World of Darkness Megathread: Curse of the Were-Poster

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Pope Guilty: Nov 6, 2006; The human animal is a beautiful and terrible creature, capable of limitless compassion and unfathomable cruelty.

Replace the clan flaw with Thin - Blood Insight but turned up a little, done.

# ? Mar 6, 2019 00:22

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# ? May 25, 2024 01:11

Mendrian: Jan 6, 2013

Ferrinus posted:

The best way to do Malkavians is to give them hard-to-manage psychic powers that give them hard to suppress mad prophet/ecstatic shaman vibes rather than by mandating each one flip the DSM-IV to a random page and then throw a dart at it.

I mean yeah this is basically what I'm talking about.

I don't think I've ever actually seen people do this in practice.

# ? Mar 6, 2019 00:31

Vox Valentine: May 31, 2013; Solving all of life's problems through enhanced casting of Occam's Razor. Reward yourself with an imaginary chalice.

The Malkavian strain of vampire has sensorial issues. The Embrace causes them to develop the ability to perceive things above the range of average human senses, letting them pick up colors they've never experienced or subtle olifactory cues they're not used to recognizing. Especially common is a sensitivity to electrical fields and being able to pick up on the presence of incorporeal things. The curse is threefold: they have no initial point of reference for these new inputs and these enhanced sensitivities never shut off. Newly Embraced Malkavians have to deal with a constant influx of sensory data they can only understand through the lenses of living memories and past emotions. As time goes on the Malkavian comes to understand what they're experiencing and start to gain affinities towards things their minds link to more positive emotions. The final part of the curse is that it feels good to know the background wiring of your grey matter and the temptation is always there to push the happy button. Dementation is less power born of madness and more power of having more processing power and new analytic software that you use to influence others through equal parts manipulation and wack-rear end undead blood mojo.

The Malkavian Embrace is not brain damage or being neurodivergent. It's like fully beating a series of puzzles in a game. Normally when you do, the new puzzles build on old puzzles while adding new mechanics. The Malkavian Embrace is like if the tutorials were off and the hint systems were disabled and you found out you were playing a game to begin with. You can now see the colors in white light that is ultraviolet, solve for X where X is what color the darkest shade of ultraviolet is and why it's most commonly emitted after 4 AM.

Or y'know so the Ordo Dracul claim. At the end of the day it's wack-rear end undead blood mojo, it ain't gonna let itself be so easily explained.

# ? Mar 6, 2019 00:35

Ferrinus: Jun 19, 2003; i'm finding this quite easy, i guess in part because i'm a fast type but also because i have a coherent mental model of the world

Mendrian posted:

I mean yeah this is basically what I'm talking about.

I don't think I've ever actually seen people do this in practice.

It occurs to me that some people posting now might never have seen this, so I'm going to relink the houseruled version of Malkavia my friends and I came up with for a years-ago Requiem game:

https://the-act-of-hubris.obsidianportal.com/wikis/malkavia-and-lucidity

quote:

MALKAVIA
Malkavia resembles synaesthesia, but affects cognition and understanding rather than sensory perception. Sufferers find themselves uncontrollably free-associating as they process their surroundings, interpreting totally prosaic events in highly metaphorical or symbolic terms. Incidental details such as the color of someone�s clothes or the sounds of nearby traffic seem pregnant with hidden meaning. For some, this manifests as intrusive thoughts or flashes of wordless insight, while others might experience full-blown hallucinations. The effect is disorienting and overwhelming, and sufferers often struggle to stay calm or communicate with others.

...

LUCIDITY
This Discipline allows a vampire to leverage and master the trance state that Malkavia brings on. Its powers can only be used by a vampire with active Malkavia.

# ? Mar 6, 2019 00:56

Digital Osmosis: Nov 10, 2002; Smile, Citizen! Happiness is Mandatory.

Mendrian posted:

That's all well and good but, even offense aside:

1.) How does the 'cartoonish' version of Dementation interact with modern sensibilities about mental health? How does Dementation affect someone with what we now think of as 'depression' or 'anxiety'? How does Dementation affect trauma? We now know people are not either 'mad' or 'sane', but rather are bundles of traumas and coping mechanisms that may or may not be damaging in day-to-day life. Someone with an addiction to their phone exists along the obsessive spectrum for instance, even though their behavior 'appears' perfectly normal.

