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Purple Haze and Golden Experience kinda have opposite powers in much the same way that Killer Queen and Crazy Diamond do so Fugo being a traitor would’ve worked pretty well but eh whatever
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Mar 1, 2019 21:56
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Sooo what happened to the extra turtle? Did they just leave it on the island?
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Mar 1, 2019 22:01
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Diavolo's goals in life can be boiled down to: 1. Remove everything that could provide even the smallest hint as to who he is or where he came from 2. Make himself feel good about how much power and influence he has over everything around him 3. Protect Doppio (but not at the expense of his own life) The problem is that we never see the alternative that would solve all of his problems but wouldn't be 100% ideal enough to make him consider it. Dio in part 3 could have confronted Jotaro and friends at any point after they left Japan and would've easily been able to kill them at the time and place of his choosing. He won't, though, because he's grown too comfortable on his throne to put himself in immediate danger. Kira could have left Morioh after his identity was discovered, but doing so would mean surrendering his ideal of a quiet life in favor of a world that he can't mold to his complete satisfaction. We don't spend enough time with Diavolo to understand why he has to remain in control of Passione instead of moving to farm in Sardinia where he can disguise himself as Doppio and spend all day telling cows how superior to them he is. zetamind2000 fucked around with this message at 00:04 on Mar 2, 2019 |
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Mar 1, 2019 22:19
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Diavolo desperately wants to be not human. He wants to be the force that is fated to control everything, something that everybody must adhere to and knows exists but cannot fathom at a physical level or interact with directly. Diavolo is best described by comparing everything he is to what DIO isn't.
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Mar 2, 2019 00:01
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overmind2000 posted:We don't spend enough time with Diavolo to understand why he has to remain in control of Passione instead of moving to farm in Sardinia where he can disguise himself as Doppio and spend all day telling cows how superior to them he is. Because he wants to avoid all the Lows of life and solely get the highs. Being the eternal anonymous king of his appears to give him the most satisfaction.
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Mar 2, 2019 00:18
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FirstAidKite posted:Diavolo is best described by comparing everything he is to what DIO isn't. DIO is a compelling antagonist while Diavolo isn't, checks out.
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Mar 2, 2019 00:53
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Expect My Mom posted:I would have loved to see the scenes Araki has talked about where he wanted Fugo to have fight Passione, I think maybe on assignment, which would end in his death, but things in Araki's personal life at the time made the idea of friends betraying and killing each other too hard for him to write I agree with the sentiment as a whole but the last impression most watchers/readers will get of Fugo is not entirely inaccurate, because he is a coward who follows his brain too much and his heart not nearly enough. From his own perspective (and this is partly Bruno's fault in not explaining his goals more thoroughly or at least sooner, tbh) the gang is doing something suicidally stupid for the sake of a random girl they have no attachment to. Delivering Trish to her killer is scummy, but they're criminals that do all sorts of scummy things already, so he just stands there not understanding what made Bruno suddenly have a change of heart. There's more to it than that, though. Obviously the real reason he stayed behind is because Araki couldn't go with his original plan for him, but for all of his inconsistencies the man has a better grasp of psychology and characterization than most shonen mangaka, so even in his final unrealized state I find him compelling for being tragically... Well, human. Fundamentally the problem Fugo suffers from is that he's got book smarts and a literally self-destructive personality and those are the reasons he stays behind. If Bruno had shared some of his thoughts about the drug trade earlier (or at all) things might have gone differently, but, well, he didn't. Fugo's position in the family unit that the gang has formed is that of the smart and cool headed guy (at least when he isn't snapping at people), just from the few scenes he gets it's safe to assume he views himself as a sort of mentor to Narancia and Giorno. It's only natural that he'd be confused to the point of paralysis when Bruno tells him that, if he wants to continue being one of them, he must abandon the thing that gave him a sense of belonging in the first place. Without his role as the smart and cool headed guy, Fugo is just an angry guy with a stand that is as much of a threat to his friends as it is to himself. He is much like Narancia in that if Bruno had been more forceful then Fugo might have ended up going with them in the end. For all of his griping and rambling about how the group's actions make no sense, his last line is that expressing regret that he can't become a righteous idiot. Not won't but can't, because he needs someone to give him a proper friendship speech to overcome his self-defeating thoughts. I do agree with pretty much everyone who says he feels like a wasted character but, in a way, I find Fugo's ultimate fate much more fitting for him and more interesting as a parable than the original plan of him betraying the gang. It's not that Fugo walks away from the group, it's that the group walks away from him. It's not that he wouldn't die for Bruno, it's that Bruno fails to be the leader that Fugo needs. In a story about a bunch of misfits coming together as a family and ultimately fighting their evil patriarch, I do think that Fugo falling by the wayside fulfills his narrative purpose. I mean, it would've been a lot better if the story went back to this moment and developed Zombie Bruno a bit more, but Araki tl;dr I think cowardly Fugo makes more sense and is more interesting than traitor Fugo. Also I would stab a man in the cheek with a fork to see PHB or GHGR animated. GimmickMan fucked around with this message at 01:00 on Mar 2, 2019 |
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Mar 2, 2019 00:54
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Thinking on it, I'm kind of surprised that Diavolo didn't ice Fugo as a loose end.
