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RBC posted:it kind of seems like they're fleeing a sinking ship doesnt it Thats the thing though. Its not like this is a sudden phenomenon since the fundraising has been falling since Mulcair took over. It just hit its bottom under Singh.
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Mar 2, 2019 20:48
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I've gotten a lot of fundraising calls over the last months from the Federal NDP and every time I've told the person on the phone I'll donate once they given even the slightest hint they've stopped drifting to the right and have some actual leftist ideas. Every time the person on the phone has not argued with me and told me they feel the exact same way and maybe once donations dry up from their actual voter base they'll get the message but they promised to do this fundraising so have to at least make the calls. So actual federal NDP fundraisers are practically encouraging us to stop donating because the party is so lovely right now.
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Mar 2, 2019 20:55
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I wonder if we could work out some sort of trade like sports teams do. Ship off Jagmeet, Mulcair and the rest of the centre-right NDPers to the Libs for “future considerations”. They’d be much happier in the LPC.
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Mar 2, 2019 21:00
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Mulcair came from the Liberal Party.
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Mar 2, 2019 21:05
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Furnaceface posted:Mulcair came from the Liberal Party. I know. Send him back!
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Mar 2, 2019 21:07
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Furnaceface posted:Mulcair came from the Liberal Party. Anyone on record saying they're a fan of Maggie Thatcher should be laughed out of the room when trying to join the NDP.
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Mar 2, 2019 21:09
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infernal machines posted:Anyone on record saying they're a fan of Maggie Thatcher should be laughed out of the room when trying to join the NDP. I somehow forgot about that. The NDP is a loving mess right now.
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Mar 2, 2019 21:12
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The NDP's fundraising problem probably has a substantial amount due to the fact that Mulcair stayed on as interm leader, then proceeded to check the gently caress out and let the entire machine that he and Layton built rust. Mulcair should have bailed to the backbenches and had some other interm leader step up.
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Mar 2, 2019 22:59
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I wouldn't worry, some guy wrote an article in the Tyee about how Canada will succumb to Duverger’s Law and collapse to two major parties, one of which will be the NDP because uhhhh that part wasn't fleshed out so well in the article so buy the book that it's about, I guess?
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Mar 2, 2019 23:11
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If the NDP does actually collapse, a third party probably won’t emerge for like another decade, if at all. The size of the machine you need in order to be taken seriously (or even to be in a position to receive votes) under this electoral system pretty much forces corporatist interests that are at best centre-right. Be interesting to see if Mad Max can do it by just replacing the “hard gruelling campaign work” portion with conspiracy ramble. I don’t know if you started a leftier party that you could ever get anything close to the amount of free media coverage he has. Even if you threw in some extremist rhetoric of your own. Seat Safety Switch fucked around with this message at 23:21 on Mar 2, 2019 |
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Mar 2, 2019 23:18
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Femtosecond posted:The NDP's fundraising problem probably has a substantial amount due to the fact that Mulcair stayed on as interm leader, then proceeded to check the gently caress out and let the entire machine that he and Layton built rust. Mulcair should have bailed to the backbenches and had some other interm leader step up. I have no evidence for this but my hunch is that the reason the NDP wanted Mulcair to stick around is because they were terrified that the activists who mobilized to get rid of Mulcair might have had some momentum going into a leadership race and might have been able to create some pressure for a more left-wing candidate. Freezing everything in place and waiting for the moment of energy to subsidize so that party affairs could remain safely boring and out-of-reach for rank and file members seems like a clever play if you are eager to avoid anything as sordid as internal party democracy. Turns out being really boring and keeping your most enthusiastic supporters at arms length means you get over invested in fundraising off being the government in waiting, which can sorta backfire once nobody perceives you as being the government in waiting.
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Mar 2, 2019 23:36
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https://twitter.com/thehill/status/...ingawful.com%2F Guess Doug has a fan in the White House..
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Mar 3, 2019 00:46
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But university campuses have free speech already  is he planning to use his powers to force people to provide a platform even if they don't want to provide one or be an audience even if they don't want to listen??? or be free of consequences for what they do say? I mean obviously yes but the right doesn't know what free speech actually means
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Mar 3, 2019 00:49
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Saying "I am going to enshrine into law the right of Nazis to be heard" probably doesn't read as well
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Mar 3, 2019 00:51
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https://www.straight.com/news/1208316/its-no-calamity-ndp-leader-jagmeet-singh-nathan-cullen-and-murray-rankin-wont-run-2019 There's no way Jagmeet knocked on all 30k doors, no one has that kind of bustle
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Mar 3, 2019 01:19
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BattleMaster posted:But university campuses have free speech already Ford has basically threatened to cut funding to universities and colleges that don't provide a platform to all forms of speech. He's made it so right wing fuckers can scream to him about the evil Marxist postsecondary institutions stifling free speech, allowing him to rip into the education system further.
