Roman/ancient history: Checkmate, Atenists

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Roman/ancient history: Checkmate, Atenists

golden bubble: Jun 3, 2011; yospos

From the whining about students thread, we can see an exceptionally poor understanding of Roman history

quote:

The new book What Can We Learn From the Fall of the Roman Empire? describes a new view of Rome's fall that sees a more prosaic, less exciting approach.

This book is an attempt to restore Rome's historical stature.

While Rome itself was at its height, its empire was in decline. The Romans could no longer carry out the task of protecting the peoples who lived across their borders, and their empire was increasingly being threatened by barbarian invasions.

This new approach sees Rome's fall in terms of four stages:

First, Rome as a military power collapsed under internal instability. By the time of the emperor Nero, the Roman army was being disbanded as legions were being lost to the barbarian invasions.

Second, internal crisis in Rome's society undermined Rome's political leaders and weakened Rome's army. The emperors Nero, Caligula, and Vitellius were no longer trusted by the people, and soon, all three were removed from office.

Third, once internal anarchy spread to the empire's politics, the military leaders that came afterwards were unable to protect Rome against the barbarian invasions of the East.

Fourth, the fall of Rome as a military power was a sign that the Roman city itself was failing as it was not built to be capable of controlling large populations. The decline of Rome as a military power meant that by the time of the death of Augustus, the Roman Empire was no longer able to control its vast borders.

For this reason, the study of the fall of Rome has become the subject of a variety of theories. The author examines two key theories.

The first is the Classical theory (known as the 'conquest' theory), which sees the collapse of the empire in its last days as a consequence of a civil war between Rome's two 'brides'.

Contemporary commentators have often confused this theory in their scholarship. The second theory is the 'persecuting' theory, which sees the decline of Rome as the work of the Roman Senate, which had become more autocratic than ever under the fall of Emperor Tiberius.

The author shows that both 'conquest' and 'persecuting' theories can be useful if one accepts that the empire's fall occurred because of two competing political processes within the empire.

The book concludes by analysing the effects these two processes had on Rome. The author argues that the rise of the Senate under Nero was an essential ingredient to Rome's recovery.

Written by the GPT-2 neural network, which was trained by Reddit.

# ? Mar 7, 2019 19:32

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# ? May 27, 2024 22:02

Jack2142: Jul 17, 2014; Shitposting in Seattle

I am very confused.

# ? Mar 7, 2019 20:47

feedmegin: Jul 30, 2008

Jack2142 posted:

I am very confused.

A computer wrote it.

# ? Mar 7, 2019 21:53

fishmech: Jul 16, 2006; by VideoGames; Salad Prong

feedmegin posted:

A computer wrote it.

You mean, a computer wrote 500,000 iterations and then some people sifted through those for the parts that fit together well.

# ? Mar 7, 2019 22:12

Cyrano4747: Sep 25, 2006; Yes, I know I'm old, get off my fucking lawn so I can yell at these clouds.

fishmech posted:

You mean, a computer wrote 500,000 iterations and then some people sifted through those for the parts that fit together well.

Nah, computers are getting pretty good at writing poo poo with proper inputs. A lot of the daily sports articles on poo poo like cnn's bleacherreport etc. are robo-written now. It can fall apart if the story is too complex, but if it's a basic "team A was down by 18 points at the half and rallied based on the performance of Player 1 and Player 2 to defeat Team B by 5" type thing it's works fine.

Here's a somewhat dated article that covers it: https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-34204052 . It's basically mad libs but inputting real data.

edit: where poo poo like the robo-written texts that made the news recently (including that history one) gets interesting is that they're now training off massive databases of poo poo like reddit, and getting outputs that aren't simple mad-libs style narratives. Generating a text from more or less whole cloth is a lot more complicated, and even if it looks wonky to an expert it's still an impressive feat.

Cyrano4747 fucked around with this message at 23:48 on Mar 7, 2019

# ? Mar 7, 2019 23:25

Tunicate: May 15, 2012

fishmech posted:

You mean, a computer wrote 500,000 iterations and then some people sifted through those for the parts that fit together well.

No, that's a one-shot full text generation.

# ? Mar 7, 2019 23:29

FreudianSlippers: Apr 12, 2010; Shooting and Fucking
are the same thing!

Robots are going to make us all obsolete just in time for the global ecological collapse.

