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HGH posted:Don't you mean it's the guy with the SLink where he straights up confesses to you cause you too are a murder weirdo? They threw it in because Adachi is popular. E: Hell thats largely why Goro Akechi exists, he’s a cash-in on that TheKingofSprings fucked around with this message at 17:45 on Feb 28, 2019 |
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Feb 28, 2019 17:43
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The Adachi S. Link just makes it way more obvious tbh. Though I never really cared because the mystery was never actually the point or the interesting part of Persona 4.
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Feb 28, 2019 17:55
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Doc M posted:Sudou. Suou is the protagonist  I guess I just hate Tatsuya for EP or something.
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Feb 28, 2019 18:10
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Maybe it's because I stay far away from discussion about story-heavy games that I'm playing, or maybe I'm just a dumbass, but I didn't consider Adachi suspicious until very late. In a game full of tropey writing (e.g. the goddamn summer camp), I thought he was just your typical bumbling assistant, there to remind you what the plot was after you've been out of dungeons for several hours of playtime. To take one character out of the lot and say "aha! He was deliberately pretending to be walking trope!" just got a shrug from me since he was blending in with everyone else. Unless you all just mean suddenly getting an in-game chance to think about it and then a two-minute process of elimination, then yeah. Then something something Izanagi did the fog for reasons?? I don't even remember. I liked P5's endgame better, although I felt like it drops "everyone with a palace was an escapee from sheeple prison" on you and never addresses the implications of that.
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Mar 1, 2019 03:49
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TheKingofSprings posted:They threw it in because Adachi is popular. akechi's a commentary on the vicious cycle of societal neglect and japan's particularly cruel treatment of orphans that the writers got bored of halfway through
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Mar 1, 2019 03:56
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Cleretic posted:The best comparison I can make is to Fallout 3 or 4, where the starting section deliberately does very little to prepare you for the nature of the world outside of it. But even then I feel like SMTIV does it better; Mikado's elaborate enough that you can reasonably believe that it's going to be the center of everything, and then you actually hit Tokyo and are struck by what the game's really gonna be like. The vibrancy of the setting goes a long way towards making it feel like it could be lived in, too. Yeah, I literally knew nothing about SMT games in general when I bought SMTIV because I just happened to waltz into a Game Stop when it first released and the employee convinced me to buy the game. The reveal was really cool, with more and more build up. I knew something was up, but still getting past Minotaur and seeing what lies below is one of my top SMT moments in general. I remember having my breath taken in by Tokyo, particularly with the beautiful world map music. It also helped that I didn't have internet at that time (due to family financial difficulties), and it was my high school summer vacation, so I very much appreciated the game.
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Mar 1, 2019 04:21
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sorry if this has been answered a lot, but i've fallen of SMT for a good while. is the Strange Journey remake chill enough that I can play it if I didn't have the time or energy to really get into original SJ?. i kinda just wanna hang out with an smt game again, get my feet wet againOxxidation posted:akechi's a commentary on the vicious cycle of societal neglect and japan's particularly cruel treatment of orphans that the writers got bored of halfway through which is really a shame because it absolutely doesn't matter that it's obvious goro's the traitor, he's a fun character that's fun to use in battle and he actually has chemistry with other people. adachi is just the writers learning what a Foil was 90% through the script, it confounds me how popular he got. adachi sucks so much
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Mar 1, 2019 04:36
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Loki is my favorite Persona design in 5 so I'm totally up for the Save Goro route in P5R just to actually use him instead of Robin Hood.
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Mar 1, 2019 04:45
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Funky Valentine posted:Loki is my favorite Persona design in 5 so I'm totally up for the Save Goro route in P5R just to actually use him instead of Robin Hood. Anything but that. There is interesting stuff to do with Goro and to help expand him as a character, but part of what defines him is the irreversible damage he has done to a lot of innocent people as he flailed about in his struggle to both break and move up in the system that hosed him over. Like I am fine with him living but that still very much involves him facing him some serious prison time.
