Coding Horrors: You can gather all your technical debt into one easy framework!

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > The Cavern of COBOL > Coding Horrors: You can gather all your technical debt into one easy framework!

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xtal: Jan 9, 2011; by Fluffdaddy

Telyra posted:

I do like that we're basically seeing from open sourced Windows components like this what everyone who thinks things through past "TELEMETRY EVIL NSA SPYWARE" expected: they're looking at poo poo like how many people actually use the memory and bitflip features in the calculator.

I don't understand this because it isn't anywhere near a sentence, but there is no excuse for spyware to be in your calculator.

# ? Mar 8, 2019 00:33

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# ? May 21, 2024 09:41

qsvui: Aug 23, 2003; some crazy thing

He wasn't saying there was? :confused:

# ? Mar 8, 2019 04:39

dougdrums: Feb 25, 2005; CLIENT REQUESTED ELECTRONIC FUNDING RECEIPT (FUNDS NOW)

Telemetry in the calculator is a bit ridiculous, like what kind of meetings are they having at MSFT where they need to make business decisions based on calculator telemetry.

telemetry pr posted:

An example of something that is tracked: how long it takes for the app to launch. Statistical analysis of that data enables us to determine how to improve the product, especially if we are able to associate a change in launch time to a specific changelist.

Hahahahaha

Soricidus posted:

loving hell seeing that screenshot on the calc repo reminded me just how hideous "modern windows apps" are.

When I was a teenager I would make winforms programs with 'none' as the window style, and replace everything with 1px borders, flat grey backgrounds, and my own mouse handling stuff. I'm flattered that the UI designers think it's good today.

dougdrums fucked around with this message at 06:41 on Mar 8, 2019

# ? Mar 8, 2019 06:28

Hammerite: Mar 9, 2007; And you don't remember what I said here, either, but it was pompous and stupid.; Jade Ear Joe

xtal posted:

I don't understand this because it isn't anywhere near a sentence, but there is no excuse for spyware to be in your calculator.

quote:

I do like that we're basically seeing from open sourced Windows components like this what everyone who thinks things through past "TELEMETRY EVIL NSA SPYWARE" expected: they're looking at poo poo like how many people actually use the memory and bitflip features in the calculator.

It is a needlessly convoluted sentence, but it is a valid sentence and it is perfectly understandable. Here as an exercise I have broken down its meaning:

1) Microsoft are gathering telemetry and using it to observe "poo poo like how many people actually use the memory and bitflip features in the calculator", i.e. they are looking narrowly at what functions within the app are used.
2) Some people's reaction to the existence of telemetry gathering was, "TELEMETRY EVIL NSA SPYWARE"...
3) ... but some people "thought it through", and their expectation was that what was actually happening is what is described in (1), instead.
4) The poster finds enjoyment of some sort in this ("I like that...").

# ? Mar 8, 2019 10:23

pokeyman: Nov 26, 2006; That elephant ate my entire platoon.

I lost it at "the calculator team". There�s a whole loving calculator team? How much you wanna bet Apple's calculator "team" is two hours of one developer's time per year to see if it still works.

(The Russians used a pencil etc.)

# ? Mar 8, 2019 13:44

Munkeymon: Aug 14, 2003; Motherfucker's got an
armor-piercing crowbar! Rigoddamndicu𝜆ous.

pokeyman posted:

I lost it at "the calculator team". There�s a whole loving calculator team? How much you wanna bet Apple's calculator "team" is two hours of one developer's time per year to see if it still works.

(The Russians used a pencil etc.)

So you're annoyed that the level of effort required to support it scales with user count?

# ? Mar 8, 2019 15:16

Hammerite: Mar 9, 2007; And you don't remember what I said here, either, but it was pompous and stupid.; Jade Ear Joe

pokeyman posted:

I lost it at "the calculator team". There�s a whole loving calculator team? How much you wanna bet Apple's calculator "team" is two hours of one developer's time per year to see if it still works.

(The Russians used a pencil etc.)

Calling the group that has responsibility for Calc.exe "the calculator team" doesn't really imply that Calc.exe is the only thing they are responsible for.

They might maintain both Calc.exe AND winmine.exe for all you know

# ? Mar 8, 2019 15:19

Joda: Apr 24, 2010; When I'm off, I just like to really let go and have fun, y'know?; Fun Shoe

Man who only had the luxury of being on team X and only having X as a responsibility.