2.) What about edge cases? Austism, aspergers? Developmental disorders? Are those 'madness'?

The problem isn't that Malkavians are offensive (they are) but rather the way the book handles mental health is so hopelessly outdated it doesn't even make sense to a modern audience.

I guess my argument is that for less important NPCs, let Dementation throw them into full blown Victorian hysteria or neurasthenia if the player wants that and the rules support that worldview. Like, seriously don't think "my Malk player just scared off this bouncer by triggering his PTSD he carries around from Gulf War 2," think "my Malk player just caused a hysterical fit in this bouncer." It's magic, the powers don't have to work according to modern medical paradigms.

For more important NPCs, yeah, do that thinking, because gently caress yeah you want your player to feel lovely that they gave someone a PTSD flashback just to get into a club they needed to get into.

For edge cases, things that are to some degree abnormal but don't fit into the Victorian paradigm, I'd personally side on letting the players sense and interact with them. Calling them "madness" can be offensive af but I'd do it because I personally tend to prefer empowering my players. So absolutely have them be able to tell that this one random guy heard god talk to him once, even if you know IRL that ~7% of humanity have had auditory hallucinations and said random guy was like "that was weird" and moved on after his episode. Sure, let the players sense someone with the slightest tinge of an autism spectrum disorder, or an unhealthy attachment but perhaps not full blown addiction to their smartphone. I'd make sure that my players understood that I disagreed with calling these things "madness" IRL, but like I also disagree with eating people IRL and you do that a lot in vampire games so shrug emoji. Otherwise you can simply be like "nah, Dementation only works with things roughly analogous to Victorian Madness, the magic simply sees someone on the spectrum as eccentric or whatever but not mad," that would seem to work as well if you found the other road too odious to go down, which is completely fair because it does kind of suck.

# ? Mar 6, 2019 01:18

Gerund: Sep 12, 2007; He push a man

gtrmp posted:

They lost the trademark as it relates to wrestling and related media; as far as I know, their trademarks as they relate to RPGs are unaffected.

They might think that and it might even be true but thats just another opportubity for a lawyer to get them to lose more of their IP challenging his interpretation while also having the guy promote Gangrel, The 100% Real And Legitimate Gangrel Shoots A Porno to fund the lawsuit.

But this is that same IP that was branded as having a Sexmurder edition by tatseful marketing geniuses so it probably does not matter.

# ? Mar 6, 2019 03:12

Metallia: Sep 17, 2014

A quick ask for the people who�ve played W20: which Gifts did you find most useful in your stories? I�m playing for the first time and having trouble deciding on which ones to prioritize first to most effectively do my job (Theurge).

I realize this is gonna be pretty subjective depending on the mood and what kind of game was being run, but any input would be helpful.

# ? Mar 6, 2019 07:56

NGDBSS: Dec 30, 2009

Metallia posted:

A quick ask for the people who�ve played W20: which Gifts did you find most useful in your stories? I�m playing for the first time and having trouble deciding on which ones to prioritize first to most effectively do my job (Theurge).

I realize this is gonna be pretty subjective depending on the mood and what kind of game was being run, but any input would be helpful.

At Rank 1 chargen Spirit Speech is absolutely essential for dealing with anything you might care about. Mother's Touch is also a powerful heal that works on nearly anyone (but you). I didn't find any of the Sense [Whatever] Gifts essential but YMMV. If you want to branch out, try grabbing Create Element and/or Control Simple Machine. Neither is on the Theurge list - Create Element is on the Metis list while CSM is for Glass Walkers - so you likely will have to pay out-of-clan costs. They're still worth it for 2 XP more for sheer wacky versatility.

If you're in one special camp of the Glass Walkers, you can actually pick up the most broken Gift in the game. It's not Theurge-specific but it's still so ridiculous that everyone who can take it should. And yes it's in W20. See, the Boli Zousizhe have the Rank 1 Gift Sheng-Nong's Eyes which does a few things at the cost of 1 Gnosis. First, it lets you blind-fight for the scene. Second, it removes offhand penalties for the scene. Third? It straight up gives you an extra action. There goes the balance of combat!

