|
I should read more as I've encountered words like sashay, gyrate, and commiserated that grabbed my interest in adding it into my ever expanding vocabulary  edit: is it okay to start your first novel despite not writing often but reading some prose sometimes? there's been an idea i really wanna write out that makes so much sense as a novel but i don't know where to start. it was also going to be a nanowrimo book until my laziness got the best of me. Fruity20 fucked around with this message at 20:13 on Mar 4, 2019 |
#
?
Mar 1, 2019 19:25
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 30, 2024 19:53 |
|
|
Fruity20 posted:I should read more as I've encountered words like sashay, gyrate, and commiserated that grabbed my interest in adding it into my ever expanding vocabulary Write. Just write it. If you fear you won’t do the story justice, ask yourself - how is not writing doing it justice?
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2019 23:38
|
|
|
No, the fiction police will find out and stop you! The fiction police is Doc Klock.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2019 01:26
|
|
|
lovely First Drafts by Anne Lamott I was linked this piece of advice for writing, I know it's been said many times in this thread before, but I really like how it's worded. Fairly inspirational for those (me) who are struggling to get past the hurdle of doing things poorly, and need to just write.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2019 20:38
|
|
|
Fashionable Jorts posted:lovely First Drafts by Anne Lamott Aw, crap, I wasn't expecting a comprehension test at the end! My first attempt at a novel is a funny state when the first third is more or less presentable, the next few chapters are quick first drafts, and the rest is loosely planned e.g. 'everyone panics, someone invents a cell phone'.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2019 21:58
|
|
|
SelenicMartian posted:Encouraging... Gotta make sure you retain it! I'm at a funny state where I know where I want to go, but have no idea how to get there. I think I need to just start writing the second half, then figure out an interesting way to set things up. I've completely re-written the beginning of it four times now, trying different things.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2019 22:14
|
|
|
Fashionable Jorts posted:lovely First Drafts by Anne Lamott This is amazing. BTW, I’ve read Stephen King’s On Writing at least 3 times and that’s very similar to what he says. If you haven’t read it, you should. Anyway, he says the first draft is the “door closed” draft that nobody else should see. NOBODY. Then you let it sit, come back to it, rewrite/edit, then the second draft is what you can start to show to people. The first draft is just to get the drat thing out of your head.
|
|
#
?
Mar 9, 2019 22:25
|
|
|
So I"m looking for advice on a specific thing. I write a scene, then I go back and chop it down to make sure I'm not wasting anybody's time. I make sure that I mention enough about the geographical layout of a room if it's important for an impending action scene, or the details of a plot significant object or whatever, and I make sure there's nothing extraneous. Then I'm left with the most svelte version of a scene, but how do I know if that is enough or if I should beef the scene up some for tension reasons or whatever? Like in particular the scene I'm doing is a heist scene from point of entry to the smash and grab and jumping out a window or what have you. Does anybody have any advice for knowing when a scene is lengthy enough to let whatever tension or action play out for the right amount without overstaying it's welcome? I'm much more likely to err on the 'too short' side of things personally. Additionally, if you do feel like a scene needs a bit more oomph how do you go about adding quality detail without adding waste? I could spend more time describing minute facial expressions in a tense moment where the protag is hoping his secret identity isn't discovered or whatever, but I'm always worried that I'm just putting in dumb poo poo that isn't needed.
|
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2019 04:44
|
|
|
Agent355 posted:So I”m looking for advice on a specific thing. I hate to post what feels like a cop-out answer but the best advice I’ve ever followed when wondering this is read a lot. Read stuff you like, then go back and read it again and pay attention to what the author focuses on. Try move beyond thinking “wow this works, it’s great” into trying to piece together why it works. If you’re worried about scene length, find a bunch of scenes that you really like and (if you’re reading an ebook) copy them into a document and see how long they are. If you’re writing a heist story, read heist stories that you enjoy and get a feel for those authors’ rhythms.
|
|
#
?