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Mar 2, 2019 00:56
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It has been years since I read the manga, but I feel like the anime made it a lot clearer what the deal with Buccirati is. From the latest ep it looks like his spirit left his body (like we saw with characters like Avdol and even Joseph) but in the end he just kinda... decided not to leave and just entered his own body again. He saw that there was still stuff he had to do and his resolve let him possess his own body. It doesn't really have anything to do with Giorno's intervening, or King Crimson at all. Also agreed about the Fugo analysis. It's disappointing to see him go, but I think it works character wise. I really need to read Purple Haze Feedback now.
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Mar 2, 2019 01:26
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Baron La Croix posted:- Diavolo's always been one of my least favorite main villains, and I've realized that one of the major reasons is that it seems nothing makes him happy. I can't get any kind of handle on what his ideal future looks like. Even if DIO isn't the deepest character ever, it's pretty easy to visualize his ideal future of lording around in a castle taking whatever victims and lovers he feels like. That's not something I really get with Diavolo. That's something I really like about Diavolo, personally. The guy has one of the most ridiculously broken Stands in the series and yet he spends his days huddled in a dark corner and is so insanely paranoid of anyone knowing who he is he gets half his organization killed to eliminate the most minute of possibilities of his exposure. He had one of his capo's blow his own brains out just to deliver a message that can't be traced, just so he could kill Trish personally. His eventual end-goal is to get a Requiem Stand because only with an even more absurd superpower would he ever be able to feel safe. He's a total lunatic. It was purely his own paranoia that led to his downfall.
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Mar 2, 2019 01:29
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overmind2000 posted:Diavolo's goals in life can be boiled down to: He seems to enjoy the wealth and pleasures and all that poo poo that comes from being in control of Passione. He just wants to be king without the sword of Damocles hanging over his head. All the benefits of power with zero risk, kinda like how Kira wanted to keep murdering people without being disturbed. The alternative would have been to not try and kill Trish, a woman who didn't even know him and he didn't give a poo poo about, but that would be allowing some one to potentially mount a legitimate challenge to his throne. Remote but he presumably didn't get to his position by not being cautious.
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Mar 2, 2019 01:31
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Funky Valentine posted:Thinking on it, I'm kind of surprised that Diavolo didn't ice Fugo as a loose end. He never saw him, or his stand, so he's not really a threat to his identity.
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Mar 2, 2019 01:32
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Funky Valentine posted:DIO is a compelling antagonist while Diavolo isn't, checks out. Diavolo isn't compelling imo mainly because we don't get to see enough of him because of what his ideals are. DIO wants to control the world, but he wants to exist in that world as the only one able to move within it, able to have control over the entire universe at one specific time. Diavolo wants control over everything at all times but without having to directly interact with it like DIO does. Essentially what I'm getting at is that Diavolo, while a weak villain compared to other much greater main antagonists in JJBA, still has some strengths. It is just that to get to those strengths, you have to work backwards from Part 5 being an inverse of Part 3. It's like how sometimes you have to solve a math equation by figuring out what a variable isn't so that you know what the variable is.
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Mar 2, 2019 02:10
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 ^ Me while watching the perfectly animated second half to the Bruno Vs Boss fight this week. The bit with Crimson lounging on the stairs was perfect in every way. God I love this adaptation!
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Mar 2, 2019 04:00
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TGLT posted:He seems to enjoy the wealth and pleasures and all that poo poo that comes from being in control of Passione. He just wants to be king without the sword of Damocles hanging over his head. All the benefits of power with zero risk, kinda like how Kira wanted to keep murdering people without being disturbed. I was going to say this too, yeah. He really feels like he's trying to do what DIO does but doesn't want the stress of it. Which makes sense when you compare him to Bruno's gang because they have 「R E S O L V E 」while he really doesn't. Him being a lesser DIO is pretty apt too because DIO achieved what Diavolo wanted, but he had to die and reach a sort of mystical, mythic status among his followers to do it, while Diavolo can't. It kinda sucks, too, because the entire time you're just thinking about how much more entertaining DIO is. It DOES track with his character, though, so I'm torn.
