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MorgaineDax posted:https://deadline.com/2019/03/star-trek-roddenberry-doc-shout-studios-acquires-what-we-left-behind-1202574537/?r=slt-eml-bck-a2e0 Yeah, getting picked up by Shout! is nuts. YOU’RE ALL WELCOME
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Mar 13, 2019 02:52
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Q_res posted:Voyager was literally never more popular than DS9, it always got lower ratings despite being on a network and in syndication versus DS9 being syndication only. In defense of Voyager, being on a network was part of its problem. When UPN and Voyager debuted, UPN only had two nights of programming a week, and coverage of something less than 60% nationwide, and didn't have coverage in some of the top 30 markets. Even around the time of it's merger with the WB in 2006 to become CW, it only had 85% nationwide coverage. Being on a network isn't an advantage when large parts of the country can't watch the network.
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Mar 13, 2019 03:31
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Q_res posted:Voyager was literally never more popular than DS9, it always got lower ratings despite being on a network and in syndication versus DS9 being syndication only. I don't know how accurate these numbers are, but they suggest that Voyager Season 7 consistently got higher ratings (both as a share and in real terms) than DS9. http://users.telenet.be/WebTrek/Voy/Ratings/ratings7.html http://users.telenet.be/WebTrek/Ds9/Ratings/ratings.html Also a couple of years ago Netflix released the list of their Top 10 most watched Star Trek episodes, and it contains only TNG and VOY: http://www.startrek.com/article/netflixs-top-10-most-re-watched-trek-episodes quote:10. Star Trek: The Next Generation "Clues" The Netflix disparity is probably due in no small part to the fact that outside the US Voyager did much better than DS9.
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Mar 13, 2019 03:32
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Also Voyager definitely had the benefit of flashier marketing, being part of a network. I remember always seeing Janeway or Seven on magazine covers and promos all over the loving place. Which makes it even more lol that DS9 still outperformed it.
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Mar 13, 2019 03:33
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Well it's more popular now if you go by Netflix's metrics. Voyager gets a ton more watches
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Mar 13, 2019 03:59
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AlBorlantern Corps posted:Well it's more popular now if you go by Netflix's metrics. Voyager gets a ton more watches Yeah, but look what they watching. Selected high points. I'd like to know how many Netflix accounts have watched DS9 all the way through versus the other series.
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Mar 13, 2019 04:09
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I wonder if DS9 had seen an uptick now that the two most popular Trek rewatch podcasts are both on it
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Mar 13, 2019 04:11
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Those Netflix numbers are most rewatched, so it has to do with how many times a given account has watched that episode. That list doesn't mean what you think it does. As for those ratings numbers, there's a plot that's been posted repeatedly that shows the ratings of every modern Trek series (TNG-Enterprise) overlapped for when they aired at the same time and DS9 consistently beat Voyager. Epicurius posted:In defense of Voyager, being on a network was part of its problem. When UPN and Voyager debuted, UPN only had two nights of programming a week, and coverage of something less than 60% nationwide, and didn't have coverage in some of the top 30 markets. Even around the time of it's merger with the WB in 2006 to become CW, it only had 85% nationwide coverage. Being on a network isn't an advantage when large parts of the country can't watch the network. Hey remember the part where I said Voyager was on "network and syndication"? That's because in areas without a UPN affiliate it was still available on first-run syndication. How do I know this? Because I lived in one of those areas. Q_res fucked around with this message at 04:20 on Mar 13, 2019 |
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Mar 13, 2019 04:14
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I suspect Voyager would probably be substantially easier to do an HD remaster of, to be honest. Those few years make a bit difference. Plus, no big fleet actions. And the Voyager CG model and associateds were already upgraded over the life of the show to be HD-quality. Also I'm fairly sure that it's been shown that Foundation Imaging (most of Voyager) archived their stuff better than Digital Muse (who did most of DS9) MikeJF fucked around with this message at 04:38 on Mar 13, 2019 |
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Mar 13, 2019 04:30
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The biggest obstacle and expense to remastering is tracking down all the film elements and re-editing them. Special effects count for so little runtime, that I doubt the difference between voyager and DS9 "big battles" makes much of a difference.
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Mar 13, 2019 04:36
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bull3964 posted:The biggest obstacle and expense to remastering is tracking down all the film elements and re-editing them. Special effects count for so little runtime, that I doubt the difference between voyager and DS9 "big battles" makes much of a difference. Actually, Trek's film has been archived fairly well, it was relatively easy during TNG. Still a big task, but not a huge nightmare. Duplicating effects was by far the biggest challenge during that process, especially given the lengths they were going to in TNG for verisimilitude. Robert Meyer Burnett said that each episode of TNG cost about 70k, to about 13 mil for the series plus distribution costs. He reckons DS9 would cost a fair bit more. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 04:57 on Mar 13, 2019 |
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Mar 13, 2019 04:39
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On the plus side, they only need to re-do the special effects for a single giant fleet battle, and then just reuse it for all subsequent fleet battles.