Mar 10, 2019 07:42
|
|
|
Yeah I think so too. I do read alot already but I was hoping somebody had any sort of rule of thumb or whatever but ultimately it's just going to come down to mouth feel. I'll just see how it feels after a second or third draft.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2019 22:54
|
|
|
Agent355 posted:Yeah I think so too. I do read alot already but I was hoping somebody had any sort of rule of thumb or whatever but ultimately it's just going to come down to mouth feel. I'll just see how it feels after a second or third draft. I struggle with it too. I think it just kind of comes as you develop your style. I've had it explained to me that you want to keep it to the minimum that the reader needs to see a scene in their head. For instance, you don't want to write something like "John reached out his left hand, placed it on the knob, and then turned, thus opening the door." when you could just say "John left the room". Does the door really matter? If it does, you could say "John ducked out the back door." "Everyone reading knows how doors work - you don't have to describe it." was feedback I've gotten, so I've really been paying attention to focusing on the details that *do* matter. Since it's in my mind lately, I've been paying attention in the things I read. I've noticed that Roger Zelazny is the master of tight description. He can describe an entire scene with only a couple of well chosen nouns and adjectives. Stephen King does this too (hold that thought). He can describe an entire downtown simply by mentioning a few store window signs and local color. His problem is that he keeps on going when he doesn't have to. But that's his thing, so I don't fault him for it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2019 00:27
|
|
|
Doctor Zero posted:I struggle with it too. I think it just kind of comes as you develop your style. I've had it explained to me that you want to keep it to the minimum that the reader needs to see a scene in their head. For instance, you don't want to write something like "John reached out his left hand, placed it on the knob, and then turned, thus opening the door." when you could just say "John left the room". Does the door really matter? If it does, you could say "John ducked out the back door." That's lovely writing but, contextually, going all in can absolutely add to a scene. Economy of words is good, but it's not always going to achieve the desired effect and sometimes can actively hurt a scene. There's no hard rules on any of this. It's all just about how you want to control your pacing and pauses - which is why you gotta just read more, and read with an analytic mind.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2019 16:46
|
|
|
I no joke went through this whole door opening song-and-dance last night when trying to describe a guy sneaking through a partially opened door. I had like three or four sentences describing the movements of his fingers and his feet, then ended up whittling it down to: "Without daring to breathe, he gently peeled the door away from the frame and slipped into the office." Do I love it? No, not really. I'll probably end up cutting the adverb later in a rage, and then rewriting the whole sentence twice more. It might even end up with the adverb coming back in the end. For the moment, it's good enough for me to leave it and move on with the rest of the story. I can piss myself over the individual words later, but I've got the rest of the book to write first.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2019 04:12
|
|
|
Nae! posted:I no joke went through this whole door opening song-and-dance last night when trying to describe a guy sneaking through a partially opened door. I had like three or four sentences describing the movements of his fingers and his feet, then ended up whittling it down to: “Without daring to breathe, he gently peeled the door away from the frame and slipped into the office.” Yeah, this is how I do it. I have stuff I’m not thrilled with and action that doesn’t flow as smooth as I’d like it, but I just keep a dunning doc of stuff to fix in next draft. I’ll deal with it then. That way it helps give direction and consistency for the second draft anyhow. I tend to get lost up my own rear end if I let me go fix things in the midst of a project.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2019 05:17
|
|
|
So question for character motivation: i have this grimoire that records everything from magic spells, to mythical beast, and ancient artifacts. apparently, it's sapient and wants out main characters to gather knowledge in order to get their wishes granted. two of my characters have a similar motivation of breaking their respective curses (but one actually thinks their curse isn't really that bad while the other really wants to rid themselves of it). one character...kinda doesn't have a wish of their own. they're a literal fish out of water who left her home to learn more about the human world...and that's it. so what's the question? what are ways to make it feel more believable.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2019 17:23
|
|
|
Which part of that specifically did you want to make more believable? What is this grimoire's goal, what does it need with the whatever the things it demands are, why is it willing to exchange "wishes" for them? Also what are the limits on the powers of the wishes? If, say if can grant someone the ability to alter reality on command, that might be a bit too much power? Can it raise the dead? Conjure an interstellar spaceship with FTL drive? Can it alter history and change time? "Wishes" is a really powerful and vague thing.
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2019 20:50
|
|
|
Yeah, limitations and restrictions make things more believable since people are like that, and human technology is like that. Can it undo any curse or only a curse caused by a spell that's been written into the book and has therefore be discovered by the characters first? Maybe it's a thing with the grimoire that it's only useful when it has a full understanding of a problem, so if you want it to fix your bad overbite you need to rub it against a proper human skull? Does it need to consume a living person to know about healing people? What languages does it know? What senses does it have? If it has to be filled by hand, can anyone do it or only an expert? If somebody writes something wrong into it, what happens? Is it allergic to puns?