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Mar 1, 2019 04:56
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everyone was fine to let the murderer and attempted rapist who had zero pathos come dance and fight
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Mar 1, 2019 04:58
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No idea about the dancing situation but in the fighting game he explicitly is dragged out of jail due to the villain and at the end of the game he goes right back to jail.
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Mar 1, 2019 05:01
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The dancing game was just DLC, I don't think there was any attempt at an explanation.
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Mar 1, 2019 05:04
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Expect My Mom posted:everyone was fine to let the murderer and attempted rapist who had zero pathos come dance and fight Sure, but it's non-canon and he's always going back to prison right after. It's a little weird to me to hate Adachi but love Akechi when he's basically a rehash of a lot of what made Adachi who he was as a character. E: If anything Akechi is more gross to me as a character than Adachi, because the story never really tries to paint Adachi as anything less than a vile murder rapist once he's revealed in the original game, Akechi gets a disproportionate amount of undeserved sympathy from people whose lives he absolutely destroyed because he saved them one time so clearly he's got good in him, and in terms of design and concept he's Adachi but younger so women can more easily insert him into hot gay evil sex with Joker. It's intentionally manipulative and gross where, for how hosed it is that it happened with Adachi, that was never the intent. TheKingofSprings fucked around with this message at 05:16 on Mar 1, 2019 |
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Mar 1, 2019 05:07
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the Non-Canon excuse makes it worse honestly. it says they don't care about what this character's action were, as long as they can use him to fit their needs.TheKingofSprings posted:Akechi gets a disproportionate amount of undeserved sympathy from people whose lives he absolutely destroyed because he saved them one time so clearly he's got good in him saying that everyone likes goro is a fujoshi is some real loving galaxy brain stuff too. people like goro are who the phantom thieves exist to save and the game just forgets him. it's practically a slap in the face for anyone playing who was abused and has hurt others because of that. "Society's ills need to be stopped, but if they've corrupted you at a young age, death is the only way for you to find peace" it's absolutely reasonable that people want to see him around and get some therapy. Expect My Mom fucked around with this message at 05:22 on Mar 1, 2019 |
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Mar 1, 2019 05:20
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I like Adachi, dude gives a big melodramatic speech about how actually the world wronged him and is responsible for his crimes and then the cast mercilessly dunks on him and tells him his rationalizations of his bullshit are just excusesExpect My Mom posted:the Non-Canon excuse makes it worse honestly. it says they don't care about what this character's action were, as long as they can use him to fit their needs. Akechi murdered two of the main casts' parents
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Mar 1, 2019 05:21
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Expect My Mom posted:the Non-Canon excuse makes it worse honestly. it says they don't care about what this character's action were, as long as they can use him to fit their needs. I'm not saying everyone that likes Goro is a fujoshi but I'm certainly saying that's a big demographic he's aimed at. Goro is simultaneously a victim and another perpetrator (and next to Shido the foremost perpetrator) who directly carried out a lot of killings and enabled many terrible things to happen that simply would not had he made a different choice. He could certainly live in a different version of the game's events, but there's also literally no way to stop him from going "oh boy here I go killing again" at any time and that is a big problem if you want to write characters that are sane and therefore would be aware of that. A scenario where he just goes on as part of the gang would be immensely hosed up.
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Mar 1, 2019 05:27
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i've started a million Goro Dicussions to last me a lifetime, but haru's dad was literally selling her off so honestly? ty goro even her and futaba are like "aaaah poo poo bro, that sucks for you" like they explicitly say they don't forgive him but understand and sympathize. and then the game goes Some Crimes Can Never Be Forgiven e: i dunno if that's true, like goro does the cliche "Would Things Have Different.....If We Met Sooner" so he sees himself as capable of change at some point. if anything just offing him is the easy way out. I absoutely dont trust Persona 5 Scarlet to do this so you're right here, but having Goro have to live with his actions and go forward beyond "Forever Jail" could be interesting. Expect My Mom fucked around with this message at 05:30 on Mar 1, 2019 |
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Mar 1, 2019 05:27
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Fullmetal alchemist taught me that genocide is forgivable as long as you're cute
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Mar 1, 2019 05:28
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There is maybe a conceivable route in an alternate universe where they do save Goro and he hides out in the coffee shop owned by the guy whose friend he murdered and adopted daughter he traumatized until they change Shido's heart but gently caress me if I can figure out how you write the cast not being absolutely terrified out of their minds about the idea that he goes and messes around in any of their heads. It's probably a lot more interesting than what they actually did but I don't think they're ever going to do something like that again because these games don't take risks like that.
