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Is it normal for NDA to cover things like client identities? Like, I'm working for company X and we make website for company Y, and in some future job interview I can say that I made website using this framework and that library, but I can't say it was for company Y and give link to site. That strikes me as kinda weird.
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Feb 27, 2019 17:02
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It's uncommon, but not weird. Say you were working on a website that showcased a yet-to-be-announced secret product, it's reasonable to NDA you about the website, albeit only until that announcement is made.
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Feb 27, 2019 17:40
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That kind of thing goes on in consulting quite a bit, I usually frame it as "I made [thing] for a Fortune 100 company in the widget sector" or "I made [thing] for a local startup, sort of like Uber for llamas" or some other description of the company that doesn't directly name them.
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Feb 27, 2019 18:01
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Had an over-enthusiastic interviewee get so excited to talk up his awesome previous project for an actual company (that he couldn't describe the front-end framework, the server framework, or the SQL interactions for) that he offered to zip up the source and send it to us after the interview.
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Feb 27, 2019 22:38
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Cuntpunch posted:Had an over-enthusiastic interviewee get so excited to talk up his awesome previous project for an actual company (that he couldn't describe the front-end framework, the server framework, or the SQL interactions for) that he offered to zip up the source and send it to us after the interview. That’s an interesting way for someone to write their own rejection letter.
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Feb 28, 2019 02:54
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Yikes, should it be this hard to get a recruiter to say "yes, paying you about as much as you get now is in the range for this position" once I've talked to the hiring manager but before any real screens or an on-site? All I got was a base pay estimate (not terrible) and a bonus target (worse than current), but I receive 20%+ of my base pay in other incentives so who knows if that's flat or a big cut or what. When I stated that piece of information, things really took a turn and I started getting treated like I was asking a bazillion dollars. I never got any additional information, and was sniped at for being too motivated by compensation. Uh sorry duder I've got kids and a job and don't want to spend time interviewing for a possible 25% pay cut. Could be that I'm overpaid for my market but I'm not gonna take one recruiter's word for that.
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Feb 28, 2019 02:55
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YanniRotten posted:Yikes, should it be this hard to get a recruiter to say "yes, paying you about as much as you get now is in the range for this position" once I've talked to the hiring manager but before any real screens or an on-site? All I got was a base pay estimate (not terrible) and a bonus target (worse than current), but I receive 20%+ of my base pay in other incentives so who knows if that's flat or a big cut or what. Tell them you'll consider the job if they split their commission with you. When they balk at that tell them they're being too motivated by compensation. Then 
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Feb 28, 2019 02:59
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Jose Valasquez posted:Tell them you'll consider the job if they split their commission with you. When they balk at that tell them they're being too motivated by compensation. It’s an internal recruiter so I don’t even know wtf he’s doing. I assume I’m not doing anything very unusual as an applicant for a senior role, I don’t need to pre-negotiate an offer before getting quizzed on FizzBuzz but I want a vague assurance that they can produce a workable offer before I go throw myself into their interview process.
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Feb 28, 2019 03:13
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Only those that pay below market price say you shouldn't be focused on remuneration.
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Feb 28, 2019 03:30
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Anybody who goes down the line of "You shouldn't be motivated by compensation" is an immediate hard pass. Ghost them and move on, they are not worth your time.
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Feb 28, 2019 10:33
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My former boss at this company used the phrase, "you really think you're worth that much?" with a skeptical look in his eyes, during negotiation before I was hired. My response was, "Absolutely," (the only good response to a question like that) but I didn't really appreciate getting negged. It's one of many negotiation tactics that these people have in their repertoires, and it's one of the less palatable ones, but at least it wasn't an outright lie. Ultimately their offer was okay.
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Feb 28, 2019 22:22
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Xik posted:Only those that pay below market price say you shouldn't be focused on remuneration. This is very true. They have a spreadsheet of how much the rest of the market is paying, and they've picked a number like "we'll pay 60% of market rate". A smart company underpays by selling you on something else (saving the world, hitting the IPO lottery, etc), so this company sounds cheap and stupid.
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Mar 1, 2019 03:59
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drat near everyone IME will tell you "we target the upper end of the market rate" but nobody will tell you what the market rate is. Hell, for all I know they can't without violating the contract they have with whichever company does the market research for them.
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Mar 1, 2019 05:01
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I worked for a company that told us that. "We're competitive in our market," they said. They never told us what that market was. Their floor? Meanwhile every programmer that left found a new job at +30k. I'm now working for a new company, in the same building, at +30k.
