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Plutonis posted:Isekai and wish fulfillment fiction are overdone but honestly I can see the reasoning towards them as *joker voice* we live in a society where people are being increasingly pushed towards either bitter isolation as jobless shut-ins or as underpaid wage slaves with no prospect of social mobility and as the illusion that real life can be better is being thoroughly shattered, you might as well dream you are on a fantasy world, because that's the only place you'll find a semblance of happiness lol understand, i'm not knocking escapism at all i'm knocking the kind of mind which, when hungry, dreams about looking at pictures of food in a magazine
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Mar 7, 2019 17:42
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:understand, i'm not knocking escapism at all There’s got to be a warped version of “food, glorious food” in here somewhere.
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Mar 7, 2019 17:45
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Reminds me of that one panel of Accidental Space Spy's dissertation on fiction.
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Mar 7, 2019 19:13
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I just got Nexus: The Infinite City in the mail. I can't believe this hasn't had the F&F treatment.
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Mar 7, 2019 22:32
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CitizenKeen posted:I just got Nexus: The Infinite City in the mail. I can't believe this hasn't had the F&F treatment. It’s been on System Mastery though.
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Mar 7, 2019 22:47
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hyphz posted:It’s been on System Mastery though. I'm aware. I'm not sure how the fact that it's been reviewed elsewhere is relevant to the discussion. Plenty of F&F write-ups were reviewed somewhere else first.
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Mar 7, 2019 22:58
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I'm pretty sure they were just hyping our old episodes. We don't worry about what people review on F&F, it's a whole different thing.
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Mar 7, 2019 23:04
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Ah. Well, my apologies to hyphz.
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Mar 7, 2019 23:12
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super sweet best pal posted:Reminds me of that one panel of Accidental Space Spy's dissertation on fiction. That's by the guy that did Hitmen for Destiny right? Man that was a weiiiiiiiiiird read
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Mar 8, 2019 00:54
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Len posted:That's by the guy that did Hitmen for Destiny right? Man that was a weiiiiiiiiiird read Yup. He also did another one called Transdimensional Brain Chip and is currently making Trixie Slaughteraxe for President.
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Mar 8, 2019 01:00
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Heliotrope posted:Yup. He also did another one called Transdimensional Brain Chip and is currently making Trixie Slaughteraxe for President. Are they worth reading?
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Mar 8, 2019 01:06
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Len posted:Are they worth reading?
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Mar 8, 2019 01:27
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Thrones and Powers is officially live! It is a game about control and union, philosophy and syncretism, and wizard wars and transformations. Thrones and Powers has the players take on roles as leaders of factions in an ongoing street war seeking to gain enough strength and mystical resources to unify their ranks and stand tall against the heavens. Manage resources, consult with lieutenants, and command the arcane powers of your faction's rituals to achieve greatness. Thrones and Powers is currently pay-what-you-want, exclusively on itch io.
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Mar 9, 2019 01:17
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Joel Rosenberg started his series about D&D players sucked into their game in 1983, right down to characters discussing whether they could win fights based off their levels and average NPC levels.
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Mar 9, 2019 03:28
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xiw posted:Joel Rosenberg started his series about D&D players sucked into their game in 1983, right down to characters discussing whether they could win fights based off their levels and average NPC levels. Is this the one where one of the women, who has the highest-level character, gets raped into catatonia by bandits nigh-instantly on arrival? Because... yeah.
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Mar 9, 2019 03:46
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Antivehicular posted:Is this the one where one of the women, who has the highest-level character, gets raped into catatonia by bandits nigh-instantly on arrival? Because... yeah. Jesus christ, but also seems like he had the essence of isekai down before anyone else.
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Mar 9, 2019 03:56
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Antivehicular posted:Is this the one where one of the women, who has the highest-level character, gets raped into catatonia by bandits nigh-instantly on arrival? Because... yeah. Not instantly, and its low on the isekai scale because literally the whole point of the series is them being on a literal mission from god to end slavery forever.
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Mar 9, 2019 04:04
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NinjaDebugger posted:Not instantly, and its low on the isekai scale because literally the whole point of the series is them being on a literal mission from god to end slavery forever. Oh, well it's good to know it isn't instant.