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Mar 1, 2019 05:32
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TheKingofSprings posted:E: If anything Akechi is more gross to me as a character than Adachi, because the story never really tries to paint Adachi as anything less than a vile murder rapist once he's revealed in the original game, Akechi gets a disproportionate amount of undeserved sympathy from people whose lives he absolutely destroyed because he saved them one time so clearly he's got good in him, and in terms of design and concept he's Adachi but younger so women can more easily insert him into hot gay evil sex with Joker. It's intentionally manipulative and gross where, for how hosed it is that it happened with Adachi, that was never the intent. Adachi has absolutely been expanded upon in the last 10 years to be a much more understandable and sympathetic character. In the same ways that Goro is a monstrous person, but has sympathetic qualities. Neither character is written in such a way that either game asks you to pardon or even not condemn what they've done or the people they've become, but they absolutely do allow for you to see humanity and compassion in them though their paths may have led them to being disgusting people.
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Mar 1, 2019 05:32
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Expect My Mom posted:i've started a million Goro Dicussions to last me a lifetime, but haru's dad was literally selling her off so honestly? ty goro The issue is that the "understanding" is really forced and unearned. Haru repeatedly displays that her father's death hurt her, and that's not even getting into how badly Wakaba's death hosed up Futaba. The Futaba thing is really the tipping point, honestly. Our greatest window into the pain and agony Akechi is causing, including the cutscenes of the train accident and the principal's death, is Futaba's reclusiveness and trauma. Attempting to "redeem" a character who caused so much pain with so little time and effort just isn't going to work.
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Mar 1, 2019 05:33
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My favorite moment of Persona 5 was Akechi sacrificing himself and barely a word is said about him afterwards. I was counting down the days until he betrayed me once Sai's dungeon started, and I felt no sympathy for him despite his father complex. I'll complain about Adachi being an obvious villain but at least he was somewhat entertaining with his ranting.
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Mar 1, 2019 05:33
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It just still super bothers me that Persona 5 goes for a systemic and generational abuse story, that from birth, the world will grind you down, that some people practically never had a chance, and then ends that story with suicide. that's all
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Mar 1, 2019 05:33
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Expect My Mom posted:i've started a million Goro Dicussions to last me a lifetime, but haru's dad was literally selling her off so honestly? ty goro Do you remember the start of the game where a train driver plowed into a crowded platform, killing and horrifyingly injuring countless people all for the purpose of assassinating two politicians? That is the type of poo poo Goro has been doing whilst working for his father. Yes he has a tragic backstory but at a certain point where that just doesn't cut it anymore and he needs to face serious consequences for everything that he has done.
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Mar 1, 2019 05:35
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I'm not arguing that Persona 5 is ultimately on Akechi's side or anything, it's just clear that they left themselves an out there and also it's weird how Futaba and Haru's emotions aren't really major factors in that regard.
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Mar 1, 2019 05:36
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Arist posted:The issue is that the "understanding" is really forced and unearned. Haru repeatedly displays that her father's death hurt her, and that's not even getting into how badly Wakaba's death hosed up Futaba. The Futaba thing is really the tipping point, honestly. Our greatest window into the pain and agony Akechi is causing, including the cutscenes of the train accident and the principal's death, is Futaba's reclusiveness and trauma. Attempting to "redeem" a character who caused so much pain with so little time and effort just isn't going to work. Hunt11 posted:Do you remember the start of the game where a train driver plowed into a crowded platform, killing and horrifyingly injuring countless people all for the purpose of assassinating two politicians? That is the type of poo poo Goro has been doing whilst working for his father. Yes he has a tragic backstory but at a certain point where that just doesn't cut it anymore and he needs to face serious consequences for everything that he has done.
