Aeronautical Insanity: switching to secondary tolerances

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Automotive Insanity > Aeronautical Insanity: switching to secondary tolerances

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priznat: Jul 7, 2009; Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

My family is flying YVR to SFO on an AC 737MAX 8 in May so I�m really hoping they get whatever is going on figured out by then :ohdear:

# ? Mar 11, 2019 20:49

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# ? May 24, 2024 22:05

bloops: Dec 31, 2010; Thanks Ape Pussy!

priznat posted:

My family is flying YVR to SFO on an AC 737MAX 8 in May so I�m really hoping they get whatever is going on figured out by then

I wouldn�t worry. There are still hundreds of Max�s flying without experiencing issues. These two mishaps very well could be hugely coincidental in terms of timing and similarity.

# ? Mar 11, 2019 20:57

priznat: Jul 7, 2009; Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

holocaust bloopers posted:

I wouldn�t worry. There are still hundreds of Max�s flying without experiencing issues. These two mishaps very well could be hugely coincidental in terms of timing and similarity.

Yeah not mentioning it to my wife, even so. Air Canada is not grounding the aircraft along with the rest of North American operators.

# ? Mar 11, 2019 21:02

bull3964: Nov 18, 2000; DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.

Standard HUGE grain on salt due to the normal reliability of eyewitness accounts, but several have cited smoke, debris, and unusual noise prior to the crash.

All could easily be explained away as people seeing and hearing what they wanted to in the lead up to the crash. If they turn out to be accurate though, then it's unlikely the crash had the same cause.

# ? Mar 11, 2019 21:13

bloops: Dec 31, 2010; Thanks Ape Pussy!

Something like 82% of witnesses report seeing a plane on fire during mishaps where no visible fire occurred. USAF Flight Safety school spent time discussing how unreliable witness testimony can be.

# ? Mar 11, 2019 21:19

bull3964: Nov 18, 2000; DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.

Yeah, that's why I said huge grain of salt.

They've apparently recovered both the FDR and CVR so hopefully some real data will come in soon.

One article mentioned the co-pilot had less than 200 hours of flight time while the pilot had 8,000 hours. It will be interesting to see if inexperience in emergency situations hindered the recovery of the plane.

# ? Mar 11, 2019 21:26

Jealous Cow: Apr 4, 2002; by Fluffdaddy

priznat posted:

My family is flying YVR to SFO on an AC 737MAX 8 in May so I�m really hoping they get whatever is going on figured out by then

I think the bigger risk is it being an Air Canada flight to SFO HAY-OHHHH

# ? Mar 11, 2019 21:36

priznat: Jul 7, 2009; Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

Jealous Cow posted:

I think the bigger risk is it being an Air Canada flight to SFO HAY-OHHHH

No attempted landings on taxiway! They can have one!

# ? Mar 11, 2019 21:57

Nebakenezzer: Sep 13, 2005; The Mote in God's Eye

holocaust bloopers posted:

Something like 82% of witnesses report seeing a plane on fire during mishaps where no visible fire occurred. USAF Flight Safety school spent time discussing how unreliable witness testimony can be.

Now I know this is a thing, but I gotta ask about the details. Are air crashes especially given to that psychological distortion, or are we just that suggestible?

# ? Mar 11, 2019 22:08

Hermsgerv�rden: Apr 23, 2004; Møøse Trainer

All these runways are yours, except Taxiway C. Attempt no landings there!

# ? Mar 11, 2019 22:08

bloops: Dec 31, 2010; Thanks Ape Pussy!

Nebakenezzer posted:

Now I know this is a thing, but I gotta ask about the details. Are air crashes especially given to that psychological distortion, or are we just that suggestible?

Humans are stupid, basically.

# ? Mar 11, 2019 22:10

hobbesmaster: Jan 28, 2008

Hermsgerv�rden posted:

All these runways are yours, except Taxiway C. Attempt no landings there!

Where was this when it was timely enough to be a thread title.

Nebakenezzer posted:

Now I know this is a thing, but I gotta ask about the details. Are air crashes especially given to that psychological distortion, or are we just that suggestible?

Didn't TWA Flight 800 had multiple people report seeing a SAM?

# ? Mar 11, 2019 22:11

Jealous Cow: Apr 4, 2002; by Fluffdaddy

Hermsgerv�rden posted:

All these runways are yours, except Taxiway C. Attempt no landings there!

