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uninterrupted posted:It’s actually completely accurate. So your position is that: 1. There's some way to objectively enumerate evil. 2. That that enumeration is the sole criterion on which countries can be judged. And 3. That a country's historical evil quotient is relevant to determining it's present behaviour, even after multiple regime changes.
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Mar 7, 2019 23:40
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drilldo squirt posted:No, those things are bad, but the world isn't black and white and Russia is way more gray than the US. 'the world isn't black and white and that's why I'm saying russia is objectively most evil'
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Mar 7, 2019 23:41
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drilldo squirt posted:Also Venezuela is run by fake socialists. They are only looting right, now not helping people. Venezuela’s going through a famine and trying to keep food aid coming. The US-backed opposition is trying to starve Venezuelans to death and attempting to smuggle in death squads who want to murder innocent Venezuelan who support their democratically elected government. Trump and his puppet Guaido are an order of magnitude worse for the world than Maduro, and ironically enough I don’t think that was controversial until rich Venezuelan expats realized there was a chance to massacre all the people who stole their family golf courses.
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Mar 7, 2019 23:41
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Keeshhound posted:So your position is that: there aren't specific measurements or anything but "has used nuclear weapons and committed genocide" is generally a pretty good barometer
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Mar 7, 2019 23:44
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uninterrupted posted:Venezuela’s going through a famine and trying to keep food aid coming. quote:Venezuela’s going through a famine and trying to keep food aid coming. quote:Venezuela’s going through a famine and trying to keep food aid coming. quote:trying to keep food aid coming. God 
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Mar 7, 2019 23:45
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Keeshhound posted:So your position is that: Hm, yes, the future is unknowable, life is a mystery, past actions have never predicted future ones. I swear the pro-coup folks would let a pedophile babysit their kid (well, if they believed anything they were saying and weren’t just inventing cover for another bloodbath of US regime change).
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Mar 7, 2019 23:46
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drilldo squirt posted:No, those things are bad, but the world isn't black and white and Russia is way more gray than the US. No, you have a child's view of the US, where you see it as some parent figure, but, doggone it just sometimes makes mistakes but at the end of the day fights for truth justice and liberty. You don't look at what the US is and has done because its formed connection in your brain that insist its noble in cause, and it doesn't allow those strong connections to be challenged in the slightest. Cambodia alone should have brought Nixon and Kissinger before the Hague. brugroffil posted:you left out Mexico and American Indian genocide I have to make the cut off somewhere or I'd be here all day!
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Mar 7, 2019 23:52
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CYBEReris posted:there aren't specific measurements or anything but "has used nuclear weapons and committed genocide" is generally a pretty good barometer Since Venezuela has neither detonated nukes nor committed any genocides in the past 100 years, can we stop talking about whether Russia, China, and the US have higher bodycounts, please? Also a country-wide power outage also seems like a pretty good way to stop people from accessing YouTube. You can't even VPN your way around that. Can't control the minds of the people if they can't see your subliminal messages in YT ads. Checkmate, CIA!!
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Mar 7, 2019 23:53
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Since you didn't get the memo, Maduro blocking humanitarian aid is 90% propaganda.
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Mar 7, 2019 23:56
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Conspiratiorist posted:Since you didn't get the memo, Maduro blocking humanitarian aid is 90% propaganda. Um excuse me Maduro is blocking precious shipments of spikes, barbed wire, Molotov cocktails, and but for the grace of the few sane people in Columbia, reactionary militias.
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Mar 7, 2019 23:59
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You can't expect him to remember the last page.
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Mar 8, 2019 00:04
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Tom Guycot posted:No, you have a child's view of the US, where you see it as some parent figure, but, doggone it just sometimes makes mistakes but at the end of the day fights for truth justice and liberty. You don't look at what the US is and has done because its formed connection in your brain that insist its noble in cause, and it doesn't allow those strong connections to be challenged in the slightest. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Mar 8, 2019 00:06
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This thread is really good to me.
