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RIP Syndrome posted:It was actually a reference to the fact that I regarded your comment as doing just that I think the trains on schedule comment is kind of old, I've seen it a lot (though usually it's not directed at me) and it's often used as a way to kill discussion. With hindsight, I think the misunderstanding is that you were not trying to do that, but it's not always easy to tell. RIP Syndrome posted:I agree, and I think my original statement was unclear: People whose basic needs aren't met don't have the luxury of caring about nice words like democracy, or even being able to inform themselves and going to the urns to choose between brand A and brand B. It's natural to worry about things further down the Maslow pyramid first. Cf. correlation between income level and voting rate. I will add, though, that the "basic needs" of a citizen are met differently depending on the citizen. I'd rate not being murdered as pretty low on the hierarchy of needs, so the purging of dissidents and suppression of opposition to the party in power is still a subject that IMO needs to be addressed even if not everyone is getting fed. RIP Syndrome posted:I was uncertain whether to mention CO2 in the post because it sounds kind of superficial and selfish, but as another poster mentioned, I think it's interesting to think about what future societies would look like under a restricted CO2 regime (here's where you hear a lot of people go "aaaah, collapse!!!"), and Cuba has had relatively low emissions for a long time and their society hasn't collapsed. Cutting back on unsustainable resource usage will always mean hardship for people who are accustomed to a wasteful way of living. It doesn't have to mean a decrease in long-term quality of life, though. I will admit I'm interested to see how private companies operate in Cuba under (hopefully) strict oversight on CO2 production and worker rights, though. Most countries approach social democracy from more laissez-faire capitalism. It will be edifying to see if the approach from actual socialism will be different. RIP Syndrome posted:Thanks for getting this back on track, btw. I think we're on the same side? We're the good guys Of course. I didn't really want to yank up the LatAm thread, either, I normally just lurk and try to learn about the continent from local perspectives. I just felt it was a broadly applicable comparison, so I perhaps overstepped my bounds.
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# ? Feb 27, 2019 18:12 |
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# ? Jun 5, 2024 04:17 |
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Azran posted:IIRC Cuba also has a problem with colorism, just like the rest of Latin America (when it's not just straight out racism). It's just that Fidel said Cuba was free of racism a while ago so you better not be going around spewing lies!!! Yes, Cuba has a problem with colorim, but when I was there there were no issues discussing it. The idea of Cuba as some sort of caricature of North Korean style authoritarianism doesn't really hold. Not that this excuses the colorism, but it is certainly better there than in Brazil. In fact, given that colorism is getting worse because of white ex-pats in the US sending remittances back to Cuba to relatives, there's even a bit of an incentive for the government to discuss it in those terms.
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# ? Feb 27, 2019 18:22 |
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There is no internet in Cuba IIRC.Saladman posted:Have you been to Cuba? It’s okay but calling it a bastion of human development is ehhhh. Like yeah it’s better than most of Latin America (and way better than Latin America for the poorest like ~10-30% of the population) but it’s uh, not exactly Finland or even Greece. Just because the US media paints it as some hellhole everyone wants to escape (it’s not) it’s also not some tropical socialist paradise. Great post, thanks for sharing. I've heard that most Cubans are actually black, but Cuba doesn't do a census so noone knows. Cicero posted:IIRC Cuba already allows small businesses in a limited form, they've taken a few baby steps towards allowing entrepreneurship/capitalism, so they're not fully socialist anymore, and the new constitution looks like further incremental steps in that direction. They were working on cooperatives. Not sure how that is working.
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# ? Feb 27, 2019 18:33 |
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There is Internet in Cuba, it's just a public network you need to buy cards for. Polygon did a fascinating look at gaming culture there that touches on how people work around these things to consume gaming media there. I'm on mobile, otherwise I'd link it.
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# ? Feb 27, 2019 18:52 |
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One of these? https://www.polygon.com/2017/5/15/15625636/cuba-video-games https://www.polygon.com/features/2017/5/15/15626036/cuba-game-piracy Internet and gaming are one of those "genie out of the bottle" things. You can't un-invent them. Anywhere you are, people who know about them will want to use them.
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# ? Feb 27, 2019 19:39 |
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According to a Cuban friend, he grew up on Brazilian soap operas which is extremely funny to me
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# ? Feb 27, 2019 20:00 |
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Cup Runneth Over posted:Fair enough. It's probably more common in LatAm, where there's been a lot of military dictatorships. I apologize for being flippant in response to a long and thorough post; it didn't occur to me that it might be interpreted as hostile. Turns out I'm the humorless one. Sorry for the hair-trigger response and for being obnoxious to you. Case closed! Snipped the rest of your post because it's good and I have nothing to add.
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# ? Feb 27, 2019 20:11 |
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I wonder what Cuban anime is like?
