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AceOfFlames posted:I just don't understand why anyone would want "sovereignty". I despise nationalism and don't care about my country. I left Portugal and don't want to return. And now because of assholes like these, the whole European project is in risk of collapse. I am now used to making over 3000 Euros net and would rather die than go back to below that. My degree has no application in my home country but now apparently I should have had the loving foresight when I was 15 to become a farmer and get used to living in poverty because as it turns out I was living in an anomaly that was about to come crashing down. As well as avoid forming attachments to anyone in the UK (the only people who understand my mental health problems and are remotely empathetic to them all live there). All because of loving racists. gently caress. I live in the city of Lincoln, so I hear thirdhand all the time why people want "sovereignty". A few guys I worked with were concerned that the EU is only listening to corporate interests. Their only interaction with the EU is the odd occasion where the EU parliament gets on the news for looking to bring in IP laws and/or threaten net neutrality. One teacher I know at my DnD table has concerns about the constitution of the EU council and its inherent focus on business interests. Under a Tory government it's obviously stupid to think that sovereignty would end this kind of corporate focused legislation in our country, however these stories do feed into a wider narrative where national government would have its hands tied by the union into making wholly objectionable laws. An aside I'll make at this point is that this very concern among brexit voters is part of the reason why May's "Transitional Arrangements" are totally out of the question: participating in the union's rules with no membership in its parliament is a terrible possible outcome for someone of this frame of mind. One sentiment I hear often goes something along the lines of "The EU is supposed to be a trade deal, not a constant source of political interference." I find it difficult to really get what someone who says this is on about, but my best guess is that they either want our government to directly negotiate with foreign nations or that they're trying to find somewhere to draw a line between "trade" and "political" interventions. It's hard to appeal to someone with this line of thinking as they won't accept participation in the EU parliament as a meaningful way to influence the decision making process in contrast to having all the legislative power in the land be a lot closer to home. But yes you do get "that guy" who thinks the EU is the ECHR and is just unhappy that the ECHR overruled our supreme court on (some case). Azza Bamboo fucked around with this message at 01:58 on Mar 13, 2019 |
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Mar 13, 2019 01:55
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OwlFancier posted:That seems rather more like a general problem with democratic participation than the EU. yeah to be an effective citizen requires more than just voting once in a blue moon.
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Mar 13, 2019 01:56
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OwlFancier posted:That seems rather more like a general problem with democratic participation than the EU. if this were a thing of democratic participation in general, EP elections would have comparable participation to national elections - possibly more, since the trend is usually that the more local the election, the lower the participation. and this is the one out of the seven institutions of the EU that is even elected! i can't even name them all off the top of my head, and i pay unhealthy amounts of attention to politics - thence my participation itt
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Mar 13, 2019 01:56
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JFairfax posted:lol you complain that no-one votes in the elections because they don't know what they do. There's certainly an argument for making Political Education a more important part of children's general education. Unless you've castrated the media, though, you'll be in for a pretty big fight, since Murdoch et al. consider "telling the plebs what to think" to be their job. If your point is a more general "people are lazy when it comes to politics", then you're kind of right. Something like Brexit - for all the profound implications is has for life in Britain, unless you've been paying attention pretty consistently for the last 2 years, the stuff that goes on in Westminster is borderline-incomprehensible. Especially so if you're someone who is aware that the media is full of bullshit, but doesn't have the time to sift through masses of contrary opinions to find out who the most reliable sources of information are.
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Mar 13, 2019 01:57
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I don't earn 3000 euros a month
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Mar 13, 2019 01:57
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Namtab posted:I don't earn 3000 euros a month Wire me some money to prove it
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Mar 13, 2019 01:59
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JFairfax posted:Portugal's on the up and up, it's well placed to snaffle tech jobs and things from the UK once Brexit bites imho. Yeah, the “startup boom” is because wealthy CEOs are realizing that there is a place where they can hire experienced software engineers for 1000 Euros a month. As for people being “chill”, backstabbing in the workplace is rampant (I never experienced it myself since i got my first job abroad but everyone who did mentioned that to me). Mixed with an extreme “don’t rock the boat” attitude (we didnt even kick the fash out ourselves, it was the freaking MILITARY that took down the dictatorship).
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Mar 13, 2019 02:01
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Mr.Tophat posted:Wire me some money to prove it I feel that giving you money would not have the desired effect of saying that I earn less than the guy who would rather die than earn less than over the average wage
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Mar 13, 2019 02:02
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V. Illych L. posted:if this were a thing of democratic participation in general, EP elections would have comparable participation to national elections - possibly more, since the trend is usually that the more local the election, the lower the participation. and this is the one out of the seven institutions of the EU that is even elected! i can't even name them all off the top of my head, and i pay unhealthy amounts of attention to politics - thence my participation itt I am suggesting that the things that lead to poo poo results in domestic elections are the same things that lead to poo poo results in EU elections, albeit slightly more amplified because the things that govern participation in domestic elections, which is to say the press and the government, give even less of a poo poo about EU elections. Which is to suggest that the concept of representative democracy where you elect twats to go and twat about in the twatstead for twat amount of time, and rely on the twats in the papers to tell you who to twatting vote for, is an inherently flawed load of twat. And again the very key point I am suggesting here is that getting rid of the EU doesn't make all the other people in europe go away. You have to engage with them somehow, and historically that has been done either at the end of a rifle, or through the EU. The EU may be a very poor structure for the task it is assigned, but getting rid of it does not seem like a very productive alternative.
