|
wargames posted:What will this do? If you have a 3840×2160 screen, you could run a 1920×1080 image perfectly crisp, one in game pixel to 4 screen pixels. You'd only really care for performance reasons.
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2019 15:59
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 01:17 |
|
|
wargames posted:What will this do? It will make 1080p -> 4k upscaling not look like a blurry mess, and do it for free. You would think that, since 1080p is exactly 1/4 a 4k screen, you could upscale to 4k simply by having each 1080p pixel double/double into a 2x2 pixel block in 4k. Except, for some dumb reason, neither AMD nor NVidia drivers actually allow this. They run it through one of a variety of algorithms (bicubic, etc), which has the net effect of making everything a bit blurry. The "upside" is that it's less blocky than a straight integer upscale might be, which is probably for the best when you're watching a movie, but there are plenty of games and applications where you don't really want that sort of thing going on. It'd be a fairly trivial add, which I think is a big part of what annoys most people in terms of it not existing. e; It's what people complain about when FTL or other "pixel art" games (or retro games) look like a blurry mess on a high-resolution monitor: where integer scaling would allow them to be upscaled and keep the "blocky goodness," current implementations try to smooth everything out, ruining the effect. DrDork fucked around with this message at 16:08 on Feb 27, 2019 |
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2019 16:00
|
|
|
DrDork posted:It will make 1080p -> 4k upscaling not look like a blurry mess, and do it for free. Yeah, upscaling is not trivial at all, you are essentially showing more information than in the given image, so quality depends on whether you know anything about the original you're going for and can do something about it. A lot of emulators for the NES and such use really convoluted algorithms to make sure a bunch of the pixel art stays nice, and it doesn't always work well, and those are different than, say, trying to upscale nature images.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2019 16:15
|
|
|
Upscaling to arbitrary resolutions is, indeed, non-trivial. Integer scaling, on the other hand, isn't terribly complex by comparison. Yeah, locking it to integer-only multiples seriously restricts the number of resolutions you can actually utilize it on (1080 -> 4k being the most common), but you can expand the usability of it by allowing for padding--effectively letterboxing it to make it fit the actual screen resolution. Nearest-Neighbor isn't exactly ground-breaking science or anything, and has been implemented in the Linux NVidia driver (and DOSBox and a variety of other emulators) for years. The response from AMD/NVidia has generally been "not enough demand signal from you niche weirdos" not "it's too hard."
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2019 16:45
|
|
|
DrDork posted:I'd really like a mobile dGPU I can feel good about buying into for a few years. The mobile dGPU you are looking for is something in 7nm.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2019 17:36
|
|
|
DrDork posted:It will make 1080p -> 4k upscaling not look like a blurry mess, and do it for free. Could this help VR if they have super hires screens in them? Also once another i really like the amd driver team, whole they aren't 100% perfect they have been darn good the past 2-3 years.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2019 18:35
|
|
|
wargames posted:Also once another i really like the amd driver team, whole they aren't 100% perfect they have been darn good the past 2-3 years. At least if you didn't play Overwatch during that embarrassingly long time it was an issue. That said, NVidia's driver team is releasing some real nuggets (of poo poo) lately, if you look at the known issues list with the latest couple of releases.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2019 19:16
|
|
|
wargames posted:Could this help VR if they have super hires screens in them? there's never a 1:1 mapping between rendered pixels and display pixels in vr (they use a curved mapping to counter lens distortion) so a 2:1 mapping wouldn't be any better
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2019 19:21
|
|
|
orcane posted:You know they'll also release a cut-down 1650 that loses half the memory bandwith or something, and shitboxes will use that because it saves 10 bucks But I was thinking along the lines of buying any recent off lease i5 box with a PCI-E slot for $200 and slapping a 1650/1650ti in there and calling it a day. Something cheap and low effort enough for me to get my brothers back on gaming PC’s really. I did that with GT 240’s or 9800gt’s back in the day, but it’s time to get them into something modern.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2019 20:29
|
|
|
orcane posted:You know they'll also release a cut-down 1650 that loses half the memory bandwith or something, and shitboxes will use that because it saves 10 bucks you mean the yet-unannounced GT1630 which already does exist as the announced MX250 (an entire 5% performance over the MX150)
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2019 21:07
|
|
|
The weirdest part of buying a 2080 is the bizarre realization that Divinity 2 has the best graphics I've seen in 4k/60.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2019 22:24
|
|
|
Geemer posted:That said, NVidia's driver team is releasing some real nuggets (of poo poo) lately, if you look at the known issues list with the latest couple of releases. I tried a bunch of stuff to fix it including relaxing RAM timings, disabling CPU overclock, and I even pulled computer apart (taking everything out except for mobo, cpu and psu) to clean/reseat things, then I thought "well the goons are always whinging about nvidia drivers, and I did update them lately", I installed 419.17 and haven't seen one lockup since. I think I'll go back to only updating them when I have a real good reason to.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2019 22:28
|
|
|
Fuzz1111 posted:I think I'll go back to only updating them when I have a real good reason to. I've been on this mindset for a loooooong time, which is why I'm still on 397.93 and haven't had issues. But I might have to update to get those security updates that were included in the recent version.