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2019 21:42
|
|
|
Fruity20 posted:So question for character motivation: i have this grimoire that records everything from magic spells, to mythical beast, and ancient artifacts. apparently, it's sapient and wants our main characters to gather knowledge in order to get their wishes granted. two of my characters have a similar motivation of breaking their respective curses (but one actually thinks their curse isn't really that bad while the other really wants to rid themselves of it). one character...kinda doesn't have a wish of their own. they're a literal fish out of water who left her home to learn more about the human world...and that's it. Your concept sounds believable, save for a few things. 1) How can the grimoire grant wishes, and why does it need our main character to gather knowledge. Why can't anyone else do it? Why can't it simply wish for more knowledge? 2) What's the limit of the grimoires powers? Does it record fact? Or what the grimoire think is fact from it's current holder? [You might want to look up Future Diary for neat interpretations of future-telling books] Really, believability is going to come from execution. If you have me invested in your characters and a wacky adventure, you will find people are more invested in them, then scoffing at a talking fish or talking grimoire. For character motivations, I'm a bit confused: 1) I don't understand how your characters interact with each other. Both have curses but one doesn't care about the curse. A third character is a fish out of water. Why does this matter? I don't see where the conflict is or the excitement beyond the general idea of curses and fishes. It sounds like you have one character's motivation figured out. They want the curse gone. You need to figure out the other characters motivations, and if they are going to generate conflict. (This method works for me, results not guaranteed) A) To break the curse you need the sacrifice of a creature cursed with the same curse, which is Character B(Person who's fine with the same curse.) Oh and did we mention Character C (Fish out of water)has an Eidetic Memory, beyond normal? Kind of sounds like the book doesn't it? I wonder if the book is trying to sacrifice character C to escape its curse? B) The grimoire records everything, so why is it including information about our protagonist that simply isn't true? Character B's father isn't Bob From Accounting? Oh wait, crap the book is telling the truth!! But then why does grimiore say the world ended 30 years ago, by Character C's hand?
|
|
#
?
Mar 13, 2019 23:05
|
|
|
Exmond posted:Your concept sounds believable, save for a few things. technically it can't grant wishes. it's really obsessed with knowledge to point that they're willing to pull strings to get their way. now technically a entity must be noteworthy and paranormal in origin to be recorded. travis, my vampire who's okay with his curse is from a cursed bloodline of people who cursed to become vampires during the night. so he does have a entry in the book that details his family history. but for it to record something it must grab a sample. the more samples you get from a creature, the more info the book collects. SelenicMartian posted:Yeah, limitations and restrictions make things more believable since people are like that, and human technology is like that. actually that's a good idea or plot point of sorts. since neither spells that gave them these curses are written in the book. so they have to find the people who curse them to reverse the curse. they're both dead sadly.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2019 00:06
|
|
|
It sounds like you're trying to do a pretty basic fantasy party type thing, where a whole bunch of chumps from different backgrounds all decide to hang out and deal with each others' snoring for whatever reason. It's pretty easy to find a justification for that, depending on what sort of story you're trying to tell. Maybe there's some side benefit to the Quest that makes the character want to join up, even if they don't care about the main goal--either it'll incidentally solve a problem they have (Sauron's been driving down the value of my Minas Tirith time share!) or it's a convenient way for them to get something they want (I can't wait to hit every Pokestop on the way to Rivendell!). Maybe they use it as an excuse to get out of an unpleasant situation, a sort of 'anything is better than this' deal. Maybe they're inspired and want to tag along to witness the exploits of these extremely cool chumps, or want some of that fame for themselves, or see some other kind of opportunity for greatness/profit/inspiration/knowledge/free Wendy's.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2019 00:22
|
|
|
Djeser posted:It sounds like you're trying to do a pretty basic fantasy party type thing, where a whole bunch of chumps from different backgrounds all decide to hang out and deal with each others' snoring for whatever reason. It's pretty easy to find a justification for that, depending on what sort of story you're trying to tell. Maybe there's some side benefit to the Quest that makes the character want to join up, even if they don't care about the main goal--either it'll incidentally solve a problem they have (Sauron's been driving down the value of my Minas Tirith time share!) or it's a convenient way for them to get something they want (I can't wait to hit every Pokestop on the way to Rivendell!). Maybe they use it as an excuse to get out of an unpleasant situation, a sort of 'anything is better than this' deal. Maybe they're inspired and want to tag along to witness the exploits of these extremely cool chumps, or want some of that fame for themselves, or see some other kind of opportunity for greatness/profit/inspiration/knowledge/free Wendy's. it's urban fantasy and the main characters apart from one are teens.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2019 00:53