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Mar 1, 2019 05:14
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Glad y'all are talking about negotations still. here's the situation with seattle company. i told them my current salary (104k + ~5k annual bonus) the recruiter said out loud they're planning on 120-125k for me. This is where I got the 20% value from my celebratory post. But i haven't gotten an actual offer yet nor confirmed details on things like insurance. Recruiter says things are tied up with the COO signing off, but not to be concerned at all. I'm hoping to get up to at least 130k if insurance coverage is anything less than "we pay for eevvverrryyything". I'm supposed to hear back tomorrow, we'll see how it goes.
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Mar 1, 2019 06:08
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My last place had consistent salary banding across the entire organization. Bands were signified by letters and had a corresponding overlapping salary range. So you'd be told the corresponding band, the range of the band (eg: $X to $Y) and your position in range (80% - 120% min/max). When internal positions opened up they would provide the band so you'd know roughly what the salary range is. It also means that outside of contractors, you basically knew what everyone earned within some margin. At yearly performance review you could make the case for moving up within the same band in addition to the standard 2/3% or whatever. Like say when you were hired you had zero or little experience in the role, you may have been placed at the "bottom of the band" (~80%), but as you gain experience (and institutional knowledge) you'd go up. The banding was kept up to date and provided by a third party "job evaluation and remuneration provider". It was all transparent and the provider is well known in the country to be legit. I think the system is overall very positive, there were a few flaws, but these were mostly due to the culture of the place, not necessary with the banding system.
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Mar 1, 2019 06:22
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Careful Drums posted:Glad y'all are talking about negotations still. here's the situation with seattle company. For my own oldie anecdote: I recently changed jobs after 6.5 years at the last job, and I feel like I'm picking up things so slowly. Ugh. I miss being knowledgeable and having the ability to actually help others. Now I'm just trying to figure out how things work in many dimensions (the business, the stack, the politics). Ah well, I'm fairly certain I'm not completely blowing it and I'm confident I can get comfortable with time... The transition period is annoying, though.
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Mar 5, 2019 12:41
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genki posted:I caught up on two months of posts in this thread and now I really need to know how this turned out... haha. things are still in a holding pattern - i'll be sure to update when things are final. the recruiter did call me yesterday to confirm the holdup is only because the COO is on vaca and his sign-off is required before moving forward. sorry your transition is a slog, i hope things improve soon!
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Mar 5, 2019 22:24
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Alright thread, I had a great interview last week and I've been scheduled to receive an offer later this week (yay) for a Senior Software Engineer position in my current city of Seattle. I don't have the details yet, but I am trying to prepare myself ahead of time with some market research. I've been checking out information on Glassdoor, Payscale, etc and they seem to spit out different information with quite a big range and standard deviation around the median. Median base salary seems to be around 140-145k on both, but plus or minus like 50k. Also they don't seem to handle and compare additional comp like bonuses, RSUs, or various matching/reimbursement schemes very well. This is at a medium size public company, and while I have a casual understanding of RSUs and stock options, I've never worked at a public company before so that will be a new consideration. Early on I told them I'm targeting 170 base, but that any decision really depends on the total comp package. We'll see what they come out the gate with. Any suggestions for some good sources, especially for the Seattle area in particular. Due to being a tech hub and HCOL, national averages or even regional averages outside the urban area are laughable. I'm already currently employed in a pretty decent situation, so this isn't a make-or-break deal but I am very interested in this as a lifestyle improvement. Looking to aim high, within reason. Worst case I might be able to leverage an offer with my current employer, but TBH I'm ready for a change for more reasons than just money. Guinness fucked around with this message at 23:12 on Mar 5, 2019 |
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Mar 5, 2019 23:03
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Levels.fyi and Paysa seem far more reliable for total compensation than Glassdoor. If it's public I would focus on total comp and not a specific salary.
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Mar 6, 2019 00:10
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Welp, offer came through and it's real good. Might go back and forth a little bit, but I think this is happening. Going to be lollers going to my current boss and when he inevitably asks how much it'd take to keep me and I say 75k to even begin entertaining the possibility (not gonna happen). The market for senior devs right now is bananas.
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Mar 7, 2019 22:43
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Got an offer for $115 in Chicago, which would mean relocating. It is a fully open plan office, not even cubicles. Kind of looks like a cafeteria but with some seriously nice monitors. Unfortunately, the position is for a different one than I applied for. While I'd get to work with some technologies I'd like to get more experience with, they aren't the tech that is most likely to let me work from home, which is my long term goal. I know I don't want to stay where I am (I'm not learning anything here and I'm underutilized), but I'm not sure if I want to take the offer or keep looking when its been 3 months since I started applying. It's going to be hard to decide between relocating for an incremental step towards where I want to be and staying pat in hopes of finding something either closer to home or a better fit for my long term career goals.
LLSix fucked around with this message at 03:04 on Mar 8, 2019 |
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Mar 8, 2019 01:41
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How does the job market in Chicago compare to where you are now? If moving represents actual progress towards your career goals and gives you more options for your next step, then it might be fairly appealing.