# ? Mar 8, 2019 15:21

Volguus: Mar 3, 2009

pokeyman posted:

I lost it at "the calculator team". There�s a whole loving calculator team? How much you wanna bet Apple's calculator "team" is two hours of one developer's time per year to see if it still works.

(The Russians used a pencil etc.)

You may like this blog post then: http://moishelettvin.blogspot.com/2006/11/windows-shutdown-crapfest.html

# ? Mar 8, 2019 15:57

CPColin: Sep 9, 2003; Big ol' smile.

Holy poo poo, the article that prompted that one is terrible.

# ? Mar 8, 2019 16:38

Hargrimm: Sep 22, 2011; W A R R E N

CPColin posted:

Holy poo poo, the article that prompted that one is terrible.

Love to press the "b'bye button" and plunge my computer into an unknowable quantum power state

# ? Mar 8, 2019 18:34

pokeyman: Nov 26, 2006; That elephant ate my entire platoon.

Munkeymon posted:

So you're annoyed that the level of effort required to support it scales with user count?

At what rate do you think the support needs for an offline-only desk calculator app with a feature set from 1973 scales?

Joda posted:

Man who only had the luxury of being on team X and only having X as a responsibility.

Being on the calculator team sounds like a cushy gig!

Volguus posted:

You may like this blog post then: http://moishelettvin.blogspot.com/2006/11/windows-shutdown-crapfest.html

I do!

# ? Mar 8, 2019 21:27

taqueso: Mar 8, 2004

This would have been a great opportunity for them to sell naming rights, so it could be the 'TI-89 Calculator(tm) for Windows 10'.

# ? Mar 8, 2019 21:30

dougdrums: Feb 25, 2005; CLIENT REQUESTED ELECTRONIC FUNDING RECEIPT (FUNDS NOW)

pokeyman posted:

At what rate do you think the support needs for an offline-only desk calculator app with a feature set from 1973 scales?

But it uses bing to do currency conversion!

I can't stop laughing at that repo. Clearly the parts that take it so long to load are the parts that make it look like this:

Only registered members can see post attachments!

# ? Mar 8, 2019 21:34

hackbunny: Jul 22, 2007; I haven't been on SA for years but the person who gave me my previous av as a joke felt guilty for doing so and decided to get me a non-shitty av

I love that it's, at its core, the same old Calculator. The math engine has a 1995 copyright, which places it in the Windows NT 4 era. Makes sense, because, if I remember my Raymond Chen correctly, that's when they switched from IEEE floating point to infinite precision math

# ? Mar 8, 2019 21:52

Munkeymon: Aug 14, 2003; Motherfucker's got an
armor-piercing crowbar! Rigoddamndicu𝜆ous.

What the christ are you doing with your machine that you get a noticeable delay loading calc.exe? This thing has no free memory right now and it still loads near-instantly.

# ? Mar 8, 2019 21:54

dougdrums: Feb 25, 2005; CLIENT REQUESTED ELECTRONIC FUNDING RECEIPT (FUNDS NOW)

I haven't used windows since 7 but that's the reason they gave for telemetry :shrug:

I use python when I need a calculator. I wonder the same thing.

# ? Mar 9, 2019 00:31

Scaramouche: Mar 26, 2001; SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

Munkeymon posted:

What the christ are you doing with your machine that you get a noticeable delay loading calc.exe? This thing has no free memory right now and it still loads near-instantly.

It's actually p slow to start for me sometimes (2-3 sec), but I'm not sure if that's related to how I'm spawning it (dedicated little Calc key on my Microsoft keyboard)

# ? Mar 9, 2019 02:02

necrotic: Aug 2, 2005; I owe my brother big time for this!

I just keep it open an alt tab. Takes about as long as hitting Windows key, typing Cal and hitting enter.

# ? Mar 9, 2019 02:30

Factor Mystic: Mar 20, 2006; Baby's First Post-Apocalyptic Fiction

pokeyman posted:

At what rate do you think the support needs for an offline-only desk calculator app with a feature set from 1973 scales?

Not sure if you're joking or not:

Now obviously most of the conversions are fixed factors, but they all have various options associated with them. And then the currency converter needs to get data from somewhere (apparently a http request from glancing at the code), so there's an async network operation, and they cache it, so now you've got to deal with that, and pretty quick you've got a real app. And, does your team own the web service or someone else? If it's you, now you've got a whole other job. If it's someone else, now you have to pay attention for when whatever it is changes (which is effectively a guarantee over the life of the support of an OS built in app).