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Mar 2, 2019 04:44
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Expect My Mom posted:good lord guys how are a lot of you bad at not saying things the show hasn't said I agree that spoiling how Epitaph works ruins the tension of King Crimson vs Metallica, but the fact that Doppio is The Boss's split personality is completely revealed to the viewer when he meets the fortune teller, before that fight even begins. I don't think it's supposed to be much of a mystery at that point.
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Mar 2, 2019 05:02
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also to an extent the shadow of diavolo shows that he has hair like trish's and green eyes doppio is gonna have pink hair as well and presumably green eyes. not that i support spoiling poo poo in the slightest but uhhhhhhhhhh it's gonna be telegraphed pretty hard.
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Mar 2, 2019 06:06
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BaDandy posted:I was going to say this too, yeah. He really feels like he's trying to do what DIO does but doesn't want the stress of it. Which makes sense when you compare him to Bruno's gang because they have 「R E S O L V E 」while he really doesn't. Him being a lesser DIO is pretty apt too because DIO achieved what Diavolo wanted, but he had to die and reach a sort of mystical, mythic status among his followers to do it, while Diavolo can't. It kinda sucks, too, because the entire time you're just thinking about how much more entertaining DIO is. It DOES track with his character, though, so I'm torn. Yeah, he's the correct villain but an unengaging one. Part of what makes Dio work is that, even when he's not present, his minions carry him with them. And with Kira, he kills Shigechi and very nearly kills Jotaro and Koichi before he's forced into hiding. Even when Kira's just tapping other people you get moments with him and Kosaku's family that keeps the threat of him very much alive. But Diavolo's minions don't respect him the way Dio's minions did, so they don't feel like an extension of his character, and Diavolo's too much of a coward himself to do anything but focus on eliminating Bruno's squad. He never gets to be a confident monster. Even his big moment where he technically kills Bruno feels more like Bruno's moment than his own. poo poo, he just doesn't have any really legit minions. Notorios BIG's user isn't really present, Risotto's a traitor, Cioccolata and Secco are barely controllable psychos, and Silver Chariot Requiem is a problem Diavolo also has to deal with. You get, what, shark soup and big liar? There's kinda something there with the way Pericolo offs himself. Maybe if the back end was full of characters who had been introduced as members of Passione before they gang betrayed Diavolo, then his shadowy bullshit could have worked better. I want Diavolo's control over Italy to be demonstrated by authority figures and former allies turning on Bruno and his gang. TGLT fucked around with this message at 06:21 on Mar 2, 2019 |
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Mar 2, 2019 06:16
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Nina posted:Diavolo is a bundle of anxiety and neuroses somehow by fluke having built a criminal empire. I don’t think he really has a sane vision for his future GE Requiem should have sent Diavolo to infinite therapists
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Mar 2, 2019 06:30
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I was looking it up and we do indeed not know what Trish's favorite kind of music is. We also don't know what Fugo's favorite music is so maybe he should quit throwing stones here.
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Mar 2, 2019 06:55
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Mista likes The Carpenters and i think that's just wonderfulDaxing Dan posted:I agree that spoiling how Epitaph works ruins the tension of King Crimson vs Metallica, but the fact that Doppio is The Boss's split personality is completely revealed to the viewer when he meets the fortune teller, before that fight even begins. I don't think it's supposed to be much of a mystery at that point. Still! I feel like what Doppio is exactly is still supposed to be unclear, so the less said the better, even if the words "dual personality" are said out loud e: nvm Doppio uses King Crimson seconds later so never loving mind, i really thought Doppio was a better kept secret but nope Expect My Mom fucked around with this message at 07:56 on Mar 2, 2019 |
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Mar 2, 2019 07:53
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Funky Valentine posted:Thinking on it, I'm kind of surprised that Diavolo didn't ice Fugo as a loose end. The fact that Fugo did not get on the boat with them means he did not betray him. Even when Bruno did deviate from the plan Diavolo still gave him a chance to walk away. He does not seem the sort to just throw away useful pawns unless they clearly go against him.
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Mar 2, 2019 10:23
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No matter how much something is telegraphed (and very little has been so far) stop trying to be coy and hinting at spoilers. If it hasn't happened in the anime, don't post about it in the anime thread. Anyway, gently caress I can't wait for King Crimson Vs Metallica. MonsterEnvy posted:The fact that Fugo did not get on the boat with them means he did not betray him. Even when Bruno did deviate from the plan Diavolo still gave him a chance to walk away. He does not seem the sort to just throw away useful pawns unless they clearly go against him. Especially a pawn with a stand as powerful as Purple Haze. You definitely wanna keep the bioweapons on your side and easily to hand.
