|
Chill la Chill posted:Might be playing 1889 or 1830 on Friday. Played 89 before but not 30. According to http://www.fwtwr.com/18xx/rules_difference_list/single_list.htm#6 30’s original rule says semi restrictive tile upgrades. However, the rulebook I got in the most recent printing says permissive. 89, which I understand to be a 30 derivative for new players, is semi-restrictive. Due to release date I assume the designer was cribbing from the original AH version. Which ruleset do people play with? I wouldn’t mind playing permissive so as to differentiate between the two games but semi-restrictive seems to be the clear designer intent. Keep in mind there were basically two designers for 1830, so their intent may be at cross purposes  . Tresham started it and then Shelley finished it and this is why you may be seeing both sets of rules. I always play with permissive.
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2019 19:06
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 02:33 |
|
|
Chill la Chill posted:Might be playing 1889 or 1830 on Friday. Played 89 before but not 30. According to http://www.fwtwr.com/18xx/rules_difference_list/single_list.htm#6 30’s original rule says semi restrictive tile upgrades. However, the rulebook I got in the most recent printing says permissive. 89, which I understand to be a 30 derivative for new players, is semi-restrictive. Due to release date I assume the designer was cribbing from the original AH version. Which ruleset do people play with? I wouldn’t mind playing permissive so as to differentiate between the two games but semi-restrictive seems to be the clear designer intent. Everyone on the 18xx Slack, including Clearclaw, says permissive.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2019 19:07
|
|
|
What is permissive/restrictive tile upgrades? 1830 is the only 18xx I played where you only lay/upgrade 1 track so is that what it means?
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2019 22:09
|
|
|
Alright, thanks for the help. I made a post on BGG too and clearclaw even linked to me the designer's response to the AH version. al-azad posted:What is permissive/restrictive tile upgrades? 1830 is the only 18xx I played where you only lay/upgrade 1 track so is that what it means? A general principle of all 18xx games is that an upgrade may never destroy existing track. This is to be assumed in everything written below. There are three common forms of the rule on this: permissive Some of the track on the newly-laid tile must be reachable from one of the laying company's station markers by an arbitrarily large train. restrictive Some of the newly-created track must be reachable from one of the laying company's station markers by an arbitrarily large train. semi-restrictive Some of the newly-created track must be reachable from one of the laying company's station markers by an arbitrarily large train or the value of a city which can be reached by that train changes. Permissive means you can just upgrade a tile to screw with another player's options at no cost. Semi-restrictive is the "intuitive" default for my group, but I can see permissive being intuitive as well. Restrictive means you would need to somehow build into a city from an adjacent track to upgrade it. Chill la Chill fucked around with this message at 22:17 on Mar 6, 2019 |
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2019 22:13
|
|
|
The important difference there, which it could be hard to see if you're not looking for it, is that with permissive lays the new track doesn't matter -- all that matters is that it's a tile you can run a train to, and the upgrade is otherwise legal. With restrictive track the above is true and you have to be able to run through at least some of the new track. And semi-restrictive is the above but with an exception for increasing the value of cities. There are basically no games that actually use restrictive lays, but semi-restrictive is common.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2019 22:17
|
|
|
Harzbahn notably is super restrictive, in that you can only do an upgrade if you can reach all of the new track on the tile.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2019 22:25
|
|
|
I still don't understand. I can't upgrade track without having an unblocked path unless what they mean by restrictive is I can't upgrade a city if another station token blocks half the track.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2019 22:33
|
|
|
An example would probably help. Let's say I want to upgrade a tile from 9 to 18 I have colored the "new" track red in this example, note that it is the parts of the track that didn't exist on #9 before. In "permissive" games I could lay that track as long as I could get to ANY of the rail on the tile, so if #9 was in my network as it existed before, I'm free to upgrade to 18. In "restrictive" I would have to be able to reach the red track specifically. This prevents me from, say, upgrading this tile and preventing someone else from upgrading it to a different configuration which would be advantageous for them.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2019 22:46
|
|
|
al-azad posted:I still don't understand. I can't upgrade track without having an unblocked path unless what they mean by restrictive is I can't upgrade a city if another station token blocks half the track.  I'm orange (or red, it doesn't matter) and I want to upgrade the tile to the right of me. I can clearly upgrade the tile because I can reach it, but I want to upgrade it to this:  Using permissive upgrades I can do this, because I can upgrade the tile, but using semi-restrictive or restrictive I cannot, because I can't run a train to any of the new track on the tile.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2019 22:47
|
|
|
Great ad, now we're going to have to explain how you can't double-back
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2019 23:19
|
|
|
I can pick up a copy of mage Knight ultimate edition for v cheap, are the expansions worth it?