# ? Mar 7, 2019 23:53

SlothfulCobra: Mar 27, 2011

Is there any point to a program that does that aside from regurgitating press releases or cheating on essays?

# ? Mar 8, 2019 00:20

cheetah7071: Oct 20, 2010; honk honk; College Slice

SlothfulCobra posted:

Is there any point to a program that does that aside from regurgitating press releases or cheating on essays?

A hypothetical sufficiently advanced one could write summaries of very complex issues--the kind of thing that would take a human months or years to do the proper research for. I doubt we'll see production as good as an expert within my lifetime but we could easily see something good enough to write like, a wikipedia article.

# ? Mar 8, 2019 00:27

Koramei: Nov 11, 2011; I have three regrets
The first is to be born in Joseon.

cheetah7071 posted:

I doubt we'll see production as good as an expert within my lifetime

Considering this has happened within what, the past 10-15 years? I dunno dude.

# ? Mar 8, 2019 00:56

Phobeste: Apr 9, 2006; never, like, count out Touchdown Tom, man

cheetah7071 posted:

A hypothetical sufficiently advanced one could write summaries of very complex issues--the kind of thing that would take a human months or years to do the proper research for. I doubt we'll see production as good as an expert within my lifetime but we could easily see something good enough to write like, a wikipedia article.

My god, you�ll make fishmech obsolete

# ? Mar 8, 2019 01:14

ContinuityNewTimes: Dec 30, 2010; Я выдуман напрочь

Phobeste posted:

My god, you’ll make fishmech obsolete

Not until Wikipedia has a text to speech option that does the comic book guy voice

# ? Mar 8, 2019 01:21

fishmech: Jul 16, 2006; by VideoGames; Salad Prong

SlothfulCobra posted:

Is there any point to a program that does that aside from regurgitating press releases or cheating on essays?

They're supposed to spook people out that content you read online might be fake. You know, despite the fact that there's already millions of people paid to slap up fake content all the time.

The technology behind them is useful for a lot of other tasks but if you show someone a couple carefully crafted passages it's easier to demonstrate tech in a way people grasp.

# ? Mar 8, 2019 02:46

Metis of the Chat Thread: Aug 1, 2014

As a tool they're useful theoretically for journalists to use on writing very simple, straightforward articles so that they can then dedicate more time to in-depth pieces. How that works out in practice is another matter though.

# ? Mar 8, 2019 09:56

hailthefish: Oct 24, 2010

I suspect how it will work out in reality is the vast majority of journalists will end up unemployed and every single scrap of news found on any major outlet in the developed world will be churned out by a small handful of wildly overpaid, well-connected button pushers.

I guess the natural conclusion to the automation first of production, then of service, was the automation of 'knowledge work' too.

# ? Mar 8, 2019 13:23

Alan Smithee: Jan 4, 2005; A man becomes preeminent, he's expected to have enthusiasms.

Enthusiasms, enthusiasms...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMD1Lr8RaWA

watching that ridiculous Iraq War allegory Robin Hood

I'm not familiar with ancient anti-personnel siege weapons past the Roman Scorpio, was there actually something like this in the medieval era?

# ? Mar 13, 2019 21:58

AAAAA! Real Muenster: Jul 12, 2008; My QB is also named Bort

Alan Smithee posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMD1Lr8RaWA

watching that ridiculous Iraq War allegory Robin Hood

I'm not familiar with ancient anti-personnel siege weapons past the Roman Scorpio, was there actually something like this in the medieval era?

lol I'm in the US and its blocked here.

# ? Mar 13, 2019 22:07

Grand Fromage: Jan 30, 2006; L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?

I'm sure you guys have seen it by now but the forums are in some poo poo due to America being terrible and Lowtax's spine exploding. If you've enjoyed this thread over the years and want to ensure the place stays alive and we can keep talkin' 'bout ancient dick graffiti, consider being cool like me and kicking in five bucks a month to fund our dumb gay (not dead the traffic is going up and making it even more expensive to run) forums: https://www.patreon.com/GamingGarbage

# ? Mar 13, 2019 22:08

skasion: Feb 13, 2012; Why don't you perform zazen, facing a wall?

Clip doesn�t work for me and I didn�t watch the movie so I don�t know what you�re talking about specifically, but there were totally antipersonnel artillery in medieval Europe. �Springald� is the more common term for a fuckoff huge torsion bow in specifically medieval context.