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# ? Feb 27, 2019 20:34 |
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punk rebel ecks posted:I wonder what Cuban anime is like? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AloKVWhkp80
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# ? Feb 27, 2019 20:44 |
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Cup Runneth Over posted:One of these? Yeah, it's a series, ten articles in total IIRC. Drew Scanlon of internet meme fame (also Giant Bomb) did a video on their jury-rigged gaming network too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEplzHraw3c&hd=1 I'll say one thing, as a Brazilian who's been mugged twice I'm mad envious of people chilling on a park after dark using their laptops.
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# ? Feb 27, 2019 20:49 |
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Mozi posted:Cuba, if nothing else, shows that if humanity could make its way without unfettered access to all the luxuries of the modern world, which would be necessary for the developed world to really reduce our emissions. Quoted for truth. Hell, we could probably have a fair bit more than Cuba if it came to it.
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# ? Feb 28, 2019 00:11 |
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Cuba has been loosening internet restrictions recently. For example, as of December 2018, Cubans have access to the same internet access over cell phone networks that tourists have had for a while now, where before they were supposed to be using certain official WiFi hotspots. A few specific sites are blocked but they can use like Twitter etc. At roughly the same time, they also relaxed the home computer internet access restrictions to the same almost entirely clear status as the cell phones can now offer. Now granted, the prices charged for these services are not cheap compared to the average Cuban's wages, so it's not like they can all use the internet as much as they want, but it's a radically different situation from just the beginning of 2017. So like, those neat articles and videos on the ad-hoc and restricted alternatives Cubans were using up til recently are now things that only apply to the poor, instead of applying to all Cubans. And future changes in the prices offered by the government will probably make things more affordable and reduce the need for those alternate networks even further.
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# ? Feb 28, 2019 02:33 |
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joepinetree posted:Yes, Cuba has a problem with colorim, but when I was there there were no issues discussing it. The idea of Cuba as some sort of caricature of North Korean style authoritarianism doesn't really hold. Not that this excuses the colorism, but it is certainly better there than in Brazil. In fact, given that colorism is getting worse because of white ex-pats in the US sending remittances back to Cuba to relatives, there's even a bit of an incentive for the government to discuss it in those terms. I wasn't aiming for a North Korea comparison, I am ashamed to admit I've done much more reading on NK than Cuba I remember reading an article on the topic from two or so years ago, maybe The Atlantic? Can't recall. I was thinking more "Armeninan Genocide in Turkey" where the state just strongly disapproves of the topic/likes to pretend it doesn't exist. Glad to see it isn't as grim then.
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# ? Feb 28, 2019 04:36 |
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fishmech posted:Cuba has been loosening internet restrictions recently. For example, as of December 2018, Cubans have access to the same internet access over cell phone networks that tourists have had for a while now, where before they were supposed to be using certain official WiFi hotspots. A few specific sites are blocked but they can use like Twitter etc. At roughly the same time, they also relaxed the home computer internet access restrictions to the same almost entirely clear status as the cell phones can now offer. Wow, so pretty soon we'll have Cuban goons.
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# ? Feb 28, 2019 05:21 |
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So this is a thing that happened https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbeIynzfVzo edit: also Cup Runneth Over sorry for flipping you off earlier, I just hate the "read history" aka "educate yourself" retort because it means nothing, you can read a history book written by some ideologue and "educate" yourself solely through youtube hacks bagual fucked around with this message at 22:27 on Feb 28, 2019 |
# ? Feb 28, 2019 22:21 |
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bagual posted:So this is a thing that happened What totally nuts statement did he make? bagual posted:edit: also Cup Runneth Over sorry for flipping you off earlier, I just hate the "read history" aka "educate yourself" retort because it means nothing, you can read a history book written by some ideologue and "educate" yourself solely through youtube hacks Jordan Peterson taught me everything I needed to know about western history and philosophy! He was named as the most significant modern thinker in several publications you know!
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# ? Mar 1, 2019 08:41 |
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bagual posted:edit: also Cup Runneth Over sorry for flipping you off earlier, I just hate the "read history" aka "educate yourself" retort because it means nothing, you can read a history book written by some ideologue and "educate" yourself solely through youtube hacks Obviously, it was a vacuous retort in response to a vacuous assertion.