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Mar 8, 2019 01:55
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Guinness posted:Welp, offer came through and it's real good. Might go back and forth a little bit, but I think this is happening. You mean 75 raise?
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Mar 8, 2019 17:17
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Guinness posted:Welp, offer came through and it's real good. Might go back and forth a little bit, but I think this is happening. congrats!!!!! i'm _still_ waiting to hear from seattle and i'm starting to think i have been bamboozled
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Mar 8, 2019 18:18
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Keetron posted:You mean 75 raise? Yeah, sorry, raise
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Mar 8, 2019 18:41
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Forgall posted:Is it normal for NDA to cover things like client identities? Like, I'm working for company X and we make website for company Y, and in some future job interview I can say that I made website using this framework and that library, but I can't say it was for company Y and give link to site. That strikes me as kinda weird. I've worked as a contractor and it's far more common in that market - non-competes and non-disclosures of various types. Both for cutting edge stuff (or things they think are cutting edge), and for subcontracts for larger clients - work I did for Subway, Coca-Cola and SAB Miller all came under contract that I did not discus any aspect of them with anyone (the contract has now expired so I'm good). I generally ask for anything of that type I ask to expire and get renewed yearly/3 yearly or something similar so that eventually I can use it as a part of a portfolio or resume once the business sensitive parts of the work are rolled out. The NDA for the coke stuff was because I was creating the prize draw stuff they used internally to generate and draw those printed prize codes on ringpulls and bottlecaps and they really, really didn't want anyone to game the system (they shouldn't have bothered because I designed it so even I couldn't break it once I removed my access to the source and I'm not interested in free football tickets, just the challenge of making a secure & truly random system that can scale to millions of codes and millions of entries a week  )
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Mar 8, 2019 20:04
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Careful Drums posted:congrats!!!!! C-level vacation can be interminable
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Mar 8, 2019 21:08
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I'm about ready to move on from my current position. I've gotten tired of not having effective immediate leadership and I don't really think there's scope for me to advance my career here. I have a potential in on a mature team with a good mix of experienced devs and newbies, doing a lot of data warehousing, slicing along different axes, exposing data for analysts, etc. In that respect it's pretty similar to my current job, just bigger and more established. The one potential stumbling point is that for the past ~decade I've been working adjacent to the life sciences, writing software to be used by scientists for their research. This position would be basically pure software; the data's all just business application stuff. So I'm a little worried that I won't find it motivating. I guess I don't really have a question as such, but if any of y'all have any opinions or insight, I'd like to hear it.
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Mar 9, 2019 16:03
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:I'm about ready to move on from my current position. I've gotten tired of not having effective immediate leadership and I don't really think there's scope for me to advance my career here. I have a potential in on a mature team with a good mix of experienced devs and newbies, doing a lot of data warehousing, slicing along different axes, exposing data for analysts, etc. In that respect it's pretty similar to my current job, just bigger and more established. The one potential stumbling point is that for the past ~decade I've been working adjacent to the life sciences, writing software to be used by scientists for their research. This position would be basically pure software; the data's all just business application stuff. So I'm a little worried that I won't find it motivating. Motivation can come from many places. Feeling like you're on a team that has its poo poo together, instead of on one being headed up by a bunch of Peter principles, can be a huge motivating factor. Not being The One Person Who Has To Do Everything can be motivating, because there's less pressure on you. Maybe you would find it fulfilling to mentor some of the gumshoes on the new team as well.
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Mar 9, 2019 16:16
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:I'm about ready to move on from my current position. I've gotten tired of not having effective immediate leadership and I don't really think there's scope for me to advance my career here. I have a potential in on a mature team with a good mix of experienced devs and newbies, doing a lot of data warehousing, slicing along different axes, exposing data for analysts, etc. In that respect it's pretty similar to my current job, just bigger and more established. The one potential stumbling point is that for the past ~decade I've been working adjacent to the life sciences, writing software to be used by scientists for their research. This position would be basically pure software; the data's all just business application stuff. So I'm a little worried that I won't find it motivating. Personally I've always been more interested in solving the problem than what the problem is (as long as its ethical). So I find the team culture to be a larger contributor to my average happiness than interest in the problem domain. Even with that said, there have been days where I find it very difficult to motivate myself to get out of bed or do anything because I feel like what my work is being used for doesn't matter. If you've previously hung most of your job satisfaction on solving important problems you're going to need to find new ways to motivate yourself at a minimum. I'm kind of surprised you're asking this though. From your other posts I thought you were pretty happy with what you were doing for Google and you're usually asking for advice on how to improve your abilities to provide technical leadership. I wouldn't have thought you'd hit a wall in your career right now. You should ask yourself if you're considering making a permanent change in response to a momentary issue. On the other hand, its definitely worth considering the long term. Thinking back on it, when I was at Garmin one of the six teams in the department ended up providing something ridiculous like 80% of the people who got promoted to management or architect type positions. If the new manager you're thinking of switching to has a good record of mentoring people for the career track you want, that might be enough to keep you motivated and engaged even if aren't excited about what your work is being used for. I realize I suggested you both stay pat and make the switch but without knowing your exact situation it's hard to give advice. I'm considering a job change right now too so I sympathize with the decision your going to have to make.