# ? Mar 13, 2019 22:10

Alan Smithee: Jan 4, 2005; A man becomes preeminent, he's expected to have enthusiasms.

Enthusiasms, enthusiasms...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AHbYQ1LqO0&t=54s

basically this scene

Grand Fromage posted:

I'm sure you guys have seen it by now but the forums are in some poo poo due to America being terrible and Lowtax's spine exploding. If you've enjoyed this thread over the years and want to ensure the place stays alive and we can keep talkin' 'bout ancient dick graffiti, consider being cool like me and kicking in five bucks a month to fund our dumb gay (not dead the traffic is going up and making it even more expensive to run) forums: https://www.patreon.com/GamingGarbage

yes the Somethingawful forums is truly

ANCIENT HISTORY

(tell Lowtax to go on twitch so I give him bits)

# ? Mar 13, 2019 23:08

FeculentWizardTits: Aug 31, 2001

Alan Smithee posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMD1Lr8RaWA

watching that ridiculous Iraq War allegory Robin Hood

I'm not familiar with ancient anti-personnel siege weapons past the Roman Scorpio, was there actually something like this in the medieval era?

Kinda? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repeating_crossbow

e: and also this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polybolos

FeculentWizardTits fucked around with this message at 00:38 on Mar 14, 2019

# ? Mar 14, 2019 00:36

Teriyaki Hairpiece: Dec 29, 2006; I'm nae the voice o' the darkened thistle, but th' darkened thistle cannae bear the sight o' our Bonnie Prince Bernie nae mair.

Lowtax will be driven in a cart to the meeting place, his unfashionable long hair flowing down, and there he will be judged.

# ? Mar 14, 2019 02:46

Remulak: Jun 8, 2001; I can't count to four.; Yams Fan

Grand Fromage posted:

I'm sure you guys have seen it by now but the forums are in some poo poo due to America being terrible and Lowtax's spine exploding. If you've enjoyed this thread over the years and want to ensure the place stays alive and we can keep talkin' 'bout ancient dick graffiti, consider being cool like me and kicking in five bucks a month to fund our dumb gay (not dead the traffic is going up and making it even more expensive to run) forums: https://www.patreon.com/GamingGarbage

Also, this should be in the op of that thread but I�m sure it�s STILL not; if you, like me, have Amazon Prime and have never looked at twitch, then signing up for Twitch Prime. Then pick Gaming Garbage Live as your free sub so Lowtax gets a lotta money from Amazon.

# ? Mar 14, 2019 02:58

Alan Smithee: Jan 4, 2005; A man becomes preeminent, he's expected to have enthusiasms.

Enthusiasms, enthusiasms...

Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:

Lowtax will be driven in a cart to the meeting place, his unfashionable long hair flowing down, and there he will be judged.

I feel like SA is more Carthage than Gaul

# ? Mar 14, 2019 21:00

Grand Fromage: Jan 30, 2006; L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?

Remulak posted:

Also, this should be in the op of that thread but I�m sure it�s STILL not; if you, like me, have Amazon Prime and have never looked at twitch, then signing up for Twitch Prime. Then pick Gaming Garbage Live as your free sub so Lowtax gets a lotta money from Amazon.

Thanks for posting this, I didn't know about it and now have Bezosbucks headed for Lowtax too.

# ? Mar 14, 2019 23:01

Mr Enderby: Mar 28, 2015

Alan Smithee posted:

I feel like SA is more Carthage than Gaul

Quod Malus delanda est

Edit: don't yell at me latin speakers

# ? Mar 14, 2019 23:44

FishFood: Apr 1, 2012; Now with brine shrimp!

Mr Enderby posted:

Quod Malus delanda est

Edit: don't yell at me latin speakers

still gonna yell at you and i'm pretty sure it would be delendus est

# ? Mar 15, 2019 01:12

Zopotantor: Feb 24, 2013; ...und ist er drin dann lassen wir ihn niemals wieder raus...

Remulak posted:

Also, this should be in the op of that thread but I�m sure it�s STILL not; if you, like me, have Amazon Prime and have never looked at twitch, then signing up for Twitch Prime. Then pick Gaming Garbage Live as your free sub so Lowtax gets a lotta money from Amazon.

As somebody who never used Twitch, how would I do this?

# ? Mar 15, 2019 09:25

Alan Smithee: Jan 4, 2005; A man becomes preeminent, he's expected to have enthusiasms.