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Mar 8, 2019 00:08
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Its pretty impressive how easily forgotten Maduro's 'there is no famine or health crisis, lets block all humanitarian aid attempts even as surrounding countries get flooded with starving and sick refugees' stance from before 2018 is. Years upon years of denial that culminated in a refugee crisis.
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Mar 8, 2019 00:34
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If you want to try and rank the imperialisms of the US, Russia, and China over the last 100 years then it's not fair to also leave out the UK.
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Mar 8, 2019 01:01
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Why don't you tiresome fucks go argue about how evil the US is in the multiple threads around here that exist to discuss the US, goddamn. Or even in C-SPAM where you can get a hand job for saying it. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Mar 8, 2019 01:25
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AGGGGH BEES posted:Why don't you tiresome fucks go argue about how evil the US is in the multiple threads around here that exist to discuss the US, goddamn. because it's topical to this thread since the US is actively trying to instigate regime change by starving the people of venezuela. why do the pro-guaido people constantly demand the US not ever be mentioned despite being a huge player in the current venezuelan situation? oh right, cause it makes it hard to slobber over guaido when people keep reminding you he's a US puppet
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Mar 8, 2019 01:46
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The blackout is still happening. I got one message from one of my aunts a few minutes ago saying that cell service was also out, and that "I just got WhatsApp back but I don't know how". I messaged her back but the message didn't get sent to her, which means that she's out of the network again. Dylan Baddour is reporting a similar thing here: https://twitter.com/DylanBaddour/status/1103820903941619712 The message reads "Things are getting complicated here. The [hospital name] in Caracas doesn't have power, the patients are going to start having problems!! I don't like this at all", and the second message reads "Our cell phone batteries are running out" He also quoted this tweet from Maduro which has since been deleted. https://twitter.com/DylanBaddour/status/1103821688272232449 Maduro posted this tweet. It's not clear if it's the same one that Dylan quoted but is now unavailable, or if its a new one: https://twitter.com/NicolasMaduro/status/1103822286422003713 "The electrical war that was announced and is being directed by U.S. imperialism against our people will be defeated. No one and nothing will defeat the people of Bolivar and Chavez. Patriots, have maximum unity!" EDIT: This is how my aunt ended the short message that got through to me: "Si alguna vez te llega esta vaina ya sabes que todo el pais esta incomunicado..." ("If you ever get this message you'll know that the whole country is cut off...") Chuck Boone fucked around with this message at 02:18 on Mar 8, 2019 |
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Mar 8, 2019 02:06
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Christ.
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Mar 8, 2019 02:08
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to acknowledge america is to acknowledge that maduro could be seen as a credible form of resistance to american imperialism by the people of venezuela... so the intellectually incurious caraciture of him being a slavering genocidal boogie-man is no longer the cheap play they can fall back on. there looms a far greater spectre gun-ship of death over this now, casting it's grisly shadow. to acknowledge that this is now a cold war of some fashion between two nation states... cuz let's be honest, guai from best buy and two hundred mercenaries ain't a popular uprising... also renders the entire op moot, cuz none of that poo poo matters now. all that effort-posting, like tears in the rain. hallucinatory crusaders of idealized 'freedom' to evacuate craters of realpolitik, same as it ever was.
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Mar 8, 2019 02:25
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Condiv posted:because it's topical to this thread since the US is actively trying to instigate regime change by starving the people of venezuela. Why do you think he's a US puppet? What exactly leads to that conclusion?
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Mar 8, 2019 02:28
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Keeshhound posted:Christ. You flippantly disregarded my question before, but I would still like an answer as to why you brought up the role of "Russia" in World War II. Nobody had brought it up before, so it seems very strange to me. Why did you specifically single out the Soviet Union's role in WWII for criticism? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Mar 8, 2019 02:32
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Algund Eenboom posted:You flippantly disregarded my question before, but I would still like an answer as to why you brought up the role of "Russia" in World War II. Nobody had brought it up before, so it seems very strange to me. Why did you specifically single out the Soviet Union's role in WWII for criticism? Against my better judgement: quote:
I was calling attention specifically to the behaviors that Russia engaged in during WW2 because it served as a counterpoint to the idea that the US was somehow uniquely comparatively immoral for the last 100 years. As other people have pointed out, the question of which superpower is the biggest monster is not actually relevant to the discussion of what is currently happening in Venuzuela, so I will not address this further.