Beyond Rank 1 there's enough room to branch out that I can't make many hard recommendations. Command Spirit is obviously busted for being able to shut spirits down, and if you can find anything that lets you regenerate Gnosis that will be great for powering more Gifts or rituals at once. (I couldn't find anything myself but you might.) If you have access to Rage Across the Heavens, Unravel is a no-strings-attached divination which is loving rare across Gifts and rituals.

Source: Right now I'm playing a metis Glass Walker Theurge, so right away that's what colored things. Additionally we were basically allowed to shop across the books for whatever, so I and the other party Theurge are capable of some exceptionally bonkers results for rituals. Of course we still have to find someone to teach these things, and we need to invest the usual learning time. But having stuff like the Rite of the Sacred Fire and Om Habhava Dhi on hand means that summoning Celestine Avatars or chain-crafting Fetishes turns from arduous to routine. If you look around someone actually has a giant .doc file of all the WtA Gifts ever printed, so while it's ~200 pages long and a bear to load on anything that's not a full-fledged PC you can search for whatever and probably find it. I also have a file of rituals I put together, but that's mostly from Revised/20A and only has summaries. What book access do you have, anyway?

NGDBSS fucked around with this message at 10:24 on Mar 6, 2019

# ? Mar 6, 2019 10:12

Dawgstar: Jul 15, 2017

Metallia posted:

A quick ask for the people who�ve played W20: which Gifts did you find most useful in your stories? I�m playing for the first time and having trouble deciding on which ones to prioritize first to most effectively do my job (Theurge).

I realize this is gonna be pretty subjective depending on the mood and what kind of game was being run, but any input would be helpful.

Mother's Touch is always good. Even if you aren't the medic, it can really come in handy. Even if somebody else has it already.

# ? Mar 6, 2019 12:31

Mulva: Sep 13, 2011; It's about time for my once per decade ban for being a consistently terrible poster.

Considering you are werewolves, it's always a good time to remind that healing spells are some of the most horrific offensive abilities you can use against someone. It means that no matter how badly you hurt them it will never, ever stop. You can just make them better and keep going again.

# ? Mar 6, 2019 13:33

Metallia: Sep 17, 2014

NGDBSS posted:

What book access do you have, anyway?

Between the GM and I, we have all of the Apoc/W20 related books and she�s given permission to pull gifts from them. My character is a Metis Shadow Lord, so I ended up taking Spirit Speech, Shadow Weaving, and Create Element at CC.

The rest of this is all great advice, thank you. Our Galliard has Mother�s Touch but it definitely sounds like doubling on it is a good idea. I�ll look at rituals too.

# ? Mar 6, 2019 18:34

Dawgstar: Jul 15, 2017

Metallia posted:

Between the GM and I, we have all of the Apoc/W20 related books and she�s given permission to pull gifts from them. My character is a Metis Shadow Lord, so I ended up taking Spirit Speech, Shadow Weaving, and Create Element at CC.

The rest of this is all great advice, thank you. Our Galliard has Mother�s Touch but it definitely sounds like doubling on it is a good idea. I�ll look at rituals too.

Depending on how mean your ST is, do look at Talisman Dedication so you can keep everybody in clothing before and after they take Homid form.

# ? Mar 6, 2019 19:17

NGDBSS: Dec 30, 2009

Dawgstar posted:

Depending on how mean your ST is, do look at Talisman Dedication so you can keep everybody in clothing before and after they take Homid form.

