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HBM is great on paper and it does indeed perform but all these attempts to iterate when costs are still crazy high for previous gens isn't making things better- its making them worse.
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Mar 4, 2019 16:45
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Its still about targeting the mainstream gaming market IMO. If they can get their poo poo together and actually compete per core performance with intel, gamers will be all over that stuff. Not sure what the market share of that stuff is vs workstations and all the other stuff they sell, but im sure its a sizeable market. Also here at work we still all use intel xenon procs in our cad/engineering workstations.Does Dell or places like Lenovo even sell AMD stuff in their workstations? Im sure all those extra cores and virtual cores would do wonders for our Finite Element analysis where we Crash a car virtually into a wall, which usually takes the system to run 24-36 hrs to come up with full results. Or head impac models, or air nbag deployment models, which still take hours if not days to fully process.
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Mar 4, 2019 21:35
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The community college I'm going to has 2700Xs in their desktops for SolidWorks and 2600 in the laptops. I don't recall the PC brand.
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Mar 4, 2019 23:17
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Peechka posted:Its still about targeting the mainstream gaming market IMO. If they can get their poo poo together and actually compete per core performance with intel, gamers will be all over that stuff. Not sure what the market share of that stuff is vs workstations and all the other stuff they sell, but im sure its a sizeable market. Dell has one business laptop and one business desktop right now, it’s not linked anywhere and you have to ask for configurations and price quotes. All the workstations are i7/Xeon CPUs. You can get a Dell Alienware TR chip, which is not marketed to business at all. I think they’re flooded with AMD platform requests, dunno why there is nothing to buy.
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Mar 5, 2019 00:28
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What's the sanest way to plop memory on a threadripper? Asrock x399 Taichai, buying probably next week when this contract pays out. The QVL lists are almost all for single-channel configurations with one stick per CCX. https://www.asrock.com/MB/AMD/X399%20Taichi/index.asp#Memory Probably just the 2920x 12-core because I expect to be putting in a zen2 when they drop in 6-9 months anyway.
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Mar 5, 2019 03:44
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nice
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Mar 5, 2019 06:56
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Harik posted:What's the sanest way to plop memory on a threadripper? Asrock x399 Taichai, buying probably next week when this contract pays out. The QVL lists are almost all for single-channel configurations with one stick per CCX.
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Mar 5, 2019 16:36
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Combat Pretzel posted:Get a quad stick kit and put two per bank, so that every die has dual channel. I have Corsair 4x8GB XMS DDR4-3000 running on my X399 Taichi. I have them running at 2833 tho, since the board balks at attempting 3000. At least with these modules. Zen+ still ties IF to the DRAM speed though, right? I thought they were locked together until zen2. That's why I was looking at doing 3200 CL14 samsung b-die ram.
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Mar 5, 2019 17:05
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So the rumored 3600X would be a single die with 8 cores, no more inter ccx delay and direct access to both Dram channels? That could be quite the challenger for a stock 9900K 
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Mar 5, 2019 17:56
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sauer kraut posted:So the rumored 3600X would be a single die with 8 cores, no more inter ccx delay and direct access to both Dram channels? It would suspect it would be 2 dies with 4 cores a piece. Perfectly working 8 cores dies are going to be put in the higher end SKU's.
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Mar 5, 2019 20:10
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I guess 1050 performance is enough for some people, I just think it runs the risk of falling behind entry CPU SKU+entry GPU too easily, and Intel is also ramping up thier iGPU efforts as well. So higher performance APUs make sense to me in this regard.Harik posted:Zen+ still ties IF to the DRAM speed though, right? I thought they were locked together until zen2. That's why I was looking at doing 3200 CL14 samsung b-die ram. It's likely, even probably that IF frequency is still locked to memory frequency, but if it's still the same divider is unknown. I think it's a safe bet to still invest in good RAM for the AM4 platform.
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Mar 5, 2019 22:39
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AMDs favorite benchmark got updated for the first time since 2013 and they seem to have lost their edge a bit, the 1700Xs lead over the 7700K dropped from ~60% to ~40%. Better AVX utilization maybe? If so then Zen2 should restore balance anyway.
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Mar 5, 2019 23:09
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So I went from a 3770K (@4.3) to a 1600 (@stock presently) and I gotta say I see no losses but I see no substantial benefits either. A few apps tell me they’re using 12 threads but overall the amount of time it takes to do a thing is negligible and at least I can be happy that I didn’t go backwards. I plan to give OC a try but I’m on a stock cooler so I don’t expect much gain. Nonetheless pleased that I chose the beefiest VRMs you can get on a B450 and paid for the 3200 blingin’ RAM, because someday I want to stick the best chip I can put in an AM4 socket on this thing.
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Mar 6, 2019 00:24
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Thunderbolt 3 coming to AMD: https://newsroom.intel.com/news/intel-takes-steps-enable-thunderbolt-3-everywhere-releases-protocol/ (yes, yes, but technically-correct is the best correct. =P)
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Mar 6, 2019 10:26
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Wonder if that will open the door to Zen in Apple kit then.
