows decide to help the Centauri? Had they decided before they sent in Morden? Did the answers to his question lead them to pick the Centauri? Wouldn't helping the Narn potentially cause just as much chaos? Did Morden ever ask the humans what they wanted? Morgen didn’t ask the humans because they were already in bed with Earthdome. Or at least Clark and his faction.
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Feb 28, 2019 06:26
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Neddy Seagoon posted:They chose the Centauri because Londo was a VERY easy mark as an old man prattling about "the good old days", and G'Kar is not a viable target because the Narn just tossed off one oppressor and would almost certainly not fall in line with another (literally) from the shadows. All it took was a subtle nudge (which the Shadows wrote the book on) to push the entire galactic political climate into a favourable upheaval. If other fronts had taken the bait, it would've just made even more general chaos and fingerpointing, which would've still benefited the Shadows. More to the point, the Centauri "wish" was more ambitious. The Narn just wanted revenge. You can see G'Kar's confusion when Morden asks him what comes after that. The Centauri wanted an empire back.
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Feb 28, 2019 06:34
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Absurd Alhazred posted:More to the point, the Centauri "wish" was more ambitious. The Narn just wanted revenge. You can see G'Kar's confusion when Morden asks him what comes after that. The Centauri wanted an empire back. G'Kar's confusion is also a dealbreaker for the Shadows in of itself. They can't actually impose a goal by their own shared rules with the Vorlons, they can only "assist" and influence others. They'd have no way to keep the Narn leashed indefinitely, and if they torched Centauri Prime for G'Kar the moment the planet was a cinder they have no further influence over him. They can, and did, spin Londo along indefinitely because his goal was so grand and intricate that they could shuffle pieces on the board through him for a very long time.
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Feb 28, 2019 06:37
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Signs and Portents: Some valid points have been made, but there's a simpler reason why the Shadows do as they do. Their ethos is growth through destruction, and that's exactly what Londo wants. But if G'Kar had wanted to build the Greater Narn Regime over the top of the Empire then the Shadows would still probably not have chosen him over Londo because G'Quan primed the Narn to distrust the Shadows. Londo sees the Shadows only as a source of power, but to G'Kar they're literally the devil. Thinking about this, it's just brilliant how well the Narn are fleshed out. You start out thinking they're faux-Klingons, but the more you learn the more you understand exactly why they're the way they are. They're much more than "barbarian warriors in space".
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Feb 28, 2019 09:29
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Jedit posted:Signs and Portents: Some valid points have been made, but there's a simpler reason why the Shadows do as they do. Their ethos is growth through destruction, and that's exactly what Londo wants. But if G'Kar had wanted to build the Greater Narn Regime over the top of the Empire then the Shadows would still probably not have chosen him over Londo because G'Quan primed the Narn to distrust the Shadows. Londo sees the Shadows only as a source of power, but to G'Kar they're literally the devil. Hell, they aren't really a "warrior race" at all, they're a race so scarred by their history they're practically all PTSD-crippled veterans. Not so much "war is a glorious virtue" as "war is the only way we can survive in this universe".
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Mar 3, 2019 01:37
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I feel like I haven't watched Mind War as much as a lot of the other episodes I have, even though it is pretty momentous when you think about it.
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Mar 3, 2019 02:28
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On my first run through where my wife would catch a couple of episodes she saw G'kar being angry about something and was like "those are like the Klingons right?" but really they're much more like the Bajorans if you really think about it.
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Mar 3, 2019 02:33
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Oh absolutely, gkar is most like kira
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Mar 3, 2019 02:45
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I feel like they say somewhere that the Narn formed a mighty empire after coming out from their colonial domination. I mean they're on the B5 security council, not the league of unaligned worlds. They got rolled by the Centauri, but only because the Shadows could wipe out worlds for them. And even after G'kar has his revelation and becomes more of a man of peace, the few other Narn we see are still pretty aggressive. They just have a lot of extra dimension in addition to the warrior race archetype.
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Mar 3, 2019 02:54
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SlothfulCobra posted:I feel like they say somewhere that the Narn formed a mighty empire after coming out from their colonial domination. I mean they're on the B5 security council, not the league of unaligned worlds. They got rolled by the Centauri, but only because the Shadows could wipe out worlds for them. Wasn't part of it that they had a lot of liberated Centauri ships and weapons on their hands as they kicked them out the door that gave them a kickstart into galactic colonization.
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Mar 3, 2019 03:11
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One of the things B5 touches upon on several occasions is that different races have significantly different drives for doing things at different speeds. The humans are called out for being super-rapid expansionists at some point, I think.
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Mar 3, 2019 03:15
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Wasn't part of it that they had a lot of liberated Centauri ships and weapons on their hands as they kicked them out the door that gave them a kickstart into galactic colonization. Yep. It's why they're so happy to sell weapons to the humans during the Minbari War -- if the Minbari figure it out, they'll find Centauri weapons.
