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Same here, I sometimes play a few turns when I feel like I can withstand the shame of playing an unpopular Steam game, but always give up when I encounter things like the highlighted big mushroom tiles on the fungal biome which they just forgot to hide after the last patch.  I would love a Beyond Earth 2 in the near future, though. I still got far more hours of entertainment out of BE than from many other games.
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Feb 27, 2019 23:18
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I'm trying to imagine starting a new game of civ 3 in 2019 and bonus points if it's that person's first ever introduction to the series.
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Feb 27, 2019 23:33
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The Human Crouton posted:Since someone mentioned Alpha Centauri, I was thinking about it while playing VI yesterday and remembered how there was actual visual elevation on the tiles. This makes me think that the ocean rising mechanic in VI is really out of place for the game. Why should I have to check a lens to see if my coast is going to flood? If they had included proper elevation in the game, I could naturally see which tiles would flood. It's so hard to tell which seas have gone up as well when it does happen. It's not...urgent enough.
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Feb 28, 2019 00:44
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not wanting to play Beyond Earth to get my SMAC-alike fix was the reason i asked about mods for civ6 oh well
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Feb 28, 2019 00:48
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Radio Free Kobold posted:not wanting to play Beyond Earth to get my SMAC-alike fix was the reason i asked about mods for civ6 Yeah, nobody has overhauled this game. JFD's Rule with Faith is as close as anyone has gotten, but that's not a full rework by any means. What makes me sad is that nobody ever completely redid V either. Unless you count Vox Populi. I'd have loved a FFH version of V.
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Feb 28, 2019 00:51
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The engine they used in Civ5 it was impossible to change map tiles from one type of terrain to another, for example plains to hill, once the map was created. Same with civ6. It's an engine limitation because game studio's don't give a gently caress about longevity nor modding.
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Feb 28, 2019 00:56
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They do so care about modding. They said that they made the names of mountain ranges and rivers moddable and that modders would have a field day with such power.
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Feb 28, 2019 01:14
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I'm mad with power digging tunnels in mount titties
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Feb 28, 2019 01:24
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Radio Free Kobold posted:There's quite a few mods for Civ 4 that do the whole "Alpha Centauri" space/sci-fi thing. Problem is, I don't like Civ 4, I like Civ 6. Until we get the core DLL source code we're not going to be seeing any massive overhauls on that scale any time soon.
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Feb 28, 2019 02:28
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If I want to play a 'peaceful' culture flipping game as Eleanor, would it make sense to try to cram in more civs than normal on a map to get everyone close together for maximum loyalty shenanigans?
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Feb 28, 2019 03:49
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rock bands are loving broken, they're way too cheap to buy with faith and three of them driving around spamming their wonders lets you rush a culture victory really quickly
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Feb 28, 2019 06:26
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Radio Free Kobold posted:Are there any mods for Civ 6 that try to turn it into Alpha Centauri? Or, failing that, anything like FFH that use Civ 6 as a platform to make something mostly new? You could just play Endless Legend, it is like Civ 6 and Alpha Centauri
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Feb 28, 2019 08:38
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My new favorite city state is Nazca, their tile improvement is hilarious for those half desert cities I found for strategic and luxury resources, an oasis ending up with 6 production is kinda funny.
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Feb 28, 2019 09:17
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I had a real push at winning a religious victory (on a Huge map) and I feel like without La Venta to pick the promotions of your apostles it just takes too long to convert cities. It feels a bit weird that one city state can change the game so much.
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Feb 28, 2019 09:59
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Apparently only 20 civs can have a civ color on the map, the rest become transparant. I see there's a mod for that luckily but what a strange thing to not notice while testing!
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Feb 28, 2019 11:10
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Has anyone found a decent, working mod that removes Spies?
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Feb 28, 2019 12:05
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Tahirovic posted:Has anyone found a decent, working mod that removes Spies? It is pretty much bullshit that there's no option to get rid of them, they're annoying and don't add anything, at least for me.