|
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2019 23:12
|
|
|
DrDork posted:locking it to integer-only multiples seriously restricts the number of resolutions you can actually utilize it on (1080 -> 4k being the most common) This isn’t always true. Take 5120x2880 panels for instance. You can display content at quite a few standard resolutions e.g. 1440p 960p 720p 576p 480p 320p 288p 240p Gaming on a 5k iMac will actually viable now IMO. KingEup fucked around with this message at 23:49 on Feb 27, 2019 |
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2019 23:46
|
|
|
$280 Vega 56 is back: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814137263 e: lol already gone Cygni fucked around with this message at 01:11 on Feb 28, 2019 |
|
#
?
Feb 27, 2019 23:57
|
|
|
Cygni posted:$280 Vega 56 is back: vega56 around the 280-320 mark and 3 free games is a great deal same with 1070/ti
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2019 01:53
|
|
|
My $280 Vega 56 came today and it is loud. Not distractingly loud like intel cpu fan coolers but noticeable over my gtx 970. Wattman is mind boggling coming from nvidia drivers though. All the sliders....
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2019 04:20
|
|
|
DrDork posted:Upscaling to arbitrary resolutions is, indeed, non-trivial. Integer scaling, on the other hand, isn't terribly complex by comparison. Yeah, locking it to integer-only multiples seriously restricts the number of resolutions you can actually utilize it on (1080 -> 4k being the most common), but you can expand the usability of it by allowing for padding--effectively letterboxing it to make it fit the actual screen resolution. The upscaling I'm talking about is integer. It's still non-trivial to have it not seem pixelated or keep it pixelated in the same way. See this discussion for example.
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2019 06:06
|
|
|
Reality posted:My $280 Vega 56 came today and it is loud. Not distractingly loud like intel cpu fan coolers but noticeable over my gtx 970. Is that the red dragon vega56 or blower style?
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2019 13:30
|
|
|
wargames posted:Is that the red dragon vega56 or blower style? They are blower cards.
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2019 15:51
|
|
|
Don Lapre posted:They are blower cards. So we are going to see alot of aftermarket coolers/watercooling solutions then. Because the red dragon one doesn't need it because fanless mode is best mode.
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2019 17:38
|
|
|
So yeah, even though patched Metro Exodus DLSS is better than before: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKaifAffhZw Surprise, surprise, it just isn't anything special compared to basic upscaling, and basic upscaling with a slight sharpening filter is just flat out superior in both performance and image quality. vv I'm just tempering expectations, there are some people that seem to think DLSS is somehow magic. I actually had high hopes for it, too HalloKitty fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Feb 28, 2019 |
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2019 19:00
|
|
|
HalloKitty posted:So yeah, even though patched Metro Exodus DLSS is better than before: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKaifAffhZw surprise surprise brand new tech needs time to stretch its legs before it can run smoothly i dont even have an RTX card and probably wont until next gen but like, cmon lol
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2019 19:14
|
|
|
Well I was actually within a stones throw of Frys as it opened today, and was able to actually grab a coupon on a day they also had GPU's in stock. So am EVGA 2080 XC Ultra for ~$690 after tax with a $20 rebate on top of that isn't too bad right? About the same price as my 980Ti back in 2016 when I had to grab it for VR sake. They were out of the $550 MSI 2080's unfortunately. Now does anyone want a good deal on an ASUS ROG Strix 980Ti?
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2019 20:24
|
|
|
Statutory Ape posted:surprise surprise brand new tech needs time to stretch its legs before it can run smoothly If you dedicate a bunch of hardware to a specific feature that only works in a few games, it would be nice if it was actually at least a little bit better than the simple algorithms it's supposed to be replacing, 6 months on. That said, why would you release a 1080p video comparing visual fidelity of 4k DLSS vs upscaling + sharpening?  E: Most of HU's other videos are 4k, so it's probably just still encoding... Stickman fucked around with this message at 22:00 on Feb 28, 2019 |
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2019 20:32
|
|
|
Stickman posted:That said, why would you release a 1080p video comparing visual fidelity of 4k DLSS vs upscaling + sharpening? That and compressed video means it's going to be harder to tell a difference between game settings anyway.