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Mar 9, 2019 04:25
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NinjaDebugger posted:Not instantly, and its low on the isekai scale because literally the whole point of the series is them being on a literal mission from god to end slavery forever. Well, she didn't fuckin' stick around long enough to achieve anything or get meaningful character beats, sorry if I forgot the exact pagecount
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Mar 9, 2019 04:58
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Len posted:Are they worth reading? Space Spy and Brain Chip were ok; had their highs and lows but I'd rate them not as good as H4D overall. The current series is great and worth checking out. http://trixie.thecomicseries.com/comics/first/
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Mar 9, 2019 05:15
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NinjaDebugger posted:Not instantly The worst "well actually."
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Mar 9, 2019 10:08
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Kai Tave posted:The worst "well actually." Basically? I mean, it was written in loving 1983. It didn't need to happen, and if he weren't dead, I could try and ask him if he'd do it differently now. The series as a whole has exactly one rape, that one, and I don't think rape happens in any of his other books. It never happens again, so it's clearly not his thing the way it is, say, Donaldson, who peppers all his poo poo with rape the way Jack Chalker does body swapping or Asimov does robots. If I were going to condemn him for something, it'd 100% be his lovely gun-loving libertarian politics.
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Mar 9, 2019 13:01
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NinjaDebugger posted:Basically? I mean, it was written in loving 1983. It didn't need to happen, and if he weren't dead, I could try and ask him if he'd do it differently now. The series as a whole has exactly one rape, that one, and I don't think rape happens in any of his other books. It never happens again, so it's clearly not his thing the way it is, say, Donaldson, who peppers all his poo poo with rape the way Jack Chalker does body swapping or Asimov does robots. It wasn't really meant as an indictment of you personally so much as the fact that the precise time in which the catatonia-inducing rape happens really isn't the thing I think most people are going to take issue with.
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Mar 9, 2019 13:36
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It also has one of the party's rogues getting rather graphically speared to death shortly after arrival for failing a pick pockets check.
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Mar 9, 2019 13:43
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Liquid Communism posted:It also has one of the party's rogues getting rather graphically speared to death shortly after arrival for failing a pick pockets check. Yeah, that happens right off the bat, like the second thing that happens after they get sent to the fantasy world. Thief didn't keep his fingers to himself, hosed up picking a noble's pocket, killed. The first thing that happens when they wake up is the wizard blowing off a lightning bolt immediately upon waking up and blowing up all the sweet magical gear they got sent with, including his spellbooks. It's pretty much the opposite of isekai in that basically nothing goes right for them, and even the poo poo that goes right bites them later. Fighter guy winning a tournament against a vengeful slaver is where the rape ends up coming from. The slaver tracks them down afterward, fucks their poo poo up, takes them all captive, and gives the women to his men. The whole first book is a massive shitshow that seems to be saying nothing but "Being sent to a fantasy world really wouldn't be all it's cracked up to be." The closest equivalent in the current isekai I could think of would probably be Grimgar.
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Mar 9, 2019 14:23
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NinjaDebugger posted:Yeah, that happens right off the bat, like the second thing that happens after they get sent to the fantasy world. Thief didn't keep his fingers to himself, hosed up picking a noble's pocket, killed. The first thing that happens when they wake up is the wizard blowing off a lightning bolt immediately upon waking up and blowing up all the sweet magical gear they got sent with, including his spellbooks. It's pretty much the opposite of isekai in that basically nothing goes right for them, and even the poo poo that goes right bites them later. Fighter guy winning a tournament against a vengeful slaver is where the rape ends up coming from. The slaver tracks them down afterward, fucks their poo poo up, takes them all captive, and gives the women to his men. That sounds completely miserable to read, like it makes Game of Thrones sound cheery in comparison
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Mar 9, 2019 17:29
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Seems like it comes out of the 1970s misery-grognard "this is how things REALLY work in a pseudo-medieval world" approach (like that Poul Anderson essay "On Thud and Blunder")
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Mar 9, 2019 17:38
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drrockso20 posted:That sounds completely miserable to read, like it makes Game of Thrones sound cheery in comparison It goes pretty quickly, but I was young, and my view of it now is colored by knowing what lies beyond it.
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Mar 9, 2019 17:38
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drrockso20 posted:That sounds completely miserable to read, like it makes Game of Thrones sound cheery in comparison It is pretty bleak. It ends in said party wizard giving up his magic and deciding to kickstart chemical engineering specifically so that he can see all the rest of the wizards in the setting get shot in the face by the proles for being a bunch of utter cunts whose lifestyle is mostly provided by the slavers' guild.
