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Dawgstar posted:I've been thinking about running Masks and while it's a pretty broad subject, I wouldn't mind hearing anybody's tips on how to make it work. One I already know is encouraging people to pick the playbook for the story, not the powers, which helped me as a player but what's some stuff to keep in mind behind the screen? I found Chapters 7-9 in the Masks Core to have really good advice, both for Masks in the specific themes that it's going for but also for PbtA games in general; that said I do agree that reading Apocalypse World and other progenitors helps give you a view into the kind of things that are common between PbtA hacks (like the conversation, and playing to find out what happens, etc.).
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Mar 12, 2019 02:31
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Dawgstar posted:I've been thinking about running Masks and while it's a pretty broad subject, I wouldn't mind hearing anybody's tips on how to make it work. One I already know is encouraging people to pick the playbook for the story, not the powers, which helped me as a player but what's some stuff to keep in mind behind the screen? The designer of Masks wrote a two part article on picking the right moves in PbtA games, but it focuses on Masks for the examples and is pretty good food for thought when you're running the game: https://www.magpiegames.com/2016/03/17/picking-the-right-gm-move-in-pbta-part-one/ https://www.magpiegames.com/2016/03/31/picking-the-right-gm-move-in-pbta-part-two/
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Mar 12, 2019 02:42
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spectralent posted:I feel like Defy Danger is a golden example of why you should look very carefully at the necessity and implementation of Act Under Fire in a game, frankly.
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Mar 12, 2019 04:13
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I mean, 77 has taken a hit or get out of the way to deal with combat stuff, which is 90% of the use of defy danger anyway. And they’re not exactly DND stats, +soul doesn’t map to anything.
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Mar 12, 2019 04:26
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Thanks for your responses, that makes sense. I'll definitely pick up AW when I've got some spare cash.
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Mar 12, 2019 05:06
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megane posted:This is pretty much exactly the problem with Defy Danger. As written, it's basically "When you do basically anything, roll whatever stat you can convince the GM might apply." This is exacerbated by DW's use of D&D stats, which overlap a lot and are subject to a lot of interpretation, the mental ones especially. Pop quiz: come up with a situation where I can roll Wis to defy, but can't justify rolling Int. Hell, think of a situation where exactly one stat obviously works and none of the others do. PbtA moves work best when they're sharply defined: it should be clear whether the move applies or not, and what will happen if so. Whereas defy danger is barely even a move; it's a template for a move. "Roll [Stat] to [do thing] or avoid [bad thing]." The text even admits it's a nebulous catch-all. Every Basic Move in a game should help stake out what kind of game it is, and it just doesn't do that.
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Mar 12, 2019 15:05
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So I like Powered by the Apocalypse mechanics, but don't like inter-party disharmony, and don't want to play Dungeon World, I should play...
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Mar 12, 2019 16:51
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CitizenKeen posted:So I like Powered by the Apocalypse mechanics, but don't like inter-party disharmony, and don't want to play Dungeon World, I should play... EDIT: But for the record, "inter-party disharmony" is loving awesome. Every Apocalypse World campaign (or even one-shot) I've run has had some element of PCs working at cross-purposes, and a few of them have had PCs eventually fall into the role of straight-up villain. In every case it has made for fantastic role-playing. In our current game, the Gunlugger has gone almost-but-not-quite-entirely-off-the-rails, effectively declaring martial law and setting himself up as the new sheriff in town (he took the "get a hold" advance). Given that he's essentially a religious zealot who holds views not necessarily shared by the rest of the party, this has made for some fascinating (and hilarious) inter-party dynamics. Ilor fucked around with this message at 17:34 on Mar 12, 2019 |
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Mar 12, 2019 17:27
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Merilan posted:I found Chapters 7-9 in the Masks Core to have really good advice, both for Masks in the specific themes that it's going for but also for PbtA games in general; that said I do agree that reading Apocalypse World and other progenitors helps give you a view into the kind of things that are common between PbtA hacks (like the conversation, and playing to find out what happens, etc.). Heliotrope posted:The designer of Masks wrote a two part article on picking the right moves in PbtA games, but it focuses on Masks for the examples and is pretty good food for thought when you're running the game: These are both great suggestions, thank you. The bit from the designer himself explains handily why the very first Masks game I was in flopped as the GM felt like he was trying to run it more like like, say, Mutants and Masterminds but with PbtA rules. Very little conversation between characters but a lot of "I look for clues, so I'll roll Superior" (or whatever).
