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JFairfax posted:Christians killing muslims for spurious reasons is not exactly a new thing though. the guy talked about going to Valhalla, whatever else he was he very definitely wasn't a loving Christian and nor did he claim to be catte taxxe 
Julio Cruz fucked around with this message at 17:31 on Mar 15, 2019 |
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Mar 15, 2019 17:28
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Based on replies to that tweet it seems like many of those accounts are fake. So someone has bots posting inflammatory racist poo poo, presumably to normalise racism. These days it feels like most comments on the internet are just sockpuppets screaming at each other in order to create or foster divisions in targeted communities. Like we're all just watching some weird performance play out but we're convinced its the performance thats the reality and our personal experience thats fake.
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Mar 15, 2019 17:29
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Regarde Aduck posted:Are they seriously trying for the "ok northern Ireland can stay in the EU whatever, the rest of the UK is still hosed lmao" plan? Maybe your area should get some easily corruptable bigoted creationists of your own like NI has.
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Mar 15, 2019 17:30
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caps on caps on caps posted:The whole debate is in bad faith and the intent is not to critique Islam. That's just such a lofty and absurd objective with, really, very little pay-off in the end. Yeah, the Melanie Phillipses of this world exist to provide intellectual cover and a veneer of respectability and legitimacy for outright prejudice against marginalised groups. They work (often literally) hand in hand with the tabloids screaming about MUSLIM HORDES and WHAT "THEY" ARE DOING NOW on their front pages, but they provide this calm, rational voice for why these attitudes are all justified and reasonable, so people can feel comfortable expressing them and nodding them through Which is exactly why, even now, especially now, when you see the violently racist hand acting on its prejudice, the reasonable concerns hand doubles down and talks about how "yeah yeah this is a tragedy however there are certainly legitimate concerns about the Other which tie into why this happened". And they hate the word Islamophobia because it accurately describes their prejudice as a subconscious emotional reaction instead of some high-level thinking and rational analysis And this is exactly how this always goes, I hate when people throw around the word "evil" as though it's an actual thing, like people are cartoon villains going "ehehehe I will kill all the people, how deliciously evil" and everyone acts in the full knowledge of how wrong they are. Every time a minority is demonised, or attacked, or purged, the people doing it believe they're doing the right thing. They all believe they're justified, they have good reasons for doing it, they're working in the greater good along some moral line. And they employ people like Phillips to convince everyone else of that, normalise those attitudes and make the job easier. And I wouldn't insult her intelligence by saying she's unaware of that weird how an Innocent Boy could grow up to do this, he wasn't even a Jihadi Baby! baka kaba fucked around with this message at 17:34 on Mar 15, 2019 |
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Mar 15, 2019 17:31
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Jose posted:They definitely getting a bribe if they're meeting hammond 
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Mar 15, 2019 17:38
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crispix posted:I often wonder when things like this happen if the ostensible rationale given by the perpetrator for their actions should really be taken at face value, particularly when it is an individual acting alone. I mean there definitely is a certain kind of personality that will be driven to do things just for the attention it gets them and the ensuing debate about radicalisation of whatever kind will take place despite such a person not actually having been radicalised at all, but just passing themselves off as such as a means to an end :/ He chose to play the part of murdering 49 people on the basis of their assumed religion. Even if he was only buying into the Great Replacement ironically, which we can never know, his outside actions show that he was radicalized into the alt-right, because of his radical actions against the targets of the alt-right.
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Mar 15, 2019 17:39
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https://twitter.com/webster/status/1106587185657102336?s=19
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Mar 15, 2019 17:45
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baka kaba posted:Yeah, the Melanie Phillipses of this world exist to provide intellectual cover and a veneer of respectability and legitimacy for outright prejudice against marginalised groups. They work (often literally) hand in hand with the tabloids screaming about MUSLIM HORDES and WHAT "THEY" ARE DOING NOW on their front pages, but they provide this calm, rational voice for why these attitudes are all justified and reasonable, so people can feel comfortable expressing them and nodding them through Not sure that's how it works for folks like Bannon and the deep 8channers, though. They totally want to be supervillains. Charity and empathy are not universal ideals, and we do need to sometimes talk about the efforts of 'for the lulz' internet culture to erode them. Consider the implications of the term 'moralfag' or, closer to home, the existence of sites like SomethingSensitive.
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Mar 15, 2019 17:47
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I'd trust a CotDC member making legislation for the digital age more than most.