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Mar 9, 2019 20:06
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Thanks for the advice / perspectives.LLSix posted:I'm kind of surprised you're asking this though. From your other posts I thought you were pretty happy with what you were doing for Google and you're usually asking for advice on how to improve your abilities to provide technical leadership. I wouldn't have thought you'd hit a wall in your career right now. You should ask yourself if you're considering making a permanent change in response to a momentary issue. I like my team, and I like the problem domain. But we haven't had a proper people manager for over a year now, and I'm still suffering some degree of burnout from a death march we did last year. This decision to move isn't spur of the moment, it's more based on a reflection that I haven't really been enjoying my work for the past year+. It's been challenging, sure, and for awhile there I thought I had good opportunities for career growth, so I stuck with it. I now no longer believe that last bit to be the case, so I'm left with a job that is big-picture good, but kind of grinding me down in the particulars.
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Mar 9, 2019 20:20
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Imagine that you've made the decision to stay, it's a year later, and you're happy. How did that happen? If you can come up with a likely or even plausible explanation, it might be worth sticking around. If not, it's time to move on.
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Mar 9, 2019 20:27
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Yeah, I've already made the decision to leave. It's more a question of, do I leave to the new team I mentioned, or do I shop around some more? This is just the first option that's come up; there's no particular rush to get away from my current position. But it does seem like a decent option, aside from the problem domain being substantially different from what I've worked in in the past.
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Mar 9, 2019 20:45
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Since you aren't absolutely miserable, I would spend some more time job searching. You can really take your time and wait until you get really excited about the position. It doesn't sound like you're super excited about the new team.
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Mar 10, 2019 00:06
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Yeah, I've already made the decision to leave. It's more a question of, do I leave to the new team I mentioned, or do I shop around some more? This is just the first option that's come up; there's no particular rush to get away from my current position. But it does seem like a decent option, aside from the problem domain being substantially different from what I've worked in in the past. Ask to spend some time with the team you'd be working with then? Nothing worse than working with a lame team or with a crappy company. Hard to tell until you spend some time actually working with them, eyeballing immediate management, evaluating the overall level of enthusiasm and competence. The position I'm currently at I spent 2 hours with the two teams I would be working closely with, and although it wasn't amazing, there was noone aggressively inept and no unpleasant personalities, and that was a step above my previous employer.
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Mar 10, 2019 01:21
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:I guess I don't really have a question as such, but if any of y'all have any opinions or insight, I'd like to hear it. I was in a similar situation last year. I had been doing software in the life sciences space for 7ish years but I was burnt out and demotivated by bad leadership. I ended up taking a somewhat smaller role for more money and a hefty set of options at an awesome company with great people that was growing like crazy and heading to IPO but in a generic business domain. I lasted 7 months before I took a pay cut and left what was likely to be a mid-six figure payout to get back to a mission I could get excited about. You gotta decide what gets you out of bed and into work on a bad morning. For me, surprisingly, the mission part of things turned out to be non-negotiable.
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Mar 10, 2019 02:09
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Question for you oldies: How important is your current experience vs previous experience for a job? Not exactly sure how to phrase this, but here's an example I'm thinking of: Say that a few years ago you worked at a place that was really focused on React and other front end work. After that you started working at a place mainly doing back end work, maybe in Java or Python or something like that. Now, you're looking at positions again because you want to go back to working in react. Would employers count the the few years outside of the react world against you, or would the simple fact that you can list jobs/projects in the past that used that technology be enough to have employers be interested in you?
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Mar 10, 2019 15:40
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The Dark Wind posted:Would employers count the the few years outside of the react world against you, or would the simple fact that you can list jobs/projects in the past that used that technology be enough to have employers be interested in you? Both, every person is different. Just apply and if you are not sure, build some thing in React that you can showcase.
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Mar 10, 2019 16:42
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The Dark Wind posted:Question for you oldies: How important is your current experience vs previous experience for a job? Not exactly sure how to phrase this, but here's an example I'm thinking of: Even in a mostly front-end shop, you gotta have somebody who can comfortably work on the REST endpoints or GraphQL server or whatever.
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Mar 10, 2019 21:26
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