Talisman Dedication is great, mean ST or not, for bringing along whatever common gear you use into the Umbra. There are several others I'd recommend for any Theurge:

Rite of Spirit Awakening gives you a target for other tools of spirit fuckery, including Gifts.
Rite of Summoning can summon nearly everything. But make sure you have a way to shove down difficulties before you go for the big scores.
Rite of Binding lets you make Talens or order around a spirit for lengthier tasks.
Rite of Cleansing will see use in any game that doesn't actively avoid the Wyrm.
Rite of the Fetish produces very powerful results but by default has a difficulty of 10 to cast. Without Wits/Rituals 5 you have no guarantee of using it successfully with just W20 core. (It is never worth it to burn a Gnosis dot to make it easier; that's a trap.) That said...
Om Habhava Dhi is a quickcast Stargazers ritual that gives -1 difficulty to Wits/Intelligence rolls, eg most things you care about with Mystic rituals.
Rite of the Sacred Fire is like that but loving crazier. It's a Rank 1 Uktena ritual that, so long as you maintain a sacred fire, gives -1 difficulty per 2 successes to other Mystic rituals or other rituals that deal with spirits. If you're working in a place that doesn't have industrial levels of Gauntlet you can probably get -2 to -4 difficulty.

Rite of Cleansing and Rite of Talisman Dedication is so useful for anyone, really, that even Garou with no other interest in rituals should give them consideration. And that list of summaries I have is here.

Also if you weren't already doing so, boost your Gnosis and Willpower as high as you can stomach. oWoD is just awful with XP arbitrage and it's so not worth it to buy those up later as opposed to boosting them now and having slightly fewer points in skills.

# ? Mar 6, 2019 19:50

Metallia: Sep 17, 2014

That rites gdoc is fantastic and exactly what I was looking for, thank you.

# ? Mar 6, 2019 23:24

NGDBSS: Dec 30, 2009

Metallia posted:

That rites gdoc is fantastic and exactly what I was looking for, thank you.

There are two major omissions in that list I consciously made. One is the Red Talons tribebook, because they're known for taking to heart the fascist end of ecoterrorism and I was wary about dealing with them even if the book happens to have some nuance. I haven't read the book myself, so if someone else can confirm that it's not so bad then I might look through it after all.

The other is the Children of Gaia tribebook, because holy poo poo is that a magical realm. :barf:

Also the aforementioned Om Habhava Dhi is one of the Stargazers Mantras. They and the Stargazers Yogas all have pithy names to them but they're grouped under those banners.

# ? Mar 6, 2019 23:48

Loomer: Dec 19, 2007; A Very Special Hell

I recall being annoyed at the RT tribebook but that's mostly because it wasn't a great one to try and square with my methodology. I can't comment on the gifts though since I tend to skim over the mechanics chapters as they aren't particularly useful to me.

# ? Mar 6, 2019 23:52

Dawgstar: Jul 15, 2017

NGDBSS posted:

There are two major omissions in that list I consciously made. One is the Red Talons tribebook, because they're known for taking to heart the fascist end of ecoterrorism and I was wary about dealing with them even if the book happens to have some nuance. I haven't read the book myself, so if someone else can confirm that it's not so bad then I might look through it after all.

Sadly what keeps me from going back to read the Talons book is it was written by... Matt McFarland.

# ? Mar 7, 2019 02:26

Kurieg: Jul 19, 2012; RIP Lutri: 5/19/20-4/2/20

Dawgstar posted:

Sadly what keeps me from going back to read the Talons book is it was written by... Matt McFarland.

....

I suddenly feel more unclean.

Also the CoG book being referenced reminded me of the leatherdaddy werewolf sex dungeon and garou shooting up with 2-liters full of heroin.

Kurieg fucked around with this message at 06:19 on Mar 7, 2019

# ? Mar 7, 2019 06:06

Rand Brittain: Mar 25, 2013; "Go on until you're stopped."

I think you might have to get used to that reaction or give up World of Darkness entirely because I'm pretty sure his name is on like 50% of it in some capacity, and probably 75% of the last five years or so.

# ? Mar 7, 2019 06:32

Kurieg: Jul 19, 2012; RIP Lutri: 5/19/20-4/2/20

It's more that I used to sort of like it for portraying the Red Talons as absolutely hosed in the head and internally contradictory to the point of self destruction.

I just hate that the rapist used to write good things.

# ? Mar 7, 2019 06:42

MonsieurChoc: Oct 12, 2013; Every species can smell its own extinction.

Kurieg posted:

It's more that I used to sort of like it for portraying the Red Talons as absolutely hosed in the head and internally contradictory to the point of self destruction.

I just hate that the rapist used to write good things.

That's how I feel about Marion Zimmer Bradley.