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Mar 15, 2019 17:47
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Regarde Aduck posted:Are they seriously trying for the "ok northern Ireland can stay in the EU whatever, the rest of the UK is still hosed lmao" plan? Lol no, that's the backstop that the DUP are so utterly terrified of because it would mean there was a border in the Irish Sea.
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Mar 15, 2019 17:49
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goddamnedtwisto posted:Lol no, that's the backstop that the DUP are so utterly terrified of because it would mean there was a border in the Irish Sea. They were also loving spooked when Gove said it would necessitate direct rule.
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Mar 15, 2019 17:51
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The NI in EU plan would pave the way for the EU and Ireland to start discussing "just hypothetically" what would happen if...
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Mar 15, 2019 17:53
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Darth Walrus posted:Not sure that's how it works for folks like Bannon and the deep 8channers, though. They totally want to be supervillains. Charity and empathy are not universal ideals, and we do need to sometimes talk about the efforts of 'for the lulz' internet culture to erode them. Consider the implications of the phrase 'moralfag' or, closer to home, the existence of sites like SomethingSensitive. Yeah specifically in the context of the alt right dorks they absolutely fetishise malice. I would go so far as to suggest that it's not entirely dissimilar from the "hard choices" crowd who fetishise that some kind of suffering must happen to fix things, but specifically with people who have depression of some kind, there's a big thing where you believe that you, personally, have to suffer to achieve some end. You fetishise the suffering, and I think some people when they get into spaces with a bunch of other people, start to externalise that logic. Others have to suffer as well. It also seems a bit fascist as well, like they believe that you need to purge society, destroy the weak and degenerate parts, they absolutely believe in the importance of destruction and build a whole mythology around why you should feel good about it. Hell it applies to leftism too to a degree, hard to look at the way the world is and not want to just loving murder all the bastards responsible, and there's left wing authoritarians who would absolutely give you an ideological backing for it too. You can't have a desire for destruction, or an ideology that advocates for it, without developing a fetish for misery. Or vice versa. They all feed into each other. When you're steeped in misery for whatever reason it's an easier step to simply embrace it, than to escape it. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 17:55 on Mar 15, 2019 |
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Mar 15, 2019 17:53
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Azza Bamboo posted:The NI in EU plan would pave the way for the EU and Ireland to start discussing "just hypothetically" what would happen if... We already have an extremely detailed mechanism in place for all of that. The only thing to work out would be how much money we could get from the EU for taking on NI
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Mar 15, 2019 17:59
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Darth Walrus posted:Not sure that's how it works for folks like Bannon and the deep 8channers, though. They totally want to be supervillains. Charity and empathy are not universal ideals, and we do need to sometimes talk about the efforts of 'for the lulz' internet culture to erode them. Consider the implications of the term 'moralfag' or, closer to home, the existence of sites like SomethingSensitive. You're talking about being a villain from the perspective of leftists or "normies" or whatever though. Of course they'll attack and frustrate leftists, engage in bad faith, troll without any real convictions and so on. But those are just the methods, at the heart of it they believe they're justified on some level, even if they don't have a coherent sense of exactly what it is they believe and why. Like I mean, turns out that a lot of ironic racists actually hold racist views when you get down to it. Funny that Bannon is more what I'm talking about though, not individual idiots but the people actually pushing a movement. Do you really think Bannon doesn't believe anything he says, he's not actually a white supremacist, he's not building a network of far-right media and political institutions because he's invested in the ideology... he's just a neutral moustache-twirling villain who's bored and has decided this is the best way to sow chaos, because he gets a kick out of it? Really?
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Mar 15, 2019 18:00
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Guavanaut posted:I'd trust a CotDC member making legislation for the digital age more than most. Can't be any worse than what the Cult of the Dead Pig has done
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Mar 15, 2019 18:03
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Beefeater1980 posted:Actually I wonder if at some point we’re going to find out that seeing their political views affirmed online is affecting people’s brains like alcohol or drugs, where you get a dopamine surge but you build up a tolerance so you seek out more and more until whoops was that five bottles? I'd liken it more cult indoctrination. Far-right recruitment is heavily focused around lovebombing, cutting people off from other viewpoints and manipulating their sense of reality. Deradicalisation needs to be targeted in the same way that undoing cult brainwashing works.
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Mar 15, 2019 18:09
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Engaging with skidmarks like Rakosi is important because this thread gets a lot of traffic from lurkers. Hundreds if not more, easily. It's good for convincing and explaining to people who are new to leftism or heading the wrong way. Even for people who are solid leftists it's a good way to explore ways of shutting this bullshit down. I know that I've been exposed to counter arguments I've not heard of or thought of before in the thread. We have a lot of very clever posters. If it bothers you, or you think there's nothing you can gain from reading actual smart posters dunk on rape and genocide apologists you can scroll past. It's not exactly a Pissflaps level disruption.