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Mar 9, 2019 19:24
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"Everything is poo poo and you are mercilessly shat upon," is the weirdest thing to have as your escapist fantasy and that is including LitRPG
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Mar 9, 2019 20:04
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Think about what late 70's D&D was like and it follows pretty logically.
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Mar 9, 2019 20:33
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Darwinism posted:"Everything is poo poo and you are mercilessly shat upon," is the weirdest thing to have as your escapist fantasy and that is including LitRPG People enjoy seeing characters suffer adversity and eventually triumph despite it, and especially like underdog stories.
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Mar 9, 2019 20:38
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Given the nature of early D&D, the notion that it would actually be a poo poo place to live in isn't that radical a twist.
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Mar 9, 2019 20:46
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Lemon-Lime posted:People enjoy seeing characters suffer adversity and eventually triumph despite it, and especially like underdog stories. Underdog stories can exist without exaggerated fantasy misery tourism like raping people into catatonia to establish how poo poo the world is
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Mar 9, 2019 21:47
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Alien Rope Burn posted:Given the nature of early D&D, the notion that it would actually be a poo poo place to live in isn't that radical a twist. Yes! Both Blackmoor and Greyhawk very much follow a Dying Earth mode with the world a dark poo poo place studded with old glories. It’s not until Dragonlance that the idea that D&D characters can be heroes and make the world better enters at all.
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Mar 9, 2019 22:27
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Arivia posted:Yes! Both Blackmoor and Greyhawk very much follow a Dying Earth mode with the world a dark poo poo place studded with old glories. It’s not until Dragonlance that the idea that D&D characters can be heroes and make the world better enters at all. Bleak settings can be great. Rape to convey bleakness is a cheap move by lovely authors to evoke emotion when they fail to otherwise. edit: Like my issue wasn't bleak stories??? It was "This setting is poo poo, you are poo poo, and also rape happens to you" is some people's idea of escapist fantasy and that is weird as poo poo Darwinism fucked around with this message at 04:26 on Mar 10, 2019 |
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Mar 10, 2019 04:23
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This conversation reminded me of a book I tried to read back in third or 4th grade called Lord Fouls Bane. I remembered nothing beyond the title but apparently the main character decides he's in a coma and rapes someone according to Wikipedia so good on me for quitting that to read Outcast of Redwall instead
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Mar 10, 2019 04:25
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Len posted:This conversation reminded me of a book I tried to read back in third or 4th grade called Lord Fouls Bane. I remembered nothing beyond the title but apparently the main character decides he's in a coma and rapes someone according to Wikipedia so good on me for quitting that to read Outcast of Redwall instead That's the thomas covenant series, which came highly recommended, and I had exaclty the same problem with it. This epic fantasy series starts with some dude who gets leprosy and then gets transported to a magic world where his white gold wedding ring gives him immense power, and oh by the way he goes ahead and rapes some girl and then apparently is totally unapolagetic about it because, you see, it's OK if you rape someone when you think it's not real. That's the protagonist. We're supposed to like him, I guess. I never finished that book and never read the rest, and gently caress that guy stephen r donaldson.
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Mar 10, 2019 04:39
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Leperflesh posted:That's the thomas covenant series, which came highly recommended, and I had exaclty the same problem with it. This epic fantasy series starts with some dude who gets leprosy and then gets transported to a magic world where his white gold wedding ring gives him immense power, and oh by the way he goes ahead and rapes some girl and then apparently is totally unapolagetic about it because, you see, it's OK if you rape someone when you think it's not real. There's a reason I mentioned Donaldson. Rape is his thing. It's in all of his poo poo.
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Mar 10, 2019 04:46
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Leperflesh posted:That's the thomas covenant series, which came highly recommended, and I had exaclty the same problem with it. This epic fantasy series starts with some dude who gets leprosy and then gets transported to a magic world where his white gold wedding ring gives him immense power, and oh by the way he goes ahead and rapes some girl and then apparently is totally unapolagetic about it because, you see, it's OK if you rape someone when you think it's not real. I had it recommended to me too, all those years ago, and I no longer have any idea who or why. Because I never see anybody do anything but poo poo all over Stephen R Donaldson nowadays, and rightly so. And even at the time, like mid-80s so even before me reading this stuff, maybe there wasn't as much discussion about the rape but there was at least clench racing. It's not like people didn't know it was poo poo.
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Mar 10, 2019 04:47
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