Her books were a part of my childhood.

# ? Mar 7, 2019 06:50

Dawgstar: Jul 15, 2017

Kurieg posted:

It's more that I used to sort of like it for portraying the Red Talons as absolutely hosed in the head and internally contradictory to the point of self destruction.

I just hate that the rapist used to write good things.

He wrote Rokea, too, which is also a book I really liked at the time.

That does mean Matt is responsible for their perpetual state of horniness when they're on land and giving them a bonus to buy Appearance up to 3 so they can use Animal Attraction the same as any other Fera, though.

:smith:

Heck, he's even responsible for the opening fiction on the shifter enemy book for Hunter, where a werecougar uses the good ol' AA to knock boots with Bookworm55's girlfriend. She described it as "rough yet pure."

# ? Mar 7, 2019 13:41

Kurieg: Jul 19, 2012; RIP Lutri: 5/19/20-4/2/20

I am profoundly happy that heirs to hell is completely free of his unique brand of scum, because the alternative is particularly disgusting.

# ? Mar 7, 2019 14:00

Sion: Oct 16, 2004; "I'm the boss of space. That's plenty."

Quick question about V5: Is there anything anywhere about how the world squared the Gehenna circle or did the end of the world just not really happen?

# ? Mar 7, 2019 17:02

Mulva: Sep 13, 2011; It's about time for my once per decade ban for being a consistently terrible poster.

*waves hand*

It's a metaphor

# ? Mar 7, 2019 17:06

Sion: Oct 16, 2004; "I'm the boss of space. That's plenty."

Mulva posted:

*waves hand*

It's a metaphor

urgghghgghhhhhhh

# ? Mar 7, 2019 17:11

Mors Rattus: Oct 25, 2007; FATAL & Friends
Walls of Text
#1 Builder
2014-2018

jesus comes down, taps his watch, vaporizes three vampires and then goes home

# ? Mar 7, 2019 17:20

Sion: Oct 16, 2004; "I'm the boss of space. That's plenty."

Mors Rattus posted:

jesus comes down, taps his watch, vaporizes three vampires and then goes home

Honestly, with world of darkness, this could actually be the answer.

# ? Mar 7, 2019 17:32

Tricky Dick Nixon: Jul 26, 2010; by Nyc_Tattoo

Mors Rattus posted:

jesus comes down, taps his watch, vaporizes three vampires and then goes home

# ? Mar 7, 2019 17:32

nofather: Aug 15, 2014

Sion posted:

Quick question about V5: Is there anything anywhere about how the world squared the Gehenna circle or did the end of the world just not really happen?

It didn't happen.

The continuation seems to be based off a couple books before the actual end. The end of the world was just something vampires were really worried was going to happen, but like Y2k and the Mayan Apocalypse of 2012, or Dark Ages, it's just something they sometimes worry about happening soon but never really does.

Obviously no idea how they're going to do it with other gamelines. Saying the end of the world is just a fear everyone has that will never manifest seems to go against the grain of Apocalypse.

# ? Mar 7, 2019 18:33

Warthur: May 2, 2004

nofather posted:

It didn't happen.

The continuation seems to be based off a couple books before the actual end. The end of the world was just something vampires were really worried was going to happen, but like Y2k and the Mayan Apocalypse of 2012, or Dark Ages, it's just something they sometimes worry about happening soon but never really does.

Obviously no idea how they're going to do it with other gamelines. Saying the end of the world is just a fear everyone has that will never manifest seems to go against the grain of Apocalypse.

Plus wasn't the premise of Mage Revised that "The Ascension War is basically won and the Technocracy came out on top"?

# ? Mar 7, 2019 18:47

Jonas Albrecht: Jun 7, 2012

Since the 90's, WtA's ticking clock has gotten quaint. Pentex bulldozing the rainforest so they can run Amazon-but-for-basic-needs from the Moon is downright fanciful vs oligarchs blighting the land for internet coins.

# ? Mar 7, 2019 18:48

Pope Guilty: Nov 6, 2006; The human animal is a beautiful and terrible creature, capable of limitless compassion and unfathomable cruelty.

Warthur posted:

Plus wasn't the premise of Mage Revised that "The Ascension War is basically won and the Technocracy came out on top"?