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Mar 13, 2019 04:52
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Most challenging doesn't necessarily mean the most expensive and time consuming. For example, look at "What We Left Behind." Just 20 minutes of live footage with very minimal VFX is taking months and a shitton of money to accomplish. Things being well organized makes it possible at all, but you still have to pull the correct elements out of storage, ship them, scan them, edit together, do color timing and restoration/repair work. It's really labor intensive even if you know where everything is and have explicit instructions on how to re-assemble them. Redoing the battles in “Sacrifice of Angels" would be more creatively challenging as you would basically have to build from scratch, scale the detail realistically, and re-stage the whole thing, but the handful of minutes of CG battles that's already been story-boarded isn't necessarily going to break the bank with today's technology. DS9 was primarily model work until the 6th season anyways, so much the same methods of reusing the motion control sources and augmenting with CG that was used in TNG could be used here. That actually might be the more expensive route, at least when it comes to composited model shots. Leaning more on CG recreations rather than using all of the original motion control scans might actually save money. That's something they distinctly didn't want to do to TNG if they could help it because CG was only used in some very specific instances, but I'm willing to accept that tradeoff for DS9 if it made the project more realistic. There's also one hell of a massive gap between the bangup job they did on TNG compared to what we have to work with right now with the DS9 releases. I would accept less than CBS digital's absolute best if it's still a clear improvement on what we have now. Again though, the funding seems loving silly now when CBS has an exclusive platform to host this stuff. CBS all access would only need to hold on to about 2 million "months" of subs to pay a 12 mil cost for it. Basically, it would only need to grow it's subscriber base by 4% and maintain those subs for 2 years to completely pay for the remaster which seems easy enough to do if they kept the episodes coming on a steady cadence. Use the remasters to fill the gaps between the 50 star trek series they have planned to keep people on the service. This is loving chump change. Discovery's first season was about $8 mil PER episode. bull3964 fucked around with this message at 05:37 on Mar 13, 2019 |
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Mar 13, 2019 05:16
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bull3964 posted:This is loving chump change. Discovery's first season was about $8 mil PER episode. Granted, it was reported that this was mostly (if not completely?) covered by the money Netflix was paying CBS for Discovery streaming rights outside of the US and Canada. What I guess I'm saying is that Netflix could potentially finance a DS9 remaster, but according to that article linked above, DS9 doesn't even appear on their charts. Granted, those statistics were for individual episodes and not for entire seasons/series. Edit: I'm not in the US, but has CBS moved all of Trek over to All Access only, or is Netflix retaining TOS/TAS/TNG/DS9/VOY/ENT for the foreseeable future within North America?
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Mar 13, 2019 07:57
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Keep in mind CBS is utterly incompetent. They bemoaned a lack of Blu-ray sales for TNG even though they also released the HD remasters on Amazon Prime/Netflix and their target audience are tech-savvy streamers. If they hadn't put them on Netflix and the like and had sold seasons on a platform like Google Play or iTunes, I'd have bought it. (Well maybe not because you can't play videos at 1080p from Google Play on your computer because the MPAA won't let them  but that's another rant)MikeJF fucked around with this message at 09:23 on Mar 13, 2019 |
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Mar 13, 2019 09:15
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DS9 is currently on Netflix in the US. I assume the others still are too. No idea when the current contract is up but I'm assuming that it will not be renewed.
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Mar 13, 2019 09:28
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counterfeitsaint posted:DS9 is currently on Netflix in the US. I assume the others still are too. No idea when the current contract is up but I'm assuming that it will not be renewed. They’re also on Hulu IIRC
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Mar 13, 2019 09:33
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counterfeitsaint posted:DS9 is currently on Netflix in the US. I assume the others still are too. No idea when the current contract is up but I'm assuming that it will not be renewed.
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Mar 13, 2019 12:55
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I've been watching TNG on Amazon Prime.
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Mar 13, 2019 13:35
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I felt really loving stupid driving to work this morning because I realized something that everyone else probably already knew for years. Morn, the DS9 alien who is always at the bar, is Norm.
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Mar 13, 2019 14:47
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PostNouveau posted:I felt really loving stupid driving to work this morning because I realized something that everyone else probably already knew for years. I worked that out and I've never seen Cheers 
MrL_JaKiri fucked around with this message at 15:04 on Mar 13, 2019 |
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Mar 13, 2019 14:56
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The Morn-centric episode is one of my faves.
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Mar 13, 2019 15:56
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Who Norms for Norm
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Mar 13, 2019 15:59
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PostNouveau posted:I felt really loving stupid driving to work this morning because I realized something that everyone else probably already knew for years. Omg so that means Klai-vin is... Edit: holy poo poo and wait, when they introduced that stuck-up ship's counselor, Phragiir, you don't think... Brawnfire fucked around with this message at 16:33 on Mar 13, 2019 |
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Mar 13, 2019 16:31
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PostNouveau posted:I felt really loving stupid driving to work this morning because I realized something that everyone else probably already knew for years.  
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Mar 13, 2019 17:23
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Brawnfire posted:Omg so that means Klai-vin is... He was right to be stuck up. He was a captain for god's sake! 