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2019 23:43
|
|
|
Makes sense to me. Call me Mr. Permissive. I paid for the track, gently caress you for telling me not to stick a hairpin turn 50 miles away leading nowhere.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2019 23:49
|
|
|
Since the Age of Steam Deluxe kickstarter starts tomorrow figure I'll throw this question out there. As someone who doesn't play a lot of train games, what are the main differences between Age of Steam and an 18XX. Having read about each game and heard others talk about them, but never played myself, the description BGG gives of Age of Steam makes it sound pretty similar to an operations heavy 18XX game. The aesthetic also seems similar.
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2019 00:00
|
|
|
Kashuno posted:I can pick up a copy of mage Knight ultimate edition for v cheap, are the expansions worth it? As a whole, yeah. the expansions are generally a good thing. Specifically, expansion 1 (Lost Legion) completes Vlaada's vision for the game, adding in the all-important General Volkaire as a co-op boss fight and increasing the variety of the starting decks, the cardpool, and the monster pool. The second expansion (Krang) is just one character, and a pretty cool and interesting one at that. The third expansion (Shades of Tezla) is...mixed in its usefulness, but a lot of its weaker content is optional anyway.
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2019 00:03
|
|
|
Megasabin posted:Since the Age of Steam Deluxe kickstarter starts tomorrow figure I'll throw this question out there. As someone who doesn't play a lot of train games, what are the main differences between Age of Steam and an 18XX. Having read about each game and heard others talk about them, but never played myself, the description BGG gives of Age of Steam makes it sound pretty similar to an operations heavy 18XX game. The aesthetic also seems similar. They don't really have anything to do with each other other than having hexes and being about trains. AoS is a pick up and deliver game with a lot of debt financing and a really punishing turn order auction every round. 18xx has route building but no pick up and deliver aspect, and more importantly companies in 18xx games are independent entities distinct from the players that are fractionally owned in a stock market. I like both a lot, but don't go into them expecting them to be alike.
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2019 00:29
|
|
|
Megasabin posted:Since the Age of Steam Deluxe kickstarter starts tomorrow figure I'll throw this question out there. As someone who doesn't play a lot of train games, what are the main differences between Age of Steam and an 18XX. Having read about each game and heard others talk about them, but never played myself, the description BGG gives of Age of Steam makes it sound pretty similar to an operations heavy 18XX game. The aesthetic also seems similar. So the main differences are: in 18xx, player ownership is not company ownership, whereas in AOS players own the trains they buy; in 18xx, stocks are part of how you generate passive income, in AOS, you must take loans and deliver goods; 18xx has special power privates that do not change hands, AOS special powers can change hands every turn; 18xx has more levers to pull due to the presence of train buying and shuffling them around multiple companies. It is more like an operational 18xx, but you're fighting for actions via auction in AOS whereas you're fighting for first player priority and share price given a set turn order in 18xx. 18xx tends to have a more constant flow of money that comes into the economy with periodic pits where money goes into the purchase of new trains or new companies float while AOS has surges of money - steam further amplifies the surges and has a "money pump" of converting money->VP. I think the key differences here is because of how you start with money in 18xx and use it to attempt to snowball, whereas you must take loans in AOS and constantly try to keep your little company floating. But yeah for the most part they're the same wrt the goals of moneymaking and area control blocking. The differences are present if you care enough to delve into the world of train games. Get AOS if you care about a shorter time commitment.
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2019 00:32
|
|
|
Megasabin posted:Since the Age of Steam Deluxe kickstarter starts tomorrow figure I'll throw this question out there. As someone who doesn't play a lot of train games, what are the main differences between Age of Steam and an 18XX. Having read about each game and heard others talk about them, but never played myself, the description BGG gives of Age of Steam makes it sound pretty similar to an operations heavy 18XX game. The aesthetic also seems similar. Instant back for me. Some friends introduced us to AoS a few weeks ago and it was well loved by my wife and I. I hope they run a decent KS
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2019 02:41
|
|
|
Ropes4u posted:Instant back for me. Some friends introduced us to AoS a few weeks ago and it was well loved by my wife and I. I'm so tempted, but do I really want to buy Age of Steam again? I already have poker chips, wooden disks from Steam, and a bazillion expansion maps, but drat it if I'm not tempted to spring for their pretty package. I guess it depends on how the final art looks; I wasn't really excited by the early preview art.