Holy poo poo :pusheen:

# ? Mar 11, 2019 22:15

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

bull3964 posted:

Yeah, that's why I said huge grain of salt.

They've apparently recovered both the FDR and CVR so hopefully some real data will come in soon.

One article mentioned the co-pilot had less than 200 hours of flight time while the pilot had 8,000 hours. It will be interesting to see if inexperience in emergency situations hindered the recovery of the plane.

Surely under 200 on type, right?

I mean I'm closing in on 600 hours and I think the appropriate next step is, well, probably not going right seat on a 737. I mean, I could probably handle it but I'd prefer something a wee bit smaller as a transition from Piper Senecas and C172s.

# ? Mar 11, 2019 22:20

joat mon: Oct 15, 2009; I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

source:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNVUyiHITKk&t=448s

# ? Mar 11, 2019 22:24

e.pilot: Nov 20, 2011; sometimes maybe good
sometimes maybe shit

Fire rich exhaust :eyepop:

# ? Mar 11, 2019 22:26

Syrian Lannister: Aug 25, 2007; Oh, did I kill him too?
I've been a very busy little man.; Sugartime Jones

hobbesmaster posted:

Where was this when it was timely enough to be a thread title.

Didn't TWA Flight 800 had multiple people report seeing a SAM?

Yes; including a navy test and terror launched SAM's

# ? Mar 11, 2019 22:32

bull3964: Nov 18, 2000; DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.

PT6A posted:

Surely under 200 on type, right?

I mean I'm closing in on 600 hours and I think the appropriate next step is, well, probably not going right seat on a 737. I mean, I could probably handle it but I'd prefer something a wee bit smaller as a transition from Piper Senecas and C172s.

Articles made it sound like 200 total. They mentioned to side by side with the 8k hours the pilot had. Wouldn't it be impossible to have 8,000 hours on a 737 MAX right now?

Source is actually Ethiopian Airlines.

https://www.twitter.com/flyethiopian/status/1104744539686866944

bull3964 fucked around with this message at 23:04 on Mar 11, 2019

# ? Mar 11, 2019 22:57

e.pilot: Nov 20, 2011; sometimes maybe good
sometimes maybe shit

bull3964 posted:

Articles made it sound like 200 total. They mentioned to side by side with the 8k hours the pilot had. Wouldn't it be impossible to have 8,000 hours on a 737 MAX right now?

Yeah but it�s also the media reporting on aviation so who knows.

# ? Mar 11, 2019 22:59

hobbesmaster: Jan 28, 2008

bull3964 posted:

Articles made it sound like 200 total. They mentioned to side by side with the 8k hours the pilot had. Wouldn't it be impossible to have 8,000 hours on a 737 MAX right now?

The 737 MAX shares type rating with all other 737s - thats the entire point of it. So he could have 8000 hours on type.

# ? Mar 11, 2019 23:00

bull3964: Nov 18, 2000; DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.

hobbesmaster posted:

The 737 MAX shares type rating with all other 737s - thats the entire point of it. So he could have 8000 hours on type.

Ethiopian Airlines themselves say cumulative. Though, I suppose that's still open to interpretation.

# ? Mar 11, 2019 23:04

Wingnut Ninja: Jan 11, 2003; Mostly Harmless

hobbesmaster posted:

Didn't TWA Flight 800 had multiple people report seeing a SAM?

Since I've been binging Youtube air crash videos recently, there's a theory that people saw the flaming fuselage streaking upward (due to the massive CG shift) after the front got blown off and that's what appeared to be a SAM.

# ? Mar 12, 2019 00:35

Spaced God: Feb 8, 2014; All torment, trouble, wonder and amazement
Inhabits here: some heavenly power guide us
Out of this fearful country!

https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1105255969007812609
https://twitter.com/AirlineFlyer/status/1105261628986142720

# ? Mar 12, 2019 01:20

Godholio: Aug 28, 2002; Does a bear split in the woods near Zheleznogorsk?

e.pilot posted:

Because the artificial feel wouldn�t feel right if it didn�t, and could lead to possible over controlling.

Undercontrolling doesn't seem to be working out.

# ? Mar 12, 2019 01:50

Rip Testes: Jan 29, 2004; I never forget a face, but in your case I'll be glad to make an exception.

quote:

On Mar 11th 2019 two listeners on frequency reported independently the crew declared emergency shortly after normal departure, while in the initial climb, reporting they had unreliable airspeed indications and had difficulties to control the aircraft. The listeners could not hear later transmissions due to frequency changes.