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# ? Mar 1, 2019 14:04 |
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Munin posted:What totally nuts statement did he make? During Itaipu Dam's new management inauguration ceremony he homaged Alfredo Stroessner, dictator of Paraguay 1954-1989 and literal child rapist Called Stroessner a "great statesman" for cooperating with the brazilian dictatorship during the dam's construction. The whole project had numerous worker deaths and a massive corruption scheme that got brazilian ambassador José Jobim killed, or rather "suicided", in the cover-up. Literally kidnapped from his car and "found" hanging, his death was only ruled a murder in 2018 by the National Truth Comission. The Paraguayan government, run by Stroessner's own Partido Colorado since the flash impeachment of left-wing president Fernando Lugo in 2012, said they "respect (bolso's) opinions", "the dialogue has been positive" and that both countries share a "key relation" Cup Runneth Over posted:Obviously, it was a vacuous retort in response to a vacuous assertion. I'd rather call out vacuous assertions than pay in kind, each to their own I guess. I just get into Cuba debates on a hair trigger since people around here slam Cuba over human rights abuses while asking for more extrajudicial police killings at home on the same breath.
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# ? Mar 1, 2019 16:16 |
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bagual posted:During Itaipu Dam's new management inauguration ceremony he homaged Alfredo Stroessner, dictator of Paraguay 1954-1989 and literal child rapist Not that he's much different but that's a pic of Pinochet (even though it's a Paraguayan stamp). This is Stroessner:
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# ? Mar 1, 2019 16:36 |
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Negrostrike posted:Not that he's much different but that's a pic of Pinochet (even though it's a Paraguayan stamp). Haha oh poo poo I just googled Stroessner and grabbed a random pic, didn't even notice it. Latin American dictators all came from the Mengele clone factory apparently.
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# ? Mar 1, 2019 16:41 |
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bagual posted:Latin American dictators all came from the Mengele clone factory apparently. In Argentina!
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# ? Mar 1, 2019 16:48 |
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Cup Runneth Over posted:In Argentina! Calafate is really nice this time of year... the Perito Moreno and Viedma glaciers are beautiful, the lamb is great, the Hitler clone factory is always so interesting to visit...
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# ? Mar 1, 2019 17:14 |
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Yeah what was Peron smoking letting all those Nazi exiles in?
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# ? Mar 1, 2019 17:22 |
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Why did Latin America like Nazis so much?
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# ? Mar 1, 2019 17:28 |
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I guess white (or light-skinned) elites on latin-american countries often consider themselves a superior kind because it justifies their privileged position. And that goes well with nazism Its funny because for european/north-american nazis we usually are all "latin", an inferior race that they despise
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# ? Mar 1, 2019 17:37 |
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punk rebel ecks posted:Why did Latin America like Nazis so much? The place was blanketed with dictators keen on 1-) taking a strong stance against the commies (keep in mind that back then, jew and communist were interchangeable words for most people) 2-) Boosting quality of life and industrialization for the -right- layers of society, and 3-)thumbing their nose at the usual US-UK familiar imperial powers that controlled whatever industry existed and made those same dictators feel like errand boys instead of proud, independent caudillos. So yeah, it's no surprise that several places liked the nazis. It's easy to forget now that for almost two decades, it seemed to be the wave of the moment. Brazil was always going to fall on the US side of the equation, out of pure practical concerns, so it just played hard-to-get and got some industry concessions from the allies ("our overlords let us have a steel industry now, yaaay!"), though they did send some foreign dissidents to die in german gas chambers. The data I get from Argentina is a bit more mixed, as apparently many of the inner circle really thought that the country could be a key player in a possible Axis victory.
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# ? Mar 1, 2019 17:38 |
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punk rebel ecks posted:Why did Latin America like Nazis so much? Why do settler colonial nations with large self-identified white populations and a legacy of slavery love fascists? 🤔🤔🤔
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# ? Mar 1, 2019 17:43 |
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quote:I just get into Cuba debates on a hair trigger since people around here slam Cuba over human rights abuses while asking for more extrajudicial police killings at home on the same breath. I feel the same way; also too used to seeing retorts of the "So you claim to be on the side of the people while giving less than 100% support to Democracy™? How curious!" kind not aiming for a productive discussion, which (demonstrably) can make me respond unproductively when all I've received is a friendly poke in the ribs As an exercise in esprit d'escalier -- a better response would've been a very questionable quote from one of Mussolini's (and Adolf Eichmann's) more respected contemporaries: "If there can be a few of reasonable merit at the top, I do not so much mind what happens at the bottom." I'm not a brain genius by any means, nor am I here to convince anyone that I am, but I do read. Anyway. Some fodder for the LatAm thread: https://www.sinembargo.mx/22-02-2019/3540268 quote:El día 10 de febrero durante su visita al estado de Morelos, López Obrador se refirió a los opositores –la mayoría pueblos nahuas de la región– como “radicales de izquierda” y “conservadores”. Asimismo, aseveró que “aunque hubiera gritos y sombrerazos” se realizaría la votación los días 23 y 24 de febrero. Obrador calling people opposing a gas pipeline radical leftists, and then a few days later their leader was murdered. One of six activists killed so far this year. I still think Obrador was the least bad of the candidates, but hoping they can do more to prevent that and maybe also get unstuck from the Pemex era...