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2019 04:47
|
|
|
I appreciate board game stores for existing but I really do wish there was some kind of incentive to get me to actually purchase from them more often. I feel bad visiting them, especially when they're so far out of the way so it's pretty much a thing where we're already out of town, let's look at a local game shop since we don't have one of our own (or rather, we do, but it's complicated). The prices always seem much higher than I'd be able to get online and I just don't know. At least I found a neat store that does cool get togethers where you pay some money and they'll have a couple of games they'll be teaching for a group, it's some place called Games Unlimited somewhere around Pittsburgh. I think the 8th or the 9th they're gonna have a group day for teaching people how to play Western Legends and that game looked pretty fun. I'd consider going but that shop is 90 minutes away and I don't want to go out 90 minutes solely to learn to play a board game for a few hours. I kinda wish we had a friendly local gaming shop, if only to like... game at. I mean, I mentioned before that we technically have one, but it is weird. There used to be one nearby but it went out of business I think and it was really really cramped and small too so there wasn't much space for anything. The other place actually has a lot of space and I didn't mind it there but it's mostly just magic the gathering cards. Probably a good 75-80% of their business is magic the gathering cards, the rest are a mix of other TCGs and dice and game mats and deck boxes and card sleeves. The other issue is that it's hard to know when it's actually open because the door for it is unmarked and it's the basement of an already sketchy-looking building and they don't always post on facebook whether they're open or not and they don't have a consistent work week either. They only open a couple of days a week at most and they're not always the same days as before and it just makes me not wanna even go there because of how troublesome it is to find out if they're even open for the night. tl;dr How's everyone's day doing?
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2019 12:34
|
|
|
FirstAidKite posted:I appreciate board game stores for existing but I really do wish there was some kind of incentive to get me to actually purchase from them more often. I feel bad visiting them, especially when they're so far out of the way so it's pretty much a thing where we're already out of town, let's look at a local game shop since we don't have one of our own (or rather, we do, but it's complicated). The prices always seem much higher than I'd be able to get online and I just don't know. At least I found a neat store that does cool get togethers where you pay some money and they'll have a couple of games they'll be teaching for a group, it's some place called Games Unlimited somewhere around Pittsburgh. I think the 8th or the 9th they're gonna have a group day for teaching people how to play Western Legends and that game looked pretty fun. I'd consider going but that shop is 90 minutes away and I don't want to go out 90 minutes solely to learn to play a board game for a few hours. I suspect the best model these days is the board game cafe type model - somewhere that has a shop, but mostly rents table space and provides a small selection of food and drinks to support cheaper game prices and foster a community. Our local one manages to do good business despite being in the city centre of one of the most expensive places in the country, based on that model.
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2019 12:47
|
|
|
Decided to stop listening to boardgame podcasts in the hope that ignorance would mean I buy less of them. Listened to the WW1 series that Hardcore History did, and now with a greater interest in WW1 as a setting am eyeing up Paths of Glory I can't believe I didn't see this coming.
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2019 14:01
|
|
|
Don’t read up on the great game or else you’d be tempted to get this particular game that includes a rug that a great many people here are hyped about. Speaking of, would getting Orleans deluxe coins be appropriate for Caylus at all? I’d like to make my copy more deluxe and they’re fuzzy euro games wrt history but still
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2019 14:32
|
|
|
The owner of a very popular FLGS in the Los Angeles area (Game Empire) says the biggest mistake that board game shops make is not having enough space to host a lot of events and not having the staff to arrange the events. That's how he makes his money. People come to play in the miniature/RPG/board game event and buy right there on the spot. Sure he knows he's losing money to online stores, but apparently he's doing pretty well with this model. The problem with cafe's is that they cater to pre-arranged groups. The likelihood of going to a cafe and just being able to pick up a group seems really low.
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2019 14:48
|
|
|
Chill la Chill posted:Don’t read up on the great game or else you’d be tempted to get this particular game that includes a rug that a great many people here are hyped about. Any mediaeval and vaguely French looking coins would do.