|
|
|
Same advice applies to anything where you've got a "party" going on. Heck, you could even apply it to something like a heist story, where the "quest" is the heist and the "party" is everyone assembled to do the job. The Big Thing What The Story's About should have some relation to all the characters' motivations, but they don't all have to be trying to achieve The Big Thing. Some more general advice for character motivation is to consider what a character wants or holds dear, and to put them in a position where they don't have what they want or the thing they hold dear is in danger. It's some very generic advice, but if you're struggling to figure out how to fit a character into a story, it's a good place to start.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2019 01:11
|
|
|
The guys behind Welcome to Night Vale are starting a writing podcast in a week, with home assignments. http://www.nightvalepresents.com/startwiththis
|
|
#
?
Mar 15, 2019 21:36
|
|
|
^ oh neat! ey, for any of you writers out there, should just plow through a draft in one sitting or take a break then go back and write? my perfectionism is preventing me from actually writing something.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2019 16:28
|
|
|
For flash fiction, I usually do it all in one sitting. For anything above like, 3k words or so, I'll usually take a break or two while writing just because I tend to get stiff and want to get up after a while. When I'm working on long form stuff, I usually do about as much as I've got planned out in however many sittings it takes, then stop for a while to sort my thoughts out for the next bit before starting up again.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2019 16:36
|
|
|
I usually do one sitting because I find that losing the momentum kind of ruins my train of thought. I type pretty fast though and can usually plow through 2500 words in a sitting no problem One longer piece of 7500 words I did all at once in an afternoon just because I was in the zone but other than naniwrimo I haven’t done longer than that yet E: and you HAVE to kill that perfectionism. That was my struggle for a long time. It’s more deadly than anything else.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2019 16:50
|
|
|
Doctor Zero posted:
indeed. it's freaking hard too. I get super panicked when i can't think of anything without cringing.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2019 16:56
|
|
|
Fruity20 posted:^ oh neat! Ive only written novels so I would not do that in one sitting, no. But if I were writing 3000-4000 words and I had an uninterrupted day, I might give it a try. My highest output was a 9,500 word day a few years back, but I'd never bet on myself to reproduce that on demand because that's a guaranteed way to set myself up to fail.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2019 18:14
|
|
|
Fruity20 posted:ey, for any of you writers out there, should just plow through a draft in one sitting or take a break then go back and write? Whether you take a break or try it all in one sitting is irrelevant: you need to overcome the desire to not write unless it's perfect in your eyes the first time. I think understanding that that's an illusion in the first place might help. You can be more or less happy with the very first version of some passage you set down, but you'll almost always be able to improve it on further rumination, so either way, there's work to be done after the draft is finished. When I write something that I had as an idea in my head and it comes out as garbage, I just cringe and move on until I'm out of steam with the day's writing as a whole. Sometimes I even skip over minor structural paras that need to be there but don't excite me at the moment, in favour of heading towards what does; I'll come back to those later. When I figure out how to progress in a story, I usually have a full a scene or wider plot point that's occurred to me as part of that understanding that I'm trying to capture. As long as I have that down, even in the broadest sketch, I know I can polish towards a better representation of that structural goal later even with the whole being incomplete. But the moment I have another opportunity to move forward I take it, because you can polish at any time.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2019 20:59
|
|
|
Nae! posted:a guaranteed way to set myself up to fail. Wait, I was given to believe this is precisely what we were doing here.  Like, that could be the thread title.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2019 21:01
|
|
|
Your first draft is basically a sketch, which is something a lot of people forget. Sketches aren't going to be perfect, but they don't have to be, because they're guides for when you come back and refine all the lines. Also, what helped me a lot is realizing that it's not that good writers don't write bad stories, it's that good writers write so many stories that they can hide the mountains of bad ones behind the couple of decent ones.
|
|
#
?