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2019 20:49
|
|
|
EdEddnEddy posted:Well I was actually within a stones throw of Frys as it opened today, and was able to actually grab a coupon on a day they also had GPU's in stock. i think you got a decent deal on a powerful card
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2019 21:00
|
|
|
It's definitely a good deal - that's as cheap as the cheapest 2080s online, and the Ultra is a decent cooling/OC boost over the baseline models.
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2019 21:02
|
|
|
I struggle to see much difference between RT on or off in Metro when actually playing. I mean besides the fairly significant fps hit. Though I currently am not running DLSS either since it's screwed up on ultra wide resolutions so I'm interested in trying it again when they fix that. I am still pretty happy with my 2080 upgrade. I got an OC one on sale for $660 ish with a couple free games and it's a significant upgrade over my 1070. I imagine I'd be less happy if I had a 1070 ti / 1080/ 1080 ti where the performance difference wouldn't be so noticeable.
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2019 21:45
|
|
|
Inept posted:That and compressed video means it's going to be harder to tell a difference between game settings anyway. I agree, which is why it's better to trust in the conclusions drawn by the video as opposed to purely relying on the compressed YouTube feed
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2019 21:57
|
|
|
Geemer posted:I've been on this mindset for a loooooong time, which is why I'm still on 397.93 and haven't had issues. But I might have to update to get those security updates that were included in the recent version. This is why i'm still on nvidia drivers v388.71 and windows 10 version 1709. I remember when monster hunter world came out. So many people had problems but I didn't, it was all due to the drivers. I won't upgrade until I see a reason too, like a game I care about really hurting in performance or something.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2019 00:32
|
|
|
Absurd Alhazred posted:The upscaling I'm talking about is integer. It's still non-trivial to have it not seem pixelated or keep it pixelated in the same way. See this discussion for example. when nerds refer to integer scaling they're talking about the trivial case of integer nearest neighbour, explicitly without any of the smoothing algos you linked to, e.g., http://tanalin.com/en/articles/lossless-scaling/ this is exactly the confusion being fought by the petitioning: "but it's super complex to blend the colours because otherwise it'll look really jaggy" yes the jagginess is the point thank you "but surely nobody wants that why would anyone want that"
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2019 05:49
|
|
|
ronya posted:when nerds refer to integer scaling they're talking about the trivial case of integer nearest neighbour, explicitly without any of the smoothing algos you linked to, e.g., http://tanalin.com/en/articles/lossless-scaling/ Is just plain upsampling using a nearest-neighbor texture sample that big of a performance hit, if that's what you really want?
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2019 05:53
|
|
|
sprites, not textures. The blurring is most obvious on UI elements with contrasting borders, like crosshairs either way, that would be in the hands of developers rather than end users, though
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2019 06:13
|
|
|
ronya posted:sprites, not textures. The blurring is most obvious on UI elements with contrasting borders, like crosshairs Sprites are just textures sampled to screen-facing quads under orthographic projection these days.  I guess blitting would do the same work, too, but I think it uses pretty much the same hardware units behind the scenes.
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2019 06:14
|
|
|
Absurd Alhazred posted:Sprites are just textures sampled to screen-facing quads under orthographic projection these days. There are plenty of options for devs to include various scaling techniques, but the point of putting it in the control panel is to allow the end user to choose the upscaling algorithm. Bilinear upscaling can cause some serious blurring/artifacts even at distances where nearest-neighbor pixelization might not be apparent, especially in games with pixel art. It's an easy add, and good to give end-users options (doubly-so if they can be set per-game).
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2019 06:43
|
|
|
again it's not about options available to developers for scaling individual objects, but about controlling upscaling behaviour for the whole screen elements on the screen which are not functionally raster sprites (e..g text) would all be jaggy, but that would be acceptable losses I think the entire demand for it stems from the particular market conditions where 4k monitors are cheap enough for people to be buying one to surf the internet, but without a GPU able to drive games at 4k ronya fucked around with this message at 07:07 on Mar 1, 2019 |
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2019 06:44
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2019 07:04
|
|
|
You just cant post that and not link the thread from which it came!
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2019 08:01
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 01:17 |
|
|
Not having that image be a url as well is heresy
|
|
#
?
Mar 1, 2019 08:02
|
|