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Mar 8, 2019 02:38
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Pharohman777 posted:Why do you think he's a US puppet? What exactly leads to that conclusion? Because he said he admires trump and because Pence told him to declare himself president the day before he did and that entire article about how he promised Pence half the officers would side with him and the whole popularity tour he’s been doing of the rest of the world because Venezuelans don’t support them? gently caress read the thread.
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Mar 8, 2019 02:44
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Minister of Communication Jorge Rodriguez just added some detail to the government's version of events. Rodriguez said the blackout is being caused by "technical and cybernetic" attack against the country's electrical grid.
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Mar 8, 2019 02:47
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The Venezuelan left was correct to seize power when it had the chance.
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Mar 8, 2019 02:49
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To bad a class traitor took control and made it all fashy.
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Mar 8, 2019 02:54
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Pharohman777 posted:Why do you think he's a US puppet? What exactly leads to that conclusion? are you serious? him announcing that he's the actual president of venezuela followed by the trump administration saying they recognize him as the actual president of venezuela 2 seconds later is hint number 1. him touching base regularly with the trump administration while said administration is in the middle of intentionally starving his people is hint number 2. but i'm pretty sure we've been over this before so i think you're just being obtuse
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Mar 8, 2019 02:54
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Also why are we assuming a US attack on their infrastructure is crazy? The US has done it before, and it dovetails with their plan of starving Venezuela into accepting Venezuelan Chalabi. As has been mentioned, blackouts are common but not to this extent.
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Mar 8, 2019 02:57
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uninterrupted posted:Also why are we assuming a US attack on their infrastructure is crazy? The US has done it before, and it dovetails with their plan of starving Venezuela into accepting Venezuelan Chalabi. i think it's conceivable if unlikely but do not consider venezuelan central government statements to add one single iota of credibility to the proposition
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Mar 8, 2019 03:00
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There's been at least a dozen nationwide blackouts in the last few years and the PSUV has always blamed sabotage/the US/Colombia/the opposition for them. This is exactly how this always plays out. Tomorrow they'll show pictures of a couple of wires dangling out of an electrical panel at the Guri dam as evidence that the Navy SEAL strike team was there; TeleSur will run with it, Ben Norton will tweet about it, and that'll be that.
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Mar 8, 2019 03:03
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Condiv posted:are you serious? him announcing that he's the actual president of venezuela followed by the trump administration saying they recognize him as the actual president of venezuela 2 seconds later is hint number 1. him touching base regularly with the trump administration while said administration is in the middle of intentionally starving his people is hint number 2. but i'm pretty sure we've been over this before so i think you're just being obtuse So diplomatic niceties done quickly are proof of being a puppet? And aren't the sanctions gonna be lifted when Maduro's government leaves power? Maduro and his cronies deciding to shoot protesters a few years back and then start putting up Venezuelan resources up as loan collateral are what triggered the various sanctions. And the national assembly did not like those loans Maduro was taking out one bit, and started writing letters to banks and such. And this was in the middle of maduro neutering the national assembly via the courts.
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Mar 8, 2019 03:03
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I'm just curious; can anyone describe the mechanism by which the US sanctions are causing the starvation in Venezuela? Because the text of the sanctions are publicly available, so I would expect that people willing to so confidently declare that the US' sanctions are responsible for the current food situation would be able to point out the specific sanctions that are causing the crisis.