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Feb 28, 2019 14:31
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Taear posted:It is pretty much bullshit that there's no option to get rid of them, they're annoying and don't add anything, at least for me. Really? To me they are one of the true catch-up mechanics to slow down a leader and bring yourself back to the pack. If you play on lower difficulties and are always ahead then I guess it'd be annoying keeping them on defense all the time.
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Feb 28, 2019 14:48
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Are you saying they don't contribute to your enjoyment of the game or that they don't provide any in-game value? For the most part, I enjoy using them. The tech boosts are nice and stealing is great for keeping your economy going. They're kind of annoying to manage if you have like 4 of them at the end of the game though. I just had a game where I built my first spy (at least 5 turns), shipped him off to a city-state (5 turns), waited for him to establish (5 turns), had him fabricate scandal (5 turns), then get assassinated somehow without accomplishing anything. I feel like spies shouldn't be able to straight up die from their first mission. It's too big of a production and time investment for them to be completely useless. I guess the lesson is that you should never send spies to city states before they have leveled. You can't gain sources so the max chance you get is like 65%. I also wonder if the game is completely accurate when it tells you those success/failure chances. I have failed far too many attempts at 75%. When fleeing a city, I exclusively choose the longest/safest option and it feels like they die about half of the time they are caught using that option.
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Feb 28, 2019 15:06
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God I fucking love Diablo 3 gold, it even paid for this shitty title
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Tom Tucker posted:Really? To me they are one of the true catch-up mechanics to slow down a leader and bring yourself back to the pack. If you play on lower difficulties and are always ahead then I guess it'd be annoying keeping them on defense all the time. This is one area where I do feel Civ 5 did the job better. It was a very elegant rubberbanding mechanism, but then everyone bitched about it being too simplistic and one-dimensional so now it's buried under a layer of micromanagement. It's not really a big enough part of the game to bug me that much, though.
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Feb 28, 2019 15:45
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Curious question - how long do multiplayer games usually take? I'm sort of interested, but it's rare for me to have more than 2-3 hours available in one chunk of time.
Dragongem fucked around with this message at 16:01 on Feb 28, 2019 |
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Feb 28, 2019 15:52
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pogothemonkey0 posted:Are you saying they don't contribute to your enjoyment of the game or that they don't provide any in-game value? For the most part, I enjoy using them. The tech boosts are nice and stealing is great for keeping your economy going. They're kind of annoying to manage if you have like 4 of them at the end of the game though. Yeah, the return on investment for them is too poor. They're expensive, have high chances of getting caught, take too long, and then if they actually succeed they bring back so little. They're pretty useless as a gameplay mechanic, and it feels like they're only there as extra flavor for the player to distract themselves with if/when they get bored of playing the base game.
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Feb 28, 2019 16:31
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In general I haven't been a big fan of any implementations of espionage. The balance is always thrown way off (in civ4 the amount of visibility spies produce is way too good both on offense or defense for their relatively cheap cost), but at their worst playing with spies against the AI feels like a game of whack-a-mole. In Civ4 and 6, I'm too often feeling like the AI is just randomly exploding improvements and buildings in an attempt to give the player something to do. The lategame has always suffered from a lack of good choices, but their solution is to stuff the lategame with little annoyances that do nothing but occupy the players time. Spies are exploding improvements, natural disasters are exploding improvements, pollution is spreading onto tiles etc, it all feels like busy work since there's no player choice, and the player interaction here is just to clean up the mess.