No, both sides lost. Humanity picked mediocrity over either.

# ? Mar 7, 2019 19:14

Warthur: May 2, 2004

Pope Guilty posted:

No, both sides lost. Humanity picked mediocrity over either.

Arguably a Technocracy win still if you're sceptical about how serious the Technocracy actually was about the mass Ascension of humanity vs. Technomancy as means of power and control.

# ? Mar 7, 2019 19:23

ProfessorCirno: Feb 17, 2011; The strongest! The smartest!
The rightest!

Jonas Albrecht posted:

Since the 90's, WtA's ticking clock has gotten quaint. Pentex bulldozing the rainforest so they can run Amazon-but-for-basic-needs from the Moon is downright fanciful vs oligarchs blighting the land for internet coins.

Pretty much all games and media about "the future" fail because, in order to generate interest, they need the future to look cool and interesting, and not the dumbest loving thing that could've happened every goddamn time. Sadly we're in the reality where it is, in fact, the dumbest loving thing that could've happened every goddamn time.

EDIT: I'm reminded of Shadowrun thinking our dystopic internet would be about HACKING YOUR LIFE and using sick decks to connect to the corporate website and set up turrets and all that, and naw, this is the future where "hacking" is yelling into someone's mailslot to get Alexa to unlock the door for you.

ProfessorCirno fucked around with this message at 20:49 on Mar 7, 2019

# ? Mar 7, 2019 20:40

Ferrinus: Jun 19, 2003; i'm finding this quite easy, i guess in part because i'm a fast type but also because i have a coherent mental model of the world

Warthur posted:

Plus wasn't the premise of Mage Revised that "The Ascension War is basically won and the Technocracy came out on top"?

It was, although this is analogous to the way that history ended in the 90s.

# ? Mar 7, 2019 20:43

Mors Rattus: Oct 25, 2007; FATAL & Friends
Walls of Text
#1 Builder
2014-2018

ProfessorCirno posted:

Pretty much all games and media about "the future" fail because, in order to generate interest, they need the future to look cool and interesting, and not the dumbest loving thing that could've happened every goddamn time. Sadly we're in the reality where it is, in fact, the dumbest loving thing that could've happened every goddamn time.

EDIT: I'm reminded of Shadowrun thinking our dystopic internet would be about HACKING YOUR LIFE and using sick decks to connect to the corporate website and set up turrets and all that, and naw, this is the future where "hacking" is yelling into someone's mailslot to get Alexa to unlock the door for you.

the most accurate cyberpunk future continues to be Megaman Battle Network

# ? Mar 7, 2019 21:05

Kurieg: Jul 19, 2012; RIP Lutri: 5/19/20-4/2/20

ProfessorCirno posted:

EDIT: I'm reminded of Shadowrun thinking our dystopic internet would be about HACKING YOUR LIFE and using sick decks to connect to the corporate website and set up turrets and all that, and naw, this is the future where "hacking" is yelling into someone's mailslot to get Alexa to unlock the door for you.

I've trained my google home to my voice but it still tries to answer whenever an idiot on youtube yells at google for something or other.

# ? Mar 7, 2019 21:08

nofather: Aug 15, 2014

The map for the Stygia in the Shadowlands in Wraith recently became available and I'm kind of curious. I thought the dead world was basically like the real world, but ghosts. There's supposed to be buildings and everything, and if I recall correctly there was an Atlanta supplement for Wraith. But this map doesn't really parallel the real world very well at first glance. Maybe New York?

Are the Shadowlands a parallel, or is it mostly a mishmash of everything on some fantasy island(s)? Also, does this mean if you die in Atlanta, then your neighbor dies next door in Atlanta, you are potentially on opposite sides of the Shadowlands, or at least far apart?

Apologies for the shift, this is DTRPG's image.

# ? Mar 7, 2019 22:14

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# ? May 25, 2024 01:11

Loomer: Dec 19, 2007; A Very Special Hell

Stygia is basically the next level down in the Underworld, rather than the Shadowlands proper.

# ? Mar 7, 2019 22:16

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > World of Darkness Megathread: Curse of the Were-Poster

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