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SubNat posted:IIRC: Biters only attack military buildings, players, and pollution-producing buildings, in that order. They will attack power poles they just usually don't. They'll attack basically anything that screws up their pathing but have a set of priorities. They will attack rails they just rarely actually do. I think players get the top priority and then military buildings. They target polluting things but will priorities anything military they happen to meet along the way. I think the way their AI works is they set their destination to whatever polluting things pissed them off but stop to eat any military buildings or things that screw up their pathing along the way. I don't think there's anything they won't attack other than other biters and their houses they just typically don't find a reason to tear up your rails.
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Mar 11, 2019 15:20
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Duodecimal posted:Christ that is unsightly. Nah I like it, reminds me of the factory in the trailer just a bit less compacted.
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Mar 11, 2019 15:34
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Why do the bugs want to destroy polluting buildings when the smog makes them stronger? What I'm saying is there should be a diplomacy and trading mod.
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Mar 11, 2019 15:38
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Oxyclean posted:I saw bitters wreck up some rails after wagon artillery fired on them. It looked like they only really attacked the spot they were fired on from, and didn't just rampage the whole track. AFAIK, the heat capacity in heat pipes and exchangers basically just acts as a "tank" of energy that you have to fill up once, the first time the reactor runs, before they'll start working.
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Mar 11, 2019 15:41
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Dezinus posted:Why do the bugs want to destroy polluting buildings when the smog makes them stronger? What I'm saying is there should be a diplomacy and trading mod. and if they don't like the pollution why do they keep expanding back into my cloud?  RPATDO_LAMD posted:AFAIK, the heat capacity in heat pipes and exchangers basically just acts as a "tank" of energy that you have to fill up once, the first time the reactor runs, before they'll start working. You're right from what I've observed - stuff needs to come up to temperature before anything starts working. From what I read 500C is optimal temperature, and exchangers can heat up past that, but it's just stored heat at that point. I'm just not sure how you read like, a max heat capacity, Like how did people figure out you can run 4 heat exchangers from one reactor?
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Mar 11, 2019 15:57
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Oxyclean posted:and if they don't like the pollution why do they keep expanding back into my cloud? To figure out the outputs you've just gotta look at the power values. A lone reactor produces 40 MW of power, and a heat exchanger can consume up to 10 MW of power and convert it into steam, so it's a perfect 1-to-4 ratio The steam turbine and water pump ratios get a little uglier though. Turbines consume 60 steam per second, enough to make 5.8MW of energy. That means you need 10 turbines for every 5.8 heat exchangers. You can then use those wattage and steam-flow numbers to figure out that heat exchangers produce 10 MW / 5.8 MW * 60 = 103 steam per second, meaning they consume 103 water per second. Offshore pumps make 1,200 water per second, so the ratio there is an ugly imperfect one as well.
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Mar 11, 2019 16:14
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When multiple inserters are taking from a single assembly machine, how does the game prioritize them?
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Mar 11, 2019 16:30
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I'm pretty sure it's whichever one was placed first? Or placed last? There are no fixed rules, it depends on the order the game updates the inserters.
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Mar 11, 2019 16:56
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Oxyclean posted:I saw bitters wreck up some rails after wagon artillery fired on them. It looked like they only really attacked the spot they were fired on from, and didn't just rampage the whole track. There's two things going on with biters. First, they have the pathing that takes them to a source of pollution or attack. While on this path they'll only attack military buildings but if an object gets in the way of their pathing (like a tree or power pole) they'll attack that. Once they've reached their destination they'll just gently caress everything up. So if they're targeting a source of pollution in your base they'll just start munching up your base. If you attack them with artillery the artillery location will be the target, so they'll path to that location and then once they're there just attack whatever.
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Mar 11, 2019 17:06
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It's a bit disappointing that long range attacks like artillery provoke an attack response. Don't really see how the fuckers should be smart enough to figure out where the artillery came from.  Also seems like it makes train artillery not the most effective since you gotta stick around and protect the rails, or set up firing locations. Which brings me to a though: Why don't we have train mounted roboports? Automate rail repair (and extension.)