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Mar 1, 2019 05:38
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There's a lot of half-writing in P5 that could be resolved if they would just loving commit to a character arc for anyone except like Ryuji and Kamoshida.
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Mar 1, 2019 05:41
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Like I guess you can just resolve the "Akechi can kill anytime, anywhere" issue by taking his cell phone from him like a grounded teenager? That at least opens the door to that making any kind of sense.
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Mar 1, 2019 05:42
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Expect My Mom posted:weird thing, they never actually say anyone dies or (maybe even hurt too?) in that train crash. it's super strange, so like, there's just a weird amount of gray area that it feels like they wanted the door left open The game does state that numerous people are in the hospital after that incident and nothing that is said in Shido's palace indicates that the purpose of the incident, killing two politicians, failed.
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Mar 1, 2019 05:42
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Captain Baal posted:There's a lot of half-writing in P5 that could be resolved if they would just loving commit to a character arc for anyone except like Ryuji and Kamoshida. It's really bizarre how little it seems to care about its characters.
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Mar 1, 2019 05:43
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getting mad about persona 5 all over again, just like old times
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Mar 1, 2019 05:44
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At the end of the day, the real issue is Katsura Hashino Retire Bitch
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Mar 1, 2019 05:44
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I still get mad at Ryuji risking his life to save all of his friends and they beat him up when he turns out to be okay. Like why?
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Mar 1, 2019 05:44
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TheKingofSprings posted:Like I guess you can just resolve the "Akechi can kill anytime, anywhere" issue by taking his cell phone from him like a grounded teenager? That at least opens the door to that making any kind of sense. metaverse is kaput after the game's over, that bit wouldn't be an issue there's probably a way to pull akechi at least partway out of the hole he'd dug for himself, but likely not within the amount of space that a p4 golden-esque expansion would permit e: also the reason akechi loses his poo poo during his boss fight is that he finally takes stock of his experiences with the PT versus his revenge schemes and realizes that everything he did for the sake of the latter is just ashes in his mouth, he has the same sort of existential meltdown mitsuo has in his dungeon for P4 but unlike mitsuo he's way further gone and way more willing to just self-terminate rather than continue to face what he's made of himself Oxxidation fucked around with this message at 05:47 on Mar 1, 2019 |
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Mar 1, 2019 05:44
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Goro is a character that's going to take multiple games to resolve because he has so much loving baggage to unpack that a rerelease alone is not enough. He's gonna need the Rerelease, the fighting game, and the Bust-A-Move game.
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Mar 1, 2019 05:47
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Bit of a tangent but I'm fond of Mitsuo as just a bland, one-note character. It's a weird little aside in P4 that I like a lot.
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Mar 1, 2019 05:48
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Oxxidation posted:metaverse is kaput after the game's over, that bit wouldn't be an issue It fixes the problem once the game's over, but there's a span of about a month between the 6th and 7th palace where he has super magic murder powers and has betrayed everyone once already. Plus he's super famous and high profile. Basically Akechi actually living has Problems.
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Mar 1, 2019 05:50
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yeah i love mitsuo. his dungeon opening with the same lines as SMT 1 was weird, his music is good, his character is small but concise. it feels weirdly freshCaptain Baal posted:Goro is a character that's going to take multiple games to resolve because he has so much loving baggage to unpack that a rerelease alone is not enough. He's gonna need the Rerelease, the fighting game, and the Bust-A-Move game.
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Mar 1, 2019 05:51
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You know what'll solve the Akechi problem and make everybody happy? Parallel universes.
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Mar 1, 2019 05:52
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I will play the P5 fighting game because the P4 one was fun and so experimental in playstyles even for the BB team that I am genuinely interested in seeing the P5 characters in a game with the same lack of restrictions with dumb bullshit.
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Mar 1, 2019 05:52
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