Enthusiasms, enthusiasms...

Zopotantor posted:

As somebody who never used Twitch, how would I do this?

You have to link your prime and twitch

https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=202096320

Also uh...weep ladies for my cock only does men�s asses now

# ? Mar 15, 2019 11:15

Ynglaur: Oct 9, 2013; The Malta Conference, anyone?

Someone posted that link in another thread but I honestly couldn't tell if it was legit or not. Thanks for posting here GF.

# ? Mar 15, 2019 13:13

Milo and POTUS: Sep 3, 2017; I will not shut up about the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers. I talk about them all the time and work them into every conversation I have. I built a shrine in my room for the yellow one who died because sadly no one noticed because she died around 9/11. Wanna see it?

This has been posted about recently, though I doubt here: what was that cult that goaded people into killing them to circumvent the sin of suicide? I literally think they had circumvent in the name but I can't remember it

# ? Mar 15, 2019 17:58

skasion: Feb 13, 2012; Why don't you perform zazen, facing a wall?

Circumcellions

The name�s got nothing to do with that though, it�s because they went around amid the commoners.

# ? Mar 15, 2019 18:01

Milo and POTUS: Sep 3, 2017; I will not shut up about the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers. I talk about them all the time and work them into every conversation I have. I built a shrine in my room for the yellow one who died because sadly no one noticed because she died around 9/11. Wanna see it?

skasion posted:

Circumcellions

The name�s got nothing to do with that though, it�s because they went around amid the commoners.

Truly the most unforgivable crime.

# ? Mar 15, 2019 18:09

skasion: Feb 13, 2012; Why don't you perform zazen, facing a wall?

Actually I might be wrong. Catholic Encyclopedia says it comes from �circum cellas euntes�, �hang around larders� � i.e. they were beggarly and looking for handouts, rather than living like proper churchmen. All ties into how these guys were militant, or at least itinerant, Donatists � outside the proper hierarchy of the church while claiming to be purer and holier than they.

They called themselves Agonists, i.e. fighters.

skasion fucked around with this message at 18:31 on Mar 15, 2019

# ? Mar 15, 2019 18:24

Crab Dad: Dec 28, 2002; behold i have tempered and refined thee, but not as silver; as CRAB

Milo and POTUS posted:

This has been posted about recently, though I doubt here: what was that cult that goaded people into killing them to circumvent the sin of suicide? I literally think they had circumvent in the name but I can't remember it

Seems like a big hassle when you can just volunteer for a skirmishing unit.

# ? Mar 15, 2019 19:05

Tunicate: May 15, 2012

They believed it only counted if you died for a holy cause, so they frequently would go on suicide missions to free slaves

# ? Mar 15, 2019 19:39

Crab Dad: Dec 28, 2002; behold i have tempered and refined thee, but not as silver; as CRAB

Oh well that has a decent purpose so sure why not.

# ? Mar 15, 2019 19:47

Alan Smithee: Jan 4, 2005; A man becomes preeminent, he's expected to have enthusiasms.

Enthusiasms, enthusiasms...

Agonist club was cool until they believed in something

Ick

# ? Mar 15, 2019 21:32

Epicurius: Apr 10, 2010; College Slice

Tunicate posted:

They believed it only counted if you died for a holy cause, so they frequently would go on suicide missions to free slaves

I mean, they'd also disrupt legal proceedings and attack Christians they didn't think were pious enough.

# ? Mar 15, 2019 21:36

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# ? May 27, 2024 22:02

Silver2195: Apr 4, 2012

LingcodKilla posted:

Oh well that has a decent purpose so sure why not.

On the other hand...

Wikipedia posted:

On occasion, members of this group assaulted Roman legionaries or armed travelers with simple wooden clubs to provoke them into attacking and martyring them. Others interrupted courts of law and verbally provoked the judge so that he would order their immediate execution (a normal punishment at the time for contempt of court).[6] However, Catherine Nixey[7] points to rather more wanton violence on their part, describing mutilations of priests, bishops and others the circumcellions considered unholy. Many of the targets of their attacks were left in such a state as it would have made it impossible for them to retaliate and thus provide the martyrdom the circumcellions were presumably seeking. The sect survived until the fifth century in Northern Africa (Late Roman provinces of Tripolitania and Africa Byzacena).

Edit: Ninja'd.

# ? Mar 15, 2019 21:36

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