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Mar 11, 2019 17:46
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Kibbles n Shits posted:When multiple inserters are taking from a single assembly machine, how does the game prioritize them? They take turns, meaning they can be a substitute for splitters in earlygame or compact setups Oxyclean posted:It's a bit disappointing that long range attacks like artillery provoke an attack response. Don't really see how the fuckers should be smart enough to figure out where the artillery came from. A train-mounted roboport (and storage wagon) seems like a solid in-universe competitor with the FARL. I've noticed that the number of "default" mods has gone down since I started playing as the developers incorporated their changes into the main game, and the FARL is the only one that's stayed the same.
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Mar 11, 2019 18:17
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Kibbles n Shits posted:When multiple inserters are taking from a single assembly machine, how does the game prioritize them? Whichever one you've set up circuit conditions to prioritize (I don't know, seems to alternate)
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Mar 11, 2019 18:25
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Oxyclean posted:I've been working on nuclear power for my MP base, and while I understand how to make things go, I don't really understand some of the nuts and bolts, or I feel like I'm over thinking things? I think most of us have been there playing around with nuclear after it was introduced. After some experiments though I simply didn't have the patience to polish a design to perfection. This guy did so I just use his BP book. https://forums.factorio.com/viewtopic.php?f=208&t=47556 I use his because you can lay it down in phases. First 2 reactors to get going. Later when you want more you overlay the size you want over what you have and it fits. The only thing I end up changing is the threshold for feeding new fuel. The 2 reactor one is set to 1M steam which it cannot store so it just burns fuel constantly. Set to 50 or 100k and it's works as desired.
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Mar 11, 2019 18:36
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Ratzap posted:I think most of us have been there playing around with nuclear after it was introduced. After some experiments though I simply didn't have the patience to polish a design to perfection. This guy did so I just use his BP book. Wild. I've mostly tried to avoid using other's blueprints so far since I like to understand why & how things set up (and learn how to do things to a degree) so if I see something that makes my mind boggle, I feel a bit guilty using it. That said, soemone on reddit shared this coal liquification layout that's brilliant:  https://factorioprints.com/view/-L_dgvit-TLeoWF3EL6K I had no idea how to what to do with coal liquification because it seemed like a lot of hassle to get the steam and heavy oil, and it'd just make more sense to keep on fuelling legacy poo poo with coal, and leave my oil products to do their own thing. But this is basically coal -> solid fuel, and it didn't dawn on me to just use the products of the liquefaction to keep the process going.
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Mar 11, 2019 18:44
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Yeah coal liquifation is great for some things. Just tap a few barrels of steam and heavy off your main base. Those will get it going so you can close the loop and walk away.
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Mar 11, 2019 19:48
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You could just shove some fuel into the boilers to jump start them, it's only the heavy oil you'll need a temporary line to kick off the process.
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Mar 11, 2019 19:50
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Oxyclean posted:It's a bit disappointing that long range attacks like artillery provoke an attack response. Don't really see how the fuckers should be smart enough to figure out where the artillery came from. Why don't we have train mounted machine guns?
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Mar 11, 2019 20:07
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ninjewtsu posted:Why don't we have train mounted machine guns? Or just a flatbed car you can stick turrets on. The biters had killed Thomas' friend Percy, and Thomas was steamed about it! If the biters keep wrecking our engines and rails, people will say this is a bad railroad! So Thomas pulled out of the station, and this time he had a gun.
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Mar 11, 2019 20:17
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Oxyclean posted:and if they don't like the pollution why do they keep expanding back into my butt?  Kibbles n Shits posted:When multiple inserters are taking from a single assembly machine, how does the game prioritize them?
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Mar 11, 2019 20:19
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Oxyclean posted:Wild. I've mostly tried to avoid using other's blueprints so far since I like to understand why & how things set up (and learn how to do things to a degree) so if I see something that makes my mind boggle, I feel a bit guilty using it. So, does this end up creating more fuel per unit of coal than the coal itself? Obviously if you need solid fuel you need solid fuel, but I'm wondering why you'd fuel your boiler with solid fuel rather than some of the coal you're shipping in to turn into solid fuel.