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Feb 28, 2019 16:36
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Borsche69 posted:In general I haven't been a big fan of any implementations of espionage. The balance is always thrown way off (in civ4 the amount of visibility spies produce is way too good both on offense or defense for their relatively cheap cost), but at their worst playing with spies against the AI feels like a game of whack-a-mole. In Civ4 and 6, I'm too often feeling like the AI is just randomly exploding improvements and buildings in an attempt to give the player something to do. The lategame has always suffered from a lack of good choices, but their solution is to stuff the lategame with little annoyances that do nothing but occupy the players time. Spies are exploding improvements, natural disasters are exploding improvements, pollution is spreading onto tiles etc, it all feels like busy work since there's no player choice, and the player interaction here is just to clean up the mess. Couldn't the same be said for the entire game? The player doesn't control anything the AI does, spies included. The entire game is built around empire building and disaster mitigation. I don't mean natural disasters either. I mean the idea is to progress your Civ to a "winning point" in the game while mitigating all the other factors that try to make you lose. That's the conflict and what makes the game interesting. You've got natural disasters, barbarians, city states, other Civs and myriad other little things all of which the player does not control directly. We can influence some of it. But I think that's the fun. Spies just add another layer to this. It could be argued that the layer doesn't add enough to be worth the trouble, but for the most part I subscribe to the belief that more options, however limited, are usually better.
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Feb 28, 2019 16:50
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I think I’ve found that the better a district is at something, the more likely it is to get spied on. Partisans tend to get recruited from +6 neighborhoods, spaceports are always a target especially if it’s actually launching things... and so on. This theory comes pretty much entirely from my recent game as Mali, where I think I only built one spy and had him counterspy in my most profitable suguba. He killed an enemy spy every like three turns for the entire game, no one ever tried to spy anywhere else. It was crazy and also hilarious that the AI civs were just sending their spies to get killed.
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Feb 28, 2019 16:56
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thanks alot assbag posted:I think I’ve found that the better a district is at something, the more likely it is to get spied on. Partisans tend to get recruited from +6 neighborhoods, spaceports are always a target especially if it’s actually launching things... and so on. I haven't found it's ever mattered that much for neighborhoods, they get partisans anyhow. Maybe it's just because the AI rarely builds them, so a crappy +4 neighborhood I threw up out of desperation is still the most attractive neighborhood in the world. Borsche69 posted:In general I haven't been a big fan of any implementations of espionage. The balance is always thrown way off (in civ4 the amount of visibility spies produce is way too good both on offense or defense for their relatively cheap cost), but at their worst playing with spies against the AI feels like a game of whack-a-mole. In Civ4 and 6, I'm too often feeling like the AI is just randomly exploding improvements and buildings in an attempt to give the player something to do. The lategame has always suffered from a lack of good choices, but their solution is to stuff the lategame with little annoyances that do nothing but occupy the players time. Spies are exploding improvements, natural disasters are exploding improvements, pollution is spreading onto tiles etc, it all feels like busy work since there's no player choice, and the player interaction here is just to clean up the mess. This is why Civ 5's espionage was good, spies were pretty much set-and-forget and the main effect was that science/city-states would slowly trickle away from the runaway leaders.
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Feb 28, 2019 17:00
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Civ 6 has a lot of things that constantly demand your attention for no apparent reason. Like how Declarations of Friendship and Alliances will automatically expire even if both Civs still want it, or obviously the way trade routes work. I'd go so far as to call it a core design philosophy that no mechanic should be fire-and-forget. For better or worse.
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Feb 28, 2019 17:08
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I personally like the spying because it always feels like there’s a choice and a trade-off but holy hell are the religious units a pain in the rear end. I really hope they remove religious units altogether in the next one (except maybe prophets) and find a different system.
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Feb 28, 2019 17:08
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Starks posted:I personally like the spying because it always feels like there’s a choice and a trade-off but holy hell are the religious units a pain in the rear end. I really hope they remove religious units altogether in the next one (except maybe prophets) and find a different system. I'd be ok with this. Maybe make religion operate similarly to culture/loyalty. That would still give lots of utility options and use, without having to buy totally different unit types with a totally different currency.