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Mar 6, 2019 11:10
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JockstrapManthrust posted:Wonder if that will open the door to Zen in Apple kit then. probably not, apple is probably going to go with an arm solution and move away from x86-64 so they can have a "one os" walled garden.
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Mar 6, 2019 13:13
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Gross
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Mar 6, 2019 13:15
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I just don’t see them going Arm for a while because while for most users that use their machines for Facebook and email, there are still professional users that like the Mac OS environment that need more beef.
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Mar 6, 2019 16:48
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I'm not up to date about MacOS power users, but something something Mac Pro.
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Mar 6, 2019 16:58
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Combat Pretzel posted:I'm not up to date about MacOS power users, but something something Mac Pro. You mean the Mac Pro that was released in 2013 and still is the same to this day? Ivy Bridge-E 6 or 8 core with a pair of old AMD FirePro cards? They really don't seem to care about power users. Edit: OK, sure, they made an "iMac Pro", but still HalloKitty fucked around with this message at 17:25 on Mar 6, 2019 |
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Mar 6, 2019 17:23
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That was some expert shade by Titus
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Mar 6, 2019 18:07
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She can’t even say if she has met a dreamer
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Mar 6, 2019 18:08
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I'm not even sure what's holding creative people to the Mac platform. There's only really Logic Pro and Final Cut, and in my opinion there's way better alternatives (also available on Mac). The only other major argument of color management is also long dead. Windows is also pretty stable for years now, if you run decent hardware and their drivers (where applicable, since a lot works using class drivers nowadays).
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Mar 6, 2019 18:27
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Probably something to do with the OS not forcing you to be a beta tester of a gigantic pile of poo poo
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Mar 6, 2019 18:31
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Also comfort with something they’ve use for 15 years and they know how it works.
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Mar 6, 2019 18:33
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Craptacular! posted:So I went from a 3770K (@4.3) to a 1600 (@stock presently) and I gotta say I see no losses but I see no substantial benefits either. A few apps tell me they’re using 12 threads but overall the amount of time it takes to do a thing is negligible and at least I can be happy that I didn’t go backwards. I plan to give OC a try but I’m on a stock cooler so I don’t expect much gain. I went from a 3570K with a 4.2Ghz OC to a 2700X with a 4.23Ghz OC on all cores. I've seen some noticeable improvements compared to my old setup, but I'd also chalk it up to the tremendously faster NVMe drive and DDR4-3200 RAM.
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Mar 6, 2019 18:43
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Mostly inertia is keeping Macs where they are. My company has a design department and they are all extremely confused by PCs. I have 1 person that uses PC by choice, it has some nice Dell UltraSharps and better specs. Everyone else makes fun of her choice and says her monitor has washed out colors (it doesn't). She's thrilled with it and mocks them, but it's going to take a very long time before Mac is no longer entrenched. We'll likely see acceptance later, but currently I don't think companies will want to deal with not getting a mac. We ask new people if they want a Mac or PC and according to HR over 50% of people responded to that with if you are thinking of switching from Mac to PC I'm not interested. So we no longer ask that at interview and instead they get asked their first day when I figure out what hardware to assign them. I just default to Mac and mention if they prefer PCs I can set them up. It's also pretty idiot proof since you get a nice quality monitor with reasonable hardware as a minimum. Apple doesn't really make low end budget stuff, so you don't have to worry about getting a $200 piece of junk. Don't ask me why people have to compare the $200 garbage laptop with 32GB flash memory to a $2,000 mac and think it's at all a fair comparison but that's what happens. I've been down that road way too many times. Let's compare a $2,000 PC to that $2,000 Mac and they just can't get past the fact that a $200 laptop exists and is their only experience on PC.
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Mar 6, 2019 18:46
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Combat Pretzel posted:I'm not even sure what's holding creative people to the Mac platform. There's only really Logic Pro and Final Cut, and in my opinion there's way better alternatives (also available on Mac). The only other major argument of color management is also long dead. Windows is also pretty stable for years now, if you run decent hardware and their drivers (where applicable, since a lot works using class drivers nowadays). I think the fact that most Windows laptop screens are garbo compared to MBPs or iMacs puts designers off moving away from the platform. If you're running a design agency that is a significant bonus.
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Mar 6, 2019 19:22
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I think it's probably due to businesses looking at the switch as a way to save money rather than a way to do stuff better. There's plenty of good hardware, but if you say you want to work on PC, will you actually get it?
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Mar 6, 2019 19:32
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Chas McGill posted:I think the fact that most Windows laptop screens are garbo compared to MBPs or iMacs puts designers off moving away from the platform. If you're running a design agency that is a significant bonus. This is the $200 laptop comparison he noted, Windows laptops can have good displays too when you get into the $2000 segment. 
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Mar 6, 2019 19:40
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KKKLIP ART posted:I just dont see them going Arm for a while because while for most users that use their machines for Facebook and email, there are still professional users that like the Mac OS environment that need more beef. An A12X at 7W TDP is only 80% as powerful as the i7 in the new MBP running at 45W TDP. Imagine if Apple made even a 25W TDP Arm processor.