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# ? Mar 1, 2019 18:13 |
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Cup Runneth Over posted:In Argentina! Mengele (or rather, his grave) was actually found in Brazil in 1985 thanks to german intelligence intercepting a letter to his family telling them of his death. He died an old man, having a stroke while swimming in a São Paulo beach in 1979 under the name Wolfgang Gerhard. The real part is that there's a town in Brazil with an anomalous number of twins versus normal population, where he apparently worked as a doctor for some time. punk rebel ecks posted:Why did Latin America like Nazis so much? It's more that the nazis liked Latin America's huge german diaspora where they could easily lay low. German immigrants were not very assimilated into local culture, in some towns people spoke german exclusively, and the "Germany Stronk" message really resonated with a community that viewed itself as persecuted. A friend of mine told me his great-grandmother was a poor rural german immigrant worker, and her community gathered around the only radio in town to hear the news. The owner of said radio was a massive nazi and forced everyone to sieg heil and sing deutschland uber alles before they were allowed to turn the radio on.
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# ? Mar 1, 2019 18:17 |
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RIP Syndrome posted:I still think Obrador was the least bad of the candidates, but hoping they can do more to prevent that and maybe also get unstuck from the Pemex era... I mean, AMLO's betting Mexico's future on saving Pemex and they have already stopped plans of expanding the use of Eolic Energy in the country.
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# ? Mar 1, 2019 21:02 |
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It kills the birds, you see
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# ? Mar 1, 2019 21:08 |
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Today's NYT hit piece on AMLO https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/01/world/americas/mexico-migration-trump.html quote:Mexico Is Carrying Out Trump’s Agenda Along Much of the Border In true American liberal fashion, the goodness or badness of the foreign society is purely a function of how it reflects America, and literally nothing else icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 23:11 on Mar 1, 2019 |
# ? Mar 1, 2019 23:07 |
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Hard to believe that a half-German, half-Paraguayan dictator named Strößner hid Nazis from the Allies e: I mean I can’t speak for the rest of South America (though they doubtless had their own fascist problems) but Paraguay doesn’t surprise me Venomous fucked around with this message at 09:49 on Mar 2, 2019 |
# ? Mar 2, 2019 09:44 |
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Venomous posted:I mean I can’t speak for the rest of South America (though they doubtless had their own fascist problems) If you want to read about a horrifying Chilean case, there is Colonia Dignidad which had its fair share of nazis pass through, including Mengele and Walter Rauff
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# ? Mar 2, 2019 17:38 |
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And now AMLO questions IATA's professionalism over their criticism at his administration plans to solve the air traffic issues on Mexico City.quote:Their recommendations are being considered, listened, but the decision about Santa Lucia's airport is already taken (...) although at times those organizations aren't very proffessional https://expansion.mx/economia/2019/03/04/amlo-cuestiona-profesionalismo-de-la-iata In Mexican lingo, that means "I don't care what you guys say, I'm going to do whatever I want".
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# ? Mar 4, 2019 20:17 |
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This deserves a crosspost from the Brazil thread, gently caress it. Kinda https://twitter.com/jairbolsonaro/status/1103069837876711425 https://twitter.com/jairbolsonaro/status/1103270588850806787
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# ? Mar 6, 2019 14:33 |
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You Yankees took so long to deliver the Piss Tape, someone had to step up and deliver the goods! Honestly, watching Bolsominions simultaneously argue that 1- They are the fun loving non-PC guys and 2- Carnival is hosed up and people should just pipe down is breaking my loving brain.
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# ? Mar 6, 2019 14:40 |
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Pee is stored in the bolsos. Also the bolsominion thing makes complete sense. They're conservative elitists after all and Carnaval is a celebration of popular culture, aka "the poors' stuff". The politically incorrect stuff they defend isn't debauchery, they actually abhor that and it's what Carnaval is in their minds, a bunch of marginalized people being lewd and noisy to the sound of bad music.
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# ? Mar 6, 2019 15:11 |
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Yeah, seen under that lens it's actually simple, even beyond the "Me serially cheating on my wife is just me being cool and free, that ho over there wearing a short skirt is moral degeneracy begging for a rape" garden variety hipocrisy. Also, wth, there's a Brazil thread?
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# ? Mar 6, 2019 16:56 |
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# ? Jun 5, 2024 04:17 |
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Sephyr posted:Yeah, seen under that lens it's actually simple, even beyond the "Me serially cheating on my wife is just me being cool and free, that ho over there wearing a short skirt is moral degeneracy begging for a rape" garden variety hipocrisy. It's on C-SPAM.
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# ? Mar 6, 2019 17:19 |