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Mar 11, 2019 20:20
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chairface posted:Or just a flatbed car you can stick turrets on. The biters had killed Thomas' friend Percy, and Thomas was steamed about it! If the biters keep wrecking our engines and rails, people will say this is a bad railroad! So Thomas pulled out of the station, and this time he had a gun. Need a flat bed that lets you put anything on it. Just have it provide 2x6 tiles you can use to put inserters, guns, smelters, whatever
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Mar 11, 2019 20:22
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FISHMANPET posted:So, does this end up creating more fuel per unit of coal than the coal itself? Obviously if you need solid fuel you need solid fuel, but I'm wondering why you'd fuel your boiler with solid fuel rather than some of the coal you're shipping in to turn into solid fuel. If the recipe hasn't changed in the last two years: https://steamcommunity.com/app/427520/discussions/0/1319962417042759428/ quote:If you don't count energy for the processing (because of solar), you turn 10 coal into 5 solid fuel.
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Mar 11, 2019 20:24
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Oxyclean posted:Wild. I've mostly tried to avoid using other's blueprints so far since I like to understand why & how things set up (and learn how to do things to a degree) so if I see something that makes my mind boggle, I feel a bit guilty using it. Liquifaction let's you turn coal patches into self contained plastic factories which is worth it all on its own. Just provide power and it outputs plastic for you to train off.
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Mar 11, 2019 20:31
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Im glad I updated to .17 to continue my factory. These recipes seem much easier. So far Ive been extensively looking at the wiki and watched one video/guide by KatherineofSky. Ive got science 3 pretty much solved and just got military science going too. I think my main bus is way too god drat big with a full bus set aside for 4 lanes of copper I havent even needed to set up smelting for yet. Is there a guide for laying out train tracks? Ive run 2 non connected lines that loop at the ends so the train can turn around, but the process of lining up the tracks to get them to merge was a pain and they look horrific. I cant seem to wrap my head around how the track drawing tool works. When I get home in a bit Ill post some pics of my spaghetti rear end mining/smelting lines and ask for some feedback, as Im about to run another train line out to iron but not sure how to bring it into the factory without building a whole new electric smelting area and figure out how to feed it to my bus.
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Mar 11, 2019 20:38
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Cocoa Crispies posted:If the recipe hasn't changed in the last two years: https://steamcommunity.com/app/427520/discussions/0/1319962417042759428/ Apparently 0.17 introduced new values for liquefaction (it was mentioned in the reddit thread) someone also did some math: quote:I got some slightly different numbers.
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Mar 11, 2019 20:46
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Oxyclean posted:It's a bit disappointing that long range attacks like artillery provoke an attack response. Don't really see how the fuckers should be smart enough to figure out where the artillery came from. see, motherfuckers come in with a colonial, speciesist attitude like this and then act surprised when they lose a war to emus biters work the same way
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Mar 11, 2019 21:47
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I like to imagine the factorio planet as a single organsim ala SMAC's Planet, where the biters are an antibody type response to a foriegn invader.
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Mar 11, 2019 23:24
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Ciaphas posted:Any thoughts on steel smelting? Do you prefer a double-furnace arrangement for going ore to steel in one place or exporting iron off the bus into another 'normal' smelting column? I've never come up with a smeltery that felt particularly "good" to be honest. I am using a new (to me) layout for steel in the early game that I really like:  Nice and compact, just stick a filter splitter or an underground belt on the end to take the steel and block the coal. I usually build them this length (12 smelters per row, 24 total) so that once I upgrade to steel furnaces the build will fully consume half a yellow belt of iron ore. Two or three of these next to each other will satisfy your steel needs for a good long time. My favourite thing about this layout is how quick it is to build, I picked it up from watching Factorio speedruns. There is no careful individual placement of objects, you can do the whole thing with big click-and-drag motions. Later in the game I don't bother with anything this cute, with red belts I just have a stack of 48 steel furnaces making iron plates feed in to another stack of 48 furnaces making steel, and when I get to electric furnaces and blue belts I go back to inserting directly from furnace to furnace since coal routing is no loner an issue.