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Mar 3, 2019 01:50
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BattleMaster posted:But university campuses have free speech already You are putting more thought into it than Trump or Dougie ever had. Its nothing but a bone being tossed to racist conservative snowflakes who listen/read too much Postmedia and think right wingers are being forcefully silenced at colleges and universities. Also I mentioned it in USPol when it came up but this is actually bad for his base down there. A lot of their Evangelical right wing colleges operate on prohibiting and limiting speech that strays too farm from their programming. Liberty U, for example, has a very strict code of conduct that this would undermine. No longer could they ban anything that isnt prosperity gospel and if some leftist like Bernie Sanders showed up to do a campaign speech there is no way to stop it.
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Mar 3, 2019 02:02
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looking forward to supporting free speech on campuses when NAMBLA shows up.
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Mar 3, 2019 04:21
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Arcsquad12 posted:Ford has basically threatened to cut funding to universities and colleges that don't provide a platform to all forms of speech. He's made it so right wing fuckers can scream to him about the evil Marxist postsecondary institutions stifling free speech, allowing him to rip into the education system further. I actually thought this was a problem on campuses, wherein groups holding minority views (conservatives) were being indirectly shut down. It worked like this. The group books a speaker, and budgets for security as required by campus policy. Then the University comes and says, "You don't just have to pay security for your group, you also have to pay for security for all the groups who come to protest you." This is a switch from "Pay your own way" to "Pay your own way, plus the way of everyone who wants to get in your way." That's no okay. That is blocking free speech, since a person won't be allowed to speak unless they pay not just for the expenses actually associated with their event, but also to cover the cost of efforts made against the speaker to frustrate the event. However, the only example I could find of this was the University of Waterloo telling Lindsey Shepard that if she wanted to book her speaker, it would be $25,000. The speaker was Faith Goldy. First, shame on the University of Waterloo for not just saying, "Nope, free speech doesn't mean allowing hate mongers." Second, if the extent of this problem is that a speech which shouldn't have been allowed to go ahead because of its contents didn't go ahead, I can wait until a real problem emerges. That sure doesn't justify whatever awfulness Ford is going to impose.
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Mar 3, 2019 04:38
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Maneck posted:I actually thought this was a problem on campuses, wherein groups holding minority views (conservatives) were being indirectly shut down. It worked like this. The group books a speaker, and budgets for security as required by campus policy. Then the University comes and says, "You don't just have to pay security for your group, you also have to pay for security for all the groups who come to protest you." The thing is that the reason they have to pay for the security of the protesters is because of the very real threat of violence from their own supporters against said protesters. Like these are people that attract groups like the Proud Boys to their demonstrations, and in the US have supporters walking around open carrying assault rifles. A big thing these people often try to do is deliberately provoke violence and then disavow the violence that ensues - pretending that openly displaying hate symbols is just "exercising free speech" and not meant to bait people into attacking them. Making them pay for security is the university not buying into the bullshit.
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Mar 3, 2019 05:08
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Dreylad posted:looking forward to supporting free speech on campuses when NAMBLA shows up. what in the gently caress
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Mar 3, 2019 05:22
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Dreylad is just saying that if pedophiles want to proselytize on university campuses, the ill-advised "free speech" poo poo the right wants would mean they can. It's a bit of an extreme example but these short-sighted bits of legislation are open for abuse.
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Mar 3, 2019 05:23
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BattleMaster posted:Dreylad is just saying that if pedophiles want to proselytize on university campuses, the ill-advised "free speech" poo poo the right wants would mean they can. It's a bit of an extreme example but these short-sighted bits of legislation are open for abuse. Dunno, sounds like you don't think you've got a better argument than the pedos.
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Mar 3, 2019 05:33
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I hope the Satanic Temple does their usual thing and starts getting people to book them to come speak at Christian universities.