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Mar 6, 2019 19:48
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Chas McGill posted:I think the fact that most Windows laptop screens are garbo compared to MBPs or iMacs puts designers off moving away from the platform. If you're running a design agency that is a significant bonus. Again, if you're looking at a $1500+ laptop, you need to compare it to other $1500+ laptops in order to be remotely fair. Then again, I suspect anyone lobbying to buy a bunch of MBPs because "windows laptops suck" isn't intending to foster fair competition.
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Mar 6, 2019 19:54
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K8.0 posted:I think it's probably due to businesses looking at the switch as a way to save money rather than a way to do stuff better. There's plenty of good hardware, but if you say you want to work on PC, will you actually get it? In my case, I'm the IT manager, and they are getting the same budget everyone else in design gets for their hardware so yes they will. Most places don't have someone in IT that actually understands the needs of a design department. So many people see a monitor is a monitor it doesn't matter if the color is accurate it just needs to be close enough. Which is pretty true in the business world, but if you are creating content you need the baseline to be good. Ever make something on a lovely monitor then look at it on a nice monitor and realize the colors actually clash horribly then go back to the lovely monitor to double check and everything looks great still? Basically management in most companies suck and Apple isn't going to change. Replacing Apple in a design department is going to take Apple falling on their face, something else displacing it, or a generation or two for everyone to just question "why?". I don't get why my parents and grandparents refuse to buy a TV from anyone but Sony. I assume they made really good CRTs back in the day, but their LCD panels are overpriced as all hell. Apple can likely coast on their reputation for anther 40-50 years.
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Mar 6, 2019 20:01
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wargames posted:probably not, apple is probably going to go with an arm solution and move away from x86-64 so they can have a "one os" walled garden. They're never going to be able to compete in multi-threaded then. What seems much more likely to me is an ARM co-processor to run instead at lower p-states and conserve power, with x86 coming online when more threads are needed. It should allow outstanding battery life with no real declines in performance. Combat Pretzel posted:I'm not even sure what's holding creative people to the Mac platform. There's only really Logic Pro and Final Cut, and in my opinion there's way better alternatives (also available on Mac). The only other major argument of color management is also long dead. Windows is also pretty stable for years now, if you run decent hardware and their drivers (where applicable, since a lot works using class drivers nowadays). I am pretty much done with my Hackintosh after they decided to hold Nvidia drivers hostage on Mojave and I'm moving on to Linux, only keeping this Mac partition around because my Dad's MacBook might be able to open it and save my files. Valve is trying to keep both platforms alive for games, but Apple's weird rejection of Vulkan in favor of making their own thing (very much in in the vein of such Apple busts as GeoPort Modems and OpenDoc from the bad old doomed era of Apple) has meant that progress is happening far faster on Linux, because people want to develop DXVK but DX-to-Vulkan-to-Metal might be a bridge too far. Combine that Safari does not feel five steps ahead of every other browser in quality-of-life thoughtfulness anymore, and the deep integration with my iPad on it's own simply isn't worth it. Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 20:59 on Mar 6, 2019 |
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Mar 6, 2019 20:47
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Why would Apple move to AMD when they can just threaten to do it every couple of years (and even build and "leak" obvious AMD powered examples on public benchmakring sites), and get Intel to sell them CPUs cater made to their specifications for a loss? Its the pro sports team stadium extortion model, or company HQ tax break model, and it works great!
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Mar 6, 2019 20:54
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Craptacular! posted:They're never going to be able to compete in multi-threaded then. How in the name of hell do you expect a userland process or indeed a kernel to change its instruction set when changing between power states? ARM big.little stuff works because it is switching between simple low power and complex high performance versions of the exact same version of the exact same ISA. feedmegin fucked around with this message at 21:01 on Mar 6, 2019 |
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Mar 6, 2019 20:56
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Cygni posted:Why would Apple move to AMD when they can just threaten to do it every couple of years (and even build and "leak" obvious AMD powered examples on public benchmakring sites), and get Intel to sell them CPUs cater made to their specifications for a loss? The margins on Apple stuff is probably not as great as the enterprise world, which is the real golden goose Intel is struggling to keep their chokehold of right now. Apple is huge, but they're huge for products that don't have any Intel technology in them, and the Macintosh right now is feeling a lot like the Apple II in 1986.
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Mar 6, 2019 21:02
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Apple has no growth markets with their current products. Maybe smart crap. The big money is in cloud and enterprise as goons have said. I've heard whispers that Apple intends to make big money as a payment processor actually.
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Mar 6, 2019 21:04
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Looks like Zen 2 t-ripp is indeed coming this year:
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Mar 6, 2019 21:23
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I am extremely psyched to run a fat as hell Threadripper rig. I'm hoping there's minimal fuckery running a Windows VM for CAD and setting up the host machine as a rendering node. Rip and tear my threads, Dr. Su.
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Mar 6, 2019 21:49
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