# ? Mar 9, 2019 03:43

dougdrums: Feb 25, 2005; CLIENT REQUESTED ELECTRONIC FUNDING RECEIPT (FUNDS NOW)

These are pretty much interview problems and they're buggy:
https://github.com/Microsoft/calculator/issues/177
https://github.com/Microsoft/calculator/issues/178

E: I guess I've hosed up the date one before, but I also knew a guy who could do it in his head, so I guess it's just luck of the draw.

dougdrums fucked around with this message at 03:54 on Mar 9, 2019

# ? Mar 9, 2019 03:48

Bruegels Fuckbooks: Sep 14, 2004; Now, listen - I know the two of you are very different from each other in a lot of ways, but you have to understand that as far as Grandpa's concerned, you're both pieces of shit! Yeah. I can prove it mathematically.

Munkeymon posted:

What the christ are you doing with your machine that you get a noticeable delay loading calc.exe? This thing has no free memory right now and it still loads near-instantly.

Just do windows key + R, calc, and watch how long it takes the window to show onscreen. Compare it with say, windows + R, notepad. Notepad shows up nearly instantly imperceptibly fast, I'd estimate calc shows up in about 400 ms on my windows 10 laptop with an SSD just eyeballing it.

# ? Mar 9, 2019 05:39

Ellie Crabcakes: Feb 1, 2008; Stop emailing my boyfriend Gay Crungus

you put calc.exe on your eyeball to get high on math?

# ? Mar 9, 2019 06:23

Soricidus: Oct 21, 2010; freedom-hating statist shill

calc takes ages to start up because I can never remember the command so I have to wait days or sometimes weeks for a security researcher to publish a new exploit poc

# ? Mar 9, 2019 10:49

toiletbrush: May 17, 2010

dougdrums posted:

These are pretty much interview problems and they're buggy:
https://github.com/Microsoft/calculator/issues/177
https://github.com/Microsoft/calculator/issues/178

E: I guess I've hosed up the date one before, but I also knew a guy who could do it in his head, so I guess it's just luck of the draw.

One of the best devs I've worked with recently had a bug in production where he calculated the first day of the next month by doing

code:

	var firstDayOfNextMonth = new DateTime(date.Year, date.Month + 1, 1);

Sometimes the simplest bits of code are the easiest to gently caress up.

# ? Mar 9, 2019 15:49

RedZone: Dec 6, 2005

code:

INSERT INTO dbo.SomeTable( rId, sId, tId, type, created )
    VALUES  (@id, NULL, CASE @status WHEN 2 THEN 1 WHEN 5 THEN 2 WHEN 3 THEN 7 ELSE 8 END, @type, GETUTCDATE() )

From one of our stored procs (table name/columns changed)

# ? Mar 9, 2019 16:41

Dirty Frank: Jul 8, 2004

toiletbrush posted:

One of the best devs I've worked with recently had a bug in production where he calculated the first day of the next month by doing
code:
	var firstDayOfNextMonth = new DateTime(date.Year, date.Month + 1, 1);
Sometimes the simplest bits of code are the easiest to gently caress up.

So... whats the correct way? The issue is year rollarround? does DateTime not take care of that?

I must be the best dev! :downs:

# ? Mar 10, 2019 08:03

dick traceroute: Feb 24, 2010; Open the pod bay doors, Hal.; Grimey Drawer

Dirty Frank posted:

So... whats the correct way? The issue is year rollarround? does DateTime not take care of that?

I must be the best dev!

Yeah it's the rollover, Month property is just an int

This would be fine, probably cleverer ways:

code:


var firstDayOfNextMonth = new DateTime(date.Year, date.AddMonths(1).Month, 1);

# ? Mar 10, 2019 08:37

VikingofRock: Aug 24, 2008

dick traceroute posted:

Yeah it's the rollover, Month property is just an int

This would be fine, probably cleverer ways:
code:
var firstDayOfNextMonth = new DateTime(date.Year, date.AddMonths(1).Month, 1);

I would think you'd need to be careful with the year as well, or else e.g. the first-of-next-month for December 21st, 2018 would be January 1st, 2018.