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Feb 28, 2019 17:12
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I like spies all right. I mostly use them to steal gold and it works pretty well.Clarste posted:Civ 6 has a lot of things that constantly demand your attention for no apparent reason. Like how Declarations of Friendship and Alliances will automatically expire even if both Civs still want it, or obviously the way trade routes work. I'd go so far as to call it a core design philosophy that no mechanic should be fire-and-forget. For better or worse. This has been an issue of mine since Civ 5. In Civ 4 deals like resource trades and open borders would be indefinite until cancelled, and Civ 5 changed all of those things to have a set duration. At least in 5 they'd remind you that they were about to expire and ask you to renew, but I'm not sure why they didn't just keep the Civ 4 system of "this deal keeps going until you actively cancel it". The open borders thing is especially annoying because it can result in your units getting kicked out because you didn't know it was about to expire.
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Feb 28, 2019 17:42
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Speaking of Civ 4, I miss the way workers "worked" in that game. I miss having road spaghetti, different poo poo to build like cottages and forts and what not. It allowed every turn to have "more" to do that could also be meaningful. Workers/Builders are so streamlined now that I imagine in another game or two they'll be gone completely. I know lots of folk don't like the old road spaghetti, but it was neat to see at a glance how much your Civ had changed the land around it. Same reason I love how Alpha Centauri had roads and all kinds of neat little buildings and nodes everywhere criss-crossing your lands. I think the more you can shape/change the land, the better. Civ VI's districts is good at this, but only seeing roads where trade routes go still looks kinda "barren" to me.
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Feb 28, 2019 17:49
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At least in the late game now you can railroad spaghetti your empire with military engineers. No way to automate it though.
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Feb 28, 2019 17:55
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I find manually building railroads on my most important routes very satisfying, and appreciate that addition.
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Feb 28, 2019 17:56
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Is that a new addition? I haven't made it that far in the game since Gathering Storm dropped to see that. If so, I approve! Building roads tile by tile is neat because when you see an entire map covered in roads, you know that poo poo was a real accomplishment.
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Feb 28, 2019 17:59
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chaosapiant posted:I know lots of folk don't like the old road spaghetti, but it was neat to see at a glance how much your Civ had changed the land around it. Same reason I love how Alpha Centauri had roads and all kinds of neat little buildings and nodes everywhere criss-crossing your lands. I think the more you can shape/change the land, the better. Civ VI's districts is good at this, but only seeing roads where trade routes go still looks kinda "barren" to me. It would make sense if all improvements automatically had roads connecting to the nearest city (which would naturally cover the terrain with roads as you develop your cities), but a bunch of road spaghetti in otherwise undeveloped land always felt weird to me.
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Feb 28, 2019 18:00
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Clarste posted:It would make sense if all improvements automatically had roads connecting to the nearest city, but a bunch of roads in otherwise undeveloped land always felt weird to me. Has that ever been the case? Afaik, or remember, even the spaghettiest of roads was just because every road constantly branched off and terminated at a fort or a quarry or other improved tile or resource. I don't recall many roads that went or ended nowhere.
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Feb 28, 2019 18:01
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I like the 'trade routes create roads' idea in theory but in reality I find myself setting up trade routes specifically for the purpose of making roads rather than if they benefit me in any other way.
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Feb 28, 2019 18:02
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I mean, back in Civ 4 and earlier you'd build roads on literally every tile you had access too, because there was no reason not to.
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Feb 28, 2019 18:02
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Clarste posted:I mean, back in Civ 4 and earlier you'd build roads on literally every tile you had access too, because there was no reason not to. Yea, they did speed of movement and if you had nothing else to build, that makes sense. I forgot about that.
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Feb 28, 2019 18:26
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Clarste posted:I mean, back in Civ 4 and earlier you'd build roads on literally every tile you had access too, because there was no reason not to. Unless you played FFH2 and Tasunke rode a thousand horsemen into your capital city out of nowhere using your own roads thanks to the Raiders trait.
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Feb 28, 2019 19:11
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