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Mar 13, 2019 02:02
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OwlFancier posted:I am suggesting that the things that lead to poo poo results in domestic elections are the same things that lead to poo poo results in EU elections, albeit slightly more amplified because the things that govern participation in domestic elections, which is to say the press and the government, give even less of a poo poo about EU elections. i'm not disagreeing with you here; i do think that the eu is doomed for pretty deep-seated structural reasons which i'm not getting into in the middle of the night before a workday, but i'm not convinced that just blowing it up is a good idea under present circumstances, not least because there really does need to be some form of free-trade agreement in europe. ideally, it would go beyond europe as well, but unfortunately we still hate muslims and black people so avenues for expansion are limited to the US and lol gently caress that this does not change the fact that the EU is poo poo! it is, in fact, very poo poo indeed, but the UK has contrived to be somehow worse and this, combined with the general incompetence of your government, means that leaving would be disastrous. similarly, scotland would be utterly hosed if they'd actually left the UK, but the UK is also pretty poo poo again, i do not accept the assertion that the EU is why there has been no great war in europe after WW2 on face value, but i'm also not going to bother getting into that. what i'm saying is, roughly, that corbyn's referendum position of "it has serious problems but it's better to try and fix those than to crash out, 7/10 would not lisbon again" was actually Correct and a very astute take imo e. further, my point is that the EU is very far away to most people and it operates in an incredibly opaque and complicated manner. this, combined with the language barrier and domestic media disinterest, constitutes a real problem of democratic legitimacy. the basic forces that make it poo poo are what make europe poo poo, yes, i agree; and yet it is poo poo V. Illych L. fucked around with this message at 02:14 on Mar 13, 2019 |
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Mar 13, 2019 02:11
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It's poo poo but it's also kinda the glue holding any semblance of European peace and living standards together so that people can earn 3000 euros (net)
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Mar 13, 2019 02:13
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i guess my position is, to the barest essence, that everything good done by the EU could be fairly easily replaced by another form of union which was less spectacularly rigged in favour of capital
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Mar 13, 2019 02:15
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what i was getting at originally is, no matter how much you despise brexit, always remember that the eu is legitimately a plus-ungood institution, with the sovereign uk somehow contriving to be double-plus-ungood and with that, comrades, i am going to bed.
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Mar 13, 2019 02:18
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Namtab posted:It's poo poo but it's also kinda the glue holding any semblance of European peace and living standards together so that people can earn 3000 euros (net) And somehow i cannot save more than 500 Euros a month (often times less). I am trying to figure out whats wrong. (Dont post the loving dril tweet)
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Mar 13, 2019 02:20
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Unless you're an accelerationist, the fact that the EU is bad is no reason to vote for something vastly worse though. It's not going to been undone by Norway not signing up, and if there was any chance it would be undone by Brexit that's been pissed up the wall by the EU27 working together in lockstep to ensure their side handles things with confidence and precision, while the UK side is...*gestures vaguely at everything* Plus the whole point of the thing was to prevent another European war and seeing as we're not on World War 7 by now, I'd say it's been successful in by far the most important of its missions.
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Mar 13, 2019 02:21
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AceOfFlames posted:And somehow i cannot save more than 500 Euros a month (often times less). I am trying to figure out whats wrong. it's not that hard to find out what you're spending your money on lol
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Mar 13, 2019 02:21
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JFairfax posted:it's not that hard to find out what you're spending your money on lol No.
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Mar 13, 2019 02:23
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Jedit posted:No. how about, yes?
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Mar 13, 2019 02:24
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AceOfFlames posted:And somehow i cannot save more than 500 Euros a month (often times less). I am trying to figure out whats wrong. Food 200 Euros Data 150 Euros Rent 800 Euros Therapy thats pretty obviously not helping me 3,600 Euros Utility 150 Euros someone who is good at the economy please help me budget this. I am trying to figure out whats wrong
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Mar 13, 2019 02:25
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MrFlibble posted:Food 200 Euros lol
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Mar 13, 2019 02:26
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AceOfFlames posted:And somehow i cannot save more than 500 Euros a month (often times less). I am trying to figure out whats wrong. Count yourself very lucky that you earn so much and are actually in a position to have any savings.
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Mar 13, 2019 02:32
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Bahhaha haha mental illness! HAAAAAAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Mar 13, 2019 02:33
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Regarde Aduck posted:Bahhaha haha mental illness! HAAAAAAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Theres a point in therapy where if it isn't working then you find a better therapist. Such as one who might talk about an unhelpful fixation on the planet dying. I mean the planet would still be dying, but you might have a good life despite that.