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Mar 12, 2019 17:35
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Would Dungeon World play better if Defy Danger was just outright replaced with Evade Danger (uses Dex, gets you out of the way) and Stand Your Ground (uses Con, tries to withstand a major blow) to cover the two most common uses and ditch most of the ambiguity? Or is the issue a deeper problem with the stats themselves?
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Mar 12, 2019 18:56
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That's an improvement, sure. But also, yes, it would be more of an improvement to back up a few steps, rethink the stats completely, and then put this move on one of them. Six stats is way too many; four would be much better, and I would try to pull away from the physical-description style D&D uses since PbtA stats are more like... styles or approaches, I guess. Having a high Hard could mean you're this giant super-buff dude, but it could also mean you're a Machiavellian politician who views others as pawns, or a terrifying weirdo who'll loving bite somebody at the drop of a hat. What matters is the moves keyed to it; when you go on someone, they flinch, but it's up to you exactly why that is.
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Mar 12, 2019 19:55
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CitizenKeen posted:So I like Powered by the Apocalypse mechanics, but don't like inter-party disharmony, and don't want to play Dungeon World, I should play... I'm not convinced that playing AW requires inter-party disharmony. I'm one of Ilor's players and I enjoy a little inter-party conflict as much as he does, but we've had plenty of sessions where everyone got along, and I never felt like the game broke as a result. It just doesn't expect or require everyone to form a close-knit party. That said, while I haven't played it, Fellowship does seem like a really interesting way of taking PbtA concepts and applying them to epic fantasy.
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Mar 12, 2019 20:32
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Apocalypse World definitely doesn't demand inter-PC conflict in the same way that, say, 5E demands unity*, but if your PCs are always aligned and always in the same place to the point where every action allows for whoever is the best at something to make their move and have someone helping, the drama of the game will buckle under the weight of constant success. It's not too hard to shift that and the fail state of AW (bowling through challenge) is not as final as the fail state of 5E (TPK w/bad feels). *assuming you're playing as-written with combat encounters that expect a group of coordinated PCs
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Mar 12, 2019 20:38
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Sea Lily posted:Would Dungeon World play better if... [SNIP] Because of the way the moves and stats are paired, you're basically never in a situation where you'll "rarely roll+Hot" or "never roll+Sharp" or whatever. If you want to know what the gently caress is going on, trust me, you'll find a way to roll+Sharp. You can maybe get away with rarely rolling+Weird if your character concept is such that you don't engage with the game's pseudo-supernatural elements, but any good MC worth his or her salt is going to put you in situations where it comes into play. As such, unlike many traditional RPGs, Apocalypse World doesn't really have "dump stats" (like Charisma in D&D) that you can ignore because virtually none of the game's mechanics really touch on it. In AW, if your Hot is low you're generally unpersonable and a terrible liar, and that's going to be hilarious more often than you think.
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Mar 12, 2019 22:48
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I feel like the biggest issue with Defy Danger isn't that it's an easy safety net for the player but it's such for the GM. Literally everything you could possibly do is encapsulated under Defy Danger somewhere. Also dungeon world is bullshit because it allows damage dice to negate strong hits and adds double-randomness to players but not monsters (whose moves always happen).
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Mar 12, 2019 23:46
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Dungeon World is too good at resembling D&D.
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Mar 12, 2019 23:56
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Gave this some thought just for kicks. Here's my spread for DW SA Edition: Bold (or Defiant or Daring): this one gets the AUF analogue, which is called Break Through, and goes something like "when you press forward despite danger, yada yada." Fantasy heroes don't charge through arrows by being slick operators, they do it because they're brave and heedless of danger. Cunning: kind of a mix of Int, Dex, and Cha, for sneaking and lying and solving puzzles and whatever; AW doesn't have anything similar but that's because solving puzzles isn't really a thing in post-apoc. Wise: basically Sharp; roll to recall or notice things. Noble: something akin to Hx or Hot, for leadership and diplomacy and maybe doing holy magic and stuff. I think stats should be words you would just reflexively use to describe somebody in that genre, so all these are like The _____ Sir Brian. Plus they map nicely to the standard four classes; fighters are always Bold, rogues are always Cunning, etc. One thing I'm conflicted about is what to do about the Fight Guys moves. Everyone in D&D can fight, they just do it with fireballs or arrows or a big axe depending on their schtick. There are a couple of options for handling that, but I think maybe I'd make it so there isn't a basic move for fighting; instead every class gives you different ones. So the fighter gets Wade Into Melee which lets her cleave down hordes of goblins, the rogue gets Maneuver (for getting advantage) and then Assassinate (trade in your advantage to murder a big guy).