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Mar 2, 2019 11:51
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lol that this is what the next episode opens with immediately after the gang becomes wanted fugitives and abandoned one of their friends
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Mar 2, 2019 18:07
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Funky Valentine posted:Diavolo's ideal future seems to be, gathering the gently caress-all he tells us about his motivations, a future where he rules the world but also no one knows he exists. It worked for Keyser Soze in ruling the underworld. Lamebot fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Mar 2, 2019 |
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Mar 2, 2019 22:39
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Expect My Mom posted:lol that this is what the next episode opens with immediately after the gang becomes wanted fugitives and abandoned one of their friends I love that they become concerned with the wine stain Narancia caused, instead of the fact they beat him half to death.
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Mar 2, 2019 23:11
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Well they could always heal the guy for free (you know... if they felt like it, which they didn't), but replacing a suit?? Money don't grow on trees.
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Mar 3, 2019 02:23
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Now that I think about it Keyser Soze and Diavolo are very similar characters in background and motivation. The Usual Suspects came out a few months prior to Vento Aureo's debut.
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Mar 3, 2019 03:20
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That fits with the trend of Araki getting ideas from movies. Most blatantly, Donatello Versace's backstory is straight up taken from Holes. And then there's all the horror movie Stands from Part 3. My favorite example, though, is Silver Chariot Requiem, which is based not on Freaky Friday, as one might assume, but on Amadeus. Seriously. Edit: And King Crimson was inspired by Total Recall. Silver2195 fucked around with this message at 03:38 on Mar 3, 2019 |
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Mar 3, 2019 03:31
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Waffleman_ posted:I still want a full translation of Poker Under Arms. Manga in Theory and Practice teased us with a few pages. it's on manga sites
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Mar 3, 2019 05:28
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Lamebot posted:Now that I think about it Keyser Soze and Diavolo are very similar characters in background and motivation. The Usual Suspects came out a few months prior to Vento Aureo's debut.
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Mar 3, 2019 05:41
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Silver2195 posted:Silver Chariot Requiem, which is based not on Freaky Friday, as one might assume, but on Amadeus. Seriously. How so, in what way?
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Mar 3, 2019 12:00
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Is Diavolo on that new battle royale jojo game? I wonder how his ability would translate to that genre; so far the only good depiction I seen of it was on the ps2 game, not when they have him slowdown time but where he literally skips to another spot of the level
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Mar 3, 2019 13:35
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I can't fully remember how it worked in Eyes of Heaven but I think you could just activate Epitaph and you'd be immune if you got hit while it was open and you could telport around a bit. He's not been revealed for the battle royale but it's an anime promo game so they might once he's unveiled in the show.
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Mar 3, 2019 15:37
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Momomo posted:Well they could always heal the guy for free (you know... if they felt like it, which they didn't), but replacing a suit?? Money don't grow on trees. Rocks to flesh is simple, but rocks to Armani cannot be done.
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Mar 3, 2019 18:28
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Josuke Higashikata posted:I can't fully remember how it worked in Eyes of Heaven but I think you could just activate Epitaph and you'd be immune if you got hit while it was open and you could telport around a bit. Yeah, Epitaph is an auto-dodge that teleports behind people. Erased time is either used for an auto-counter or to make you temporarily invisible/invulnerable until you attack.
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Mar 3, 2019 18:44
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Willsun posted:Also of course Fugo's coming back. It's prime material for a dramatic save with some kinda "Did you miss me?" Ah, I remember when I first thought that. And then Diavolo was going through his eternal torment and I was wondering where the hell Fugo was. 
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Mar 3, 2019 20:06
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FirstAidKite posted:How so, in what way? https://pastebin.com/fnJyWvE6 Hirohiko Araki posted:CHARIOT REQUIEM OK, the movie Amadeus didn't originate the legends surrounding Mozart's Requiem (his widow Constanze did), but it definitely popularized them to the point where it's a reasonable supposition that the movie influenced Araki's thought process when he designed SCR.
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Mar 3, 2019 21:28
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https://twitter.com/camille_leto/status/1088501870098821126 https://twitter.com/camille_leto/status/1101906116567535616 Expect My Mom fucked around with this message at 05:44 on Mar 4, 2019 |
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Mar 4, 2019 05:31
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Rereading part 6 and what's up with Jolyne's lawyer being an elf?
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Mar 4, 2019 05:41
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