# ? Mar 10, 2019 08:47

Gallatin: Sep 20, 2004

dick traceroute posted:

Yeah it's the rollover, Month property is just an int

This would be fine, probably cleverer ways:
code:
var firstDayOfNextMonth = new DateTime(date.Year, date.AddMonths(1).Month, 1);

same mistake, try this:

code:

var firstDayNextMonth = new DateTime(date.Year, date.Month, 1).AddMonths(1);

e: ^ nice

# ? Mar 10, 2019 08:49

dick traceroute: Feb 24, 2010; Open the pod bay doors, Hal.; Grimey Drawer

Gallatin posted:

same mistake, try this:
code:
var firstDayNextMonth = new DateTime(date.Year, date.Month, 1).AddMonths(1);
e: ^ nice

Yep, don't write code just after you wake up
I'll turn my screen off

# ? Mar 10, 2019 10:39

toiletbrush: May 17, 2010

Dirty Frank posted:

So... whats the correct way? The issue is year rollarround? does DateTime not take care of that?

I must be the best dev!

Yeah, DateTime complains if you give it a month of 13 when you add 1 to December.

Some people might expect it to do mod 12 or something, but it's good that it doesn't IMHO, code that says 'your arguments are invalid, so I'll assume you probably meant...' is dangerous as hell

# ? Mar 10, 2019 12:13

Hammerite: Mar 9, 2007; And you don't remember what I said here, either, but it was pompous and stupid.; Jade Ear Joe

God drat XAML, and context menus in particular. You want to do something that depends on the DataContext of a parent of the control whose context menu you're setting? gently caress you, go get a master's degree in how WPF works and then we'll talk.

# ? Mar 11, 2019 20:51

Thermopyle: Jul 1, 2003; ...the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt. �Bertrand Russell

So, to get at some 25-year-old data in an Access database, I installed Office 97 in an XP VM.

The problem I ran into was that anytime I try to start Access, it says no license found on the machine. Some Googling led me to the solution.

Remove HATTEN.TTF, reinstall office, problem solved.

Anyone have any clue as to why a font file caused this problem?

# ? Mar 12, 2019 01:58

ultrafilter: Aug 23, 2007; It's okay if you have any questions.

Trying to understand the inner workings of anything Microsoft made in the 90s is a bad idea.

# ? Mar 12, 2019 02:01

Volguus: Mar 3, 2009

ultrafilter posted:

Trying to understand the inner workings of anything Microsoft made in the 90s is a bad idea.

You're talking like now they're better. Look at their just open-sourced calculator.

# ? Mar 12, 2019 02:32

SupSuper: Apr 8, 2009; At the Heart of the city is an Alien horror, so vile and so powerful that not even death can claim it.

Thermopyle posted:

So, to get at some 25-year-old data in an Access database, I installed Office 97 in an XP VM.

The problem I ran into was that anytime I try to start Access, it says no license found on the machine. Some Googling led me to the solution.

Remove HATTEN.TTF, reinstall office, problem solved.

Anyone have any clue as to why a font file caused this problem?

I assume it's an Office font so if Access doesn't get to install its version (because another version was already there), for some reason it fails an integrity check.

# ? Mar 12, 2019 02:59

itskage: Aug 26, 2003

ultrafilter posted:

Trying to understand the inner workings of anything Microsoft made in the 90s is a bad idea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qC_iOYvTBYM&t=158s

# ? Mar 12, 2019 04:28

Nude: Nov 16, 2014; I have no idea what I'm doing.

ultrafilter posted:

Trying to understand the inner workings of anything Microsoft made in the 90s is a bad idea.

itskage posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qC_iOYvTBYM&t=158s

I appreciate this; it's a good response to any kind of :stare:

code.

# ? Mar 12, 2019 05:36

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# ? May 21, 2024 09:41

Cuntpunch: Oct 3, 2003; A monkey in a long line of kings

Hammerite posted:

God drat XAML, and context menus in particular. You want to do something that depends on the DataContext of a parent of the control whose context menu you're setting? gently caress you, go get a master's degree in how WPF works and then we'll talk.

It's been a little bit since I've touched WPF.

Just to understand the hierarchy:

code:

ParentControl
-DataContext
-ChildControl
--DataContext
--ContextMenu

If so, doesn't the ChildControl inherently have a dependency on whatever out of the parent DataContext and needs that provided in a property, so that it in turn can provide it to the ContextMenu? Which is to say: Doesn't ChildControl get everything it needs to function out of the ParentControl's DataContext?

# ? Mar 12, 2019 11:30

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