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Mar 11, 2019 23:40
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Jamsque posted:I am using a new (to me) layout for steel in the early game that I really like: Oh wow that's rad as hell but also makes perfect sense when you think about it. I would probably run a full belt of iron ore and a full belt coal for the initial but there will always be room on the output belt for that even if you run coal there as well...
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Mar 11, 2019 23:49
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Oxyclean posted:Apparently 0.17 introduced new values for liquefaction (it was mentioned in the reddit thread) the "extra" energy is actually because the moisture and uncombustable volatiles are driven off the coal during liquifaction, hence allowing more recoverable heat energy from the solid fuel compared to the coal. Or something. Who knows.
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Mar 11, 2019 23:52
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Oxyclean posted:It's a bit disappointing that long range attacks like artillery provoke an attack response. Don't really see how the fuckers should be smart enough to figure out where the artillery came from. I would suggest that they can probably hear it go bang when it fires.
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Mar 12, 2019 00:00
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I mean if you're concerned the appropriate solution is to install the nuke artillery mod, then be done
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Mar 12, 2019 00:03
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Who needs a fancy steel bus when you can make steel on demand! Don't forget the garlic bread, it's spaghetti night!
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Mar 12, 2019 00:04
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Drone_Fragger posted:the "extra" energy is actually because the moisture and uncombustable volatiles are driven off the coal during liquifaction, hence allowing more recoverable heat energy from the solid fuel compared to the coal. Or something. Who knows. Yeah, the science of combustion is really complex and even a century ago people were designing around the specifics of burning coal.
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Mar 12, 2019 00:51
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Dezinus posted:Who needs a fancy steel bus when you can make steel on demand! Don't forget the garlic bread, it's spaghetti night! Making steel from your iron line puts so much strain on your iron logistics. It's like 5 iron plates for a steel one and you need a buttload of 'em.
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Mar 12, 2019 01:12
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I'm really enjoying the .17 no BP no wiki play though. It's not quite total spaghetti but it's far from optimized. Things were going well until I sparked up purple circuits and my entire iron/copper/green circuit bus poo poo the bed. My starting patches are almost tapped out so I hopped in my tank and became death incarnate, and now I have a 10m copper and 20m iron patch to send my trains to. I really need to buckle down and make a mall with inserters/belts/etc. I'm still handcrafting that poo poo and it's terrible. I love this game. BTW - if you didn't know, Lowtax is in some financial poo poo and the forums are in danger. https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3884184 If you like discussing Factorio with goons and not having to resort to Reddit, consider donating to his Patreon or using the donate button up top. https://www.patreon.com/GamingGarbage/overview Canuckistan fucked around with this message at 01:38 on Mar 12, 2019 |
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Mar 12, 2019 01:35
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By the way, for all zero of you who use Side Inserters, Factorio 0.17.11 included a fix not mentioned in the changelog, that makes fast-replaced or bot-upgraded inserters keep any custom direction/pickup they have set.
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Mar 12, 2019 12:31
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i use side inserters but between new path of exile league, ff14 grind and warframe content i only played .17 up to green tech send help 
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Mar 12, 2019 13:50
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Honk 3.0.0 released -  BIG TIME CHANGES While updating Honk to use proper API calls instead of the old hacky method it used to play sounds, I noticed that the audible range is really low in 0.17 The new iHonk2.0 algorithm defaults to on but can be disabled, and is audible over a much larger (and user-definable) distance. The audible volume will be proportional to the distance between the player and the train. This may have a performance impact, but I'm not sure to what degree. One thing I haven't been able to do is test it in multiplayer, so please let me know if breaks horribly.
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Mar 12, 2019 15:45
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Factory Town, which I think was mentioned here a bit ago, just hit early access and looks super cute. Seems like gnomoria/factorio hybrid the best I can describe it. https://store.steampowered.com/app/860890/Factory_Town/
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