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Mar 3, 2019 05:35
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Tsyni posted:Dunno, sounds like you don't think you've got a better argument than the pedos. I would prefer not to have to argue against pedophiles because I thought they are something a vast majority of society agrees are bad, but a few years ago I thought that about literal Nazis so
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Mar 3, 2019 05:43
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Thanks friends now I'm imagining an alt-right pedophile screeching "DEBATE ME!!!!" at everyone who dares to tweet that pedophilia is bad
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Mar 3, 2019 05:47
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BattleMaster posted:Dreylad is just saying that if pedophiles want to proselytize on university campuses, the ill-advised "free speech" poo poo the right wants would mean they can. It's a bit of an extreme example but these short-sighted bits of legislation are open for abuse. It isn't a good example. NAMBLA advocating their positions is actually a crime in Canada. Just advocating for sexual relations between adults and children is a violation of the criminal code.
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Mar 3, 2019 05:49
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Maneck posted:It isn't a good example. NAMBLA advocating their positions is actually a crime in Canada. Just advocating for sexual relations between adults and children is a violation of the criminal code. I'm glad to be wrong here
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Mar 3, 2019 05:51
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I guess this explains the recent independent streak https://twitter.com/MPCelina/status/1101932502711783426
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Mar 3, 2019 05:52
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Blood Boils posted:https://www.straight.com/news/1208316/its-no-calamity-ndp-leader-jagmeet-singh-nathan-cullen-and-murray-rankin-wont-run-2019 Maybe he had the hustle, though.
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Mar 3, 2019 06:11
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vyelkin posted:Thanks friends now I'm imagining an alt-right pedophile screeching "DEBATE ME!!!!" at everyone who dares to tweet that pedophilia is bad Gotta hear both sides!! 
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Mar 3, 2019 07:51
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Protest is a form of free speech. If a university has to be forced to bring a nazi in because  FREE SPEECH then protests of said nazi should also be allowed and encouraged.
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Mar 3, 2019 15:26
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Leofish posted:Protest is a form of free speech. If a university has to be forced to bring a nazi in because no no no, that's the BAD kind of free speech.
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Mar 3, 2019 15:32
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tagesschau bursts in to the thread panting, visibly out of breath H..h..h... Heckler's veto
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Mar 3, 2019 16:01
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Personally I'm glad to hear the government is going to enshrine free speech as a positive, rather than a negative, right. I look forward to my upcoming lecture tour and television show paid for by the Ontario Government because it would be censorship for them not to ensure everyone can hear my views.
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Mar 3, 2019 16:05
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Maneck posted:It isn't a good example. NAMBLA advocating their positions is actually a crime in Canada. Just advocating for sexual relations between adults and children is a violation of the criminal code. Yeah exactly. I don't want faith goldy going on tours to Canadian colleges, but NAMBLA is a ridiculous and disgusting example.
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Mar 3, 2019 16:28
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I'm going to say that the NAMBLA comparison is in fact valid, because both Nazis and pedophiles should be criminalized and made to gently caress off and die. Even as someone who has pretty civil-libertarian views on freedom of speech, I think we can draw the line for acceptable vs. unacceptable speech in such a way that kiddie fuckers and white supremacist hatemongers are both on the wrong side of it, and then we don't have to have stupid debates like "well are pedophiles worse than Nazis?" because it's a completely useless question. First they came for the pedophiles, and I said nothing because I don't gently caress children. Then they came for the Nazis, and I said nothing because I'm not a goddamn Nazi. And then it turns out society was improved considerably.
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Mar 3, 2019 17:18
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PT6A posted:I'm going to say that the NAMBLA comparison is in fact valid, because both Nazis and pedophiles should be criminalized and made to gently caress off and die. Quiz: write a law that criminalizes some speech and not others; and also doesn't set a precedent that can be later used against the others. Solution: ǝlqᴉssodɯᴉ s,ʇᴉ xtal fucked around with this message at 17:40 on Mar 3, 2019 |
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Mar 3, 2019 17:35
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xtal posted:Solution: ǝlqᴉssodɯᴉ s,ʇᴉ Did you just use a comma in place of an inverted apostrophe?
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Mar 3, 2019 17:38
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xtal posted:Quiz: write a law that criminalizes some speech and not others; and also doesn't set a precedent that can be later used against the others. does it need to be an explicit subset of speech? If not, Section 13 was doing a pretty good job until the cons scrapped it.
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Mar 3, 2019 18:09
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