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Mar 13, 2019 17:30
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I'd legit buy an oil painting that size of Morn.
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Mar 13, 2019 18:20
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jeeves posted:I'd legit buy an oil painting that size of Morn. I would want it to be UV reactive on black velvet, but same.
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Mar 13, 2019 18:26
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I assume anyone who likes TNG and Voyager but doesn't like DS9 is a racist.
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Mar 13, 2019 21:30
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VOY S04E20 ("Vis a Vis") is a so-so episode so far because the premise of a crew member being bored and not having heart in his work is all right, but Tom Paris is already a pilot and a Sick Bay assistant and now he's an engineer who knows things no one else on the bridge does because he tinkers with 1960s cars in the holodeck and took a supplemental course that one time. Overall, Season 4 is the best Voyager has been so far, though
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Mar 13, 2019 22:22
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FuturePastNow posted:I assume anyone who likes TNG and Voyager but doesn't like DS9 is a racist. I've noticed this trend strongly with middle-aged trek-moms and gay men. They'll have loved TNG and voyager but "could never get into ds9".
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Mar 13, 2019 22:25
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PostNouveau posted:I felt really loving stupid driving to work this morning because I realized something that everyone else probably already knew for years. This is adorable.
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Mar 13, 2019 23:08
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MikeJF posted:Keep in mind CBS is utterly incompetent. They bemoaned a lack of Blu-ray sales for TNG even though they also released the HD remasters on Amazon Prime/Netflix and their target audience are tech-savvy streamers. The HD release on Amazon/Netflix was some months after the Bluray releases, as I recall... but it still didn't help at all that TNG was still available on Amazon and Netflix while they were trying to sell the Blurays! I remember several times during the BD releases seeing my friends post something like "just started watching TNG again on Netflix!  "
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Mar 13, 2019 23:41
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Baronjutter posted:I've noticed this trend strongly with middle-aged trek-moms and gay men. They'll have loved TNG and voyager but "could never get into ds9". Well gay men love: strong female leads, hate: drab colourless stations.
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Mar 13, 2019 23:56
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FuturePastNow posted:I assume anyone who likes TNG and Voyager but doesn't like DS9 is a racist. That's not that fair. They are very different shows even if they both say Star Trek on them.
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Mar 14, 2019 00:31
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:The HD release on Amazon/Netflix was some months after the Bluray releases, as I recall... but it still didn't help at all that TNG was still available on Amazon and Netflix while they were trying to sell the Blurays! I remember several times during the BD releases seeing my friends post something like "just started watching TNG again on Netflix! I'm pretty sure the later seasons hadn't been released on BD when they started streaming the earlier seasons on Amazon Prime. *Unless you only meant the first season. There was a lag between platform releases but by the time any of the good seasons were on BD everyone already knew they could just stream it if they were patient. Cat Hatter fucked around with this message at 00:47 on Mar 14, 2019 |
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Mar 14, 2019 00:44
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Baronjutter posted:I've noticed this trend strongly with middle-aged trek-moms and gay men. They'll have loved TNG and voyager but "could never get into ds9". Eh, DS9's a lot less episodic, it is genuinely harder to get into - especially back in the 90s, when catching up was a lot harder, and some networks didn't make much of an effort to show the episodes in the correct order...
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Mar 14, 2019 03:24
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I mean, TNG and Voyager wrap up stories in one or two episodes and then rarer mention those events again. And you have your eight or so main characters hanging out in their space living room. DS9 had, what, a seven part finale and like 21 people in the opening credits and spread them across two to four different places at once? There's even bad guy main characters. Voyager had the Borg Queen standing there going  JANEWAY! every now and then, but no other Star Trek has anything like Dukat, Weyoun, the Female Changeling, and Damar.
Sash! fucked around with this message at 04:27 on Mar 14, 2019 |
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Mar 14, 2019 04:23
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As a kid in the 90's I never got as much into DS9 because of the serialization. Star Trek aired at 11pm here and I often couldn't stay up to watch it. So it would be randomly recorded episodes, often out of order.
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Mar 14, 2019 04:55
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Baronjutter posted:I've noticed this trend strongly with middle-aged trek-moms and gay men. They'll have loved TNG and voyager but "could never get into ds9". I get this feeling as well, so I'm not discounting it, but I'm a gay man and DS9 is my favorite series by a country mile  Most of the Voyager support in my generation (early 30s) comes from the fact that Voyager was "the one that was on TV" when I was at the right age to enjoy it. TNG reruns happened sporadically in my local market until they started airing them on TNN (before it became Spike), the local UPN affiliate only showed DS9 at like 2am or something ridiculous, and TOS occasionally ran on the Sci-Fi Channel. Voyager was really the only one that I had regular, weekly exposure to, and I remember watching it religiously every Wednesday evening from like season three onwards. It's sorta like how the generation who grew up with the Star Wars prequels tend to have a much more positive view of them, because that was the Star Wars they grew up with. Fakeedit: also a lot of gay men's fondness for Voyager amounts to "Janeway yaaaas queen"
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Mar 14, 2019 08:03
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