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Mar 3, 2019 03:25
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Rewatching Signs and Portents now, after watching The War Prayer, and when Delenn has that moment with Morden where that triangle on her forehead starts glowing, it reminds me of when the Home Front people branded her friend in the former. I wonder if you're supposed to think of the Vorlons as having branded the Minbari. Also, Morden went to great trouble to see G'Kar and ask him what he wants, it's clear that it's the scope of the response which makes him decide against attempting to pull the Narns in. Edit: The vision of an exploding B5 that Lady Ladira shows Sinclair... that's the one at the end of Sleeping in Light, when B5 is scuttled, right? Absurd Alhazred fucked around with this message at 04:58 on Mar 3, 2019 |
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Mar 3, 2019 04:25
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Rewatching Signs and Portents now, after watching The War Prayer, and when Delenn has that moment with Morden where that triangle on her forehead starts glowing, it reminds me of when the Home Front people branded her friend in the former. I wonder if you're supposed to think of the Vorlons as having branded the Minbari. Also, Morden went to great trouble to see G'Kar and ask him what he wants, it's clear that it's the scope of the response which makes him decide against attempting to pull the Narns in. I think it's supposed to be an alternate future, maybe one where Sheridan didn't detonate the nuke in Z'ha'dum. Although it could harken to the original treatment of the show where it's supposed to end with B5 getting destroyed and the whole Babylon Prime sequel show.
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Mar 3, 2019 05:27
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hope and vaseline posted:I think it's supposed to be an alternate future, maybe one where Sheridan didn't detonate the nuke in Z'ha'dum. Although it could harken to the original treatment of the show where it's supposed to end with B5 getting destroyed and the whole Babylon Prime sequel show. Bingo. But it was also repurposed into the alternate future (I think the footage is reused during War Without End) and the ending of Sleeping in Light is reminiscent of it.
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Mar 3, 2019 05:31
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hope and vaseline posted:I think it's supposed to be an alternate future, maybe one where Sheridan didn't detonate the nuke in Z'ha'dum. Although it could harken to the original treatment of the show where it's supposed to end with B5 getting destroyed and the whole Babylon Prime sequel show. That sequel show was an insane idea. What network was ever going to try out a series planned to end on a cliffhanger and depend on a spinoff to resolve the story of the main characters?
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Mar 3, 2019 21:58
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Mar 4, 2019 03:36
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Just chillin
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Mar 4, 2019 03:45
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Did Jerry Doyle ever talk about how his personal politics compared to those of Garibaldi?
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Mar 4, 2019 10:40
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evobatman posted:Did Jerry Doyle ever talk about how his personal politics compared to those of Garibaldi? JMS has basically said they're one and the same.
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Mar 4, 2019 11:02
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epenthesis posted:That sequel show was an insane idea. What network was ever going to try out a series planned to end on a cliffhanger and depend on a spinoff to resolve the story of the main characters? I don't even understand what the point of making it a 'sequel' was supposed to be. Was it literally just "We can't call it Babylon 5 after we blow up the station, so we'd have to make it a new show rather than just B5, season six"?
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Mar 4, 2019 11:03
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Angry Salami posted:I don't even understand what the point of making it a 'sequel' was supposed to be. Was it literally just "We can't call it Babylon 5 after we blow up the station, so we'd have to make it a new show rather than just B5, season six"? We saw how well that worked with Crusade.
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Mar 4, 2019 12:04
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Angry Salami posted:I don't even understand what the point of making it a 'sequel' was supposed to be. Was it literally just "We can't call it Babylon 5 after we blow up the station, so we'd have to make it a new show rather than just B5, season six"? I think it was supposed to be a ‘it’s hit the fan now, kiddies, stay tuned next series to see how it turns out!”
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Mar 4, 2019 12:15
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evobatman posted:Did Jerry Doyle ever talk about how his personal politics compared to those of Garibaldi? Jerry Doyle was playing Jerry Doyle on the entire show, they just called him “Garibaldi” while the cameras were running.
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Mar 4, 2019 13:24
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Maybe season 4 Garibaldi was the real Jerry Doyle...
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Mar 4, 2019 23:33
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evobatman posted:Did Jerry Doyle ever talk about how his personal politics compared to those of Garibaldi? Jerry Doyle ran for Congress as a Republican at one point and had his own semi popular crazy right wing AM talk radio show for years after B5 was over. Garibaldi's line about having electric bleachers instead of electric chairs is a direct Doyle quote from a lunchtime conversation.
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Mar 4, 2019 23:51
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Doyle also died from alcoholism.
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Mar 5, 2019 01:48
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Timby posted:Doyle also died from alcoholism. I think Garabaldi's alcoholism came from Doyle. I think during Season 5, it was Doyle who suggested that Garabaldi should end up drinking again and it should end up really affecting things (the bit where he's drunkenly passed out and war breaks out).
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Mar 5, 2019 01:54
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Just finished watching the S1 finale, Chrysalis, and I'm still struck by the drama of Santiago's assassination. I think I only watched this later in reruns, but this would have originally appeared a year before Rabin was assassinated, probably closer by the time it was broadcast in Israel.
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Mar 5, 2019 03:54
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