Mar 19, 2019 21:44
|
|
|
One thing that helps me is to remember that my first draft is for me and me alone. It doesn’t have to be perfect because absolutely nobody other than maybe a tiny handful of close friends will ever see that poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2019 01:03
|
|
|
Anomalous Blowout posted:One thing that helps me is to remember that my first draft is for me and me alone. It doesn’t have to be perfect because absolutely nobody other than maybe a tiny handful of close friends will ever see that poo poo. IMO nobody should ever see the very first draft, but I'll write a first-draft with such tunnel vision that there are continuity errors all over the place. I know to go back and fix them, but it won't make sense to somebody else.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2019 02:14
|
|
|
Djeser posted:Also, what helped me a lot is realizing that it's not that good writers don't write bad stories, it's that good writers write so many stories that they can hide the mountains of bad ones behind the couple of decent ones. Yeah, it's hard to overstate how much just writing a lot does for developing the craft -- not just improving skills and developing good work habits, but removing the immense emotional commitment to MY ONE PROJECT, MUST BE PERFECT that leads to perfectionism and general creative paralysis. Write a lot of crap, because it's better to have it written and crappy/revisable than just the ideal unattainable vision forever, and if it's really not working, you can drop it and move on instead of obsessing.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2019 07:41
|
|
|
Thunderdome is not perfect as a writing school but it really does help get you over that initial hump of just cranking out a bunch of bullshit.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2019 11:51
|
|
|
I found an online group on discord that does writing circle's - live reading of your story. The crits you get are a bit better than other online communities, and they aren't scared to tell you "This is a first draft and it needs lot of improvement". The fact that its a small community, when you sign up to the circle you kind of commit, eases some of the pressure off, at least for me.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2019 15:38
|
|
|
Exmond posted:I found an online group on discord that does writing circle's - live reading of your story. The crits you get are a bit better than other online communities, and they aren't scared to tell you "This is a first draft and it needs lot of improvement". Yeah, the discord writing groups I've been a part of have been pretty helpful, though I found having a real-life group has been the biggest help to get me to want to just write and bring something to read, and they've been super helpful. Also there's something about being face-to-face that I think helps make the critique more direct and holds people accountable to act reasonable (though I guess that hasn't been that big issue online), and it just feels more "connecting"" being across a table from someone. though I realize not everyone is in a place where they can do a RL group.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2019 22:32
|
|
|
Foolster41 posted:Yeah, the discord writing groups I've been a part of have been pretty helpful, though I found having a real-life group has been the biggest help to get me to want to just write and bring something to read, and they've been super helpful. Also there's something about being face-to-face that I think helps make the critique more direct and holds people accountable to act reasonable (though I guess that hasn't been that big issue online), and it just feels more "connecting"" being across a table from someone. i'm a extremely introverted person who has troubling talking to people. so i guess sort of screwed. my best option is getting a mentor that can speak me how to speak clearly.
|
|
#
?
Mar 20, 2019 23:05
|
|
|
Fruity20 posted:i'm a extremely introverted person who has troubling talking to people. so i guess sort of screwed. my best option is getting a mentor that can speak me how to speak clearly. Maybe I was being a bit overly forceful on the "this is helpful" part and should have been more emphisizing "for me". I'm somewhat introvered myself, and it did take getting used to going to a RL group, but one-on-one writing frineds is gtreat, or as Exmond said discord/online groups can be really useful. Online groups with mic chat is a good between text based online and RL groups, since it has the sort of barrier of talking online. but speaking/hearing has that sort of "connection" like RL groups. I'm a part of one on second life one that I was in before I found my RL group, and that did take getting used to reading outloud (though a lot of times groups will have people glad to read stuff for you too).
|
|
#
?
Mar 21, 2019 00:30
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 30, 2024 19:53 |
|
|
How do you write a compelling femme fatale? Or in this case, I have this male assassin that works for a genetic engineering company. The reasons he works for them is mainly to find a cure for his condition (Which is he's part gorgon). Now largely he doesn't seduce often cuz I fear it might be problematic because male sexuality and what not...idk. I just don't like offending people or having folks fill my inbox with complaints about his character.
|
|
#
?
Mar 24, 2019 05:08
|
|