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2019 14:48
|
|
|
Reading this: http://www.18xx.net/1830/1830f.htm is restrictive/permissive the common language now or is it closed/open? (Tile replacement 1)Jedit posted:Any mediaeval and vaguely French looking coins would do. Ha I was actually looking into vague medieval looking coins for Caylus too. That’s what I was thinking. It would be different if it was pax Pamir and it used some anachronistic coinage but these are generic midweight Euros
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2019 15:30
|
|
|
The medieval period has stuff like an Christian Anglo-Saxon king making coins with "there is no God but Allah alone" in poorly written Arabic. I'm sure anything French looking would be fine.
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2019 15:31
|
|
|
I had a quick look, but can't delve into BGG at work. What is supposed to come with the next Root expansion (that is Kickstarting soon) that retcons/patches the original game? Was any of this addressed in the second printing of the base game?
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2019 15:37
|
|
|
golden bubble posted:The medieval period has stuff like an Christian Anglo-Saxon king making coins with "there is no God but Allah alone" in poorly written Arabic. I'm sure anything French looking would be fine. drat give me those instead
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2019 15:37
|
|
|
Indolent Bastard posted:I had a quick look, but can't delve into BGG at work. Third print will have updated stuff. There will be a cheap upgrade tier in the Kickstarter if you don’t want the expansion.
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2019 15:48
|
|
|
Bottom Liner posted:Third print will have updated stuff. There will be a cheap upgrade tier in the Kickstarter if you don’t want the expansion. Fiddlesticks. I take it the updates are listed on BGG? I will take a look. Thanks.
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2019 16:23
|
|
|
Mayveena posted:The owner of a very popular FLGS in the Los Angeles area (Game Empire) says the biggest mistake that board game shops make is not having enough space to host a lot of events and not having the staff to arrange the events. That's how he makes his money. People come to play in the miniature/RPG/board game event and buy right there on the spot. Sure he knows he's losing money to online stores, but apparently he's doing pretty well with this model. Taiwan's boardgame cafes are great. They charge $50nt/hour (like $1.66us) per person, have tons of games open on the shelves, and their staff knows how to play all of them, so they can just show you how to play whatever game you want. Most people go with a group, or have set rando meetups. They also sell snacks and drinks, as well as boardgames of course. I think there's usually some incentive, like half the amount you pay for your table can be used in paying for a boardgame that day, to help increase sales. The one I used to go to all the time has seven locations in Taipei now: https://www.cacacity.tw/
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2019 16:53
|
|
|
Indolent Bastard posted:Fiddlesticks. I take it the updates are listed on BGG? I will take a look. https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/2091456/towards-faction-parity
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2019 17:04
|
|
|
If I haven't purchased any root yet and I'm willing to be patient, what should my purchase plan be?
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2019 17:16
|
|
|
Wait a week for the new KS to launch and check the options.
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2019 17:18
|
|
|
Some Numbers posted:Wait a week for the new KS to launch and check the options. Will the new KS include the base game?
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2019 17:26
|
|
|
I can't be 100% sure, but they've been talking about a 3rd printing, which most likely be part of the KS. If it isn't, you can always order a copy from another website, but it would be an older printing.
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2019 17:46
|
|
|
Just got the email from Giochi, Age of Steam Deluxe is live. $64 plus shipping, add $14 if you want miniature wooden trains.
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2019 18:29
|
|
|
Some Numbers posted:I can't be 100% sure, but they've been talking about a 3rd printing, which most likely be part of the KS. "What if I still don’t have Root or Root: The Riverfolk Expansion? You will be able to purchase them as an addon in this campaign and we will make sure you can get one though it will not ship in two waves." I'm still pretty new to KS so aren't entirely sure why it not shipping in two waves is a bad thing (having to wait for all of it to be ready to ship which might cause delays?), but you should be able to get an updated copy along with the rest of it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2019 18:33
|
|
|
Redundant posted:From the FAQ's: They mean that it won't ship the base game and river folk to you earlier while you wait for the new expansion to get developed This could mean a big delay to play the game at all depending on how long the process takes Buck Wildman fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Mar 7, 2019 |
|
#
?
Mar 7, 2019 19:17
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 02:33 |
|
|
drat, that makes it sound like there won't be a tier with just base+Riverfolk.
|
|
#
?
Mar 8, 2019 00:06
|
|