# ? Mar 12, 2019 05:32

Sagebrush: Feb 26, 2012

I just bought some plane tickets and I admit I double-checked the airplane type code to make sure that a 738 is not a 7M8

# ? Mar 12, 2019 05:44

mllaneza: Apr 28, 2007; Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952

joat mon posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNVUyiHITKk&t=448s

Oh god, [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNVUyiHITKk&t=558s"]9:18[/url]

gently caress. I'm just going to leave it. 9:18 looks crazy.

# ? Mar 12, 2019 05:55

Sagebrush: Feb 26, 2012

Nebakenezzer posted:

Now I know this is a thing, but I gotta ask about the details. Are air crashes especially given to that psychological distortion, or are we just that suggestible?

i'm gonna blame the movies

# ? Mar 12, 2019 06:10

Phanatic: Mar 13, 2007; Please don't forget that I am an extremely racist idiot who also has terrible opinions about the Culture series.

Nebakenezzer posted:

Now I know this is a thing, but I gotta ask about the details. Are air crashes especially given to that psychological distortion, or are we just that suggestible?

Eyewitness testimony is pretty poo poo in general. Memory is really malleable.

# ? Mar 12, 2019 07:05

luminalflux: May 27, 2005

Wingnut Ninja posted:

after the front got blown off

That�s not very typical, I�d like to make that point.

# ? Mar 12, 2019 07:23

Boris Galerkin: Dec 17, 2011; I don't understand why I can't harass people online. Seriously, somebody please explain why I shouldn't be allowed to stalk others on social media!

bull3964 posted:

Articles made it sound like 200 total. They mentioned to side by side with the 8k hours the pilot had. Wouldn't it be impossible to have 8,000 hours on a 737 MAX right now?

Source is actually Ethiopian Airlines.

https://www.twitter.com/flyethiopian/status/1104744539686866944

I�m listening to an NPR interview of a 737 MAX pilot for American and he says that his training for the new planes amounted to �56 minutes on an iPad� which was �basically slides and audios� describing the differences. The interviewer also asks if he would have known what to do had he been the the pilot on the Lion Air flight and he says that he knows now because Boeing apparently didn�t mention the new system in their manuals.

https://overcast.fm/+nmn7rqq0 interview starts about 5 minutes in and lasts until 12 minutes in. The whole interview is full of wtf.

# ? Mar 12, 2019 08:46

Jealous Cow: Apr 4, 2002; by Fluffdaddy

https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1105466679528689664

# ? Mar 12, 2019 14:53

bloops: Dec 31, 2010; Thanks Ape Pussy!

Well then.

# ? Mar 12, 2019 14:54

Dr_Strangelove: Dec 16, 2003; Mein Fuhrer! THEY WON!

Jealous Cow posted:

https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1105466679528689664

My phone just BLEW UP with alerts on this.

# ? Mar 12, 2019 14:54

Jealous Cow: Apr 4, 2002; by Fluffdaddy

Looks Norwegian Air and Australia have followed suit.

# ? Mar 12, 2019 14:57

ManifunkDestiny: Aug 2, 2005; THE ONLY THING BETTER THAN THE SEAHAWKS IS RUSSELL WILSON'S TAINT SWEAT

Seahawks #1 fan since 2014.

President Smoothbrain chimed in:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1105468569800839169

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1105471621672960000

# ? Mar 12, 2019 15:17

Lightbulb Out: Apr 28, 2006; slack jawed yokel

Folks, do not let Albert fly the plane.

# ? Mar 12, 2019 15:22

Dr_Strangelove: Dec 16, 2003; Mein Fuhrer! THEY WON!

ManifunkDestiny posted:

President Smoothbrain chimed in:

I shouldn't be surprised at this point, but :pseudo:

# ? Mar 12, 2019 15:24

entity119: May 13, 2003; Memory can change the shape of a room; it can change the color of a car. And memories can be distorted. They're just an interpretation, they're not a record, and they're irrelevant if you have the facts.

And that pilot, was not, Albert Einstein

# ? Mar 12, 2019 15:28

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# ? May 24, 2024 22:05

sellouts: Apr 23, 2003

https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/Pages/DCA19MA086.aspx

NTSB says the Atlas 767 went into the ground due to control stick input.

# ? Mar 12, 2019 16:05

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Automotive Insanity > Aeronautical Insanity: switching to secondary tolerances

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