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Mar 13, 2019 00:00
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Fellowship deemphasized combat to the point where you can finish someone with every stat if you have a relevant Advantage. If you are reworking dungeon world you should revert hitpoints to the harm clock, that’s the biggest thing. Or allow a player to take 50% of their damage dice on success OR roll.
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Mar 13, 2019 00:37
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Oh yeah, damage dice are awful. And I do like how Fellowship does it, but D&D is a different animal than LotR. Finish Them makes combat into a game of talking and maneuvering until the heroes turn the tables and end it with one dramatic strike, which is great, but not always the right thing for D&D.
megane fucked around with this message at 00:44 on Mar 13, 2019 |
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Mar 13, 2019 00:42
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spectralent posted:I feel like the biggest issue with Defy Danger isn't that it's an easy safety net for the player but it's such for the GM. Literally everything you could possibly do is encapsulated under Defy Danger somewhere. Yeah, it really needed some good usage talk. DW does in general, but Defy Danger especially. You see people defaulting to bad calls like "Fightgar attacks five goblins! Now Fightgar rolls Defy Danger three times to dodge each remaining goblin!" when Hack And Slash already wrapped up all the combat danger inside itself. Defy Danger (and, honestly, the '77 equivalent of it) at least tries to communicate that all manner of weird poo poo will happen to you but dealing with it ain't no thang. Like, you walk down the dungeon stairs and see a fishman, so you cast magic missile at it, but it raises a hand, the darts freeze in the air, its third eye opens and it screams WIZARD BATTLE! and suddenly your BRAIN is playing tug of war with the OCEAN or some poo poo. But it's no big. Just Defy Danger and you're fine. Now that Blades exists, stapling controlled/risky/desperate onto various stats and scenarios people try to use with Defy Danger seems like just enough extra lean.
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Mar 13, 2019 00:58
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Back to the Planescape hack, what factions truly fight for are not resources like this node of pure life in Arborea or that factory producing infinite clockwork weaponry on Mechanus, what they truly fight for is the meaning of the multiverse. By imprinting their beliefs in the hearts of existence, they change reality to their own image. So, going with the Legacy framework here, each Age should be a fight to win the multiverse's heart, and state what the next age will be like. The winner defines reality. But how? Maybe the same way families in Legacy invest surpluses/resources in Wonders (or Ship Systems in Generation Ship)? Hmm... @Flavivirus , any idea? P.S: and make way for a Pain stat, a homage to the Lady of Pain. Maybe it's just like AW's Weird and helps you just like Open your Mind to the Maestrom but with a caveat: raise it too much and the Lady appears to you and flays you alive, or at least mazes you and fucks your mind so you forget everything anyway. Some things will always be a mystery it seems. lessavini fucked around with this message at 21:57 on Mar 15, 2019 |
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Mar 15, 2019 21:47
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Glazius posted:Yeah, it really needed some good usage talk. DW does in general, but Defy Danger especially. You see people defaulting to bad calls like "Fightgar attacks five goblins! Now Fightgar rolls Defy Danger three times to dodge each remaining goblin!" when Hack And Slash already wrapped up all the combat danger inside itself. Yeah, Hack And Slash already covered that he attacked the goblins without getting hurt! A better response in that scenario would be "You attacked five goblins. Now you are in the middle of a bunch of goblins, what do you do?" and if they say run away then you Defy Danger once to escape the group, or if they say I continue to slay then you Hack And Slash again, etc. Defy Danger as an all purpose defensive move outside of stuff covered by other moves is a lot more agreeable than Defy Danger as the Do Literally Anything Not Covered By Another Move move, which is what some games go with.
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Mar 16, 2019 22:30
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Does anybody have any experience with Worlds in Peril? It seems like more of a 'standard' supers game in the PbtA engine.
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Mar 17, 2019 01:47
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It’s pretty boring but I like the way you level up by doing specific things according to your archetype. I don’t like help with a four stat game you can completely avoid smash, making it a dump stat.
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Mar 18, 2019 05:02
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What Keys-like advancement (as per TSOY) there is in PbtA games? The only one I remember now is Sagas of the Icelanders, where you declaring Relationships and gain advancement when you use moves 4 times on that. I want to use this in Planescape PbtA, as I think it fits it's belief-focused motto.