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Mar 15, 2019 18:11
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I hear a lot of talk about pissflaps and I'm beginning to wonder what I have missed.
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Mar 15, 2019 18:14
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Beefeater1980 posted:Actually I wonder if at some point we’re going to find out that seeing their political views affirmed online is affecting people’s brains like alcohol or drugs, where you get a dopamine surge but you build up a tolerance so you seek out more and more until whoops was that five bottles? Not exactly the same but I do remember an article not so long ago about neuroscientists suggesting that 'anger' may be addictive. So essentially these red faced gammons who are constantly ranting are literally addicted to their own anger chemicals. Miftan posted:Engaging with skidmarks like Rakosi is important because this thread gets a lot of traffic from lurkers. Hundreds if not more, easily. It's good for convincing and explaining to people who are new to leftism or heading the wrong way. Even for people who are solid leftists it's a good way to explore ways of shutting this bullshit down. I know that I've been exposed to counter arguments I've not heard of or thought of before in the thread. We have a lot of very clever posters. If it bothers you, or you think there's nothing you can gain from reading actual smart posters dunk on rape and genocide apologists you can scroll past. It's not exactly a Pissflaps level disruption. I always said that ignoring pissflaps was a lame tactic. It allowed him to coast by as a 'troll' instead of being taken seriously as a bigot. Turned out he really is a toxic bigoted rear end in a top hat and his 'troll' persona was because he knew if he acted himself he'd get booted that much quicker. Regarde Aduck fucked around with this message at 18:17 on Mar 15, 2019 |
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Mar 15, 2019 18:14
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Jose posted:What the gently caress Well that's one way to buy friendlier coverage
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Mar 15, 2019 18:15
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Azza Bamboo posted:I hear a lot of talk about pissflaps and I'm beginning to wonder what I have missed. The longest and most tedious loving derails in existence from a transphobic racist.
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Mar 15, 2019 18:16
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Azza Bamboo posted:I hear a lot of talk about pissflaps and I'm beginning to wonder what I have missed. The dark secret of Flaps is that he was mostly just tedious and abrasive and slowed down the pace of conversation by forcing people to respond to endless bad-faith arguments. Don't PM me Flaps, I don't care.
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Mar 15, 2019 18:16
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Miftan posted:Engaging with skidmarks like Rakosi is important because this thread gets a lot of traffic from lurkers. Hundreds if not more, easily. It's good for convincing and explaining to people who are new to leftism or heading the wrong way. Even for people who are solid leftists it's a good way to explore ways of shutting this bullshit down. I know that I've been exposed to counter arguments I've not heard of or thought of before in the thread. We have a lot of very clever posters. If it bothers you, or you think there's nothing you can gain from reading actual smart posters dunk on rape and genocide apologists you can scroll past. It's not exactly a Pissflaps level disruption. On some days, maybe. On this day, and that subject, nah.
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Mar 15, 2019 18:16
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Azza Bamboo posted:I hear a lot of talk about pissflaps and I'm beginning to wonder what I have missed. It was a dark time
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Mar 15, 2019 18:16
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Failed Imagineer posted:The dark secret of Flaps is that he was mostly just tedious and abrasive and slowed down the pace of conversation by forcing people to respond to endless bad-faith arguments. Nobody was ever forced to respond to him.
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Mar 15, 2019 18:17
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Ah, I was hoping pissflaps was the subject of the conversation and not its villain's name.
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Mar 15, 2019 18:17
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Failed Imagineer posted:The dark secret of Flaps is that he was mostly just tedious and abrasive and slowed down the pace of conversation by forcing people to respond to endless bad-faith arguments. The fact that p.flaps still reads a thread that he disagrees with about almost everything to know if we're talking about him is crazy funny. I don't have PMs 
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Mar 15, 2019 18:17
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goddamnedtwisto posted:Nobody was ever forced to respond to him. True, but it sometimes felt that way. He has a knack for that at least.
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Mar 15, 2019 18:18
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goddamnedtwisto posted:Nobody was ever forced to respond to him. Nobody was forced to respond to Rakosi but hey look, he got banned. Like pissflaps should have been.