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Mar 8, 2019 03:04
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Keeshhound posted:I'm just curious; can anyone describe the mechanism by which the US sanctions are causing the starvation in Venezuela? Because the text of the sanctions are publicly available, so I would expect that people willing to so confidently declare that the US' sanctions are responsible for the current food situation would be able to point out the specific sanctions that are causing the crisis. the new ones are gonna really fuckin' suck because they're hitting the fundamental ability to sell oil through the PDVSA, which means that insofar as the government / government-controlled hilariously corrupt currency exchange were able to import food already, it's gonna get a lot tighter
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Mar 8, 2019 03:14
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Party Plane Jones posted:
if y'all can't out of the weeds the penalties for posting like poo poo are going to increase drastically, per bad post
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Mar 8, 2019 03:17
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in an effort to get us out of the weeds any post not specifically about Venezuela is going to get probated. you can, for example:
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Keeshhound posted:I'm just curious; can anyone describe the mechanism by which the US sanctions are causing the starvation in Venezuela? Because the text of the sanctions are publicly available, so I would expect that people willing to so confidently declare that the US' sanctions are responsible for the current food situation would be able to point out the specific sanctions that are causing the crisis. US sanctions are finite and non zero.
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Mar 8, 2019 03:22
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The governor of Bolivar state just released a video of himself out for a stroll wearing a bulletproof vest, as one does: https://twitter.com/CarlosSuniagaG/status/1103840109982556162 Noguera: Good evening, Venezuela! Today, March 7--it's 8:50 PM. The night is beautiful, calm, fresh. There's a lot of peace. We're at the Karimanparu (sp?) crossing on the border with Brazil. This is where our homeland is born [this is a PSUV slogan about Bolivar state]. The National Guard is guarding the border. Our army. The Militia. I want to tell the people that the border is completely normal. There's nothing new with the service [sic]. We're checking out the installations, supporting our Guards, or soldiers. I want to congratulate them for their excellent work. The homeland is born here. Chavez lives! EDIT: Here's some idea of how derelict the electrical system in Venezuela is: it's so bad that in 2010 Chavez declared an "electrical emergency" in Venezuela in order to speed up the process of repairing and modernizing the country's electrical grid. EDIT 2: Approaching 6.5 hours without electricity. I haven't seen any reports of any power restored anywhere. https://twitter.com/STHGibbs/status/1103811488505102336 EDIT 3: We're at the seven hour mark for the blackout. I'm quite sure this is the largest, longest blackout in the history of the country. All of Venezuela is still without electricity. Cell phone service is also out still. Some shots of people getting about in the dark: https://twitter.com/ElyangelicaNews/status/1103861472743092224 https://twitter.com/maryorinmendez/status/1103850424883470337 I'd be extremely surprised if every hospital in the country had enough diesel on hand to run their backup generators for 7 hours. Chuck Boone fucked around with this message at 05:03 on Mar 8, 2019 |
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Mar 8, 2019 03:24
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What is the power network actually like in Venezuela that you get a nation-scale blackout? That's downright impressive. And yes, hospitals become the first crisis point for power loss. Refrigeration becomes a problem over the next 12 hours or so, depending on backups and exposure.
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Mar 8, 2019 05:28
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Most of the country's energy comes from the Guri hydroelectric plant. CORPOELEC said earlier that the failure was at Guri. I'm guessing that it was a catastrophic failure, and that the rest of the grid is in such sorry state that none of the backup generation systems were able to come online. EDIT: I'm not gonna be able to sleep tonight. How many people are dying/have died because of this so far? What if you're a chemo patient and you have to keep your medicine refrigerated? Or if your water broke, or you've just sliced your head open because you fell on the pavement on account of it being dark? What if you were just settling into the dialysis machine when the lights went off? The scale of the misery that people are feeling right this second because of this blackout is unfathomable. Chuck Boone fucked around with this message at 05:33 on Mar 8, 2019 |
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Mar 8, 2019 05:29
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I feel you. It's a tenth the scale, but Puerto Rico had one working operating room after Maria. The harms caused by this sort of support collapse are difficult to measure.
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Mar 8, 2019 05:43
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