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Mar 18, 2019 10:39
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lessavini posted:What Keys-like advancement (as per TSOY) there is in PbtA games? The only one I remember now is Sagas of the Icelanders, where you declaring Relationships and gain advancement when you use moves 4 times on that. It’s also used pretty directly in Cartel, with each playbook picking two starting keys from a choice of three.
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Mar 18, 2019 11:49
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Does anybody have any strong opinions on the non-base book Playbooks for Masks? Like the Reformed feels like its job is done better by the Scion, but that's all from me just looking at it and not playing it.
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Mar 19, 2019 17:45
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Reformed is real bad. Most of the moves feel like you can use them one time before it becomes your weird gimmick. All the other playbooks are amazing*. *The harbinger has some great concept but it needs better moves. It’s all stat replacement!
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Mar 19, 2019 19:54
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Golden Bee posted:Reformed is real bad. Most of the moves feel like you can use them one time before it becomes your weird gimmick. All the other playbooks are amazing*. Cool. Like piercing the mask on a villain seems useful enough and I guess clearing a condition with shoplifting is fun, but the other Moves just kinda baffled me. Buffing your Danger at the 'cost' of talking about past crimes isn't bad but it feels like you do that too much and you start to descend into parody.
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Mar 20, 2019 15:07
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Soldier is good. Harbinger is good. Brain is bad mechanically even tho I love the theme of it. Innocent is okay but mechanically kind of a doomed. Scion is pretty good. Reformed is probably the worst playbook of all "official" ones. No real opinion on nomad yet, at least their mechanics seem alright. Newborn... idk. People seem to like it but I'm personally indifferent to it.
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Mar 20, 2019 16:54
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Hey folks - I've put up playbooks and basic moves for Mysthea in our latest kickstarter update, so take a look if you're interested in how they all work.
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Mar 21, 2019 13:37
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Rhapsody of Blood Question: In the Turning of the Ages section, it mentions that everyone gets a Specialist:quote:In the decades following the castle's But Specialists aren't mentioned anywhere else in the rulebook. Is that a typo and were Specialists dropped from Rhapsody, or are you meant to pick Specialists from the core Legacy rulebook?
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Mar 21, 2019 13:37
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Nuns with Guns posted:Rhapsody of Blood Question: In the Turning of the Ages section, it mentions that everyone gets a Specialist: That’s a typo - specialists were dropped from the game as unnecessary cruft, but obviously I didn’t catch every reference (turns out skipping editing to get the book out was a bad idea, who knew). That mechanic survives as the contacts on page 61.
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Mar 21, 2019 15:02
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Flavivirus posted:That’s a typo - specialists were dropped from the game as unnecessary cruft, but obviously I didn’t catch every reference (turns out skipping editing to get the book out was a bad idea, who knew). That mechanic survives as the contacts on page 61. Okay cool, thanks! Speaking of typos, you called Rest and Relaxation move "Rest and Recreation" in The Bonded's Spiritual Fusion move.
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Mar 21, 2019 16:47
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I'm going to be doing a one shot of Sprawl with two friends who I usually play shadowrun with. Any suggestions for a fun run idea?
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Mar 25, 2019 18:10
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Looking back over the kickstarter, did Legacy 2e: End Game, and Engine of Life ever make it to print? Can't see them for sale on Modiphius with everything else.
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Mar 26, 2019 21:11
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Spiteski posted:Looking back over the kickstarter, did Legacy 2e: End Game, and Engine of Life ever make it to print? Can't see them for sale on Modiphius with everything else. They’re going to the printer next week. The PDFs are complete and in backer’s hands (fitting the kickstarter’s March ETA) and I’m hoping to get books to folks in time for the Kickstarter’s May ETA.
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Mar 26, 2019 21:51
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Flavivirus posted:They’re going to the printer next week. The PDFs are complete and in backer’s hands (fitting the kickstarter’s March ETA) and I’m hoping to get books to folks in time for the Kickstarter’s May ETA. Ah very nice! How soon after that do you reckon they'll be available for us non-backers who only found out about Legacy when it was toooooo late?
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Mar 26, 2019 21:52
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Spiteski posted:Ah very nice! How soon after that do you reckon they'll be available for us non-backers who only found out about Legacy when it was toooooo late? As soon as the books are on their way to backers, I plan on putting them up for the general public to buy!
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Mar 26, 2019 22:59
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I look forward to getting my hands on them then, cheers.
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Mar 26, 2019 23:01
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