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Mar 15, 2019 18:19
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What's Rakosi done? I've been hogtied at work and missed all the day's events
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Mar 15, 2019 18:19
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Rarity posted:I'd liken it more cult indoctrination. Far-right recruitment is heavily focused around lovebombing, cutting people off from other viewpoints and manipulating their sense of reality. Deradicalisation needs to be targeted in the same way that undoing cult brainwashing works. Peter Coffin on youtube has videos about what he calls "validation gangs" (which sounds like something you'd be warned about in the 90's) but basically the idea is that online spaces encourage people to come together in order to validate each other, and this is kind of addictive, and it's the reason why you get people trending towards being things like performatively woke, so that everyone tweets nice things at them, even if they aren't necessarily right or helpful. It's also, he argues, a component in things like ethical consumption trends like veganism in the online space and in alt right adjacent stuff like incel forums and poo poo. Basically it's a sort of social activity that's a bit warped by the nature of online communication putting you in touch with lots and lots of people but on an extremely superficial level, and with everyone engaging with content asychronously. So you do something that gets you validation and then a bunch of people all tweet at you, or reply to you sequentially saying much the same thing, and it produces a really addictive sense of acclaim and, well, validation. It is pretty similar to lovebombing except it happens not necessarily intentionally but rather the way online communication, especially things like twitter and reddit and other metricized forms of communication where you get likes and poo poo, the way that intersects with human social activity. It's incentivized by the medium.
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Mar 15, 2019 18:19
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OwlFancier posted:Yeah specifically in the context of the alt right dorks they absolutely fetishise malice. I would go so far as to suggest that it's not entirely dissimilar from the "hard choices" crowd who fetishise that some kind of suffering must happen to fix things, but specifically with people who have depression of some kind, there's a big thing where you believe that you, personally, have to suffer to achieve some end. You fetishise the suffering, and I think some people when they get into spaces with a bunch of other people, start to externalise that logic. Others have to suffer as well. Here's the thing though - a lot of people who (say) decry acts of terrorism by Muslims seem to be completely fine when they happen to Muslims. They're just as bad as the people cheering on things like the Manchester bombing, they don't object to the killing of innocent people per se, they just see themselves as on different teams and they don't like when the other team gets a "win" I personally wouldn't categorise it as people who feel they need to suffer themselves - the thing about the "hard choices" tough guy crowd is they generally only expect this harsh justice to apply to other people, the other team. They sure as poo poo don't like it when it's turned back on them ("when I voted to cut benefits I didn't think they meant mine!!!") and that goes for extremists on the alt-right too. They only ever attack the left, they only ever cheer on things that hurt the left - even the "weak and degenerate" stuff, that often applies to them (by their own admission!) but they're not generally calling for their own murder and purging from society. These are not objective positions, they're on the right wing and that's what they root for, against everyone else There's definitely a conversation to be had about why people end up there, how they fall through the cracks, how such a misanthropic and dehumanising worldview ends up getting fostered, but at the end of the day they're falling into a specific community which lashes out at specific targets, however deep into the ideology they are personally
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Mar 15, 2019 18:19
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communism bitch posted:What's Rakosi done? I've been hogtied at work and missed all the day's events "Isn't "Islamophobia" a bit of an overused term?"
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Mar 15, 2019 18:20
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communism bitch posted:I've been hogtied at work and missed all the day's events Oh my Didn't know you had a new line of work
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Mar 15, 2019 18:21
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Azza Bamboo posted:Therapy requires active participation from the client and is thus only effective on the willing. no, the other CBT [e] gently caress, late
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Mar 15, 2019 18:22
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baka kaba posted:Here's the thing though - a lot of people who (say) decry acts of terrorism by Muslims seem to be completely fine when they happen to Muslims. They're just as bad as the people cheering on things like the Manchester bombing, they don't object to the killing of innocent people per se, they just see themselves as on different teams and they don't like when the other team gets a "win" I think it does come in different forms and once you get used to externalizing your desire for suffering it becomes a lot harder to deal with it being directed back at you again. And yes there are people who just start out externalizing it and never had any tolerance for it being done to them, self inflicted or otherwise, but I do think there's overlap in the young, online, alt right between the two, moreso than the more traditional right.
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Mar 15, 2019 18:22
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communism bitch posted:What's Rakosi done? I've been hogtied at work and missed all the day's events I didn't know the pegging was actually part of your work
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Mar 15, 2019 18:23
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communism bitch posted:What's Rakosi done? I've been hogtied at work and missed all the day's events
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Mar 15, 2019 18:23
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goddamnedtwisto posted:"Isn't "Islamophobia" a bit of an overused term?" Today of all days. loving twat.
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Mar 15, 2019 18:24
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