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Mar 13, 2019 02:36
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Namtab posted:Count yourself very lucky that you earn so much and are actually in a position to have any savings. lol I missed this, they're saving 6k a year lol oh woe is me haha
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Mar 13, 2019 02:37
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Please don't quote me in your weird pile on.
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Mar 13, 2019 02:43
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Namtab posted:Please don't quote me in your weird pile on. I'll quote who I like and u can't stop me
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Mar 13, 2019 02:43
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JFairfax posted:lol I missed this, they're saving 6k a year lol I understand your point but this is a very weird tension. On one hand I keep reading about how you should have X stashed away in an investment account (which I have zero idea how to set up since most investment advice online is geared to the US) and if you don't you're going to be homeless when you are old but then I keep hearing about how no one has this much money saved so...everyone is going to die in the streets I guess. And yes, I realize this doesn't jive with my fears about the planet dying but even in the dark pits of the climate change thread people will usually tell you "Yeah, save money. You never know plus once the SHTF you have enough money to party until oblivion". Anyway, sorry to make this about my neuroses again. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Mar 13, 2019 02:44
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AceOfFlames posted:I understand your point but this is a very weird tension. On one hand I keep reading about how you should have X stashed away in an investment account (which I have zero idea how to set up since most investment advice online is geared to the US) and if you don't you're going to be homeless when you are old but then I keep hearing about how no one has this much money saved so...everyone is going to die in the streets I guess. how the gently caress did you get your job?
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Mar 13, 2019 02:46
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JFairfax posted:how the gently caress did you get your job? Recruiter, why?
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Mar 13, 2019 02:47
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AceOfFlames posted:Recruiter, why? LOLOLOLOL e/ sorry, so you are an idiot (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Mar 13, 2019 02:47
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AceOfFlames posted:I understand your point but this is a very weird tension. On one hand I keep reading about how you should have X stashed away in an investment account (which I have zero idea how to set up since most investment advice online is geared to the US) and if you don't you're going to be homeless when you are old but then I keep hearing about how no one has this much money saved so...everyone is going to die in the streets I guess.
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Mar 13, 2019 02:48
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Namtab posted:I feel that giving you money would not have the desired effect of saying that I earn less than the guy who would rather die than earn less than over the average wage Yeah, well it was worth a shot AceOfFlames posted:And somehow i cannot save more than 500 Euros a month (often times less). I am trying to figure out whats wrong. I am buying food in case I have to give my mother food in the case of a no deal brexit. You are still able to make savings? Then the fear that creeps upon you can be shrugged off with the knowledge that you can spend your coins. This aint a competition, but if you told me I could save £300 a month I wouldn't be worried. I'd be stockpiled in good order. Everything is relative and I want you to look a little closer at the words, 'homelessness' 'food shelter' and 'sanction'. Honestly. Have you ever contended with £50 for two weeks? Genuine question.
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Mar 13, 2019 02:48
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right you live in the netherlands? ever heard of ING? https://www.ing.nl/particulier/index.html start here. the principles of saving for your retirement are pretty universal. the big difference between the EU, including countries like portugal, and the US is that you dont have to worry about paying for your healthcare when you are old.
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Mar 13, 2019 02:49
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I used to work in recruitment AceOfFlames so I know that you can definitely be an idiot and make bank as one.
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Mar 13, 2019 02:49
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AceOfFlames posted:I understand your point but this is a very weird tension. On one hand I keep reading about how you should have X stashed away in an investment account (which I have zero idea how to set up since most investment advice online is geared to the US) and if you don't you're going to be homeless when you are old but then I keep hearing about how no one has this much money saved so...everyone is going to die in the streets I guess. You are worried about saving money while most of us are worried about saving lives. Austerity kills. You? You aint affected so harshly by austerity, so please, stop complaining about the pinprick of blood while fresh bandages are being prepared for the grand bloodletting that is no deal. gently caress.
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Mar 13, 2019 02:51
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Peace in our time
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Mar 13, 2019 02:51
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Last thing I'm gunna say because loving hell the gall of it. Next time you fret about your own poo poo being hosed because you aint saving enough AceofFlames: Do some reading on how people really struggling financially are contending. Feel the world grow unfairer and your personal circumstances enviable. Perhaps shame. Context motherfucker. People are dying out there.
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Mar 13, 2019 02:58
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Was walking by one of those big digital billboards earlier today and saw it had these two mental ads in rotation:  loving terrifying. Weird as well, since this is as solidly Remain a constituency as you're likely to find.
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Mar 13, 2019 03:10
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Just got told off on a facebook group for being 'sarcastic and unprofessional'. Someone asking for free work in exchange for 'exposure' so I posted next time I go to the supermarket, I'll ask them to give me the food for free in exchange for exposure. Time this practice was stamped out. A fair day's pay for a fair day's work.
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Mar 13, 2019 03:11
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Mr.Tophat posted:Last thing I'm gunna say because loving hell the gall of it. Do bear in mind that AOF has had severe, poorly-treated depression for years and isn't all that capable of interacting healthily with the forums, as his big ol' rap sheet attests.
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Mar 13, 2019 03:12
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